And just like that the taxpayers are stuck paying for the Performing Arts Centre building and up keep of another arty building. Maybe we can put the Performing Arts Centre in the pellet plant building, once city council forces them to close up shop and leave the city.

A Greenhouse Gas Emissions reduction program should start with that left turn signal on 15th on to Central Street. The turn should be available while the through light is green. Lots of poor planning and waste of fuel happening at traffic lights.

The Rod and Gun Club, Should ask for 150,000 dollars to study if a pistol range could be built down town, or if the 2 ranges downtown could be reopened...A lot more people would use the ranges then would use the Performing Arts centre, Hell the Performing Arts People can not support their own study, and WE AS TAXPAYERS will have to support the building forever, If You noticed the Rod and Gun Club Built their own ranges, Support their own Blds and ranges, With their OWN money, No cost to Taxpayers....Why can not the Performing Arts People...The answer only a FEW people Care about Performing Arts. But they got Council ear....Performing Arts get your hands out of my Pockets... Support your own Lifestyle.

How many members are there of the rod and gun club?

The rod and gun club is only open during the summer months, so during the rest of the year, they will be most welcome at the Performing Arts Centre, as long as they leave their guns at home...

@YDPC

And just like that the taxpayers are stuck paying for a whole lot of things.

@Don

Lots of things like ice rinks and swimming pools and civic centres they might use rarely or not at all. Why don't you ask your "Lifestyle" question to the people that use those facilities? Should we close them down because the "taxpayers" are stuck paying for those? Should they have to "pay their way" and build their own facilities?

Furthermore, as I've pointed out before, most involved in the arts pay their own way on a daily basis - private dance and music lessons studios, etc. (as do martial arts clubs, btw, one of the few sports that do). From a industry sector perspective, many more are employed producing and supporting creative content and art than sports and leisure. There is good economic sense to invest in creative infrastructure.

Have you forgotten it's the taxpayers who vote, and they voted for these people (electing them over and over again)?

Maybe it's not the "taxpayers" who are stuck.

I agree with Don 100%. By the way, how many members are there in the performing arts club? How much is it going to cost the rest of us that have no interest in this at all? If it can be self supporting it should be built by a private enterprise. No one is crazy enough to think this won't be another drain on the taxpayer's money. I don't want to hear the crap about if we have a performing arts center it will draw "professionals" here. People come here for different reasons such as the relative ease of travelling to work compared to larger centers, the outdoor recreation available, reasonable housing prices, etc. We have enough buildings now that we have to look after. We do not need another one.

Rod and gun Club open 365 days a year. And never ask a penny from taxpayers. Privatise the Pools, Ice Rinks, Civic Centres, Baseball Parks, CN Centre... LET USERS PAY....Pay for your Lifestyle choices, Out of your own pocket, not the Taxpayers pocket.

I am curious as to why "city staff" would recommend this?
Who are they, and why do they actually think this is a worthwhile expenditure?
Silly me...I always thought that we lived in a democracy where the taxpayers decided these issues?
This needs an explanation by council as to the reasons and logic behind it.

I am curious as to why "city staff" would recommend this?

Maybe because Donny Basserman is a big push for the arts. In a photo at an arts council meeting our Donny sat at the head table. And our Mare is also an artsy type. At least he likes to come across as such.And we all know he's a great actor.

Cheers

Thanks Bridge!
That's about what I figured.

Well I never use Kin 1, 2 or 3 or the CN Centre so please take my tax portion that supports those buildings and put it towards the Performance Centre. ( I make this comment as tongue in cheek about the comments above about why should we pay for Performance Centre versus other Civic buildings ).

Any good city needs a variety of facilities to appeal to the various tax payers. It is too bad that money was spent on the Civic Centre and the Playhouse without proper planning or customer understanding in either case. The two facilities could have been combined as one and be more useful.

Lunarguy, those buildings should have been put to a referendum like this one should be in my opinion. Also, you said it, the Civic Centre and Playhouse were poorly planned and should not have been built either. It seems to me that the Civic Centre was voted down, but the powers to be at that time didn't listen to the people anyway. It was just another occasion where the vocal minority got their wishes because of who they were.

Lunarguy is bang on...

I've not been to the Four Seasons Pool in more than 10 years...and have no desire to ever use it. I know NO ONE that uses it. I've not been to the aquatic centre in the past six years...too many kids, not enough cleaning staff. I don't play soccer or hockey. When I go to CN Centre I pay a high price for the concert. Some of these concerts are hampered because of the CN Centre's shortcomings, i.e., it was built for hockey, not concerts.

Add together the number of people who go to Judy Russell's and all the other dance studios, Theatre Northwest, Cn Centre concerts, and all the other performing arts and I bet it would be more than the Cougars' attendance...

There is no way the City is going to blow 150 grand on a *study* without having already decided that it will be built - let's face it, it looks like a done deal!

If city staff recommends it the Councilors will be reluctant to not vote in favour because a vote against will be construed as a vote against the Performing Arts and the sophistication and prestige that goes with them, on the surface, anyways.

Why is it that the main opponents of this project seem to think that the only people that go to see theatre (etc.) are the rich/snobby/elite caricatures you seem to portray? You seem to think that the 'working common man' (whatever that is) is against this project, and only the "sophisticated" people are interested. Funny, because I haven't seen a whole lot of furs and pearls attending the concerts, plays, and many other performances I've seen in the high school auditorium; amateur theatre playhouse; or the ice arenas and gyms we currently have available for performances in this city. I know plenty of people wearing workboots & jeans who attend these events, and they are just as "sophisticated" and "snobby" as any other theatre goer...in other words, they are the "common man".

Buzz, you are assuming a lot when you think you know what other people are thinking. I am not thinking what you think I am thinking.

What I am thinking is chewed up curbstones, sidewalks that are too narrow, cracked and sloped too steeply towards the road, the ones that have power poles right in the middle of them (for 26 years) and still do not slope smoothly to enable everyone to use them, like parents with prams and those in wheelchairs.

I am thinking cracks and potholes, unkempt ditches, lack of pedestrian overpasses etc, etc.

I am not going to make a long list, but I wouldn't run out of material for an hour or two.

All these things have a low sophistication and prestige factor, whereas not voting for a brand new Performing Arts center may indicate a lack of support for the *finer things* in life.

There are other important basic things too, like the ones I outlined above and perhaps borrowing 30 million dollars for a PAC can wait a bit until the unsophisticated necessary basics have been looked after.

It is just a thought, but apparently it isn't appreciated by those who must have a PAC at all costs and as soon as possible.

So be it.

Here is how it goes.\

Build a Civic Centre that will host Conventions from all over the world. (Never happened) Build basketball courts in Civic Centre, for locals.

Build Vanier Hall at PGSS this will enable performing arts to hold concerts etc;

Build Playhouse Theatre so that the performing Arts can have a place to hold concerts, etc;

Build Art Centre, so that all the Art can be moved from Studio 2880 to the Art Centre. Keep in mind that very few people attended the Art at 2880 and probably less attend at the Art Centre.

Build a Multi Plex for the Couger Hockey Club, and allow building to be used for Entertainers, and other Functions including Conventions. This will allow Conventions and Graduations that used to go to the Civic Centre to go to the Multiplex to try to offset horrendous cost of this building, however this means less use of the Civic Centre. (No ones watching the cost of the Civic Centre at this time)

Build a Monolithic Sport Plex at UNBC this will allow the UNBC basketball team, to abandon the Civic Centre, and use the Sports Plex. We can also entice those people who use Masich Stadium to use the quarter mile track at the Sports Plex, and Masich can fall into disarray, like the quarter mile track at Lakewood School, plus get some of the people from the local fitness clubs, and the Y to use the Sport Plex thus eliminating some of the business, presenlty being enjoyed by these down town entitys. Maybe we can get the local soccer club to abandon their new facilities on 9th avenue and support the sportsplex.

Now we will build a new Performing Arts Centre, so that we can pull performances away from Vanier Hall. (Which will then sit empty) we can pull the performances away from the Playhouse Theatre. (Which will allow the City to sell this prime land to some investment company who will build across from the Casino. (Which I think was part of the plan from the get go)

Theatre Northwest will probably stay where it is, because it is somewhat self supporting.

IPG and Gerry Offet were among the first to float this idea of looking into a performing arts centre. IPG is financed by the City of Prince George to the tune of approx 2.5 Million per year, so in essence they work for the City. Why are they involved in this promotion. Cliff Dezell was appointed by the City and the UNBC, and who knows who else to head up the Committee to build the Sports Plex. This building will at a minimum cost taxpayers $300,000.00 per year, and a like sum to UNBC. Dezell has now been appointed to head up the PAC Society, and of course being a Councillor for 30 years has the contacts, and know how to get his hands on taxpayers money to firstly fund this so called feasibility study, and then of course to get the money to build it.

Its a sad state of affairs indeed. The same old crowd, sucking money out of the taxpayers, and having their buddies build all these buildings, giving out contracts, and generally having a great time. Once its all built and there is no more money, they will do like all the rest and pack their bags and head South for retirement, and we will be stuck with the bills.

Anyone who thinks that this whole PAC concept has not been in the works for sometime with a predetermined outcome, is only fooling themselves.

To many decisions in this City are made between individuals behind closed doors without public input. We generally get involved after the fact, and then are manipulated to get the desired outcome.

Very well said, Palopu. There is not a thing to add.

gee...where was the public input?

"Anyone who thinks that this whole PAC concept has not been in the works for sometime with a predetermined outcome, is only fooling themselves."

It has actually been in the works since before the "little theatre" was built in the mid 60's when people were fighting over whether a 250 or so seat theatre should be built rather than an 1100 seat theatre.

Then came the Cultural Centre design which resulted in the Library being built. Then Discovery Place which was combining a theatre with a convention facility of sorts and that begot the Civic centre desinged by none other than Arthur Ericson complete with model.

Then the art gallery was built because a referundum once again turned down the PAC.

The PAC was then going to go to UNBC, and that was scuttled because others wanted it downtown.

The PAC has been on the capital projects list for some time, and for some time to follow the RCMP station. It is the last of the grouping of the original public assembly type buildings.

So, simply put, the time for the PAC has arrived since there is nothing else left.

Anyone have a different story? Try it. It will not be reality. Check the newspapers. They tell the story as it happened if one does a bit of research for those who did not live through it.

Owl: Your timeline and history is exactly the same as what I understand it to be.