Ben, I fully agree with you! I have been observing this gradual deterioration of our roads and streets for 15 to 18 years. Inquiries and comments have been ignored and the mayor has always said (on your radio show, for instance) that there is really nothing to complain about as far as the condition of the roads goes.

I am convinced that he has allowed the road issue to be relegated to a very low priority in his expectation that huge amounts of federal transfer money would be forthcoming any day now.

Of course, it never happened. Perhaps the city has now finally realized that the Feds have different priorities. The new city manager may have something to do with this, perhaps.

Councillor Dan Rogers a couple of years ago mentioned a figure of approximately $60 million dollars that are needed to bring our infrastructure up to snuff. It was an indication of how much work had been left undone instead of being dealt with every year, systematically.

The money for additional road rehabilitation can be found by cancelling a few extravagant projects and a general belt tightening at City Hall, in my opinion.

I too really would like to know where all the money is going from the gambling revenue which is growing in leaps and bounds!

Tax revenue is already up due to the increased housing values.

Colin needs to start managing the city like a business instead of social club and start setting priorities based on the taxpayers needs.

I am on Ben's side when it comes to showing where money is going and where it is coming from. This is a shell game. This city needs to be audited and it needs it badly. Many of us want to know how well the city is being run. How money is spent is a major part of that. This is a much broader issue than just roads.

A city needs an art gallery as much as it need sports facilities. We need a performing arts centre and if rumours are true, then we will hear more from that group within a week or so.
I am sure that it they will not get a good airing.

We need people at city hall who know what they are doing. The latest is that the zoning bylaw and a couple of others are not going to Council on Monday because staff has to "ensure revisions are consistent with public planning objectives and that regulatory requirements are balanced with user friendliness" ... now, that may, in fact, be the hands of the new city manager. The public hearings have been postponed till further notice. If this is what I think it is, it is about time. The zoning bylaw is a quagmire. How much money is wasted on such activities at City Hall?

Finally, once I know we have a ship that is properly run, I want that gallery and the performing arts centre and roads which are drivable and a snow removal policy which speaks to a city with snow, and clean boulevards ... I want a city I can be proud of and I am willing to pay for it. In fact, the survey taken about two years ago says that there are many more who feel the same way.

As I have said many times, we pay less in municipal taxes here than most other cities that I am aware of, unless one makes comparisons with Alberta where the province bails out municipalities with the oil money they get from the rest of us Canadians.

I just saw the renderings for the Richmond Olympic ice oval. It makes the UNBC sports centre look like a warehouse.

"Tax revenue is already up due to the increased housing values."

No they are not. House values are up. Tax revenues are set each year based on the budget. We have yet to see what this year's taxes are going to be. House values are up by around 20%. You have read that the mayor wants 4% more for roads.

Well, if the City were to use the same will rate as last year, the tax revenues from the residential sector would be about 20%. If the city would do that they would have a riot. And, even though I do not mind paying more if we get better service, I would join the riot if they were to keep the mill rates the same as last year.

I meant the tax revenue INCREASE would be about 20%.

I have possibly worn this statement a bit thin, but I feel a complete audit of all departments at Prince George City Hall should be uppermost in the new city Manager's mind.
It has been a "sick" situation for many years-and never a reasonable cure in the offing.
I initially felt Zurowski would be an asset to council, but he has nosed his way into the trough with the rest, hoping to secure his place by siding with the Mayor.
The residents have had a clear picture of Kinsley for many years, but he got voted back in!
Now,how does that speak for the brain power of the voting public?
Really not a brilliant lot-are they?
Now he is really touting his true colors-and back into the pockets of the residents with a
punch. And there are those who say "oh, yes, I will pay more." They ignore the past 10 years when then paid more and consistently received less.
Talk about brain dead.
Get a reality check, and stop looking at these yahoos through rose colored glasses.
Send them on a well rewarded trip-with no return ticket.
Get the message? I didn't think so!

How much do you think the "group" representing the performing arts centre will be asking for? We do not need another white elephant like the art gallery, civic centre, Mutiplex, or Northern Sports Centre. We can't afford to subsidize anything else. Set some chairs up in the Civic Centre and let the performing arts group do their little plays there.

4% to get the job done is no big deal, however to take that 4% and do studies of which pothole needs to be fixed first is likely what would happen.

Why din't Hizzoner do this last year? Or the year before? Or even before that? Seems to me that he is kinda outa touch with what this towns pothole problems are. Being oblivious to the forsaken cow path which is named Abhu St. From 5th to 15th is but just one example. I guess driving to the airport so often and not driving down Abhu would account for this lapse in knowledge. I certainly hope Hizzoner reads this website and somewhat entertaining submissions by those who think their opinion counts. If you know the mayor, let him know this website exists. I bet even Ben would let him become a member. I would, like others, look forward to Hizzoners comments and critiques and saying Touche'. Nuff said.

>"Colin needs to start managing the city like a business instead of social club and start setting priorities based on the taxpayers needs."<

We have a City Manager to manage the city. Mr. Kinsley has political talents and perhaps could be a very successful provincial or federal politician rather than waste his considerable PR skills on the bread and butter issues of a city like Prince George, like sidewalks, potholes and ditches full of weeds.

Perhaps he will decide one day (soon) to embark on a career that is based in Victoria or even Ottawa.

Other mayors of large cities have done this in the past with remarkable success.

You are correct diplomat. There are many politicians who were successful in becoming provincial or federal politicians. However, note that I said successful in becoming politicians. It does not mean that they have been succcessful in serving the tax payers better than they did when they were mayors. Lets be careful who we elect to provincial or federal office. Just because they were mayors, doesn't make them a "good" politician.

Colin can't make it as a politician. Remember he ran for the PC's some time ago in a federal election and didn't mget elected. So don't pump up his hopes.

Cheers

We already pay a road tax! and the high cost of fuel in PG we should have the best roads in Canada

If, and I say IF,,, we knew that the money would go to roads, we might, be a little more accepting of this increase.
What is happening with the money the city is getting as a kick back on the road tax on petroleum?
There are always great ideas on how to get money for a supposed reason, and then it seems to end up someplace else, a higher priority elsewhere ????? or some such story...

jonnypg has it we pay 40% of every litre is supposed to go to roads our roads should be paved in gold for what we already pay.Maybe Collin should go to the feds for money not us he went all the way to china for nothing so whats a trip to Ottawa.

Roads and roads of it...
Speaking of roads and bridges...
Has anyone not noticed how easier and safer it is to turn left off 1st ave up onto Carney street, since the Cameron st bridge was closed??
No problems now turning left and less trucks on first ave, they just take hwy97 and use that newer bigger safer Hart Bridge 2 minutes away.
Im totally convinced we dont need another multi-million dollar bridge 2 minutes apart from each other...

I think, as is quite usual, the real message has not gotten out about why a 4% increase is being suggested.

Council is considering a "pay-as-you-go" approach for road repair and repaving. It would see the taxes covering the cost of such work in the year it's carried out.

To date, the city borrows about $2.3 million a year for those repairs and repays that money over 15 years. There are other monies added to the 2.3 for the total spent on road repair.

They go on to say that the money is borrowed since the asset provides a benefit for several years and therefore those who are using it in the future should also shoulder some of the cost. Sort of the same as the reason one can justify borrowing money to build a capital facility such as a police station.

Of course, that follows today's philosphy of borrow, build, earn, pay. It keeps the lenders happy.

My parents followed the old philosophy of earn, save, spend, build. You ain't got the money, then you ain't gettin' it. Today versus yesterday. My parents have lots of money in their old age to give to their grandkids by following that philosphy.

Why have we lost that over the years?

So, the way I see this is:

In the old fashioned system of paying as you go

1. we are $2.3 million short in the money needed repair roads.

2. we up taxes to pay for that up front and we no longer owe money and we have repaired roads.

3. next year we pay the same higher level of taxes and we again have 2.3million to repair roads, or whatever amount will be needed as the years progress and construction costs and number of roads coming on stream for repairs increase.

In the modern day system of borrow to your hearts content until your lenders call your loan

1. in year one we owe $2.3million and pay taxes to pay down the loan over 15 years.

2. in year two we owe an additional $2.3 million for that year's work, plus abut $2.15million from the previous year.

3. not taking interest into account or increases in costs, by year 15 we would owe over $20million, which would begin to level off

So, for me the decision is rather easy. The second way is simply not sustainable. The roads repair is a maintenance item and any regular maintenance should not be capitalized and financed with loans.

The question I have is who at City Hall ever came up with that hairbrained notion in the first place.

To me just another indicator that neither Council nor Administration are capable of managing this city in a reponsible way.

Today the newspaper talked about keeping our roads in a better condition. In my mind keeping roads in a less than good condition means that they are not being maintained for the use for which they are intended. When I buy a product and find that it is not usable for the use for which it is intended, I take it back to the retailer. There is no better business bureau for City government in this province. High time we got one!

Thank you for that information owl (Don Bassermann?...you sound like him) I had no idea that they borrow money to temporarily (maximum
1 week) paste potholes and cracks!

What are the annual taxes used for?

I completely agree with Ben's article and Trusted's post. It seems to me there is a complete lack of respect for money in this country. We are living way beyond our means. Sooner or later we are going to be smacked in the mouth as a result of this general lack of respect for money in our society. Surely the next recession can't be too far off.

It seems a little strange to me that this proposal should be made at this time. Im a little cynical when these suggestions come out of the **blue**. My first thought is why this idea, and why now???

There was no mention of this type of borrowing in the last election or budget. There has been no mention of it at any council meeting that I have heard of. So why now??. As Ben says people have been complaining about the lack of money being put into roads for years, so why are they now suggesting ways to put money into roads. Why are they now after all these years, stating that we could save money by paying for the road repair up front and therefore avoid interest.

I suggest to you that it is all about future borrowing from the Municipal Lending Authority. I am assuming that in addition to what we already owe, which is somewhere in the area of $80,000,000.00 excluding the Teresan Gas Deal. Add in the Teresan Gas deal approx $60,000,000.00 and your present debt is in the area of $140,000,000.00 (Maybe more, as these are rough figures) The City will want to borrow money for the following.


(1) $7 Million or more for the Cameron St., Bridge.
(2) $18 Million for a new Police Station
(3) $10 Million for a new Performing Arts Centre.(This figure is a guess.
(4) $27 Million for a Co-Generation Plant.

Approx $62 Million in additional borrowing.

Maybe, just maybe, by paying for road services up front through a tax increase, this will give the City more room over the next 5 years to borrow more money, for these other projects, and of course we will be paying interest on the present and any additional money borrowed.

If you can make an argument to increase taxes to pay for road services up front, then you should also be able to make this argument for other expenditure such as the Cameron St., Bridge, or a performing Art Centre, or a Police Station. Collect the money in taxes before you build these projects, and save a lot more than $250,000.00 in interest payments. You would in fact be saving Millions in interest. However everytime you received a tax bill you would go through the roof.

As they used to say **Something is fishy is Denmark**

I think that the City should repair the roads without borrowing any money to do it., However I think that this money should come from other monies that are floating around the City, such as Gas Transfers, Gambling Income, Fine Money, etc; a cost cutting program at City Hall, something like the University on the Hill is going to go through. In any event it should not come from additional taxes, it should come out of the taxes we are paying at present.

At the very least we can cancel some of the Citys pet projects, and repair the roads.

I called this issue earlier and I will call it again. The City is in financial difficulty. This is one way to ask for more money for a very important issue to many of us without actually saying that everyone's taxes are going up 6%. Don't accept this little ploy to get more of your hard earned money.

We cannot continue to spend money on things that are not as important as roads and air quality.

There must be a point where the leaders in our community stop spending money they don't have. I'm not in favour of increasing my contributions to the running this city one cent. They just better do more with what I have given them. And cut their travel and entertainment budgets. Chester

The other flaw in this ointment on this proposal is the assumtion that you will save money by paying for the road repairs up front with a 4% increase in taxes. The City states that by not borrowing the money they would save approx $250,000.00 in interest payments which COULD be put into road improvements.

The FLAW. This suggestion implies that there is a savings for the City by getting this money through a tax increase, however it fails to mention that if we assume that the additional money that Taxpayers would have to put up would in all likelihood come from their investments and savings, and therefore in addition to paying the $2.3 Million we would loose interest on our money to the tune of what??? Perhaps $250,000.00. and therefore in effect there is no savings to taxpayers only an increase in taxes and a loss in interest on their money.

This is not much more than a shell game. You have to keep your eye on the shell, in order to win, but as it turns out no-body wins because the game is fixed ahead of time.

The only way that we can get these roads fixed without paying additional taxes or lose interest on our personal money is for the City to make these repairs out of present taxes and other monies in the Citys coffers. Then we would pay no taxes, and no interest, and **Walla** we all win. Whats the chances of that happening.

Lets not forget that since the City owns the Cameron St., Bridge this bridge is also a part of the City road system. Are they going to increase our taxes by say 6% to cover the cost of building a new bridge, or will they borrow the $7 Million and pay interest on it. It seems that they will do whatever works the best for them.

It is interesting to note that Mr Bates has not come up in the 4% equation. I would imagine that he has talked to Colin. Or Colin has talked to him.

1. Is Mr Bates trying to control Council with the 4% idea with the hope it will be flatly rejected?

2. Is Mr Bates the same old same old being told by Colin how he's going to do things at City Hall.

How mismanaged our City has been in the past is not news. What would be great news is how do we plan to rectify the delema. I hope that all of you have the dates and times in front of you so that you will not forget to appear and voice your opinions. I expect to see the foyer at the Civic Center will be wall to wall people

Cheers

If the Mayor had not previously totally rejected any suggestion and criticism that our roads were in bad need of repair I would now be tempted to take a more sympathetic view towards an effort to put additional taxes specifically into road repair, but I always thought that it was unbelievable that anyone in charge would deny that a problem existed to any significant degree.

Now I am disbelieving the claim that additional dollars would actually be dedicated without monkey business to the project they were collected for and not be used up for some other glitzy projects such as digital mega display boards and so forth.

Open the books, let's see all the facts and make me a believer!!!

Gee whiz! I would like to borrow some money to get out of debt.

As kimbo says ... see you at the meetings. How about we all wear our name tags ... :-)