So, if the child was in care of the Ministry, and the kid was not responsible for his actions, does that make the Ministry the guardian?????

Oh how I long for the good ole days!

police investigating police again...

nothing changes!

An eleven year old gets tasered,

Everything will be justified.

Let the investigation determine the events. About the only other real options for investigating this would be CSIS or the military. Is that needed?

They brought in arms length investigators. Let that work.

Hello did any of you read the above before hitting the keyboard?

From the above, "We want to be very clear that the child was not in a group home - he was the only resident in a staffed resource developed specifically for his needs."

"Further, there were two dedicated staff for him at all times,"

To me it sounds as if this kid has some real serious issues to have all these resources dedicated to only him. Why don't you folks take him in.

I agree seamutt, the kid needs help. He likely has Mental health issues, in which he was likely physically and mentally abused to end up in care.

In our bleeding hearted society, it will be concluded that it is not the kids fault for stabbing the supervisor. However, it will also be discovered that tasering him was a reasonable option to subdue the subject.

I suppose the supervisor set down some boundaries for him, and he did not like it, so he stabbed the supervisor, not thinking of the consequences..... FASD.

As I said before on another thread, the tasering may very well be the minor issue in the end.

While there are many other issues around this incident there are two key questions that come to mind about public safety:

1. How well are neighbouring people informed of such situations in their neighbourhood?
2. How safe are neighbours from such an incident?

I notice from the above disclosure from the Ministry that we do not know whether the individual who was stabbed was one of the two responsible for his supervision. Since another house appears to have been involved, it may have been an unrelated house, thus a neighbour, or it may have been part of a group of two or more houses used for the purpose of housing and securing this youth.
-----------------------------------

As far as it not being the kids fault, that is an interesting one.

When a tiger attacks a person and maims or kills him or her, is it the tiger's fault or is it the person's fault? The tiger is only doing what was in its nature to do. The person should have known that and should have taken action to prevent being attacked. Due diligence.

This kid is under special supervision for a reason. I am sure that those who are involved with such cases know what to prepare for and how to avoid such instances. If not, due diligence was not applied.

I am sure most of us can remember the prison riots in the USA of several decades ago. They resulted in a rebuild of virtually the entire maximum security prisons since they were considered to be unsafe. The result is a safer condition for both guards and prisoners.

I could put on my safety hat and suggest that all incidents such as this one are preventable. I expect that WorkSafeBC will be dealing with this since this will at the least be a time loss claim. They will be looking to see how this could have been prevented and whether due diligence was practiced.

of course we on this site, has days to post our position on what is right and wrong. The RCMP officer probably had three seconds to shift gears to stabilize the situation.

"The RCMP officer probably had three seconds to shift gears to stabilize the situation"

What...against an eleven year old!


"This kid is under special supervision for a reason"

So your saying the people that look after him should have tasers too! My god he his ELEVEN YEARS OLD!


By the way,
how come you never hear about the cops tasering people that deserve like "gang members"!

My concern with the above story is that it states "two dedicated staff for him at all times".Now if a child has the kind of issues where he is the sole client in a residence designed for his specific needs,then did the Ministry consider a situation such as this occuring,when they set this place up.When thinking about this,I recall the video of the young women who walked to the gate from the vehicle and then got back in the car and went back up after seeing the media.If she was responsible for part of his care,even though I am sure she is qualified for this type of work,she was fairly tiny to try to diffuse a situation with this child.So it is no surprise to me that the RCMP had to intervene.Maybe a suggestion for the future would be to have some proper security on site,at all times,with situations such as these.

Unfortunately Johnypg, this is not a normal, or even near normal 11 year old kid. This kid, likely has no boundaries, and will do whatever he wants. He likely has serious mental health issues.

Sixty years ago, Doctors administer electric shock therapy for these afflicted people.

This kid will likely not be able to function in mainstream society. He will spend his entire life, in and out of the judicial system. All the Ministry wants to do is to get him to legal age, he commits the crime, and his life in the jail starts.

Sad, but the people work with in the system. Not much of a future for this kid.

So next time you decide to have a drink when your pregnant, think about FASD. Next time your kid needs to be discplined, think about the adminstration of it. Hands are not for hitting.

"Doctors administer electric shock therapy"

They don't need doctors Administering shock therapy nowadays!... Cops are doing just fine!

"a staffed resource developed specifically for his needs"

Including access to a knife. Great job they're doing over there!

@gus

"1. How well are neighbouring people informed of such situations in their neighbourhood?"

The neighbors are not informed at all. The same group opened a house in the bowl area last fall and not one of the homeowners in the area knew anything about it until they were moved in and renovating the house to accommodate a violent child. A child whom was brought home regularly by RCMP.

jonnypg you go and have a nice talk with this young man, I am sure he will listen and you can have him stay with you.

Gangbangers know the game, they are all huff and puff until the going gets tough. They can fight amongist themselves but when the police move in they know its all over as a taser will be the least of their worries.

Funny you should mention Gang Bangers not being tasered. Well the reality of it is they do get tasered far more often than anyone knows. It is just not spectacular enough for the media. The reality of the situation is we do not know a thing about the situation except for what the media has told us, which is:
1) An 11 year old was tasered
2) He was in ministry care.

So now that everyone can base their entire bashing on these two facts, I am impressed. No wonder the RCMP wont let non police investigate. The vast majority does not know how to be impartial!

As for the 11 year old boo hoo. Well really, I know a 12 year old that is the same size as my (alomost 6' and 180 lbs) so now if this kid has a knife and just stabbed someone am I going to step in and take it away? Hell no! Am I going to ask him to drop it? Yes, if he doesn't am I going to leave? Yes, but can the police really leave if this kid can go back and continue hurting the same person or other persons (an assumption here by me)? Well the reality is the cops cant leave. Now there may be another option like pepper spray, but the police version is not bear spray. And to be honest I have been sprayed and it does not actually affect me. I am one of the few. I have also seem guys outside the bar that just work though it, so really, are you going to take that chance on a person with a knife.

Taser seems like a good option to me, because if things are going south, he might have been shot. And I really would not want to be a police officer living with that.

A quick google has shown me that it takes an average of 21 feet for a police officer to react to someone who decides to charge him. Thats quite some distance. Many web sites are even saying up to 40 feet. Now think about that when you are getting nice and close to a kid with a knife who just stabbed someone.

Listen to the facts people. We dont have many in this matter, so why condemn the police immediately? I think it is because we do not have the ability or want to actually understand. It is human nature to do whats easy, not whats right.

Funny you should mention Gang Bangers not being tasered. Well the reality of it is they do get tasered far more often than anyone knows. It is just not spectacular enough for the media. The reality of the situation is we do not know a thing about the situation except for what the media has told us, which is:
1) An 11 year old was tasered
2) He was in ministry care.

So now that everyone can base their entire bashing on these two facts, I am impressed. No wonder the RCMP wont let non police investigate. The vast majority does not know how to be impartial!

As for the 11 year old boo hoo. Well really, I know a 12 year old that is the same size as my (alomost 6' and 180 lbs) so now if this kid has a knife and just stabbed someone am I going to step in and take it away? Hell no! Am I going to ask him to drop it? Yes, if he doesn't am I going to leave? Yes, but can the police really leave if this kid can go back and continue hurting the same person or other persons (an assumption here by me)? Well the reality is the cops cant leave. Now there may be another option like pepper spray, but the police version is not bear spray. And to be honest I have been sprayed and it does not actually affect me. I am one of the few. I have also seem guys outside the bar that just work though it, so really, are you going to take that chance on a person with a knife.

Taser seems like a good option to me, because if things are going south, he might have been shot. And I really would not want to be a police officer living with that.

A quick google has shown me that it takes an average of 21 feet for a police officer to react to someone who decides to charge him. Thats quite some distance. Many web sites are even saying up to 40 feet. Now think about that when you are getting nice and close to a kid with a knife who just stabbed someone.

Listen to the facts people. We dont have many in this matter, so why condemn the police immediately? I think it is because we do not have the ability or want to actually understand. It is human nature to do whats easy, not whats right.

Careful Hunter - the RCMP bashers don't like reason and sense. Of course they don't really care about facts either lol

Has anyone considered the possibility that this officer could have saved the kids life? Maybe he was about to cut his own throat and the taser stopped him? Of course that is just a scenario but no one will like it because it doesn't look bad for the police.

I think you guys are not getting PGjonny's point. All you cops shoot first then ask questions later. No matter how you slice it, the kid could be 10 feet tall and 200 pounds he's still an 11 year old kid. If you cops are so frightened of your job then you are in the wrong kind of work. I have worked with loss prevention in big box stores and have tackled armed bigger prey with just a radio on hand.
This officer should be fired and have to fight for his job back later. He's a hot shot, and this incident is just lucky that he didn't use his gun.

Should of let him cut it by the sounds of it.
So where did the knife come from? Maybe he needs three supervisors!

"loss prevention in big box stores" - so... a minimum wage security guard with an attitude. - Great, i'll be sure to call if Im ever in trouble.

"No wonder the RCMP wont let non police investigate. The vast majority does not know how to be impartial!"

I see that you do not understand that a conflict of interest can be real or perceived. In either case, it is a conflict of interest. So, the RCMP is in a conflict of interest, whether real or perceived. End of story. Argue otherwise till you are blue in the face. It won't do any good. That has become the standard in our social system.

"I have worked with loss prevention in big box stores and have tackled armed bigger prey with just a radio on hand"

It's absolutely ridiculous to expect an RCMP member to physically engage a suspect who is wielding a knife if they have another more viable option for diffusing the situation.

I think too many people on here have been watching Steven Segal movies, LOL.

11yrs old !

Hammy so you would take the kid down with a knife, amazing. I would like to watch. Boon yes 11 yrs. old with his own facilities and two guards at all times, that should tell you something. Why don't you take him in.

Knife with blood on it from a previous stabbing!

Hey these lttle factless soundbites are cool

"It's absolutely ridiculous to expect an RCMP member to physically engage a suspect who is wielding a knife if they have another more viable option for diffusing the situation."

We do not know how long they tried methods other than physical. We do not have a video.

We do have a video of the YVR incident. If that is the negotitaing skills the RCMP typically possess, then we are back to the same situation of the RCMP not having the skills to diffuse a situation without physical force.

Perhaps the RCMP were as badly informed about what they would find on this scene as they were at YVR. Were they informed? If not voluntarily informed, did they take steps to inform themselves?

There are lots of excellent objective type questions we do not have the answer to.

Based on past experience, we will likely not get the answer to many of them unless there is a full scale inquiry. The most likely scenario is that there will be one rumour after another. We have to remember, this is a minor and most of the information on this case will remain sealed. So go to it, let the rumours get ever wilder .... :-)

gus I agree that other methods should have been attempted first and perhaps they were. Like you said, we don't have all of the info. That said, if those other attempts don't work, the issue then becomes what does the member then do?

Is it reasonable to expect the RCMP officer to risk getting stabbed or slashed when they can disarm the suspect without any risk to their own personal safety? I would suggest that no, this is not a reasonable risk to take. I think the age of the suspect is a complete red herring here. If the person was 35, this wouldn't even be a news story. People hear "11 years old" and think of their son or nephew. The difference, IMHO, is that this 11 year old had already stabbed someone so there was an established history that the RCMP was about to deal with someone who had very recently been involved in a violent altercation. It's very easy to second guess, but I think we have to ensure that the officers safety is made a priority.

11 years old or not, one should not underestimate the damage that can be caused by someone with a bladed weapon. 11 is plenty old enough to have the coordination and strength to swing and stab a knife for a few seconds and that's all it would take to kill a man. The risk or harm associated with the taser use is probably more acceptable than the risk associated with trying to disarm the kid physically. It sounds shocking, but it's likely the truth.

Hammy has no idea how quickly a person with a knife can advance on a person before they can react to protect themselves. The naysayers should try it: Get about 15 feet away from a buddy. Make sure your friend has his arms down by his sides "reasoning" with you, and make sure you do not have anything in your hands. Stick a toy gun or whatever in your pocket securely. Then all of a sudden have your buddy rush at you raising his arm as if to stab you, or even better just have him bring his arm up pointing towards you. Unless you are quick draw mcgraw you will not have enough time to stop from being stabbed or cut. If its a knife and you instinctively raise your arm to block, your tendons will be cut, rendering your hand useless, while you try to fumble for your sidearm....or pepper..while at the same time taking stabs from the knife.
Then your on the ground stabbed and wounded and this troubled 11 yr old has now decided to take your gun and use it on you.

I get a kick out of all the people screaming how an 11 yr old should never be tazered....jumping on the bandwagon...now the politicians "Booney" just before the election...haha...now since it was a first nations kid, the natives are howling blue murder.... Fine. Let them take the kid.

I am familiar with this facility and the reasons why this youth was there with two round the clock caregivers.

If the member who had to deal with the youth was indeed faced with the boy out of control and bransishing a weapon and the distance between him and the boy was not safe then the member's deployment of the tazer was textbook correct and in accordance with the IMIM use of force.

People: Go to youtube...look up knife attacks...defences....the IMIM...educate yourself.

Obviously some of you people live on a different planet.
I wouldn't be worried about group homes in neighbourhoods. I've lived in two houses now with group homes close by and you couldn't tell they were around.
I've known some sick and twisted people who lived in decent neighbourhoods and they didn't have criminal records for all the evil deeds they had committed. I guess if you have money and reputation, people think twice about bringing these cases to justice.
Would make these group home kids look like tame pussy cats
Don't judge a book by its cover. Don't assume the professional living next door is an up and standing citizen of society. You may be sadly mistaken.

"We want to be very clear that the child was not in a group home - he was the only resident in a staffed resource developed specifically for his needs. This is a very different thing."

"Further, there were two dedicated staff for him at all times," the official continues. "Because of privacy rights, we cannot disclose why this child was in this staffed residential resource."

The child remains in ministry care and "staff are ensuring he receives a high level of support."


OK is it just me? I didn't know these staffed residential resources even existed.
Does anyone know how many of these are in our Province and how much it's costing us?

If I read this right and please correct me if I am wrong.
Two staff on 24 hours a day so that means 8 people employed for one person. Most government employees would get between 3-5 weeks vacation so that means another person for vacation coverage and sick time at a minimum.
So lets say these employees are paid mid BC Public Service salary scale 16 which is 50.454.10 + 23% for benefits. Lets do some math.

$50,454.10 + 23% = $62,058.54 x 9 = $558,526.86 per year just for staff.
http://www.employment.gov.bc.ca/employee_benefits_and_programs

I can't even begin to guess how much it costs for a private residential resource developed specifically for someone's needs.

What's my point, I don't really have one, other then I can see why I'm taxed to death.

And how did they handle this situation before "tasers" where invented!!

Do we want to increase the power of the cops? They use excess force with an 11 year old and wonder why the respect for them is being lost.

Everyone keeps going on and on about this being an "11 year old kid". Why is everyone assuming it is a tiny little kid? When I go to the schools these days, and 11 year old kid can be bigger than my husband and a heck of a lot heavier. Obviously the officer felt he could not restrain the kid safely any other way. If it was a little tiny adult would it be any different or if it were a great big man? It would be nice to see some more support for one of our RCMP officers.

Before tasers they just shot you!

P.S. don't get out of your car if your pulled over in the US.

See Imorge That is just the exact thing I was saying about jumping the gun! P.S. I have been attacked by Crackheads with a bloody needle, screaming at the top of their lungs. Now all of you know he's not a maniac. ASSUMPTIONS shot first!

I think people need to think about it, who cares if he was 11, he stabbed someone, and if he was strong enough to do that. The kid deserved to be tazered for stabbing someone. I work with at risk youth and there are some big strong 11 year olds. If you are big enough to stab someone, you are big enough to be tazered.

What's better? A few punches to the head and a knee in the back on a small kid or a taser? Both seem fine to me... didn't the little punk stab somebody?

As for the police investigating police; as of now there is nobody else to do it. Most police officers are good people and put up with WAY more than they should.