yoohoo ... Palopu .....

;-)

It is just a matter of time before some one at the U. starts all the new students whining about tuition. In a few week, I bet.

Owl. A few things to Ponder.

(1) New Program for rural nursing.(Remote areas)

(2) 7.4% Increase in Regional Campuses

(3) Master Degree program in Grande Prairie with about 25 students.

(4) 1.6% drop in undergraduate degrees.

What we have is an increase in summer students, and an increase in part time students taking courses that can be used for University credits if they chose. These are new courses added so that they could get their full time equivelent numbers up.

What does **non traditional students** mean to you??

Is this a University or is it a place where people can go to take courses that you could get out of any grade 12 work book?

The 1.6% decrease in undergraduates means that in effect there will be no increase in actual students at this University or at best they will break even. They are now in the process of doing their **VooDoo** to make it look like they are growing, however in the end it wont work.

Key point. The official fall numbers will be known on November 1st. These are the numbers that they will be funded on. Lets see what comes out of those numbers.

;En Cha Huna;

"What does **non traditional students** mean to you??"

It means many things. In this case, since we are talking about enrolment number changes, it means a growth area for learning institutes accross the country and the world.

Learning does not only happen in buildings. Learning happens everywhere, including a very important part of learning that takes place on the job. Learning styles vary. Some people learn best on their own, others need a support group of other students, others need the support of mentors. If we take the distance education component of non-traditional students, for instance, that is no longer the old “correspondence” system. We have advanced quite a bit with the technology available to us.

The new university in Squamish has a system of delivering courses in one month blocks and delivering them in an interdisciplinary style. People could actually take a course during their “vacation” while keeping their job. The same with the M.Education program at UNBC which is delivered in concentrated evening class fashion. One evening per week per class.

We are a society which has set up a system of continuous “formal” learning/teaching if you have not noticed yet. Many professional and trade associations require continuous education units to be taken every year. More and more people, when facilities and opportunities are available, further their formal education in order to advance in their vocation, or even in order to stay at the level of their vocation but keep up with new practices, whether they are management or science based practices.

UNBC has a very high ratio of grad students to undergrads. That was the very reason behind creating a stand alone University rather than a University College. Growth is not in numbers of undergrads coming in, growth is in specialized graduate programs and varied delivery mechanisms.

My son was in a masters program with about 15 students in a University with about 25,000 students. One does not have to have a large student base to run a masters program. One needs top researchers/professors, facilities and program funding to attract students to such programs. UNBC has started to prove it can get access to such funding. Hopefully the current administration can carry on after the loss of Max Blouw, the Vice President of Research.

The days of Aristotle, when students would gather around great thinkers are more or less gone. We are into mass delivery systems.

"Is this a University or is it a place where people can go to take courses that you could get out of any grade 12 work book?"

We know a graduate scholarship student who has come to take a specialized program which is not available in that student's home country yet. The initial reports of classes here and profs associated with the classes is very encouraging to hear, both from the knowledge the profs have and their interest in the students and willingness to work with them.

That basically back up the independent report cards the UNBC has been getting.

"The 1.6% decrease in undergraduates means that in effect there will be no increase in actual students at this University or at best they will break even."

That is old thinking of where the "feedstock" for universities comes from. It has changed and will continue to change.

Not only that, but the sources to which people have access to learn "formal" materials are increasing. So, Universities are not the only places where such materials can be accessed.

There is considerable growth in non-traditional providers as well, so that Universities and Colleges have to keep on their toes to not loose market share, which is the real story as far as I can tell.

"It is just a matter of time before some one at the U. starts all the new students whining about tuition. In a few week, I bet."

It might be interesting to point out that the student I wrote about in a previous post says that the tuition here is considerably less than in the student's home country.

Palopu: selective reading perhaps? How about:

"growth in the number of students pursuing master’s and PhD programming. In fact, the number of graduate students at UNBC has surpassed 500 for the first time, a 16% increase over the fall semester in 2006. This year, there has been particular growth in the University’s environmental programs and the MBA."

Don't just focus on the stats you pick and choose....if you're going to waffle on (and on and on) be sure to look at the whole picture.

As UNBC president is fully aware, the funding that UNBC receives from the government is based on the full time student heads registered in undergraduate degrees. In other words:

"There are 3105 students in undergraduate degrees, a 1.6% drop compared to last year."

Therefore 2007 enrolments translates to 1.6 reduction in the funding that UNBC receives from the government. Is this cause for celebration?

The 16% increase in graduate students are not taken into account in funding BC universities. But it is strange that UNBC president decided to remove the Dean of graduate studies (with 16% increase in enrolments) in UNBC last July
while keeping the Dean of colleges responsible for 1.6 decrease in undergaraduate enrolments. Why he did not promote the past Dean of graduate studies (with 16% increase) to be the VP academic?

Someone should ask these simple questions from Cozetto. Playing politics and trying to spin news will not improve the financial situation in UNBC.

From government point of view, UNBC was expected to increase by 6% the No of undergraduates this year and 6% in each of the next coming years and it has achieved
-1.6% this year despite hiring a new dean of enrolment and massive advertisement.

Owl. If we take your advice on all the different ways that people can be educated in the 21st. Century. Ie: *Feedstock** then the common sense, fiscally responsible thing to do, would be to close down the University, save $100 Million per year. Get rid of the 755 people on the payroll that have the best of the best, when it comes to jobs.

The money saved could be used to subsidize rent for those students who wish to go to University in Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Kamloops, Edmonton, etc; The rest of the **part time students** could take their education at these universities much like they are taking it now at UNBC. All they would have to do is make a change in the email address's they use.

The Grande Prairie Students could link with Edmonton, which is where they should be anyway, the South Okanogan can look after it self and Vancouver can look after those in the North who are looking for a Univesity Education. Much like they did for the past 100 years.

Or we can continue to try and grow this University, however this will not be easy if we cannot come up with students, and therein lies the problem. We are pulling from an area bigger that most Countrys and we only have a population of 300,000 people, most of whom are far beyond University age, and a lot who dont care, and a lot more that are not capable. Couple this with the fact that we are located in the middle of a wilderness, with a 6 month and sometimes very wet summer, cold winter, etc; etc; etc;, and you have your work cut out for you.

How long will we continue to say that the *King has wonderful clothes* Where is the child that will tell us that the *King* is naked?

Once the Government runs into a serious cash problem you can rest assured that they will be having a hard look at institutions such as costly Universitys.

**Remember the University in Nelson BC**

Palopu ...... you are not thinking straight ....

The university profs and all the service personnel you lay off here, have to be hired at the other places the students would be sent to. The facilities would have to be increased, so there would be new buildings required.

There might be some money saved in improved efficiencies due to larger numbers. But remember, these places already have larger numbers. Additional studetns means addtional support facilities and staff.

So, there is no saving of $100 million per year. Perhaps as much 10% of that, but that is it .....

You are probably also the person who keeps trying to invent the perpetual motion machine as the panacea to all energy needs, Palopu ...

;-)

Owl. Most of the UNBC people could get want they want through distance learning programs. Isnt this what is happening to the Nurses program in remote areas. They learn through distant learning so that they do not have to go to a University and lose all that time from work. Isnt this what is happening with the 25 Masters Students from Grande Prairie. It matters little what University they plug into as long as they get the necessary skills they are seeking.

Insofar as other University having to build new buildings to host students, you are correct to a degree. Firstly they would have to do this as a natural consequence of growing (Which they are all doing) and secondly insofar as absorbing the students from Prince George (Assuming they could pass the entrance requirements) this then becomes a question of economies of scale.

3105 students at UNBC would of course not all go to other Universities, but even if they did, using Uvic, UBC, Simon Fraser, Kelowna, Kamloops, and Edmonton each University could absorb 500 students without to much trouble.

In any event it is not going to happen, but using your arguments for educating people in the 21st Century it should really be looked into.

I must admit that I am intrigued by the concept of a perpetual motion machine.