Not too sure if this should be a model of success just yet. UNBC still has to come up with their 5 million of the project, probably by taking out a loan. The federal government didn't see it fit to contribute anything to this project even with the 2010 Spend-A-Lympics (Olympics I mean ). UNBC can not afford to run the buildings they have at present and the $300,000 budget quoted in the earlier article is suspect given how much of the UNBC internal services are also being provided to the sports centre for no cost. Services that could be going towards students.

We have yet to see any proposed fee structure for usage of the building.

Once we can see that, and that the general public can use the facility with good access times then I think I would call it a success.

"When UNBC couldn’t afford a sports facility, reps from the city, regional district, university, business and sporting communities formed an ad hoc steering committee to further the cause."

UNBC had a sports centre planned to be built with the original campus some 10 years ago. It could not afford it at the time, so the plan was pared down and they used the CNC gym instead in addtion to the courts and training rooms.

I had not realized that all those groups came together to bail them out at the time. I think there was a decade between A and B. In addtion to that, there was a small matter of the province coming wih $20million in hand as a result of the Olympics. Remember how Ft. St John is using the dollars to fund their indoor speed skating ocal?

Isn't there a bit of a spin here?

Where is the $20million from the province to kick start the celebration of 100 years of the performing arts in BC?

Good questions, Owl.

Spin for sure.

I say let's let CCV run their process, but let's also get some insurance, in the form of lists of supporters and public engagement.

All good comments, but the bottom line is the facility is being built because there was enough support to get it built.

Good on Dezell and everyone else involved......they asked the question"How do we get this done?" not "Why isn`t someone else doing it?"

The reason virtually nothing has happened in arts and culture in Prince George until now is that too many of its population are yahoos who think the gambling joint and bingo halls should be their main source of amusement.

PERAM..whatever.

REASON NOTHING HAS HAPPENED WITH ARTS AND CULTURE IS THAT THE FOLKS IN FAVOR OF THAT INITIATIVE ARE A BUNCH OF CHEAPOS WHO WON'T PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS.

"too many of it's population are yahoos"

Statements like that are exactly the reason that so many of us dislike the "Artsy Fartsy" crowd. The inference being that if you are a sports fan you are a yahoo and have no culture because you don't like, say, opera. This condecending attitude of culteral correctness just won't fly.

I played football and ran track in high school. I coached football and track for three decades. I enjoy watching soccer.

I also have had tickets to Theatre Northwest for over a decade. I enjoy the Festival of Trees.

I spent a year researching"for a living" first nations arts/crafts in north america and Russia.

I enjoy watching my grandson play soccer and I think it is a great activity for youth.

I am neither artsy fartss or a jock.

I am a Canadian and Prince George tax payer who wants both sports and arts facilities, just as long as they will be supported by the public.

I think we canall agree that things get done here whenthereare people willing todothe work of promoting, campaigning, fund raising, etc. Now what was that line again....good things come to those who wait? No! thats not it! Maybe more like ' if you want something done..... '

We are already paying for too many things we don't need. The Multiplex, the art gallery, the civic centre are all under used. This sports centre is going to be another drain on the taxes. If the artsy crowd get their way, we will have another white elephant to pay for with a performing arts centre. Too few people use any of these facilities. I don't know why anyone can't see this. Everyone thinks their "cause" is the best. We should pay down some of the debt before doing anything else. If the arts crowd wants a facility let them pay for it. This stupid sports centre should never have been built either because the only people to use it will be the people going to the university. If anyone else thinks they will get in there, good luck!!!

Perhaps people who feel as duffer does should stop purchasing or using anything that has art involved.

Like food with packaging. Newspapers and magazines. Television. Radio. Music. Movies. Furniture. Clothing. Automobiles. Web sites. Traffic signs. Books. Buildings designed by architects. Advertising of any kind. Any product that has a designed, asthetic component to it at all.

They'll save a lot of money that way. Come to think of it, they won't be able to use those pretty bills and sculptured coins, either.

The fact is we all buy HUGE amounts of art and performance art every day; it's built into the DNA of all the products we purchase, and services we use, the entertainment we consume.

Less and less of the price of a product is based on its raw material and labour costs, and more and more on it's design, packaging and presentation.

The economy isn't what it used to be.

We are all the "artsy crowd;" just look at what sells.

This much I know: Ugly doesn't sell. It's time to understand that and sieze the opportunity to grow and diversify the Creative Economy. It is the foundation of most of the rest of the economy from here on out.

I am not that old to remember U.B.C. getting the War Memorial Gym, but I am old enough to remember people telling me it made the difference to them.

Instead of heading off to Toronto for an education, they stayed in Vancouver. I know damned well that it attracted people from other areas as well.

I would suspect that this will enhance the draw of our University, particularly against Kelowna and T.R.U. regionally, provincially, nationally and even internationally.

As for community use duffer, I don`t know how else to put it, but you are dead wrong buddy.

Other people will be able to use this facility however there will be a charge for the use, and of course there will be a charge for parking.

It is highly unlikely that they will generate enough money to ever make this facility anywhere near being a viable operation.

First off the City and the University have to subsidize it to the tune of $600,000.00 per year.

Secondly they are going to charge all students a fee on their admissions for the use of the facility. They originally projected (In 2004) that they would have 4000 students than would generate $200,000.00. We all know that at best they will have 3500 students so will generate only $175,000.00 in addition they projected that Faculty and staff would generate $70,000 based on 750 people. This number will be downgraded by at least 50 people with the downsizing and therefore at best they would generate $65,000.00

These are just a few **flys in the ointment** I am sure there will be others.

At the end of the day I suspect that subsidies to this facility will be in the range of $1 Million per year.

As usual the planning has been based on misdirected optimism, wishful thinking, flawed research, and the apparent **need** for people in this town to spend taxpayers money like drunken sailors.

The real benefactors are as usual the Contractors, local business for sales, short term employment, and of course more Government workers on the UNBC or City payroll. Whats new?????

Tell you waht Palopu ... let's knock down all the buldings in PG and start over again. We'll use your system and sees where it gets us.

;-)

Dezell ??? Does anyone know what postion he holds, what the job skills are for that position, what he does, and what expertise he brings to the position for what is required of it?

Support? I do not count $20million from the province for another sports facility during the Olympics as local community support.

Does anyone recall seeing 200 people plus or minus (I wish people knew how to count rows of seats and number of seats in a row, multiply the two, and multiply that by an approximate factor of occupancy and come up with a relatively consistent number of people) at the rally to get the sports centre built?

I know, some of you are thinking "what rally"?

Those who are asking that are the ones that are paying attention and get to go to the head of the class for being objective observers.

The others, for playing dumb, get a doctorate of subtle spin. DSS

;-)

As always, it is good to get out of one’s community on occasion, especially to communities of similar size and similar history, to see that the more things appear to be different the more they are actually the same.

In that light, the following posts are going to be excerpts from the Kamloops Daily News, Friday, February 23, 2007 page A4
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40 people attended a panel of area civic leaders assembled at the request of the Art Gallery to envision what lies ahead over the next 50 years for arts, culture and heritage.

Mayor Ella Brown of Logan Lake offered a clearly articulated vision of how her community could evolve while enhancing a quality of life linked to natural surroundings. The planning process has already begun. “WE ARE NOW A COMMUNITY CLOSE TO A MINE, NOT JUST A MINING COMMUNITY”. Concern over eventual closure of the mine led to a loss of residents and arrival of new one. “The change in people has also increased our focus on arts and culture,” she said.
------------------------
A very subtle but important change in thinking. One is a community completely dependant on mining, the other is a community which happens to be near a mine. Such a community is ready to accept other options for its well being and does not simply sit back and say: “no mine, no community.”

Since the new arrivals are those with more leisure time available, the increased focus on the arts appears to be one of several reasonable options.

We must not forget that as time passes, the demographics of PG will also change. We will look more like the communities in the Okanagan and the Island as far as age group and retired and semi-retired people. Many continue with old hobbies of lying on the couch and flipping channels and take up residency in the blue wood box in the ground sooner. Others are more active and take up hobbies typically associated with the arts and will tend to live longer since they remain active.

Another Mayor at the gathering was David Laird of Merritt. He played a tape of the city’s song written and performed by country artist Harley Carmen. He recalled his Chinese hosts singing along on a visit to Merritt’s sister city last year. The town has been focusing increasingly on cultural tourism development, building on the magnetism of Mountainfest.

Laird also noted that civic funding of arts and culture is but one-tenth of that which goes to recreation. “I think you will find that happening in all communities.”

What did I say about similarities? Another mayor visiting China and making connections. Betcha any money that a connection with goode olde “cowboy” music is much more interesting for the Chinese than speed skating. Wonder what Mayor Laird’s press is like in Merritt with respect to China trips?

Speaking of Mountainfest. Does anyone recall the Salmon Valley music festival? I guess we can file it under the “what ever happened to” column. If we dig out a whole bunch of those, we may be able to see if there is a common thread of why something that was popular here, eventually hits the skids. Children’s Festival, Snow Golf, Oktoberfest, Santa Claus parade …..

So, since this is supposed to be about the performing arts in PG, what is happening to Folkfest? Can we make it work in the black and become sustainable for a few decades? Or do all those things come and go? No 50th anniversaries in the works? Why not? Lack of community interest? Community spirit? Support from civic government? Is it an indicator of some fundamental problems in PG’s performing arts community and community interest?

John Ranta, Mayor of Cache Creek, said he is worried about the evident neglect of arts and culture in North America, a sentiment echoed throughout the evening. Art in other cultures plays a much more prominent and integral part in life.

“Where is the vision today in Canada? What are we left with in Canada that in a century or two from now we can look to and say, ‘Hey, there’s our heritage. This is what we did for the future generations of Canada.’”
---------------------------

I think it is time to look at the way people seem to join art with culture so quickly, yet do not join sport with culture, or food with culture, or family make-up with culture, or communication with culture, or business with culture, or industry with culture.

Culture is a very inclusive word generally understood to be the totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

Sitting here in Kelowna as I write this, I note with interest that what Kelowna has named their “cultural district” includes: the casino, arena (Prospera Place), community theatre, art gallery, city hall, law courts, yacht club, museum, memorial arena, Kelowna Health Centre, Rotary Arts Centre, (hint to Rotarians who support soccer fields, water spray parks, skate parks, etc) Kasugai Japanese Gardens, Laurel Packing House (Kelowna’s first heritage building which now houses the wine museum – hey folks, do we have a sawmill and pulp museum?????? See how industry = culture = heritage?) and then all that other commercialized riff raff of craft stores, studios, pubs, restaurants (food as culture). Even the RCMP building is down there. And a local transit bus station.

And where is it all sitting? Not in the vibrant commercial downtown taking up prime commercial space. Not at the University College, nor at the new UBC campus across from the airport, but in what used to be the historic industrial section which was dying, and, like most historic industrial precincts, adjacent to the waterfront.

You are all fighting each other. Why? Think about it a bit. Use your brains. Open your minds rather than closing them. And you really do not have to open them up very wide at all since the Kelowna solution is hardly new. It is a pattern that is repeated over and over again in North American cities.

Finally the article went on to speak about Mayor Terry Lake of Kamloops who confessed his sports bias but challenged the notion that sports and art do not mix.

He noted a tendency to refer to a “Tournament Capital guilt complex” over preferential treatment of funding for sports facilities. “You have to have a strong economy to have strong arts and culture. Without that civic government cannot afford to support the arts.”

Several in the audience challenged the mayors to look harder at how they can foster arts, culture and heritage appreciation as vital components of quality of life.

Darlene Kalynka suggested creative communities ought to adopt more creative and original approaches. “It is important to start thinking originally and going back to your arts community and asking what can we do a little differently?”

BJ Arnason said: “No culture was ever remembered for its sports arenas, rubber tires or electric toothbrushes. They are always remembered for their art.”

Lake challenged that point, citing the Olympic legacy of the Greeks, widely expressed through art. “We are not something we are not. We are a sporting community and that’s something worth celebrating. I’m saying they’re not mutually exclusive.
---------------------------

Whoever BJ Arnason is s/he does not appear to be quite in tune with world cultures. As Lake said, the Greeks of old are associated with the Olympics. At the same time most of us also associate them with theatre, system of government (democracy) and architecture (since some of it still remains to some extent to this day).

The Romans? How about the Coliseum in Rome as well as others they built in every major centre they founded? In several places in Spain and southern France they are still used as bull fighting rings close to 2,000 years later.

Some Roman bridges and aqueducts are still standing and used to this day. Why? Because they were built with concrete, a Roman invention. To this day, Italians are among the leaders in designing and building structures of concrete to the material’s ultimate capacity.

In today’s world, to those of us looking in from the outside, what defines the French culture?

To me it would be food. Fashion?

Italian? Industrial design (Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Ghia). Fashion; opera.

Danish? Danish Furniture.

Swedes? Sexual freedom.

Dutch? Agriculture – tulips and marijuana. ;-)

Swiss – finaciers, watchmakers.

English? – common law, Shakespeare, the monarchy.

Conclusion?

The time for a discussion on the culture of Prince George, including the part the performing arts play in it, has started and we need to continue it. I think it needs to be led by the art community and specifically those invovled in the performing arts, not by those who are tasked with ensuring a vibrant economy.

Also, I think that we should forget about fiberglass bears. They are not part fo our culture. We have to be careful of foreigners coming into our commnity bearing false gifts.

I think we need to recognize our culture of spectator sports, to go back to the times of the original Olympians and Romans as well as the Renaissance which begat David. We need to commission public art to be installed along the grand entrance drive to our modern day Coliseum, the CN Centre. That public art should be fiberglass nude statues of the best players of the Cougars.

;-)

Owl I think you're taking your 'art' a little to far for comfort. The last thing I want to see is Zedno Chara's johnson every time I drive by the multiplex.

Palopu said: "It is highly unlikely that they will generate enough money to ever make this facility anywhere near being a viable operation."

Palopu, the last time I checked the roads didn't make enough money to pay for themselves, but are they a "viable operation?" We would agree they are.

You have to understand that a Centre of the Arts is an INFRASTRUCTURE project that supports and grows an important segement of the economy that happens to impact (at a ever increasing rate) just about every facet of life and business.

As I said before, try to live without buying / using art for a day; you won't even make it out of bed.

We can't diversify and expand our economy in the next 30 years by using 1950's concepts. We are in a different economic age.

Or maybe we should just focus on high tech.

So, what will the future technologists be like? From a Comupterworld article:

"The most sought-after corporate IT workers in 2010 may be those with no deep-seated technical skills at all. The nuts-and-bolts programming and easy-to-document support jobs will have all gone to third-party providers in the U.S. or abroad. Instead, IT departments will be populated with "versatilists" -- those with a technology background who also know the business sector inside and out, can architect and carry out IT plans that will add business value, and can cultivate relationships both inside and outside the company.

That's the general consensus of three research groups that have studied the IT workforce landscape for 2010 -- the year that marks the culmination of the decade of the versatile workforce. What's driving these changes? Several culprits include changes in consumer behavior, an increase in corporate mergers and acquisitions, outsourcing, the proliferation of mobile devices and growth in stored data.

What's more, the skills required to land these future technical roles will be honed outside of IT. Some of these skills will come from artistic talents, math excellence or even a knack for public speaking -- producing a combination of skills not commonly seen in the IT realm."

Also, what does the president of Georgia Tech say?

"The pursuit of science and technology is just as creative a process as poetry and the arts. Both require intensely creative people who can think outside the box, look at the same things everyone else sees and imagine something more, and put the pieces together in new ways."

And what does a human resources manager of HP say?:

"We need more than just the technical skills. The thing we often see missing (in new hires) is the ability to use the right side of their brain, the creative part."

So, where are our kids going to learn, develop and extend those non-IT required "versatilists" skills, those all-important creative thinking skills? Right, at our new Centre for the Arts.

From StatsCan:

Substantial gains in spending on live performing arts

Live performing arts increased their share of average expenditures on culture goods and services between 1999 and 2004. Spending on the live performing arts accounted for 6.1% of the total average household expenditure on culture products, inching up from a 5.2% share in 1999. The average annual expenditure on live performing arts was $89 in 2004, an increase of 32.8% over 1999 (Table 1). After accounting for inflation in admission prices, the increase is 17.1% (Table 2). Not only did households spend more, on average, but slightly more households reported expenditures on live performing arts.

So then...

$89/household x 35,960 households in FFG Regional District = $3,200,440 spent on live performing arts alone. And more households are spending money on live performing arts then before. Who knew?

More from StatsCan:

Canadian households spent an average of $1,450 on culture goods and service.

$1,450 x 35,960 households in FFG Regional District = $52,142,000.

BIG MONEY.

Centre of the Arts ??? ... is that what we want .... or a performing arts centre???

The Rotary Centre for the Arts in Kelowna ws opened in 2002 ... the society which operates it was created in 1994 ... took 8 years to get the money and get it built. About $6 million including a 329 seat theatre ... I toured it with one of the founding members ...
http://www.rotarycentreforthearts.com

I am sure Rotarians in PG will want to know how much they might want to contribute to get the centre in PG named after them the same as the Soccer fields are. :-)

See the size of the RCMP building compared to the Community Theatre (850+ seats) in Kelowna ...

Maybe that is why PG is looking at the PAC needs in PG at this time, they are planning on building it and the RCMP building on the same site on Victoria and 4th ..... :-)

http://www.kelownacommunitytheatre.com/calenders/Black%20Box%20Events/Black%20Box%20Theatre%20Facts.htm

Owl, surely you know the value of creating density and connections, and cost-saving synergies. Studio 2880 needs a new home, badly. Why not take many of the benefits of the "Cultural District" in Kelowna and inject them into downtown PG through a facility for all?

Having a multidisciplinary and multi-usse Arts Centre in one place downtown makes lots of sense, and will be used day in, day out, all day long. Percentage wise, it won't add that much more cost, but the benefit would be huge.

That would free the city to sell those old army barracks (that is what the current Studio 2880 is) and use that money towards the development of the Centre for the Arts.

By the way, did you look backstage at theatre in the Rotary Centre? Brutal. Nice fly tower, zero wing space (2 feet stage right and 8 feet stage left). Not suitable for any dance or musical theatre. A real missed opportunity (narrow minded cost cutting?) Great for theatre, however.

I like your challenge to the local Rotarians; I hope they respond positively.

I am going back tomorrow to take a closer look. Took lots of pics. The youth symphony was practicing for a performance tonight. The layout and size reminds me of a school theatre in Kanata outside Ottawa that was done in late 60's. Great sight lines.

I think mix is more important than density. We have a library, a multi-purpose civic centre, a swimming pool, an art gallery and an ice arena all in one spot. Throw in City Hall, RCMP and two hotels, and we are getting a mix similar to the cultural district in Kelowna. In fact, I think ours is more "dense".

In my view, neither works. It also does not work in Vancouver. BC Place, GM Place, Library, Queen E ... and a new influx of highrise apartments to replace the warehousing which was a great potential for an arts community.

The real arts communities I am familiar with happen in "found space". They need people places. They need cheap spaces. They need spaces with character.

Time will tell whether the purpose designed area of Kelowna will become a "cultural distTh

oops .. this computer has a mind of its own ...

.... time will tell whether the purpose designed area of Kelowna will become a "cultural district". My money is on it not doing that. The entire area is surrounded with expensive condos going up plus another high cost hotel. Those are not creative spaces that I am familiar with. It was the undoing of Yorkville in Toronto.

When I lived in TO, the entire downtown was a "cultural district". It was not the AGO (Art Gallery of Ontario) with the Ontario College of Art right next door and CITY TV at the end of the street, just as much as it is not Granville Island with Emily Carr and the markets in Vancouver and it is not the theatre district in NYNY.

I lived about 8 subway stops from the lower Yonge street theatre district in Toronto. Accross from me lived Charles Pachter, who at that time was doing beautiful wood cut prints for childrens' books. He was renting an old corner variety store space, kept the large glass and entry for a ready made walk-in studio in an Italian part of town. He was not housed in some regimented artificial space. He had his private space to do his art and he had his favourite spots in the city where he could get his inspiration from at will.

For those who may not have heard of Charles Pachter, which I assume to be most, if not all of you, here is what a real Canadian artist looks like, not much different than our own home grown variety who are relatively unknown once we step outside their networks.

http://cpachter.com/biography/bio.html

Where would I look for "found space" in PG? East of Queensway for studio space for starters.

http://www.territory.org/E-BANK/06-may.HTM

If UNBC's managment was smart, they would have privatized the 30 Million sport center and say sell a percentage of it to private sector or other communities to raise money for its own survival and reduce the operational cost.

If one subtracts the new students who entered in newly created programs from UNBC flat enrolment numbers, then one realizes that the enrolments in UNBC's other programs steadily have been going down over the past 5 years (myth of flat enrolment). With UNBC fiscal problems, UNBC cannot afford to creat new programs anymore to offset the students it is losing in its programs and hence the negative trend in enrolments will show itself very soon.

If nothing is done radically in terms of improving the managment in UNBC, then UNBC will be closed down in say 5 years time and NSC will be hanging out there. Hiring new deans for UNBC colleges (especially for CSAM) is the first vital milestone in improvement.

Let's see when UNBC reaches that milestone and whether Prince Geeorge taxpayers and MPs initiate a public inquiry into the mismanagment in UNBC to pressure UNBC to clean its act up, before it is too late.

Shirley Bond, as minister of Education should play her role to put an end to mismanagment in UNBC.

Bohemian > It was those people who drew up the plans for the Sport Centre that showed gross Revenue and Expenditures in the area of $950,0000.00 . Their preliminary plans showed that this facility would pay for its own operation. I merely pointed this out. As usual they fudged the numbers to get the facility built and now will have the taxpayers pick up the tab, for the next 50 years.

There may be a lot of money spent in the community by and for the Arts, however this has been going on for years and years. To suggest that a new PAC would increase the number of dollars being spent or generated to any degree is bogus. At best you would get a minimal increase, and if you were doing it for the money, then you surely wouldnt spend $25 Million to collect $1 Million. If your doing it so that you can put on your best suit, shine your shoes, and preen, then go for it.

The only Art form that I am aware of that generates tons money, employs hundreds of people, and never ceases to entertain the masses, and can always be counted on to get a laugh, is Municipal Government.