Never mind the bridges... we will just fly to work!

While diversification is good, at what cost ? We are loosing a industry that employees literally thousands of people in PG and trying to replace it with the a refueling stand that will maybe employee another 10-15 people. If the expansion costs 30 million and hopefully the beetle fund only kicks in 10 million, that is still a hefty price to pay for 10-15 jobs.

I thought the PG airport had the funding for the expansion??? Seems typical that all the money spent so far at the airport has been on offices, parking lot and fancy terminal, but nothing spent on the parts of the airport the aircraft actually use, or would see as an improvement.

So if the beetle money from the Feds doesn't come through the whole airport thing never had funding???

Luna - we don't all have to work at the mill piling lumber or hauling logs. There is billions and billions invested in those jobs, anything that is a sustainable sector needs big investments. Unless you think a sewing machine repair center will do the same thing?

Well if the 10 million, to pick on a number, went towards some sort of manufacturing instead of what is basically a service industry then I think that would be a good benefit / cost ratio. What was that name of the trailer company and wouldn't build here due to lack of available trained welders ? Why is CNC just now getting caught up in the trades area, with wait lists spanning two years. They should have been on the ball several years ago. Forget the University transfer courses, let the University do that and get the trades training up to speed.

My son graduated at UNBC and is making a good living in Ontario now, but most of the courses and UNBC diploma's are a waste of time and public money.

So Luna might be right on this on.

Business 101

In the private sector there are very few businesses that have the luxury of having a guaranteed client base before they open up. Business plans have to be made, funding secured, facilities rented or built, inventory purchased, staff hired and trained.

Then the store opens, after that investment. Few will see net profits within the first year or two.

Why should it be any different for running an airport?

I doubt that the airport is going to make much money on travellers that would not come here unless we had an extended runway.

The extended runway is an investment I understand they are making in the hopes of attracting long haul flights from Asia who now use Anchorage as a stopover as well as a redistribution centre. The belief is that, as with the Rupert Port, the transportation of goods is a growth industry.

In order for a company to build a facility here, they will need to have the runway in place or under construction. They will not invest in new buildings and hiring of staff if there is just talk.

I understand that a redistribution centre could mean as many as 1,000 employees.

Then again, we could also have an airport authority that lies down and plays dead.

This is a prime example of the Chicken and The Egg. Do you build the Airport extension, and then hope to get some business. Or do you try to get some business commitment and then build the extension.
The Prince George Airport Authority has no money, and is basically broke. It has to borrow money or get **free** money from the Governments of the day in order to build this extension.

The income for the Airport Authority comes from;
(1) Landing and Terminal Fees 35%
(2) Concessions and Parking 45%
(2) Airport improvement Fees 20%

Airport improvement Fee money must be spent for airport infrastructure. However the income from AIF at Prince George is not sufficient to fund this kind of expansion, therefore they must borrow the money from the Federal/Provincial Governments.

The end result will be somewhat like the new Customs Facility at the Airport that houses a rental car from one of the car rental business's. At this point we only get one flight per week for 6 weeks in the winter to Mexico. Hardly enough to be considered an Inernational Airport. Any business for a re-distribution centre would have to be taken away from some other City than is already doing this type of business, and you can rest assured that they will not give it up easily.

This whole concept is very close to being discribed as a **pipe dream** however we will just have to wait and see.

I think having an airport container port adds a whole new competitive dimension to our economy.

If the cargo planes land in Prince George - once the runway extension is complete - they will refuel here. That means that they can carry more cargo because they can fly with less fuel.

More cargo means more money earned in the cargo business. Every extra pound is money in the bank.

They have expressed a kean interest in landing here - all that is needed is the longer runway.

There is also an opportunity to become a re-distribution centre.

The passenger aspect is very small, although some charter airlines which presently fly from Europe to Vancouver (with passengers who want to go north) would fly here instead.

Every large airport in the world started out small - and with a pipe dream for progress.

If one always thinks "small" one has already set one's own limitations.

Government has been singing this song for at least 3 years now....really getting boring...

No longer a one horse town, we are starting to think outside the box and push the envelope. Doing things the same old way will get the same old results.
Lengthen the damned runway and then watch the nay sayers run for cover.
My money is on the future, not the past.

Diplomat. Redistribution to where?? Are you suggesting that we will have planes land in Prince George and then have the Cargo unloaded and reloaded onto other planes to go to Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal. Get Real. These towns get there Air Freight direct to their own Airports. Redistribution centres are huge complexes stratigically located in the USA for distribtion to all 50 States, and Canada. Planes from all over the world fly into these centres and off load, the product is sorted and reloaded to specific destinations. It is highly unlikely that Major carriers would locate in an area like Prince George. Our runway expansion and Airport itself couldnt begin to handle the planes that land and depart these huge centres, every day. (Get Real)

The Airport in Tokoya Japan that was built on the Ocean is one of the largest Airports in the World. It was built from scratch. To suggest it started out small would be inane.

You people give to much credence to the story of the Little Red Engine. ** I think we can** **I think we can**. It appears that you have forgotten that this was a childrens story.

Actual facts based on research and common sense will give you a better idea on whats going on around this Country, rather than wishful thinking.

Diplomat. Redistribution to where?? Are you suggesting that we will have planes land in Prince George and then have the Cargo unloaded and reloaded onto other planes to go to Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal. Get Real. These towns get there Air Freight direct to their own Airports. Redistribution centres are huge complexes stratigically located in the USA for distribtion to all 50 States, and Canada. Planes from all over the world fly into these centres and off load, the product is sorted and reloaded to specific destinations. It is highly unlikely that Major carriers would locate in an area like Prince George. Our runway expansion and Airport itself couldnt begin to handle the planes that land and depart these huge centres, every day. (Get Real)

The Airport in Tokoya Japan that was built on the Ocean is one of the largest Airports in the World. It was built from scratch. To suggest it started out small would be inane.

You people give to much credence to the story of the Little Red Engine. ** I think we can** **I think we can**. It appears that you have forgotten that this was a childrens story.

Actual facts based on research and common sense will give you a better idea on whats going on around this Country, rather than wishful thinking.

Some points of interest;

Recent News Release: U.S.A.

**/
There is a rush to build distribution centers (DCs) in China, following the recent massive manufacturing surge. But there may be one more important reason for this movement. The cost of warehouse workers in China is $2.00 per hour, while in the U.S its $14 to $15 per hour.

These centers are located adjacent to major manufacturing centers and are often used to sort and directly ship a lot of merchandise that would ordinarily have been resorted on arrival in the U.S.A.

Global shippers such as UPS, FedEx, DHL, are making big moves in China. DHL has 16 such distribution centers there and is spending $110 Million on its hub and sorting facility in Hong Kong alone. UPS Supply Chain Solutions, which has 40 DCs in China is adding ten more this year.

Most centers being put up by UPS in China are in excess of 200,000 square ft. One in Shanghai will be 400,000 Square feet. As staggering as this size may seem, it is merely midrange by distribution-center standards.

New U.S. ceners are often 1,000,000 square feet in area and several stories tall. They can be recognized most easily by the nearly endless truck loading docks that they have on all sides.

Wal Marts centers can have 250 docking stations and can comfortably serve 500 big trucks per day

This should give you some indication as to what is required to have a major distribution center. There is absolutely nothing that could or would warrant having such a facility in the middle of the Province of British Columbia thousands of miles away from major population areas.

Palopu ......

"This is a prime example of the Chicken and The Egg."

You never started a business which is goods oriented, have you?

Here is someone's information on Wikipedia about the redistribution centres in Anchorage, Alaska ... you know, that place that is right in the middle of major population areas!!! ... ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Stevens_Anchorage_International_Airport

In case people did not know, PG is on the same flight line as Anchorage to the mid-west and eastern seabord of the USA ..... no one is concerned about 30 million in Canada .... they want to service the part of the 300 million who live on the eastern seabord ....

Anchorage airport is congested, has expensive land, and high salaries .........

If goods could be sorted at the place of origin, then they would not have to be sorted in Anchorage.

As with any business, there are risks. Planes could become more efficient and be able to fly further, for instance. Fuel can become outrageously expensive and people will ship less by air. China-USA relations could chill and less products could be shipped. .... and on and on .....

Owl. The Airport expansion has nothing to do with business. Here is how it works.

There were 26 Airports in Canada that were turned over to Airport Authoritys by the Federal Government to run. These are community-based, not-for profit organizations. The Airport Authority has no shareholders and receives no government funding, guarantees or subsidies and all earnings are re-invested in airport development and service improvements. The single largest cost of running these airport authorities is the rent the airport pays to the federal government. The Airport authority is responsible for the maintenance and development of the airports facilities including the terminal buildings, runways and the roads leading to the Airports. In 2003 the rent for the Vancouver Airport totalled approx 66 Million and was expected to jump to 72 Million in 2004.

All revenue from the Airport Improvement Fees(Head Tax) must be used for Airport Improvements, and cannot be used for any other purpose.

The Prince George Airport was the last of the 26 Airports in Canada to be turned into an Airport Authority, and it barely met the criteria.

You can see from the foregoing that because the money generated from Airport Improvement Fees (AIF) has to be spent on improvements that the first thing they did was build the new terminal building, the second thing they did was to double the capacity of the parking lot, and it appears that the third thing they will do will be to extend the runway. (Assuming they can borrow the money) These projects are driven by the need of the Airport Authority to spend the money it generates from AIF's. If they do not spend the money on improvements then they would have to reduce the AIF's (Heaven Forbid).

The conclusion is that the Airport Runway expansion is more about spending money and less about increasing business. Even if they did not get any business, they will be required to pay for this extension with the funds from the AIF for the next 20 years, and therefore (Walla) we have job security.

The Vancouver Airport Authority has made millions and millions of dollars over the years from the AIF's mainly because of the huge volumes of passengers it has going through its facilities. It now faces the problem of finding ways to continue to spend all this money. There most recent huge expenditure was giving $300 Million to the ALRT that will be built to the Vancouver Airport.

The problem with the Prince George Airport is that it is possible that they cannot generate enough revenue from Concessions,Parking, Landing and Terminal Fees, and Airport Improvement Fees to make this a vialble operation. If they cant, then at some point it will return to the Federal Government to run, or the Federal Government will reduce its rent to a point that the Authority can make money.

Anchorage Alaska has a population of 270,000 people. The state of Alaska has a population of 650,000. Anchorage is a major seaport, and of course a major airport, and is the major distribution centre for the whole State of Alaska, it as indicated above is also a distribution centre for some business from Fedex,UPS,DHL, mainly because of its location, and the fact that it has a vote in the US Senate, and House of Representatives, and has some clout when it comes to locating business. In additon Alaska has huge military basis that require consistant and immediate transportation services, not to mention huge oil deposits and facilities.

Prince George has none of the above, certainly no seaport, no military, no International Airport,no Oil, no State (Or Province) to service and no clout in the Province. I think we can say that we cannot compare ourselves to Anchorage Alaska in any way, other than the fact that the Mayor of Anchorage attended the World Winter Conference of Mayors in China last year, along with our Mayor and they were the only Mayors from North America in attendence. Other than that no comparison.

"a distribution centre for some business from Fedex,UPS,DHL, mainly because of its location"

BINGO!!!!! and if you look on Google Earth or some other 3D geographical tool like that you will find that PG is the same .....

Owl. Nice try. I am talking about their location as a Seaport, and Airport to service the state of Alaska, the distribution centres are a part of the overall distribution of goods and services for Alaska.

Prince George would not be a good distribution centre because it is to far removed from major population areas.

I gave you the example of the 500 truckloads per day from a Wal-Mart distribution centre to give you some idea of the magnitude of these operations. Where do you suppose 500 trucks loaded with merchandise per day in Prince George would go??? Try nowhere. This is a **Pipedream pure and simple**

Anchorage is more than a distribution centre for a state which has a population less than that of either New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, yet whose air cargo distribution centres and air traffic are considerably greater than that of those two provinces combined.

As with many things in this world, it is location, location, location.

As much as some may wish to deny it, PG is well placed from the point of view of location, capacity (once a runway in the 9,000 to 10,000 foot range is in place) and even pay rates when compared to Alaska pay rates.

Anchorage is more than a distribution centre for a state which has a population less than that of either New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, yet whose air cargo distribution centres and air traffic are considerably greater than that of those two provinces combined.

As with many things in this world, it is location, location, location.

As much as some may wish to deny it, PG is well placed from the point of view of location, capacity (once a runway in the 9,000 to 10,000 foot range is in place) and even pay rates when compared to Alaska pay rates.

Dont know if your still out there Owl., however here are a few jems for you to chew on. This information comes directly from the Marketing Manager of the Ted Turner International Airport, Anchorage Alaska.

Anchorage has approx 1000 Cargo flights per week, however only about 700 of them are International wide-body freighter flights. The remaining flights are in-state.

Anchorage does not have a congestion problem at all. Their current Master Plan calls for an additional runway in the future that will handle any increase in traffic.

They do not expect to have any kind of issue with their fuel supply (Contrary to what Mr. Hoeg of the PG Airport has stated) their fuel is supplied from a few different sources. 2 within the State of Alaska and the other from the Pacific Northwest. They have the ability to increase supply to meet any future demand.

Still with me Owl??? Heres the crunch.

What makes Anchorage so desirable is its location in relation to the origin and destination points of the carriers that serve Anchorage. For example, a flight from Tokyo to Anchorage to New York, the distance from Tokyo to Anchorage is 3,458 Miles, and Anchorage to New York is 3,385 Miles. The same flight from Tokyo to New York with a stop in Vancouver the distance would be Tokyo to Vancouver 4,701 Miles and Vancouver to New York is 2,449 . The flight to Vancouver is over 2 hours longer that the flight to Anchorage. This requires the carrier to carry a large load of fuel and reduced load of cargo. Essentially giving up revenue to carry fuel.

One other issue to think about , is that about 95% of the cargo flights that operate through Anchorage are destined for the U.S. A stop in Canada increases the Carrier's regulatory compliance requirements. The carrier currently has export requirements with their home country, import requirements with U.S. Customs, and would add a third level of requirements from Canadian Customs.

Owl. The same sort of logistic problems would exist if these planes were to come to Prince George and then on to the USA.

Anchorage Airport grew from Nothing in 1948 to where it is to-day.

Prince George Airport grew from what is was in 1938-45 to where it is to-day.

Absolutely no comparison.

So we have the words of a marketing manager we are relying on. What else would a marketing manager tell you? "We are in deep doo doo"? No different than what the marketing manager for Ford would tell you.

We are talking about international air cargo hubbing. I do not care about local air cargo. The growth in that operation in Anchorage has occurred in the last decade. It used to be a refueling stop in the same fashion that Gander was. Is it sustainable? I doubt it. Again, look at Gander. Technology and systems change. SO, the only reason why both existed(ed) is location in relation to a given operating/technological environment.

PG may be a player, and I would think a relatively small player, for a while.

Read the link to see how Anchorage got to be where they are. They did not do so by getting up each day and saying: "ho hum, another day of refueling planes."

http://www.glscs.com/archives/4.97.hubs.htm?adcode=90

a quote from the article:

"Most carriers are trained to think about origin and destination points when they think about bilateral issues — they don’t think about innovative things like cargo hubbing opportunities on FOREIGN SOIL. We really NEEDED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THOSE ACTIVITIES WERE ALLOWABLE"

Will PG get some of that business? I don't know. Will Rupert get some of the Vancouver sea cargo business? If so, how much?