If he wanted to be serious he would be talking about the tenures, and the provincial ownership of the resource and the future likelyhood Canfor could be short fiber as a result of their cost cutting measures.

What a slap in the face to the existing workers "that the mill can be more porductive and more efficient." (sorry just quoting it as above). So right now the workers are not giving it their all ? Poor choice of words. Any major organization strives for efficiency and to say it like that sounds like the workers are not at present.

haha, have you ever been to a canfor mill. They have more ways of getting out of work than a kid has ways of getting out of doing homework. What a joke.

Everyone knows that union workers are the most inefficient workers. Unions have made workers into big babies...

Yeah get rid of em.

Check out what a faller makes in Georgia, Missouri, North Carolina - or what a guy in a sawmill makes. It's minimum wage baby all the way. That's what happens without a union/

First I want to comment on the quote:

‘Bell says from this point forward he won't be discussing the matter with media I will be talking directly to the people of Mackenzie’

This is becoming the practice of many political people – we won’t let the public know what is happening. How do you thing we get our cause known or find out information – it’s through the media! The only time these politician want to use it is when they have something that is positive and looks good on them – but if its negative, we’ll keep it under the carpet. So who are you going to let know what is happening, just the Canfor people – I am not employed by Canfor, but I do live in Mackenzie and would like to know what is going on with our town and not just through the rumour mill. We elect these people and we want to be informed of what they are doing!!! This is bull….. and the public as well as the communities should be demanding that this information is made public to the media so everyone knows what is going on. How dare you insult us like this Mr. Bell!!!!

I was also waiting for someone to come out with “it’s the workers fault” and now I see it!
This will take committments from the people in Mackenzie that the mill can be more productive and more efficient

How much time have you spent working in the mills Mr. Bell – not just a walk through with a glance at a machine and then going for lunch with the big boys, but actually working those machines lately? I do work with those machines and I also know you can only do so much with a machine that keeps getting a bandage put on it and then when it falls apart it’s the workers fault. When the company orders cut backs they also include cutting back on parts – like a simple belt, that would only take a few minutes to replace, but because of a cut back takes two hours down time to find a replacement. And also to inform some of the people who are so anti union and feel that we are nothing but lazy, I will grant you there are some lazy employees all around the world who would never give it their all regardless of what they did – doesn’t matter whether they are union or not – but quit painting us all with the same brush!!! We have unions to protect ourselves in these mills….they are dangerous and without unions (in some cases) none of the safety precautions would ever be put in place and arms and legs would be lost because of it and that is just one of the issues that unions cover. As is, people are still getting killed in our mills!

We have a lot of things against us - high dollar, low lumber prices, tariff, bug kill, company’s flooding the market - these are just a few of them. The other thing is the Forestry laws have changed which are also effecting and enabling these closures to take place. One big one is the decision to allow logs to be moved to wherever they want, nothing is stopping these companies from shutting down a mill and shipping the logs from that area to another area/mill (right now the raising gas prices are helping us with this matter) - at least before the logs were tied to the area. The other thing for people to keep in mind is the amount of raw logs that are being shipped outside of BC, but because few people speak up about these practices or the politicians decide they are not going to talk to the media anymore, they just get bigger and bigger until mills get closed down and we stand there in shock and watch our jobs disappear!

My heart goes out to all the people who may be/are looking at being unemployed in the near future. I have read sites where the people are calling down the management at the mill as well....tell me does it cross anyone’s minds that they will also be out of a job and just as concerned about their family and future? Reading the above article almost gives me the feeling that we’re being played a game with and what I mean by that is - Well if we put this mill back on line you had better realize how powerful we are and how much we control your lives and we just showed you so you had better do what we want…. Its like they are spanking our hands and teaching us a lesson (I am sure it’s not this way but it kind of feels like it)

I have to remind people that Canfor is not the only mill in our community, there are other mills as well, and I am resenting hearing that once Canfor leaves we will be a ghost town. Yes, the closure is going to hurt this town horribly, but this town will not shrivel up and die. There is still a lot of people who will be working and some families will decide to stay around while the spouse goes out of town to work. Many people follow this practice already by living in Prince George while employed by one of the Mackenzie mills.

The reality of it is, that once the trades-people leave it will be difficult to find replacements if the mill opens up again. I am hoping this will encourage the town of Mackenzie, as well as the people, to look at more opportunities for the community so they don't have to depend on the mills for their livelihood. They need to keep an open mind, we don’t always need companies that only employ hundreds of people – if a company wants to come in, but will only employ 30 people all the power to them, 30 people employed is better then 30 unemployed!

This may be the opportunity for people to take advantage of the situation and go through the EI Education Program and get a trade/education under their belt - as the government keeps saying we are so short on trades people that they have to bring in immigrants to fill the void. I suggest to Pat Bell that he goes above and beyond to speak up for people who want to do this so that they can get as much financial assistance as possible and do something to get companies to sponsor/support apprenticeship programs, maybe they can work with the unions as well to get more programs going - I would think it would be cheaper then bringing in immigrants. I know there are some programs in place, but the companies as well as unions only allow their full time people to get apprenticeships, cost is another part of the problem on the company’s side as well as the students who have to pay for a lot of the expenses out of their own pockets! There is also the problem of people not knowing that these opportunities are out there. I know BC used to have a program that gave 50% off their provincial student loan if you carried a certain grade – is that still available? Is there the possibility for Northern BC to be the leaders in supporting and organizing training options for people who find themselves out of work? Not only will it help our area, our province but also our country!


Mills have been closing all over the province for a while now and we don't know if it's going to get any better. I've heard people say it is a way of weeding out the weak - but that doesn't make the family who is trying to figure out what they are going to do feel any better.

I don't know what the solution is - wish I did, but the government doesn't help matters with their actions and new laws. We hear from the MLA's when the mills close down, but we all know that nothing is going to come out of it! The end result is the workers are the ones left to suffer the consequences!

First I want to comment on the quote:

‘Bell says from this point forward he won't be discussing the matter with media I will be talking directly to the people of Mackenzie’

This is becoming the practice of many political people – we won’t let the public know what is happening. How do you thing we get our cause known or find out information – it’s through the media! The only time these politician want to use it is when they have something that is positive and looks good on them – but if its negative, we’ll keep it under the carpet. So who are you going to let know what is happening, just the Canfor people – I am not employed by Canfor, but I do live in Mackenzie and would like to know what is going on with our town and not just through the rumour mill. We elect these people and we want to be informed of what they are doing!!! This is bull….. and the public as well as the communities should be demanding that this information is made public to the media so everyone knows what is going on. How dare you insult us like this Mr. Bell!!!!

I was also waiting for someone to come out with “it’s the workers fault” and now I see it!
This will take committments from the people in Mackenzie that the mill can be more productive and more efficient

How much time have you spent working in the mills Mr. Bell – not just a walk through with a glance at a machine and then going for lunch with the big boys, but actually working those machines lately? I do work with those machines and I also know you can only do so much with a machine that keeps getting a bandage put on it and then when it falls apart it’s the workers fault. When the company orders cut backs they also include cutting back on parts – like a simple belt, that would only take a few minutes to replace, but because of a cut back takes two hours down time to find a replacement. And also to inform some of the people who are so anti union and feel that we are nothing but lazy, I will grant you there are some lazy employees all around the world who would never give it their all regardless of what they did – doesn’t matter whether they are union or not – but quit painting us all with the same brush!!! We have unions to protect ourselves in these mills….they are dangerous and without unions (in some cases) none of the safety precautions would ever be put in place and arms and legs would be lost because of it and that is just one of the issues that unions cover. As is, people are still getting killed in our mills!

We have a lot of things against us - high dollar, low lumber prices, tariff, bug kill, company’s flooding the market - these are just a few of them. The other thing is the Forestry laws have changed which are also effecting and enabling these closures to take place. One big one is the decision to allow logs to be moved to wherever they want, nothing is stopping these companies from shutting down a mill and shipping the logs from that area to another area/mill (right now the raising gas prices are helping us with this matter) - at least before the logs were tied to the area. The other thing for people to keep in mind is the amount of raw logs that are being shipped outside of BC, but because few people speak up about these practices or the politicians decide they are not going to talk to the media anymore, they just get bigger and bigger until mills get closed down and we stand there in shock and watch our jobs disappear!

My heart goes out to all the people who may be/are looking at being unemployed in the near future. I have read sites where the people are calling down the management at the mill as well....tell me does it cross anyone’s minds that they will also be out of a job and just as concerned about their family and future? Reading the above article almost gives me the feeling that we’re being played a game with and what I mean by that is - Well if we put this mill back on line you had better realize how powerful we are and how much we control your lives and we just showed you so you had better do what we want…. Its like they are spanking our hands and teaching us a lesson (I am sure it’s not this way but it kind of feels like it)

I have to remind people that Canfor is not the only mill in our community, there are other mills as well, and I am resenting hearing that once Canfor leaves we will be a ghost town. Yes, the closure is going to hurt this town horribly, but this town will not shrivel up and die. There is still a lot of people who will be working and some families will decide to stay around while the spouse goes out of town to work. Many people follow this practice already by living in Prince George while employed by one of the Mackenzie mills.

The reality of it is, that once the trades-people leave it will be difficult to find replacements if the mill opens up again. I am hoping this will encourage the town of Mackenzie, as well as the people, to look at more opportunities for the community so they don't have to depend on the mills for their livelihood. They need to keep an open mind, we don’t always need companies that only employ hundreds of people – if a company wants to come in, but will only employ 30 people all the power to them, 30 people employed is better then 30 unemployed!

This may be the opportunity for people to take advantage of the situation and go through the EI Education Program and get a trade/education under their belt - as the government keeps saying we are so short on trades people that they have to bring in immigrants to fill the void. I suggest to Pat Bell that he goes above and beyond to speak up for people who want to do this so that they can get as much financial assistance as possible and do something to get companies to sponsor/support apprenticeship programs, maybe they can work with the unions as well to get more programs going - I would think it would be cheaper then bringing in immigrants. I know there are some programs in place, but the companies as well as unions only allow their full time people to get apprenticeships, cost is another part of the problem on the company’s side as well as the students who have to pay for a lot of the expenses out of their own pockets! There is also the problem of people not knowing that these opportunities are out there. I know BC used to have a program that gave 50% off their provincial student loan if you carried a certain grade – is that still available? Is there the possibility for Northern BC to be the leaders in supporting and organizing training options for people who find themselves out of work? Not only will it help our area, our province but also our country!


Mills have been closing all over the province for a while now and we don't know if it's going to get any better. I've heard people say it is a way of weeding out the weak - but that doesn't make the family who is trying to figure out what they are going to do feel any better.

I don't know what the solution is - wish I did, but the government doesn't help matters with their actions and new laws. We hear from the MLA's when the mills close down, but we all know that nothing is going to come out of it! The end result is the workers are the ones left to suffer the consequences!

We really didnt need a double header on the last post. Reading the first one took a while. I agree with most of what *Thoughts on the issue** had to say, however I think people have to do some serious thinking.

Firstly although this is a Canfor Mill that is being closed and Canfor Management is taking this hit, the fact of the matter is, is that Jim Pattison, and an American investment firm **TAM** have the controlling interest in Canfor. They just recently changed out the board of directors and got rid of Jim Shepard the CEO. They have already stated that there will be further announcements, and you can rest assured that they will come.

Those people who have lost their jobs in Mackenzie can be thankful that there are jobs available through out the Country ie; Dawson Creek, Grande Prairie, Tumbler Ridge, Ft St John, Ft Mcmurray, and Prince George. In addition for the first time in years you have some employment taking place in Prince Rupert and will also have some taking place Northwest of Terrace.

If this closure had taken place during the early eighties these people would have had to leave British Columbia to find work, and even then they might have been out of luck.

I suggest that they find employment in some other area of the Province, or Alberta, as soon as possible, and make their move. They have no obligation to concern themselves as to whether Canfor will have a trained workforce available if and when it restarts this mill. The sooner they get re=located the sooner they can get their lives back in order. Some members of the family will probably have to stay behind for the first year or so to look after the houses, etc; but eventually everything will fall into place. To stay in Mackenzie without any gaurantee that they will find work, and run out their EI Payments, and then have to make the move would not be the smartest thing to do.

There are going to be big changes in the forest industrie in BC and I suggest that the sooner some people get into a different way of earning a living the better.

Dont expect much from a Politician, as you will only be disapointed.

Pat Bell saying he will have no more announcements by the media. What a pathetic old corn cob.

Didn't mean to double post - pure accidental, I'm hoping the administration will remove one of them.

So, the effects may trickle down to prince george after all!

In the Free Press they say Canfor is looking at trimming 25% of its payroll. IMO that could mean as many as another 600-800 jobs which would be 2-3 more sawmills with another 1200-1500 bush jobs.

It sure would be comforting to know something is in the pipeline that could replace 2000 high paying forestry jobs in the PG area.

I talked to a guy the other day selling whole log cants to the states. He says business is booming and his portable home mill is putting out 6-7 b-trains of cants a week. Problem is there is nothing for jobs created with that kind of export.

Owl could I please ask you a question about a recent post of yours? The post which is on page 2 of this site (in the article by Ben - Now what was that you were saying, is in the next paragraph. I am asking the question in this thread which is related to the topic at hand because you are more likely to see it.)

"We are in an employee’s market. Workers wanted signs all over the place in the West, whether North or South. People have choices as they have not had for some decades. Given the demographics of Canada, that will likely remain for at least a decade, if not longer."

I agree the upcoming retirement of our massive baby boom generation will be a positive for people entering the job market in the near future.

My question is about your statement "we are in an employees's market". How much of this do you attribute being due to the fact that the debt levels in this country are skyrocketing. I was recently on the Statistics Canada web site, where it says the m3 money supply has grown by 36% over the last 4 years. This is an annual increase of 9% per year over the last 4 years. Their site only gives the information for the last 4 years. The GDP in Canada has only grown by about 3% annually over the last 4 years


For the information of other reading this post, the definition of money
supply is as follows "The entire quantity of bills, coins, loans, credit, and other liquid instruments in a country's economy."

I think our present booming economy is a ponzi scheme which is totally dependent upon the Bank of Canada willing to increase the countries' money supply at a very high rate and upon the people, businesses and governments in this country willing to borrow this money. I think that when this debt bubble finally bursts there is going to be a very painful adjustment process in this country (as well as in most of the other countries in the world which also have central banking systems).

I think it very common for the average household to receive several debt solicitations( by phone or by mail) every week. I think it is very common for our retail sales industry to offer deals like 0% financing and no payments required for many months (and somethimes years)"



To Opinion250.com and/or Peter Ewert. I really hope you consider doing a story on this topic of debt and how our financial system works. In my opinion this is our countries biggest problem. I consider it unfortunate that the mainstream media choses not to report on this story. Ben I applaud how you stick up for the little guy. This is one story you must do.

I do do not think our big banks, (as well as the rest of our financial industry) would like to see the mainstream media report on how our financial system reaaly works. The biggest 5 (or 6) banks in Canada made a net profit of 19 billion dollars last year. I think our big banks have a really good thing going because they are literally able to create money out of thin air and charge interest on it.

In the last paragraph of my post, (along with a couple of typing mistakes), I accidentally left some words out of the final sentence.

The final sentence should have read "I think our big banks have a really good thing going because they are literally able to create money out of thin air, loan it out, and charge interest on it.

I think the only thing that kept the mills running this past year was the fact they got back a nice chunk of change from the softwood tariffs rebate. Nowadays, the new tariffs are still there, but no more rebates.
With the market being poor and the dollar high canfor is going to do what it must do to protect its bottom line and that invariably hurts people. Canfor is owned by people who only care about the bottom line so their decision show they view the people of Mackenzie as expendable...not people at all..just numbers on a payroll.

Mr. Pattison is a major shareholder in canfor (no surprize!) and being a buddy with the premier you can bet that Mr. Bell's "efforts" are just window dressing to get votes for the next election.

Maybe he and the other MLA's would forgo their 29% payraise and donate it to the sofftwood lumber fund to assist the families that are going to be impacted by these events / downturns in the forest industry.... Not that it's gonna happen....they won't even give funding to programs for abused children in this province yet they'll give themselves a 29% raise. Time for an election!

#1
I don't understand why the MLA pay raise didn't go towards financial assistance for qualified candidates rather than a pay raise for existing candidates if the problem was ability to attract quality candidates. The biggest problem with our system is that only compromised candidates funded by multinationals and unions have any chance of being elected.

#2 I agree with Charles that the M3 problem is Canada's biggest threat to the next generation of Canadians. In the United States they stopped publishing their M3 numbers in 2003 because they have more than doubles the money supply in only a few short years. It is the source to the housing bubble and is designed by the bankers to secure the vast majority of the economies assets through debt financing where they will in the end own the economy when they decide to hold back lending. No different than what they did prior to the US civil war under a prior and now discredited central banking system.

I am a residence of Mackenzie and have been for over 16 years.. Mackenzie is a great community. It is a wonderful place to raise your children. This town will survive.. We have been through LONG strikes in the past and our town survived...The media keeps saying that Canfor is shutting down permanently and this is scaring a lot of people. That is not what they said.. Indefinite is not forever.. It could be a month or a few months or even a year.. None of us know..My husband works for Canfor and we are not uprooting ourselves. If Canfors Tradesman do move on to other jobs well they will just have to hire some more when they re open.. Not all of them will leave. Many tradesman have wives in this town that hold very good jobs. The lumber industry has been going through bad times all over Canada.. not just here in Mackenzie. Who knows what the future is for Canfor Mackenzie. None of us know. It could end up being sold. There are alot of possibilities! All I know is don't think our town is going to be ghost town just because of Canfors decisions. It will be here for a long time to come! Oh and one other thing, I am not fond of the liberals one bit but I can say one thing, at least our MLA is trying to talk to Canfor. I know of other communities in BC , Barrier for example (when Tolko burned down) the MLA of their area never came forward to try to help at all. So I will give him that much.. As for our town, quit panicking everyone.. Things will work out!!!