What a bunch of hog wash. Nobody is calling for negotiations with terrorists. Facilitation with the elected political leaders of Lebanon should not be ruled out if we are to have an understanding of the issues for a real peace.

The problem here is that Jay Hill's conservatives are supporting war crimes under false logic and trying to cover for this by saying they do not negotiate with terrorists and that a 'measured response' endorsement is actually a strong calling for restraint after the fact. Pure bull politics from Jay. Period.

At least if Jay is going to take a position he should take an informed position. If he can't even get his interpretation of the Hezbollah founding charter right than how can we trust any of the rest of his assessment.

Jay says, "The founding charter of Hezbollah calls for the genocide of the Jewish people and the annihilation of Israel."

It says no such thing and you can read it for yourself with the Jerusalem Quarterly translation of the Hezbollah charter at the following web address I found on Google.

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/Hiz_letter.htm

Clearly the word Jew is not mentioned once in the Hezbollah charter. The charter goes to great lengths to characterize their fight as with the politics of zionism calling this political movement a greater threat to their children than communism, or capitalism. They clearly distinguish between the Jewish people and the politics of zionism with the politics of zionism associated with ethnocentric land occupation and aggression. They wish to rid the region of the zionist political movement and not the Jewish people of Israel as per say.

Jay says he does not negotiate with terrorists, but what about the zionist terrorists that created the state of Israel through terrorism of the Palestinians who lived where the state of Israel is today.

The Stern Gang created Israel through terrorism of their British colonial masters. They were fanatical terrorists that killed thousands of Muslims in their ethnic cleansing campaigns in what would become Israel. During 1941 when London was being bombed by the Axis, and Canada was at war with the Axis, the likes of the Stern Gang (the future leaders of Israel) were plotting with the Axis on terrorism against the Allied cause. These people carried out some of the most blood thirsty crimes of the 21st century in the name of Zionism including the bombing of the historic King David Hotel in Jerusalem on July 2nd 1946 killing 91 British people putting the run on the British who fear political assassinations of royalty.

http://www.rense.com/general21/pastzionist.htm
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch26.htm
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9069635

By Jays definition without accounting for state sponsored terrorism Canada can not have political contact with the zionist political leaders in Israel. Why the double standard I wonder.

Clearly hezbollah is a resistance movement created as a result of Israeli occupation of Lebanon and ethnic cleansing policies for the creation of an ethnocentric apartheid state. Their cause is a just cause for their people in that they are fighting for liberty of their people and an elected and representative government of all people in Lebanon including those who do not share their religious beliefs. This is a just cause for a people who do not have a peace treaty with Israel (illegal until Palestinian question is settled), have a current boarder dispute over the occupied farms area of Lebanon, and have legitimate grievances for political prisoners held by Israel under the age of 15.

The current fight did not start because two Israeli soldiers were captured by hezbollah in a boarder dispute. The war was well planned in advance and given the green light by Bush way back in May long before the two Israeli soldiers were captured. It was originally planned Israel would drag Syria into the war, and thus Iran, and therefore giving Bush the pretext to attack Iran. Lebanon was a pawn in the whole game, and hezbollah fell for the trap in thinking they could trade for the release of their juvenile prisoners of war.

It should be noted that the notorious terrorism acts of hezbollah took place under their former leader Sheikh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, and not the current leader Nazrellah who has focused on military targets with what means they have and has facilitated Lebanon’s rise to democracy. In this latest conflict hezbollah killed more than 3 Israeli soldiers for every Israeli civilian, and Israel with far superior weaponry with precision guided munitions killed 20 Lebanese civilians for ever Hezbollah fighters. Lopsided by any account and not even factoring in the fact Europeans will not send troops because Israel is the one continually violating the ceasefire.

The current conservative policy is to back the Israeli state terrorism on the Lebanon civilian population including the use of cluster bombs mining all the villages of south Lebanon in an indiscriminate and disproportionate attack on civilian populations. They back these international war crimes to further the Bush neo-con foreign policy agenda of fabricating a war with Iran rather than having to get permission for this war from the UN Security Council, which would be blocked by China and Russia, therefore a coalition of the willing. It is the policy of weak leaders who govern by deception, rather than the integrity of the truth that comes with the moral high ground worthy of leading free nations. The conservative policy is the policy that lost the Iraq war and goes against everything Canadian that has been the guarantee of Canadian security in the past.

Canada needs a new Mid East policy otherwise we are part of the problem and in effect are belligerents in the coming WW3, which will likely go nuclear.

The problem is Israeli apartheid policies that do not recognize citizenship rights and steal land based on ethnicity.

If we back this immoral act we are part of the problem. Canada should take the moral high ground and set a standard for human rights. This may take a new government, and my prediction is the bloc sees it that way as well and will use the softwood lumber agreement to express this feeling.

how short our memories are... and how quotes get twisted and shaped to fit our ideologies.

The Jewish "freedom fighters" were considered when Britian occupied Palestine.

The IRA were considered terrorists when trying to break free from the stronghold of Britian.

Hezbollah is a result of Isreal occupying Lebanon.

I hope I'm not the only one that sees the pattern here.
When you are being occupied, you tend not to befriend the occupier.

how short our memories are... and how quotes get twisted and shaped to fit our ideologies.

The Jewish "freedom fighters" were considered terrorists when Britian occupied Palestine.

The IRA were considered terrorists when trying to break free from the stronghold of Britian.

Hezbollah is a result of Isreal occupying Lebanon.

I hope I'm not the only one that sees the pattern here.
When you are being occupied, you tend not to befriend the occupier.

Amnesty International says Israel is guilty of war crimes against humanity.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/08/23/amnesty-israel060823.html

Jay Hill is on the wrong side of this important debate.

Jay Hill is on the RIGHT side of the debate, meaning Harper's side.

I do not believe that he is allowed to express his own opinion, if indeed he has developed one.

Sad state of affairs, unfortunately.

REMEMBER YOU FOOLS, THE HEZBOLLAH DID NOT HIT ONE MILITARY TARGET IN ISRAEL...JUST CIVILIANS...THEY ARE A TERRIOST KILLING MACHINE. I HOPE OUR SECRET SERICE READS THESE TRAITOREST COMMENTS FROM YOU UNIFORMED FOOLS AND ISSUES ARRESTS WARRENTS.

Do not get me wrong your allowed you opinions!!!But when you support a TERRORIST ORGANSITION...USE YOUR REAL NAMES ..DO NOT HID LIKE THE CROSS EYED INTERBRED HEZBOLLAH COWARDS.

A very touchy and controversial topic in a "christian" country. It is good to see that Don has the capability to get right to the heart of it.

;-)

I side with theBear's statement .... "When you are being occupied, you tend not to befriend the occupier".

When reading the hisory of events, I find it is alwys good to try to read the versions from different perspectives.

Here is one from a Jewish persepctive: http://www.jewishmag.com/9mag/IRGUN/irgun.htm

As an example: "The Irgun in a sensational attack blew up the wing of the King David hotel in Jerusalem, in May 1946, which housed the British Palestine Command. Warnings went unheeded and many lives were lost. The British were furious and carried out mass arrests. The Hagganah, ceased it's actions when it's leaders were arrested in August 1946, but the Irgun continued fighting. The British increased their troops to one hundred thousand men. The ferocity of the British reprisals increased including public floggings, deportations, arrests and hangings."

Notice the reported presence of an Army if 100,000 British. The look at how few there are in Iraq today. And the British lost! And a few terrorists won!! Is there just one more lesson from history here? As theBear says, occupiers do not fare well.

Wikipedia is always an interesting source as well in such cases. It is an interesting use of the internet's reach into millions of homes and opinions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

Don focus on the article. And unfortunately... it is you that is uninformed. Taking the approach that if you yell, you're right.

Simply out of curiosity... what were the traitorest comments that I had made?

It's unfortunate that when a person presents an objective argument based on facts, screaming lunatics lash out with insults, displaying their ignorance and intolerance.

At no point did I express support for Hezbollah.
I simply pointed out that history has shown groups that were once considered terroritst, are now involved with governing themselves in democratic countries.

-T.B.

AND HOW WERE YOUR PARENTS RELATED, DON?

AMMONRA...My Mother is From BC my Father from Alberta.and they were married,can you say the same about yours? Your Traitorest comments TheBear are SUGGESTING support for the Hezbollah(TERRIOSTS)..ALL I said is the Hezbollah did not hit ONE MILITARY TARGET JUST CIVILIAN ONES WITH ROCKETS FILLED WITH BALLBEARING,MADE TO KILL CIVILIANS.Freedom Fighter NOT LIKLY..murderous terriosts YES

BY the way Citizens of Canada.... Hezbollah are considered a TERRORIST ORGANISTION BY CANADA,AND SUPPORT FOR THEM IS AGAINST THE LAW...

Again... at no point did I express support for Hezbollah. Your simplistic point of view, is the source of intolerance in this world. I don't support hezbollah attacking civilians, just as I don't support they way Isreal attacked civlians. According to your logic, they are one in the same. Please don't dive into the b.s. that hezbollah was firing out of civilian houses. There wasn't one shred of prove provided to support that claim. Let's remember on thing...10-15 civilians in lebanon died for every 1 militant. The ratio of israeli casualties was the opposite. Those numbers don't lie.
It's time to get your head out of your ass and educate yourself Don, so that you present an objective opinion.

Again... at no point did I express support for Hezbollah. Your simplistic point of view, is the source of intolerance in this world. I don't support hezbollah attacking civilians, just as I don't support they way Isreal attacked civlians. According to your logic, they are one in the same. Please don't dive into the b.s. that hezbollah was firing out of civilian houses. There wasn't one shred of prove provided to support that claim. Let's remember on thing...10-15 civilians in lebanon died for every 1 militant. The ratio of israeli casualties was the opposite. Those numbers don't lie.
It's time to get your head out of your ass and educate yourself Don, so that you present an objective opinion.

I had a Prostate exam, and I have a letter from my DR. stating I do not have a HEAD up my ASS. Check out the web, you will find pictures of burnt out rocket launchers in back yards of houses. Remember Hezbollah use women and children to hid behind because they are gutless cowards.You do not see Israel putting Military hardware beside Civilians houses.DO YOU TheBear!!!

Donnie:"ALL I said is the Hezbollah did not hit ONE MILITARY TARGET JUST CIVILIAN ONES WITH ROCKETS FILLED WITH BALLBEARING,MADE TO KILL CIVILIANS."

Those old Stalin Organ short range rockets can't hit a barn door, even if it was only 5km away. They have no guidance systems and are used in warfare in vast numbers fired at the time to swamp the enemy, hoping that something important gets hit.

Modern artillery is more accurate than those Katushka rockets, mis-identified as missiles.

Today's morning news on the CBC featured a story about vast numbers of cluster bombs (!) dropped by Israel on Lebanese towns and cities causing death and maiming amongst civilians, mostly children who innocently pick up the many unexploded ones because they are curious about them!!!

Don, don't glorify death and destruction committed by either side.

If Canada were to be occupied by foreign invaders you would be the first one to recommend driving them out by any means, including illegal and "terrorist" ones.

Ditto for Afghanistan and Iraq.

Your patriotic feelings about your country would override any other concerns.

Haha... you're good for a laugh....You are only argueing with yourself. You have chosen to ignore the points I've made, and are now trying to convince me to take your position on the matter. I've come out and stated I don't support innocent people being killed on either side. You have not made that claim. I've used history to present my argument. You can't see past yesterday. Take 10 min. of your time and try to think as a rational person. Why do these people hate their neighbours to the south so much? Why is there such a negative perception of the U.S? People aren't born with hate in their hearts. Do you really believe that people in the middle east hate the West because of the freedom in the west? That's not a rational or reasonable argument. If you do believe that , then you have bigger issues.

"ALL I said is the Hezbollah did not hit ONE MILITARY TARGET JUST CIVILIAN ONES WITH ROCKETS FILLED WITH BALLBEARING,MADE TO KILL CIVILIANS."

That is not true, Don. You also said they were, "CROSS EYED INTERBRED HEZBOLLAH COWARDS,.", hence my sarcastic question about your parent's relationship. "Do unto others....etc." Sarcasm, however, seems to be lost on you.

And as for my parents, they were married, just not to each other.

Incidentally, just because parliament decides in its infinite wisdom to declare an organisation as "Terrorist", does not mean that I can't argue the point, disagree, agree or advocate for it to be changed. It's called free speech. You may have heard of it.

Parliament decides issues by using infinite
wisdom?

Wow! Surely you are not talking about the one in Ottawa?

Since when does mandatory voting along strict party lines meet the criterium of wisdom, infinite or otherwise?

Ask Parliament's Hill, he can fill you in on the finer points of party discipline, i.e. dismissal if not toeing the line.

Not too long ago parliament decided in its infinite wisdom that boat loads of fleeing Jews were to be turned away from Canada and that Chinese immigrants were to be kept out by charging them (only them) a hefty head tax.

Parliament makes plenty of wrong decisions, even now,

Time will tell who was wrong.

Another one who doesn't get sarcasm, apparently.

So I guess you Hezbolla fans agree that Isreal has no right to exist. I find it unbelievable the number of people who think Isreal is the bad guy here. They withdraw from Lebanon and Gaza as a show of faith towards a lasting peace, knowing there was a high chance that terrorist would use these lands for staging raids and rockets. Guess what happens, they didn't disapoint. Knowing full well Isreal would not take indefinite attacks, they resume there murdurous mission. Only this time they have had years to fortify and arm Lebanon. These are the facts. The Harper government has finally given this country sane leadership which knows the difference between fanatical suicide bombers with no respect for life and Democracy under attack. The recent arrest of Tamil supporters buying guns shows how warped the previous government approached terrorists. The Tamil Tigers where big Liberal contributors. Big enoegh to preclude them from being listed as a terrorist organization by Chretien.

I read this earlier tonight and thought it gets to the point.
--------------------------------

Israeli Defense Forces (i.e., the Israeli Army) arose from the merger in 1948 of four key Zionist terrorist organizations: Hagganah, Stern Gang, Irgun, and Zvai Leumi.

Those terrorist groups were responsible for literally thousands of assassinations, both before and after the creation of the State of Israel, which included the massacre of civilians in the village of Deir Yassin which led to the expulsion of millions of Palestinians in 1948; the assassination also in 1948 of UN Mediator for Palestine Count Folke de Bernadotte (organized by the Stern Gang guerrilla group led by Ytzakh Shamir, later primer minister of Israel); and the terrorist bomb attack in 1947 against the King David Hotel in Jerusalem which housed the British Military High Command (carried out by the guerrilla group led by Menahem Beghin, later also primer minister of Israel). This latter attack set a precedent of the terrorist methodology used in the two bomb attacks in Argentina (see Question 10 below).

On the issue of "terrorism", then, there are only two options: either all of these groups - Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israeli Army - are to be regarded as "defense forces"; or all of them are branded as "terrorist groups".

-----------------------------------------

Dow, I hope everyone agrees that there is blood on everyones hands and there are no saints in this dispute.

Above all our values need to be consistant and not compromised.

Also,

------------

Hundreds of Israeli artillery shells containing nearly 200 explosive rounds each were fired into southern Lebanon during the fighting, landing in villages and towns dozens of kilometres beyond the border.

Each time a shell lands, hundreds of bomblets burst from it, creating a huge area ridden with dangerous shrapnel.

But the UN estimates that a dangerously high percentage of these failed to explode, leaving their targets strewn with potential death traps.

----------------------------

"The Israelis were using Vietnam-era stock with an extraordinarily high dud rate. We've seen some ordnance that was dated March 1973"

Marc Galasco,
Human Rights Watch

I wonder what old Winston Churchill would do?

"Indeed I do not think we should be justified in using any but the more sombre tones and colours while our people, our Empire, and indeed the whole English-speaking world are passing through a dark and deadly valley." Speech given by Winston Churchill in the House of Commons, January 22, 1941

Hezbolla launched rocket attacks for weeks, and then crossed an internationally acknowledged border killing many and kidnapping 2 soldiers. Their bunkers and launching sites were specifically located in residential areas assuring any attck would lead to civilian casualities. A PR win for the terrorists who could care a less for there own civilian population only Jihad. Sorry Chander, rational observers know whose hands the blood is on. Drumming up 60 year old history dosen't change or justify Hezbolla's leading roll in this current war.

It is unfortunate that so much heat has been generated in these comments.

I followed the link to the Hizbollah document (http://www.ict.org.il/articles/Hiz_letter.htm) and was appalled by what I saw. Go and read it honestly and open eyed. It seems that in the comments one is almost forced to choose between condemning Israel and supporting Hizbollah or vice versa.

The issue of justice in the middle east is difficult, as elsewhere, because history is complex. But look at the accusations and hyperbole in the Hizbollah document. To me this shows that the very difficult path ahead for anyone other than those who agree with them, or who support them. They speak of the need for toleration yet it is clear that they will only tolerate those who accept to live under Sharia law. One form of injustice should not replace another, even if it is expressed in religious terms.

The writer of the Hizbollah document will not tolerate injustice, agression and humiliation. I suspect injustice is defined in purely Islamic terms, ie. when muslims are the victims -- and particularly men -- not women. Slavery is still practiced in some muslim countries, women are killed or told to commit suicide for the sake of family honour. etc.

Notice the word "humiliation" That's a strong motivator for their action. Muslims, who believe that Allah is on their side, cannot understand why they are economically and politically on the lower rung. There is still a lot of anxiety over this, and who knows how this will affect the world politically and socially.

I say these things not to blindly defend Israel's actions. No. But I think it is far more dangerous to justify an organisation like Hizbollah, who answer only to their own ideas of right and wrong and who exaggerate in order to stir up fanaticism and violence.

Be on guard. The issues are far more complex than we Canadians like to think.

Posted by: ammonra on August 24 2006 09:25 PM
"Another one who doesn't get sarcasm, apparently."

SARCASM:

"A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and sometimes intends to make a victim the butt of contempt or ridicule."

Perhaps some people routinely resort to expressions of sarcasm when they have run out of intelligent things to say.

Pity.

Don't be ridiculous diplomat. The expression "in their infinite wisdom" is a very mildly sarcastic colloquial expression meaning "they" have done something mildly foolish. They "they" involved is parliament, not you.

O.K., if you allow me to be ridiculous I will not notice any of our future sarcasm.

So, let's get back to the topic.

Posted by: Chadermando on August 24 2006 06:08 AM
"What a bunch of hog wash."

What do you think about that? Was Hill's report worthy of coming from Ottawa?

I suppose any communication between an MP and constituents is worthy, since so many MPs ignore their constituents between elections. I do think that Hill has merely repeated the (Tory) party line and has presented an issue composed of 20,000 shades of grey in absolutist black and white terms.

The Middle East is a very serious World Problem, arguably the most serious, and I think that presenting it in terms of the goodies and the baddies, as Harper and Hill do, is an infantile approach that will never lead to a resolution.

Let us never forget that Israel is reputed to have nuclear weapons developed in conjunction with the old racist South Africa. Like all countries, Israel has its fanatic fringe elements, and the danger is that at some time those weapons might be brought in to play. Bush's pro-Israel at all costs approach to a problem which has combatants, both of whom have valid claims, does the World a gross disservice, and very dangerously so.

I would feel more comfortable with this issue if the United States and its allies were using their significant political influence to pressure all sides to get together and resolve the conflict, at least to a degree that allowed peoples in the area to live a somewhat secure life. It appears, however, that they prefer to play a game which lays political blame on one side of a two sided board. However, hope springs eternal, and the World hasn't ended just yet.

I suppose any communication between an MP and constituents is worthy, since so many MPs ignore their constituents between elections. I do think that Hill has merely repeated the (Tory) party line and has presented an issue composed of 20,000 shades of grey in absolutist black and white terms.

The Middle East is a very serious World Problem, arguably the most serious, and I think that presenting it in terms of the goodies and the baddies, as Harper and Hill do, is an infantile approach that will never lead to a resolution.

Let us never forget that Israel is reputed to have nuclear weapons developed in conjunction with the old racist South Africa. Like all countries, Israel has its fanatic fringe elements, and the danger is that at some time those weapons might be brought in to play. Bush's pro-Israel at all costs approach to a problem which has combatants, both of whom have valid claims, does the World a gross disservice, and very dangerously so.

I would feel more comfortable with this issue if the United States and its allies were using their significant political influence to pressure all sides to get together and resolve the conflict, at least to a degree that allowed peoples in the area to live a somewhat secure life. It appears, however, that they prefer to play a game which lays political blame on one side of a two sided board. However, hope springs eternal, and the World hasn't ended just yet.

I think I may have figured out why double posts occur sometime. I refreshed my page and it reposted my comments. Could that be why it happens?

Don't worry, it was a very good post and it deserves to be read at least twice, if not more often.

Diplomat.

Kyeya, Thank you for your input. I agree with your comments. They also confirm the information I have been receiving.

Conventional media is not reporting the whole story. Or, has been misled. Chester

Ammonra that was a very good post. Very perceptive.

Dow7000 you’re a liar with bad morals. The facts are hezbollah did not fire a single rocket into Israel until after Israel bombed Beirut International Airport. Some say this brutal attack on civilian infrastructure and peace was justified by the boarder capture of 2 Israeli soldiers. Others say these two Israeli soldiers were captured as part of an ongoing boarder dispute and issue over Lebanese POW’s held by Israel. Some say the Israeli shelling of a family on the beach in Gaza was the precursor to all the violence in Gaza and Lebanon. One thing is clear Olmart was given the green light by Bush way back in May long before Hezbollah captured the Israeli soldiers.

I am not justifying hezbollah, just checking the facts as they are. At minimum we should talk in facts on such an important subject.

Kyeya, your points are sound. I won’t argue any of those points.

That said you still have to admit that nowhere in that document does hezbollah say they wish to commit genocide against the Jewish people in the terms of Jews. Clearly Jay Hill was wrong to write this kind of hate speech not based on facts and designed to play on the fears of religious warfare.

I see the Hezbollah charter identifying their threat as zionism; and in particular the extreme forms of zionism that had carried out terrorist actions against their people. They recognize it for the political reality that zionism is, which is a lot more than I can say for 99% of people in the West. I think it is the media that makes us all think zionism is the Jewish religion and the Jewish people and not a political movement no different than communism, fascism, conservatism, socialism, or capitalism. As such it should not have immunity from criticism and should be treated on its merits as any other political movement is.

I think that we are all caught up in something that is grinding on towards an almost unimaginably bad outcome.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/082206.html

Canada has placed itself in the thick of things after relinquishing its former "peacekeeping only" role by joining the forces that want to conquer and subdue the Middle East no matter how the countries there object to it.

"Dow7000 you’re a liar with bad morals."

What a bizaar statement. As if Israel woke up one morning and decided to bomb Bieruit in some kind of Bush/Blair/Olhmert conspiriacy. Things were going to smooth for Israel so they decided to blast Lebabanon. It's been to long without a war so Olmert/Bush decided to stir the pot, and get those Israeli reservists some much needed action. I guess all the reports of rockets fired into Northern Israel were all bogus and only Chandermando knows the real truth. What about the endless suicide bombings on Israeli civilian targets, for years. In Gaza the terrorists built a tunnel under the border to attack a israeli post. I guess this is just a "border dispute" in your pea brain. Do you think Israel needs a green light from Bush? They have been fighting these terrorists for 60 years. They have been under attack my whole life. Hezbolla has been arming Southern Labanon for years through Syria and Iran, with the stated intent of wiping Israel from the face of the earth. These are the facts. " Bad morals"??? You are the last clown on this blog to judge morals.

Dow you really are the one that is a clown with a pea-brain.

Facts are that not one rocket was fired into Israel until after Israel attacked Lebanese civilian infrastructure. I repeat not one rocket. Period. Show me a credible news release that says otherwise, or stop the lies.

The suicide bombing on Israel coming from Gaza had nothing to do with hezbollah and their resistance to sovereign violations of Lebanon. That was the work of hamaz, and Islamic jihad fighting in Palistine against their own Israeli aparthied. One group is Sunni (hamaz & i.j.), and the other is Shia (hezbollah), and the two hated each other before the Israeli attack on Lebanon. Mixing the two up does a disservice to the truth and shows your level of understanding.

The fight in Gaza is not a boarder dispute, it is a fight against protracted ethnic cleansing and aparthied conditions impossed on the people of Aribic decent in the former lands of Palistine. It is a fight of one people with nothing to fight with but surprise, and another that has the worlds most deadly and advanced weapons of war. The whole mess is disgusting and both sides are guilty of war crimes against humanity in the holy land.

Facts are that Israel is the power in the region with the ability to make peace through restraint and understanding.

Israel obviously needs a green light from Bush to do anything. Israel relies on $9 Billion dollars of US aid each year just to survive as a nation. This amounts to 1/3 of all US foreign aid. Clearly Israel required emergency shipments of fuel and munitions from the US during their war that was granted by Bush. On May 23rd the deal was sealed with Olmarts visit to the White House.

-------------------------------------

http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2006/082406PARRY.html

Olmert's Blunder

Following Bush’s bellicose lead, Israel’s new Prime Minister Ehud Olmert also blundered into a messy conflict that hurt rather than helped Israeli interests. Olmert, who was elected earlier this year amid hopes of finally settling the border disputes with the Palestinians, surprised some followers when he came out of a May 23 summit with Bush sharing the President’s view on the need for a hard-line against intransigent Islamic governments and movements.

According to Israeli sources, Olmert and Bush agreed at the White House meeting to make 2006 the year for neutralizing Iran’s nuclear ambitions and for taking on Iran’s Shiite allies in Lebanon, the Hezbollah militia. The leaders decided to defer a border settlement with the Palestinians until 2007.

Bush’s neoconservative advisers were encouraged, again seeing the possibility of a wider regional conflict that would revive the stalled hopes for a “new Middle East” amenable to U.S. and Israeli desires and interests.

From this viewpoint, the Israeli-Hezbollah war was a confrontation waiting for a pretext, not an emotional response to Hezbollah’s capture of two Israeli soldiers on July 12. That “kidnapping” was sold to the American people as the precipitating event for the conflict, but it now appears only to have been a trigger for a prearranged scenario.

Israeli sources indicate that Bush gave Olmert a green light for the conflict at the May 23 summit. The sources said Bush even encouraged Israel to expand the war by attacking Syria, although Israeli leaders balked at that recommendation because they lacked an immediate justification.

One Israeli source said some Israeli officials considered Bush’s interest in an attack on Syria “nuts” since it would have been viewed by much of the world as an act of overt aggression. Bush, however, was said to still hold out hope that reactions by Syria or Iran – such as coming to the aid of Hezbollah – could open the door to a broader conflict.

In an article on July 30, the Jerusalem Post hinted at Bush’s continued interest in a wider war involving Syria. Israeli “defense officials told the Post last week that they were receiving indications from the US that America would be interested in seeing Israel attack Syria,” the newspaper reported.

------------------------------------------

Israeli Leaders Fault Bush on War

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/081406PARRY.shtml

--------------------------------------------
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/080806.html

A 'Pretext' War in Lebanon
By Robert Parry
August 9, 2006


Three days after the May 23 summit between Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and U.S. President George W. Bush, a car bomb killed two officials of Islamic Jihad in the Lebanese city of Sidon.

Immediately, Lebanese officials, including Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, denounced the murder of brothers Nidal and Mahmoud Majzoub and pointed the finger at Israel as the prime suspect. On June 10, a man named Mahmoud Rafeh was arrested for the car bombing and, according to the Lebanese army, confessed that he was a Mossad agent.

Rafeh, a 59-year-old retired police officer, belonged to a “terror network working for the Israeli Mossad,” which had smuggled a booby-trapped door into Lebanon from Israel for use in the assassination, the Lebanese army said.

In retrospect, the Majzoub assassination looks to have been part of a larger U.S.-Israeli strategy – following the Olmert-Bush summit – to encourage a tit-for-tat escalation of violence that would ratchet up pressure on Palestinian and Lebanese militants – and through them their allies in Syria and Iran.
--------------------------------------------

Good come back. You pretty much got me. NOT!!
Isreal attacked the Bierut airport on July 13. There were countless rockets fired prior to this as anyone with a computer can quickly verify.
Your keen interest and biased knowledge of this conflict suggest you have an motive other than blogging on your mind. Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO,chandermando against the worldo, what ever the stripe, they are all terrorists and will meet the same fate. Being a Palestinian apologist must be hard. You would need to overlook all the facts of the conflict and somehow accept the fact that blowing up civilians is an acceptable way to fight a conflict. I know, "what about the hundreds killed by Israeli airstrikes" . Well,here is the big difference. As has been mentioned, Hamas/Hezbolla,PLO, have been using deluded Palistinian youth for years to blow themselves up in Israeli buses, pizza parlours and anywhere civilians could be killed with maximum effect. Where's the outcry for these murderous deeds from the main stream media? Lebanese casulties were the dirrect result of the Terrorists stageing there attacks from civilian areas. See the difference? Probably not. Keep spreading your twisted views with links to sympathetic anti-semetic news sources. Most people with a semblance of right and wrong know who the bad guy is here.

First of you demean the term anti-semitism and the context it is reserved for with your use of it to defend a political position involving killing people.

Second 'deluded Paistinian youth' in your words could be abused hopeless-future individual with no rights of existance to others. I don't think delusion motivates them, I would look at the hatered they experience for that answer.

Third the Lebanese civilian casualties were a direct result of Israeli precision bombing. This is undisputed fact, not hypathtical assumption. Your hypocricy is incredibly stunning.

Fourth quit it with your lie about the rockets prior to Israeli bombing civilina areas, until you prove otherwise. If theere was any evidence I would have read about it.

Fifth you are lucky to hide under the skirt of the computer for calling me a terrorist that will 'meet-the-same-fate' in your inuendo death threat.

Your death threat as a last resort in a losing political debate basically sums up your appreciation of 'democracy' and is a better example than I could come up with for why your zionist ideology is so dangerous.

Kind of reminds me of the Taliban solution to their political enemies. Label all political opposition as terrorist and kill them all because they had it coming to them to shut up any alternate ideas to an extremist ideology.

Not the kind of people Jay Hill and Stephen Harper want to be siding with I would have assumed. Your post is the typical response of the zionist people our government is appologizing for.

Ok Chander, my turn. What would you call a youth who thinks blowing himself up along with many civilians with the reward being martyrdom and a bunch of virgins? Rational? Misguided? I think deluded sums it up nicely.

Reguarding the Lebanese civilian casualties. Again, for the brainwahsed, Hezbollah has launched most offenses from Civilian areas. So, If a terrorist launches rockets from a building which is then bombed by a precision bomb or artillary, are the civilians the main target?
This is not hypocracy, its called reality, an area I would encourage you to explore. Hezbollah uses almost exclusive civilian targets

And now the truth about these Lebanese rockets which you vehmently say were only used after the Israelis began targeting civilians "The facts are hezbollah did not fire a single rocket into Israel until after Israel bombed Beirut International Airport." You indignantly said.

Here are some links which may enlighten you.
(A simple google search under "Labanese rockets"
is all you need to find the facts chander)

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/13/mideast/index.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50416


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Military_Operations_in_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict#Wednesday.2C_July_12

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50416

The facts are rockets have been coming from Southern Lebanon for some time. Dec 29,2005, and a unprovoked attack on May 30,2006. Then, in July,2006, Hezbollah, fired rockets as a decoy to cover the ambush on which the 2 soldiers were kidnapped and several more killed. These are not to be confused with the unprovoked rockets fired from Gaza. So again the facts show repeated rocket asaults and Palistinian agression as the cause of this current conflict. These are the facts. Now if you don't believe these facts. I suggest you widen your information sources beyond the "Syria Daily Times".

Dow I don't have a lot of time to debate you right now. The only reason why you got a response is because your last post made more of an effort to debate rather than threaten.

First, I think we can all agree that terrorism is the result of one party having overwhelming power in a conflict and the other party not perceiving this power as being welded ethically.

Second, I have never cited Syria Daily Times. You on the other hand have cited Worldnetdaily that at one time had great content until they sold out their purported Christian values of peace and love for the current zionist ownership of empire apologists and promoters. Its definitely a compromised source.

Your May 29th article from Worldnetdaily is a week after the Bush-Olmert war-conference, and three days after the mossad assassination of the islamic jihad leader in Lebanon through an exploding door. Nowhere in the article does it say hezbollah took credit for the rockets. It was likely a result of islamic jihad retaliating for the assassination of their leader.

The facts are clear that Israel employs the strategy of incitement through provocations to generate a response that justifies the starting point of blame to eliminate the rights of the Israeli enemy in the methods Israel deploys to move the Israeli agenda forward.

From my point of view a person born and raised in a refugee camp disgruntled about a lost inheritance from ethnic cleansing, is a person with a right to fight back.

If that means lobbing a few rockets to answer the deaf sounds of a negotiated settlement that respects past claims of injustice, then I say Israel as the one with the power to implement a moral solution, is the one with responsibility for peace.

It realy makes one wonder who the real terrorists are....

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Mr Egeland described the fresh statistics as "shocking new information".

"What's shocking and completely immoral is: 90% of the cluster bomb strikes occurred in the last 72 hours of the conflict, when we knew there would be a resolution," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5299938.stm

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The neocon plan to bomb Iran.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH31Ak01.html

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If they had the gall to blow the President's head off in broad daylight with the world's media watching over 40 years ago - what would stop the same lineage of criminals from carrying out 9/11?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/300806jfk.htm