Too bad that planes can now fly half way around the world without refueling!

Sure they can, but why haul all that fuel? Every pound of fuel they shed is a pound more freight for revenue.
PG would be a better spot for crew rotation as well.

Besides what exactly are they picking up here!....and planes use more fuel taking off and landing.

And for crew rotation Vancouver would be better choice for pilots I bet!...similar to why doctors liking it down there as well.

They have to try something to diversify this city, because call centres and casinos just dont cut it. When the pine beetle trees finally die off, forestry will be in the dumper. PG will need something to keep going and I am sure the Airport people have been talking to the Fed Exs of the world to see if they would be interested in this. Maybe it will be a disaster but at least they are trying to keep PG upright

Yes they talked to FedEx and were told that even if the expansion goes ahead FedEx has no plans on locating in Prince George. You can bet the other huge courier companys like DHL, and UPS, feel the same way. They presently have distribution centres all over the world, mostly in huge population areas, as that is where the action is. The future for distribution centres lies at the source, not midway between points. Most distribution will be done adjacent to the huge manufacturing areas in China and then shpped around the world to strategic locations for futher distribution and delivery.

It would be nice to see what exactly the business plan was that was forwarded to the Federal and Provincial Governments for approval. All I have heard to date is that the Prince George Airport Authority hopes to get approx 4 Wide Body Cargo planes to land and take off from Prince George per day. If they can then they feel that they can recoup our money over a period of 20 years. Not much of a plan.

Once the runway is completed, which of course is construction jobs, then we will see what transpires. 4 Cargo Plans landing and taking off will generate revenue for the Airport Authority, for the Oil Companies selling the Jet Fuel, and create a few jobs for fuelling, however it will have little or no effect on the overall economy of Prince George.

In my humble opinion I think that this will be a complete waste of $33 Million dollars of taxpayers money, and I expect that the extended runway will be no more than a landing and take off strip for seagulls, much like the expanded Airport Termnal Building that is used as a display for car rentals.

It's sad that some of you think the people at the airport authority are so completely incompetent and stupid that they'd be doing this expansion without having thoroughly studied the business cases, and done all of their extensive homework, in order to arrive at the conclusion that this expansion is going to be helpful to our region. Do you actually think they haven't studied things like "crew rotation" and "fuel use". How insulting of you, and what a slap in the face to some good professional people. Talk about arm chair critics spewing out crap without having a clue what you're talking about.

It's about time the expansion went ahead. I would like to see planes that could take me to Spain or the Carribean or for many PG'ers Mexico with no restrictions.

As for all the intermodel traffic there will be a fair number of jobs created at the Airport and downtown at the new intermodel area once completed as well.

The expansion will help all these issues.

If the arm chair critics had thier way we would all be walking on wooden sidewalks (hate change) and taking no risk at all. They would have turned away pulp mills, sawmills, aquatic center, civic center. multiplex, northern sports, museum etc. Let the gov't spend money somewhere else?!

easy red...
all those things are fine..to a point.
If they can remain self sufficient and get the bills paid on their own coin I am all for it.
No one pays for my entertainment but me, so find it hard to pay for the entertainment of others..
Back to the airport funds....
I still won't believe it until the check arrives and it is cashed...
so much talk until now that it is really hard to get too excited just becase someone says the cheque is in the mail...

If it does turn out to be a 33 Million Dollar boondoggle, it is only a pimple compared to the 900 Million Dollar Convention Centre in Vancouver, not to mention the 600 Million Dollar road for millionaires to get to Whistler. For better or worse, Prince George is trying to become a transportation hub....you have to give them some credit for trying to move forward and not become Cassiar, Hendrix Lake or the hundreds of ghost towns in BC that did not diversify. To diversify my post, what ideas do other people have to keep PG vibrant and economically healthy?

How about another movie theatre complex..or a smaller movie theatre that plays foreign films and movies for cheap...one theatre here..come on..and its such a mess in there....why do Prince George residents always settle for substandard facilities, restuarants etc...

Recsent comments made on another post were about "moving on".

It would be great if we did the same with the airport issue. It has been pointed out that airport management must of done their homework. If they didn't then Prince George has at least had 33 million spent on construction in the community.

Its a hell of a lot better to spend it on civic contracts then on a stupid war.

So lets move on and if our politicians end up with egg on their face so be it. And try to remember that whining on this site will not accomplish very much the place to do your protest is by taking an active part in our elections at election timee.

And try to remeber that,"they who do not learn from the past will relive the past".

Cheers

This particular project is not a "last minute, think we'll do it" project. The research, developement and investigation for the project has been ongoing for a minimum of 5 years before it reached this "public knowledge" stage.

Bridge: "Its a hell of a lot better to spend it on civic contracts then on a stupid war."

Amen. The Canadian government just spent 3.4 Billion (not million) on 4 military transport airplanes!

That is one hundred 34 million airport expansion projects!

Southfortguy:"why do Prince George residents always settle for substandard facilities, restuarants etc..."

Perhaps our restaurants don't always stack up very well against Vancouver's finest, but they certainly are as good or better than most in Kamloops or any other similar sized city in B.C.

Exactly which facilities are substandard?

I suspect that very few of the people on this post have looked into how the Airport Authority was set up, what its mandate is, and how it operates.

Firstly. the Airport Authority was set up by the Federal Government.

Secondly. The Federal Government leases all the facilities at the Airport including the runways to the Airport Authority. The Pr George lease is for a 60 year period and can be cancelled by the Feds at any time. If the Feds cancelled the lease all the facilitys etc would return to the Federal Government.

Thirdly. The Airport Authority will not start paying any lease payments to the Feds until 2011.
'
Fourthly. The Airport Authority generates money from three sources. (1) Rental of lands and facilities. (2) Landing and Take off Fees and (3) Airport Improvement Fees.

Fifthly. The money generated by the Airport Improvement Fees which is the $15.00 extra you pay every time you fly out of Prince George and which amounts to approx $1,950,000.00 for the Airport Authority every year, has to be used for Airport Improvements, otherwise the Authority has to reduce or cancel the Airport Improvement Fee.

Now anyone who would care to take a minute or two and think about this scenario, would have to come to the conclusion that the Improvement to the Airport started directly after the establishment of the Authority. (1) They improved the Airport Terminal Building. (2) They expanded the Airport parking lot from 500 spaces to 800 spaces. and now (3) They will expand the runway at a cost of $33 Million.

Considering that the Authority has no money, the only way it could get it, to make this expansion would be to approach the Feds and Prov., for $11 Million each, and to borrow $11 Million from the Northern Trust. The money from the Feds and Province will be **given** the money from the Northern Trust is in fact Provincial Money that came from the sale of BC Rail, and this money will have to be paid back. It will be paid back from the money collected from the Airport Improvement Fees, which means that these fees will be in effect for the next 20 years. So in effect the improvements will be paid for by taxpayers, and by the travelling public, however the profits, and benefits if any will be enjoyed by,

(a) The Airline Companys using the expansion.
(b) The Oil Companys fueling the Jets if they ever come to town.
(c) Some business that will locate by the Airport.
(d) A few jobs that will be created at a cost of $33 Million dollars.

If the planes dont come then of course the $33 Million will be p----d into the wind.

In any event why would any sane person think that it is a good idea for the flying public to pay for an Airport Expansion that will be utilized by Private Enterprise at no cost to themselves.

And why would any sane person beleive that if the Federal Government owns the Airport and it sets up a **dummy** society to fleece the flying public, and then gets more money from the lease arrangement than it did when it operated the Airport that this is a good thing. Its good for the Feds only. They have collected $500 Million more in revenue from the Vancouver Airport Authority since it was set up in the late 1990;s than it did when it operated the Airport.

This whole concept is a diabolical scheme that would make Soapy Smith look like a school child.

At the end of the day it matters little whether or not any planes come to Prince George because the only money that has to be paid back is the $11 Million from the Northern Trust and this is covered by the Airport Improvement Fees.

So Buzz I agree that they looked into how to get this project off the ground, however what you failed to detect was the fact that it matters little whether or not it is a success because it is all Taxpayers Money, and if it doenst fly, at least it will keep the Airport Authority going for the next 20 years.

bla bla bla bla bla I think its a great project that Harper himself had to approve after buying the $3,400 million dollar planes that couldn't land in BC north of Vancouver.

What purpose does a national emergency response team outfitted in these new globmaster make when they can not land over wide swaths of Canadian geography making them pointless other than for international show.

What comes first the airport or the airplane? Apparently for the federal goverment it would be the airplane, but at this point who cares. Like Palapo says bla bla bla bla bla....

Palopu: WRONG. You are incorrect that the Airport Authority is just tring to fund itself and keep itself going for the next 20 years. You are also incorrect that they did not consider tax payers money and the potential for this being another piece of the puzzle in improving our city for the future. Using your argument, the airport never would have been built in the first place (using taxpayers money), and we'd have a grass landing strip. Try to argue that our current airport hasn't made a positive impact on our city over the years.

Buzz. Of course our current Airport has made an impact on Prince George over the years,. As I said in previous posts this Airport was busier in the 60's and 70's that it is now.

I dont have any problem with the Airport, nor do I have a problem with any necessary expansions that would generate new business, jobs, etc;.

My point is that for the first 80 or so years that this airport operated there was no talk, of Cargo Jets landing in Prince George. I am of the position that if this was such a great idea, then it would have got off the ground a long time ago. Airplanes have been using Anchorage Alaska since about 1927 because this is the best route to get from Asia to the USA and vice versa. Thats why Anchorage has become a major distribution centre.

The local people would have us beleive that Anchorage is congested, and that we have more clear days than they do, and for these (dubious) reasons we should be able to get some of this business. Anchorage on the other hand states that they can handle all the cargo sent to them and they would build another runway if and when that becomes necessary. In addition if you are doing 1000 cargo flights per week, I would suspect that there is not a big problem flying in and out of this airport.

All the expansion plans at the Prince George Airport came about with the creation of the Airport Authority, who was given the right to assess Airport Improvement Fees.

We will have to wait and see if (a) The new terminal and customs area is ever used except for 12 weeks of the year for direct flights to Mexico. (Which might be cancelled this year) (b) Whether or not the expansion of the parking lot from 500 spaces to 800 spaces will ever be utilized. On the last couple of long week-ends you could count in excess of 200 empty spaces. (c) Whether any Wide Body Cargo Jets actually land, fuel and take off from Prince George on a regular basis.

Perhaps you or someone else can give me some indication as to when you think that these project will start to return some revenue, or serve the purpose that they were built for. How many years do you think would be fair before we could say it was a good or bad idea. 5 year? 10 years?

At present all we know for sure is that with the creation of the Airport Authority there were 20 jobs eliminated at the Airport, and we would at least have to re-coup these jobs before we started counting more.

I agree that taxpayers money should be used to keep this Airport Running, however I do not agree that those people who fly out of Prince George should have to pay $15.00 each time to finance these projects. We should all pay or none pay.

Well that's what's nice about a free country, where you and I can completely disagree with each other and still debate this even though our thoughts are not really even relevant to the decision makers! Just a couple of counter-points to yours: The parking lot expansion was an absolute necessity...as a frequent traveller I'm an expert at having almost zero spaces and having to almost panic, and of course it's -30 and wicked snow drifts everywhere when this happens. That parking lot was close to bursting before the expansion. Of course there are extra spaces now...that's the idea...expand it ONCE and it will last for hopefully a couple more decades before another expansion (if any) is needed. Also, re: the Anchorage airport...the airport authority knows all about that, as well as Edmonton, Calgary, Kelowna, Vancouver and all of the other airports (even Mexico) that may "compete". Your comments make it sound as if these are a bunch of school kids with some nerdy ideas that don't know what they are talking about. Give these guys some credit...they're hardly doing this to line their own pockets.

Buzz. I'll give you the Parking Lot expansion, however I suggest it will be some time before the Terminal Building is utilized, if the last couple of years are any indication.

The bottom line for Airport Authorities is that they have to use the Airport Improvement Fees to improve the Airport and this money cannot be used for anything else. So no improvements would mean that the fee would have to be reduced or cancelled. The whole concept is to collect the money for improvements from flying passengers. That is why it was restricted to 26 Airports across Canada, because any Airport smaller than Prince George couldnt generate enough revenue to make any improvements.

The Prince George Airport was the last to be approved and barely met the criteria.

At the end of the day the Federal Government wants to make money from these Authorities, along with not having to pay for improvements, and of course to continue to tax us at the level they were before they set up the Authorities.

With the exception of Prince George these Authorities are a huge cash cow for the Federal Government. The Vancouver Authority has collected $530 Million in Airport Improvement Fees from 1993 to 2004.

YVR website states **The single largest cost of running YVR is the rent the airport pays to the federal government. In 2003, the airports rent totalled approx $66 Million and is expected to jump to $72 Millon in 2004. Rent paid to the Federal Government by YVR since 1992 totals $673 Million dollars.

The Prince George Airport does not have to begin paying any lease charges to the Government until 2011, however unless they can generate some revenue through Landing and Terminal Fees, or Concession and Parking Fees, they will go broke, and the Airport will revert to the Federal Government. Airport Improvement Fees cannot be used to pay leasing charges, they must be used for improvements.

The Federal Government knows that the Prince George Authority is borderline broke, and that is probably why they channelled the $11 Million to them, however they have to be very careful because other Authorities will see this as a subsidy and will want the same treatment.

If the Airport Runway Expansion does not generate any revenue fairly quickly then the Airport is in trouble, it owes money to the Banks, and must start paying its lease charges by 2011. The $2 Million a year generated by AIFees will have to be used to pay back the $11 Million borrowed from the Northern Trust.

So, they may not be doing all this work to line their own pockets, however the top guys at the Airport get paid in excess of $80,000.00 per year, and you can bet they are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They work for a living the same as you and I. If the Authority fails, then they will be looking for work.