I'm surprised that no one in any of Canada's Governments (past or present) has yet come forward with a proposal whereby a cash offer would be made to our First Nations Peoples (each person gets a cheque) in exchange for them willing to extinguish any and all land claims in Canada forever.

Land claim uncertainties are really holding back economic growth in this country.

The cost of administering First Nations issues is absolutely staggering.

While a few people are profitting handsomely from how the present system works, I think it would be best for everyone else if we could finally settle this issue.

I am not surprised that you would make a comment such as that Charles. Very few people really understand the issues and the legalities involved which would rule out such an arrangement.

The entitlement the First Nations have is for the collective, not the individual.

Don't you think that's part of the problem? Why not take everything that is spent on first nations and divide by the number of first nation persons. The first nation could then elect it's own govenrment to "tax" their people to pay for services. Spread the money out amongst the people rather then having it in the hands of a few. Let first nations people decide for themselves what level of government services and taxation they want. Plus it take Ottawa out of the picture.

You're right on land claims the land should be negotiated for collectively. However ownership should switch to individual families to hold, buy, sell, build, invest or do whatever is in their best interests to do with it.

Collectively the problem is they have it so good why get off the tit. We have a failure to launch.

Some people from a foreign country come into BC, occupies it in an apparent "benevolent way" .. eventually BSess everyone into moving out of Vancouver and Victoria and all the other communities and relocates them into spaces such as Wells, Ootsa Lake, Pine pass, Adams Lake, etc. spread malaria throughout the population and does not provide the drugs required to eradicate it, kills off half the population …. Then 100 years later says we did wrong, we apologize and we will give you each $20,000 for the land, belongings and ability to make a living we confiscated from you.

Would you individually like to settle and take the $20,000 even though some of your ancestors had a $2million condo in Vancouver, others a $15,000 tarpaper shack on squatter's property around Anahim, or do you think it would be more equitable if there was a communal settlement made and you decide as a group how money was to be distributed the same as we now decide communally how we are to be taxed and how we spend that tax money?

And if you think that is far fetched, then just think what happened to this province from about 1800 onwards, especially as we got into the late 1800's and onward. And if you do not understand that, then I cannot help you.

BTW, CSTC is giving up negotiating as a tribal council and will be going at it as separate tribes. Apparently an understanding is in place with Canfor which will give them something like 20% of the jobs in the woods.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070331.wbc-carrier0331/BNStory/National

To quote part of the article in case the link does not work:
“The Carrier Sekani Tribal Council says it will notify provincial and federal ministers next week that it will scrap its 13-year-old effort within a month. That move comes after the council has decided that the negotiations are not just a waste of money, but may also be costing its 5,000 members a chance to secure their fair share of revenue from natural resources.
In November, the federal and provincial auditors-general warned that progress in treaty negotiations between B.C., Ottawa and 50 separate aboriginal groups had been so slow that the talks were in danger of being overrun by “the changing legal, economic and political environments.”
The deal with Canfor is not yet finalized, but Chief Luggi said the current draft calls for the 5,000 members of the Carrier Sekani to receive a package of benefits in exchange for giving a green light to Canfor activity on its 76,000 square kilometres of traditional lands. Among those benefits are a payment of $8-million to $10-million over 10 years into an education fund, and twin guarantees that the Carrier Sekani will be granted 20 per cent of jobs and logging contracts for Canfor activities on their lands.”

As a community PG sould be eyeing up their lands north east of town for industrial development. Say the first 150 eligible voters to come and collect a check for $XX dollars validates the purchase through majority rights and distribution of funds by the collective....

I believe I said that would happen sometime back.

Owl you apologize too much. Sh!t happens. How has the government treated you, or your ancestors any better?

My opinion is that Canada as a country and Canadians are making a very noble and earnest effort to compensate for what happened in the colonial past.

Have the native people of Middle and South America ever received any compensation for the genocides inflicted on them by the European powers, especially Spain?

If Spain would be forced to repay the Mexican aboriginals for the gold and silver it looted - there wouldn't be any poor Mexican village people trying to scratch a basic living from the dusty soil.

The cost of the human suffering inflicted on them can never be calculated.

THEY don't receive a monthly income check, free dental and medical coverage and a free university education.

We, by contrast, are willingly addressing our responsibilities for the past, present and future.

Let's help the First Nations people become self-sufficient! It is an ethical and moral obligation that comes with being a civilized people.

Diplomat,

What monthly income are you talking about? I'm a status indian and the only monthly income I receive, after taxes, is the one I earn working.

Honestly, the way some of you folks talk you think you knew about A) the entire history of Aboriginal people for all 500 nations in the Americas, pre-contact included B) The entire depth and scope of every Supreme Court ruling on Aboriginal rights for the last 30 years, and C) a complete and thorough understanding of the complexity of the idiocy that is Indian and Northern Affairs Canada.

Monthly income indeed!

"We, by contrast, are willingly addressing our responsibilities for the past, present and future."

The situation in much of Central and South America are considerably different, simply by virtue of the considerable intermarriages plus the number who are indigenous populations, especially Mexico and countries like Chile.

Mexican ethnic population:
Amerindian – 30%
Amerindian-Spanish – 60%
White – 9%
Other – 1%

Chile
Amerindian – 3%
White-Amerindian – 95%
Other – 2%

I think if Canada’s population were 60% Metis, and 30% First Nations we would have as considerably different situation. We are not talking about compensation from the mother countries of England and France. We are talking about a recognition of a very small part of the population, much of which has been settled for some time in the east, although in some, if not a considerable number of cases, perhaps not all that equitably.

It is the west, especially BC where the problem with treaties lies. There are virtually none here. That is another thing people here do not seem to recognize. Westerners in general do not even understand there own country.

bingo Big_B ... even though I recognize some of what you speak about, I certainly have much more to learn.

There is an entire awareness raising effort which has to occur and it will take more than one generation to change.

Look at South Africa for instance, and some of the other countries in Africa. Soem are doing quite well at it, others are not. And, that too, is not surprising. Experiences are different and not everyone, whether individual, collective, or country fits into the same mold.

This is on a tourism web page about South Africa. It speaks about good intent to move on from what actions by settlers/invaders from other countries have historically caused. It will take generations. But it is there for all the word to see. The process is becoming very much transparent.

I would like to think that BC has recently been moving in the same direction, albeit that the affected First Nations population is considerably less than the situation in South Africa.

http://www.southafrica-travel.net/pages/e_bevoelk.htm

"What monthly income are you talking about? I'm a status Indian and the only monthly income I receive, after taxes, is the one I earn working."

Sorry you misunderstood! I was talking about the poor descendants of the original inhabitants of Mexico, not you! I have no idea of what benefits you are getting, if any.

As well, they are not being offered any redress for past conquest, no treaties, no land, no support and no compensation from Spain or the ruling class which has ruled the country ever since.

It also owns most of the country.

Diplomat ...

when you wrote: "THEY don't receive a monthly income check, free dental and medical coverage and a free university education."

The capitalization and other context imply to any reasonable reader that others do receive such benefits. Since the context is in comparison to the Canuck First Nations, the implication is that First Nations do receive that. Why else would you write about something Amerindians in Mexico do NOT receive. There are many things they do not receive.

Who is the “it” that owns most of the country? And what is the country that it owns most of? Are you referring to Spain owning most of Mexico?

Actually, when it comes to property ownership, Mexico has laws restricting the ownership of property by foreigners, other than through a trust, in perimeter areas for instance – near borders and oceans – 50 km from the coast.

To understand how and when the original inhabitants were taken over and marginalized I would recommend a study of the conquest of Mexico.

*It* is the ruling class which is clearly predominantly of mostly European and some mixed ancestry.

In fact, the unemployment and underemployment statistics there tell a story and the benefits that we are accustomed to with our income assistance safety net are virtually non-existent there.

(I am not going to re-state what they are).

That is why the northward migration in the millions has been going on for many decades.

I will leave it at that.

Owl it is an insult to British Columbia to compare our situation to extreme in South Africa. Not even close. I would not call their current situation getting better either. One look at the murder, rape, human rights abuse, and land expropriation rates in that country that fall along ethnic divisions and it is down right going backwards in civility.

I think for that kind of situation it was too much to soon. Their people are not educated to a sufficient level to make informed political decisions. They should have migrated voting rights based on education qualifications that allowed for a smoother transition between apartheid and full blow democracy. IMO South Africa insult us for what we did to liberate South Africa with what they allow to go on in their own country and what they allow their neighbour in Zimbabwe to do with their blessing.

South Africa is a model for chaos and social rape of a nation. Not a model to be emulated and praised.

Diplomat I agree NAFTA was a huge failure designed to allow the banking class to rape our manufacturing base through wage and environment arbitrage. A deal designed out of greed to use the Mexican people to enrich the banking class to the detriment of the working class in Canada.

I support fair trade where we are protected from wage and environment and human rights and tax obligation arbitrage designed to cheat Canadians for the benefit of a few bankers.

I think the NAFTA gig has just about run its course. The rapid increase in profits from the cost saving in wage and environment have nearly realized all the false gains of lowest common denominator that they can achieve. I think we are now in the early stages of an inflationary correction that will adjust our standards of living downward to reflect the newly created reality.

Actually Owl, i do think it is far fetched. For one thing, MOST of us , as human beings have displacement in our pasts. Its not like being moved off our land, its more likeour fathers having been moved off our land. or our fathers fathers. What you seem to be saying is that the amount offered isnt enough. I wonder what you think enough will be? I wonder also if you see nothing of advantage offered by western society? Shall we calculate what that is worth and the take that off the settlement? I dont have any answers to these questions and i am not about to suggest you dont even understand their own country. I will say that this is aquestion of negotiation and the amount settled upon will have to be something we can afford, or I will not help pay it. What exactly that sum is is up to the govt negotiators to decide.
The native reps have got to decide on how much it is worth to continue in limbo as far as treaties are concerned. For all people and cultures there has to come a time when people start to get on with it and stop looking at past wrongs as a source of future revenue. I hope the band makes the best deal it can and that it then moves on to help its people get in on the benefits of living in what is, for most of us, the best country in the world. Those benefits are there for them, regardless of what people might say.

Chad, you are bringing up NAFTA again. Here is a bit of history: ...The signing of NAFTA also resulted in the removal of Article 24 in the Mexican Constitution which previously had guaranteed land reparations to indigenous groups throughout Mexico. The start of the 1994 Zapatista revolution happened to coincide with the coming into effect of NAFTA...

"What you seem to be saying is that the amount offered isnt enough."

Nope.... I have not the faintest clue what the deal is in detail. I also do not care as long as they agree to it. It is theirs to make, not mine.

I don’t get a vote on “my” side of the deal. Should we be given the opportunity to vote? Yes. If we were given the vote and we had to meet the 70% rule, would there ever be a deal? I don’t know.

“I wonder what you think enough will be?”

I have not got the faintest. Nor does it matter. I am not the one who has to be satisfied.

“I wonder also if you see nothing of advantage offered by western society?”

From my viewpoint of western society? I have a TV, a car, a sofa, a stove, some magazines, a computer.

People in western society kill people in eastern societies, make slaves of African societies, rescue oil fields and leave the Somalies and Rwandans to their own devices since there is no oil.

What is the balance? I really do not know. It is hard for an insider to make an objective judgment. We have material goods, restrict access to our country to the rich and well educated to the extent that there are warnings that we will no longer have people to work in manufacturing sectors soon.

Unlike the First Nations, we are able to stop the hordes from entering this country and changing our social systems and we do it to the best of our abilities because we are afraid of our lifestyle changing. Does anyone see the irony in this?.

What value is the living of 4 million lives in 21st century suburban environments in BC versus the lives of say 10,000 15th century Salish on the coast? I am not about to judge. It may very well be tht Mother Nature may be the final judge of that.

“Shall we calculate what that is worth and the take that off the settlement?” …..

Now you have put your finger on the very problem. You think it has more value. They may think it has less value. They may wish to be compensated for the loss of value.

Someone takes the nice log cabin you built with your own hands with all its imperfections and gives you an ultramodern glass house. The value of each is in the eyes of the beholder.

In my view it is presumptuous and condescending to think that the value you place on something is the same as the value someone else places on the same thing.