I haven't seen a thing yet where we were promised by any form of government that in the long run whatever great scheme will save us money. Everything goes up but wages to compensate.

Can I go on holidays....somewhere with really expensive hotels and meals like Turino was during the olympics.
Take a group of my pals along.
And send the bill to city hall?
Seems fair since my tax dollars paid for the mayor and his pals to go on a holiday.
And with all the money saved on garbage collection, and now a rate increase....it should be easy for them to fund my holiday, right!

I PHONED CITY HALL TODAY. I HAVE THE LARGE BIN AND SINCE IT IS NEVER FULL,COULD I EXCHANGE MY BIN TO THE MIDDLE SIZE AND SAVE MYSELF SOME MONEY.NO PROBLEM-THEY WOULD EXCHANGE MY BIN FOR A $20.OO HANDLING FEE.
IT LOOKS LIKE THIS WILL BE A CASH COW FOR CITY HALL.INCLUDING THIS YEAR, THERE WILL BE A INCREASE EVERY YEAR FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. MY THINKS THAT THEY ARE BUILDING A TRAVEL FUND FOR 2010

acrider54. Look at the Citys Website for Automated Garbage Collection. Frequently Asked Questions.

**A financial review of the automated operation indicates expected savings of approximately $1.75 Million over the next ten years when compared to the manual operation over the next 10 years.

**No mention of increased costs to either system**

We had a very mild winter and you can rest assured that we have not heard the end to the increased costs of the system. My speculation is that we will probably have to buy one more new truck and hire a few more people which will increase the costs significantly.

You will be facing an increase in your garbage rates for the next 10 years.

This is Classic City Hall smoke and mirrors.

Smoke and mirrors, for sure!

Another interesting subject is the continuous bleating by City Hall about PG residential water consumption. It is, according to the Mayor, the highest per capita usage anywhere in the country.

But, of course, we will not be told how the City arrived at that conclusion. Yet, there are continuous threats about raising rates, putting in meters and punishing those without meters.

Nobody will come clean with facts, such as:

Daily consumption totals for every day of the year, flow chart recordings that recorded flows to each areas water pipes and so forth.

What do the flow meters indicate at midnight, when virtually everyone has shut off their sprinklers, showers and dish washers?

If the flow indication is still way up on the chart it indicates that the City's water mains are riddled with leaks and that a lot of the pumped water never reaches the consumer.

It is an acknowledged fact in every Canadian city and cities around the world that underground water mains have a certain amount of leakage.

I for one need to see evidence that a) there are no large leaks or a great number of small ones b) the recorded and certified amounts of actual water pumped on a daily/hourly/monthly basis over several years before I believe any numbers that the Mayor gives to the media, such as 800 litres per day.

How is the water supply metered and properly as far as residential and commercial customers are concerned?

Now, for the garbage collection system I need to see evidence as to how it went from a predicted annual savings into the red in the blink of an eye.

What are the real numbers??? No smoke and mirrors, please and no sidelining of any garbage collection fees for other projects, either.

By the way: The water supply to the Hart has been polluted for decades with heavy concentrations of manganese, as proven by a water sample collected here and sent to a laboratory by the City.

Nobody wants to admit what a safe limit is for manganese, but I have been distilling all my drinking water for the last 15 years or more, to be on the safe side.

Can I get a refund from the City for the additional 10 bucks a month it has cost in electricity?

I can always try, but I know that I will be stonewalled all the way trying.

Diplomat. Our Mayor spends most of his time trying to figure out how he can get Federal and Provincial Grants which he can then match with City and Regional District money and then build a project and give contracts to various and sundry people in the City. A case in point.

In order to get a grant from the Feds he has come up with the idea of burning **Hog Fuel** to heat water, to heat Government Buildings and some private buildings in the Downtown Area. Cost 9 Million dollars.

There is money available for projects that utilize wood waste, or have a **Green** conotation.

No person in their right mind would tear up all the streets, and install water piping to heat buildings using their own money, however using taxpayers money is a different story.

I think you will find that once the Mayor came to realize that you can increase the capacity of a co_generation unit by 30% or more by producing electricity he might drop the water heating plan, and try to convince us we should build a co-generation unit, to produce electricity. If he does you can rest assured that any money they get for the electricity from Hydro will not be used to reduce our electricity rates, nor will it be used to reduce the cost of heating Government Buildings. It will go into General Revenue and disapear.

Case in point. Do not repair the Camerson St. Bridge. Get Federal and Provincial Money if possible, throw in some 5 Million from the City and **Walla** you can let a contract to build a new 22 Million Dollar Bridge. Or failing that, you can build a steel superstructure with City Money for 7/8 Million. If these options fail then you can always repair the Old Bridge.

Now the Water Situation. There is money available from the different levels of Government for Citys that are trying to conserve water, hence the Mayors efforts to get us to Monitor Water. If he can convince us we should go to a metering system, he can get grant money and **Walla** contracts to establish meters in every house.

When these hot shots do studies to show the amount of water being used they never give you all the information. They if possible only give out the information that supports their case. **Note the fiasco for the Garbage Program** it went from a savings to a loss in less than a year. (No one is responsible)
Although the pulp mills on Pulp Mill road are not on the Citys water system it is interesting to note that they process approx 10 Million Gallons of water a day through the 2 mills and then back into the river. Could something be done in this area to conserve water. Not likely. I suspect that 90% of the water used in households is treated and returned to the River, and therefore the actual usage of water in the area is minimal. The cost is in getting the water into and out of the homes.

Being located at the juncture of 2 Major Rivers, and with the City located on the old river beds, this City will never experience a water shortage.

Once again **Smoke and Mirrors**

Its all about spending taxpayers money. If they didnt spend it they would have to give it back to us.

I agree with most of the points you are making. Whenever any official throws around EVEN numbers like 800 litres/day/person I practically know for sure that it is only a guess and that no real consumption numbers have ever been compiled at all. Since we do not have water meters all kinds of numbers can be invented and it is totally unknown how much of the pumped water actually REACHES the residences and how much gets lost in the ground.

A CBC News story a few years ago showed Montreal digging up long stretches of boulevards to repair corroded water mains and it was stated that many millions more are needed to address the problem of as much as 40% of the pumped city water disappearing in the ground because of old deteriorated water mains.

Some of the new houses built in PG in the last couple of years have water meters, but we are being kept in the dark as to how much the average usage of these houses is on a daily basis, lets say in December versus July.

It is not fair to simply keep accusing people of wastefully "irrigating" their lawns when in fact (in this neighbourhood)it is a rare occasion when one can actually see someone watering their lawn!

Perhaps the Mayor is saving the announcement of a new Cameron Street bridge for his next run in the municipal election? Enough uninformed people will be swayed to vote a certain way all the while forgetting that there were other options that would have saved us a pile of money and restored the traffic flow as it was before the bridge was suddenly barricaded off.

It is bizarre to urge people to keep their lawns well kept and their properties in bloom while at the same time labelling them as the worst wasters of waters in the entire province!

If we are being kept in the dark about what the real facts are we are bound to be skeptical and loathe to believe anything that emanates from City Hall.

I trust all the previous posters, after griping on numerous subjects, will now stand up and "take a bow" before hiding under the bed for their contribution, which tends to make me believe we have once again been subjected to "smoke and mirrors."Only difference-just came from the other side.
Not even worth honorable mention.

A cheap shot by "trusted" who assumes that none of my complaints were taken up with City Hall.

You are wrong.

Regardless, Opinion250 is for expressing opinions whether you consider them smoke and mirrors or not.

Perhaps you would enjoy zero postings, but the website wouldn't be very popular, I'll bet.

Trusted. My feelings and positions on the various subjects have been discussed verbally, and in writing to all levels of Governments and in face to face confrontations. So I am not overly interested in your assessment of my griping.

The one thing I am sure of is that if I was ever to hide under a bed, the only way I could do it would be to shove you aside so that there would be room for me.

This is the only area that people can express their opinions (right or wrong) on a timely basis, without having them edited, or ignored, or restricted to one letter every 3 weeks at the discretion of the editor.

I think its great.

I trust other posters are experiencing a good bout of laughter at the thought of you and I under a bed together, Pal. I fear you would be more than likely to find others and not myself under a bed. Might not even be room for you.
Unfortunately I never hear of anyone taking up a cause with city hall,. Therefore I assume the complainers who go on this site get a smile and "delete."
If simply "sounding off" is the objective, then this site certainly serves the purpose.
I am from the old school and firmly believe "actions speak louder than words." To date-action has been sadly lacking.
Lots of words-no action-that seems to be the order of the day!!
If I have offended anyone-no apology extended. I do not think this site has made one iota of difference re any actions taken by city hall.
Oh well, I suppose it beats paying a therapist to get rid of all that pent up anger!!!!
Fortunately I am one of the people who posts, but don't bother getting upset over the issues I know will not be resolved to public satisfaction.. Why bother getting angry-such a waste of energy!!!!
I would hardly have called my previous posting a "cheap shot."
As the old saying goes, "The truth will out."
From "hog fuel" to "hog wash."
Entertainment personified!!!

Palopu, I agree with your last post. It's great to have a website like this one. Even those who identify it as "hog wash" seem to be addicted to it to the point that they keep coming back to it to "wallow" in it!!!

Actions speak louder than words, indeed!

I trust I have been known to "wallow" with the best-but I managed to have escaped the pig pen by not becoming as caught up in the muck and mire as others do.
Of course it is a great site to unload your frustrations, but that is all that is accomplished.
I come on the site because some of the postings are informative-but not with the belief the ones directed at city hall will have any effect on the rocket scientists making the decisions there.
The garbage issue amused me. Of course when homes became occupied,and the population increases, the garbage to be picked up increased, which obviously would mean additional manpower and time. How could the costs be reduced???
Some issues do not make sense-and the complaints border the ridiculous.
The public pays for what they get, and I hope they get what they pay for!!!!
As for the trucks and the containers--the people governing city hall are aware that "good things aren't cheap-and cheap things aren't good."
And yes-I expect water meters are on the way. You will pay for the water-AND the cost of the meter. Some increased costs have to be camouflaged. This city is not operating on a basement budget-so pay up-or as the saying goes, "pull out."
Getting harder to distinguish the "hog wash" from the "swill."
Hey, don't eat that Elmer-that's _________???????

Trusted. Firstly it was the City who told us that the New Garbage system would be cheaper, more efficient, reduce injurys, and save us money. IE; $1.75 Million savings over 10 years versus the old system. As usual when the cows come home we see in actual fact that the savings did not materilize and in fact the new system is going to be more expensive than the old. Had they told us that in the first place, then of course people would have suggested that they stay with the old system. So to me its obvious that they gave us skewed numbers to support their desire to go to a new system.

As for the water, its time people in this town got it straight. We have already built the most expensive water system for a City this size anywhere in Canada. It was built to its present specifications on the recommendations of the present and past City Mayors and Councillors. It serves us well and we can always add more to the system and pay for it if we chose. There is no shortage of water in this area, and therefore the only reason to go to a metering system would be to get more tax money out of people, who as I said have already paid for the present system.

Its time for some of these politicians to take a **Time out** and quit finding ways to spend our tax dollars, and maybe even give us some back.

**Its also time for some people not unlike yourself to quit making excuses for this City Council, and Mayor.** When elected we expected to get some **Bang for our Buck** however all we are getting is more daft ways to spend our money.

I understand that our travelling Mayor is on his way to Montreal for a meeting. Does anyone know what the meeting is about?? I understand that their is a Policy Conference called Canada 2020 being staged at Mont-Tremblant Que. on Wed, and Thursday. Former US VP Al Gore, Justin Trudeau, and 148 other Liberals will be in attendence. Invites went out to everyone they could think of in North America. Is it possible this is the meeting he is attending.??? Who Knows. If it is I am willing to bet he is one of very few, if not the only Mayor in Canada to Attend. Much like the World Winter Cities Mayors Conference in China earlier this year when the only Mayors in attendence from North America, were the Mayor of Anchorage, and of course the Mayor of Prince George. He managed to get this trip in aND also attended the Winter Games in Turin, and I think he was able to get in a Hockey game in Ottawa. Anyway I digress.

As for this Citys budget, it is one of the biggest for a City of this size in Canada, and to make it worse we are also further in debt that any City of the size in Canada, so I say to you **Trusted**

We have already paid up, and if you would take enough time out of your busy day to look a little further into whats going on around you, you would know that.

Whats needs to be **Pulled Out** is your head, as if beleive it is buried in the sand.

I trust you will now understand why I do not stay away from this site.
This information intrigues me-but I believe I already said that.
BUT-what will be the outcome???
NOTHING!!!!!
They will continue to do exactly as they please, and so will the Mayor. After all, would you not like to see the world on somebody elses buck???
I think he lets his conscience be his guide-and boy, is he lost.
BUT-he keeps getting voted back in?????? Why????
People can object-and have a further lesson in futility. This city places their residents on "IGNORE."
There is never any action-just a lot of mouthing off and complaining.
And my head is not in the sand-I do not even like the beach!!!!
Got enough sharks after me right here.
Love that hot water!!!!!

As a matter of interest Big Business, and Politicians usually have someone scanning newspapers, and watching the media, so that they can be made aware and be on top of what people are saying. For Big Business is it good PR., for Politicians it could be Political survival, so if anyone beleives that the Mayor and Council are not aware of whats being said in this forum or the local papers you are kidding yourself.

By expressing your opinions on different issues, and pointing out where you feel things are going wrong, you are making a small, but nonetheless important contribution. The more people who are aware of what is happening in the City the better.

I agree we are on IGNORE, however we also make it harder for them to ignore us.

It seems in this day and age most of the ***News*** is fed to the Papers by Big Business, or Politicians, and both of them use it for P.R. Purposes, as a result we see less and less of what used to be called **Investigative Reporting**

A case in point:

Article in the local paper to-day headlines that the CN is adding engines for the Rupert Terminal. The information for this article was taken from a CN News Release in Montreal June 14th. The article indicates that the 50 engines are to move traffic from the Port of Princ Rupert, however this is only partially true. The article also states that the new diesels will handle traffic in Western Canada including Prince Rupert.

Phase one of the Prince Rupert Container Terminal when completed will be able to handle 500,000 containers (So says the local article) The CN article states that phase one will be able to handle 500,000 20ft equivelant containers. Which means in effect 250,000 40ft ft containers. You can load 4 20ft containers on a container flat car and container trains are 100 or more cars in length, so when you do the math you come up with 3 100 Car Trains per day coming from Prince Rupert, and 3 100 Car Trains per day going to Prince Rupert.

***Now this amount of trains will just replace the Coal Trains that used to come through Prince George to Prince Rupert from Tumbler Ridge (Approx 3 per day in each direction at the peak shipping period.)

Question: Where are the diesels that they used up to 3 years ago to haul the Coal Trains. Were they Mothballed, or are they being used in other areas. In my opinion the 50 New Diesels being purchased are nothing more than normal purchases by CN Rail to keep the Railway Running. The reference to Prince Rupert is the PR part because of the bad publicity CN has had with the purchase of BC Rail.

The loss of the coal trains and the addition of the Container trains means that we will maintain the status quo for trains through Prince George, however this can hardly be construed as a big increase in business for Prince George.

The CN Article also stated that the Containers from Prince Rupert would travel over CN's North American network to Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, and Memphis Tenn. This information however was not mentioned in the local article.

Question: Would the people of Prince George not be interested in knowing that the Containers from Prince Rupert will blow through this town faster than a speeding bullet, leaving nothing here but the wail of a distant train whistle. Is this not news???

Some empty containers will probably stop in Prince George for loading lumber, or pulp and paper on the return trip, but that is a story for a different day.

My Point???

The article served 3 purposes.
1. CN Rail Public Relations

2. Port of Prince Rupert Public Relations.

3. Apparently a news story for the local paper

Question; Was it really news, or a News Release from CN published as News. You tell me.

Very informative stuff, alright!

Your feeling that we are being parked by City Hall, the Mayor and Council in the "Ignore" portion of the parking lot is shared by most of the people I know.

Mr. Skakun is the exception, so far.

But it takes more than one level-headed individual to make an impact on the stale and worn-out attitudes displayed by the majority.

The system, as is, has reduced the taxpayers' importance in their minds to that of a wide eyed bovine that allows itself to be milked at random without objecting more than the occasional swish of the tail.

I trust you will agree with me the majority of the voters appear to be replicas of "wide eyed bovines?"
I trust there is a possibility their tails have met the chopping block, and they are incapable of an occasional "swish."
Milking a lot of "bull" presents another problem. What is that expression used-rather crude-but fitting, "don't pull my pee pee."
I was hoping for an "out with the old-in with the new" result at the last civic election.
It is the taxpayers who cast the ballots?
Has all this milking dried up their brains??? And no tail!!! Cannot even get rid of the flies?
Just asking!!!
No offense!!