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Using Stun Guns Excessive Force? One Man's Opinion

By Ben Meisner

Monday, October 22, 2007 03:45 AM

        
The matter of police using (Taser) Stun Guns needs a fresh look now that  in the past two weeks, two peple in Canada have  died  after being "tasered" .
In one case, police reasoned that Robert Dziekanski , who had just arrived from an international flight on his way to his new home land in Kamloops, died as a result of  ,”Excited delirium ." Problem with that explanation is that there is no such medical term in Canada.
The Coroner in this case has not ruled how Dziekanski died..  So the Police  determination is a bit like saying we don’t need medical experts to determine death because the RCMP know better."   In this case, they hit him with the taser, rather than take him down with a baton in front of people at the international Airport in Vancouver.  
 
Three police officers should have been able to put the man down  even if they had to use their batons.
The police have tried to get the first leg up in the matter by saying that, "excited delirium" was the culprit which caused his death not those 50,000 volts.
The following week Quilem Registre stopped in a road check in Montrealand  was zapped after he became angry with the arresting officer. Police say he was drunk, without the benefit of a toxicology report to confirm  their "finding" they simply made the call.   He was taken to hospital on  October 14th and died October 17th.  
The spin in this case is that he was drunk and that is why he died, it was not that jolt from the stun gun. Question is however, when does it become necessary to Stun Gun the guy over a traffic violation, bearing in mind that there is no proof that he was drunk other than what the police are saying?
 
There are 11,000 agencies across the world that are using the Stun Guns, so it is in the interest of the manufacturer to see that they are not taken off the market.
Well in some respect they are off the market in Canada, they can only be bought by police agencies and are deemed to be a "restricted weapon"  in this country.
That raises another question;  if the police feel that it is a restricted weapon, why then are they being used with increasing frequency?  
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.

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"Symptoms of excited delirium:
Signs of agitated or excited delirium, also known as in-custody death syndrome, include acute agitation, violence, profuse sweating and insensitivity to pain.
The condition causes the heart to race, either because of a mental illness or drug use, before it eventually stops beating.
Excited delirium has been cited as the cause of death in a number of coroner's reports around the world, but some civil rights groups have questioned its existence."

Excited delirium IS recognized by coroners offices across Canada.
Unexpected death related to restraint for excited delirium: a retrospective study of deaths in police custody and in the community.
M. S. Pollanen, D. A. Chiasson, T. J. Cairns and J. G. Young
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/abstract/158/12/1603

A t-shirt that says, "I have ED Do Not Taser", might be misconstrued fer erectile dysfunction instead of Exited Delirium. Either way I wouldn''t wear a t-shirt that says that. I'd rather be tasered than let the world think I can't get it up.
I was going to comment but after Harbinger's I am at a loss for words.
Officer injured in Taser demonstration
11 October 2007

A police officer in the US who volunteered to be the subject of a Taser demonstration has suffered possibly lasting damage, including spine fractures after receiving a five-second discharge, according to a respected medical journal.

The 38-year-old victim was rushed by ambulance to hospital where a scan showed he suffered compression fractures in his spine caused by muscle spasms triggered by being Tasered in a training class.

Nine weeks after his injury he has continued to report significant pain.

The officer's doctor, James Winslow, MD, of Wake Forest University School of Medicine in Winston-Salem, North Carolina said: 'In this case, the pain continued for a long time, leading the patient to reduce his work hours significantly.'

The case has now entered medical literature after being written up in the eminent American College of Emergency Physicians journal which released the details.

Supt Charlie Hill, staff officer to the ACPO police use of firearms working group, said the case underlined the need to move with caution until more can be discovered about the potential side effects of using Tasers.

176 of 360 words
© 2007 Jane's Information Group
End of non-subscriber extract

http://www.janes.com/news/lawenforcement/pr/pr071011_1_n.shtml
Another case of panicking cops. All three must have feared for their lives, so they stuck him four times with the taser. What a bunch of morons. As I have stated before, these cops should be better trained in hand to hand combat, not only might that save an innocent life, but the sissy cop might feel more confident in his or her interaction with a 'member' of the public that does not instantly fall to the ground face down in obediance. I cannot understand how it has become acceptable for these limp wrists to use a weapon in these cicumstances, I mean COME ON, there was three cops, one upset man, was he wearing a sign that said "touch me and you die"? is that what scared three trained police officers and one or two rentacops?
Holy schlitt, I hope I can refrain from sarcastic comment the next time I get pulled over, or stopped in a road block. If one unarmed guy can scare three cops into tasering him by yelling and waving his arms in the air, what is next, citations for dirty looks?
We ordinary citizens must now fear those who are sworn to protect us and uphold the law, because too many unarmed people are being killed by the authorities, whether by intent or accident, in circumstances that do not always appear to warrantr the use of excessive force.
metalman.
I watched global tv news that night and the lady witness who used her cell phone to record the incident claimed she saw two officers taser him at the same time. His mother was going to pick him up. Poor woman.
Metalman... I suggest if you ever get pulled over by a Mountie, don't hesitate to stick both arms out yer window. So he can relax. Oh yeah, no sudden moves when you reach fer your drivers license. But then again, if you do those things, the cop might think you have an attitude, and shoot ya anyways. Always side with caution. Mounties hate being transferred to places that start with Fort or Prince.
50,000 volts per taser? Hey!! Who needs Site C?
It's another tool for the cops to use when the situation calls for it. Show some respect to the police officers, and maybe the stress levels will go down so they can think more clearly. Sure it's a pain in the __ when you get pulled over, but these are the people who help you during hostage situations, and bar-fights that can lead to shootings. Do you go to work wondering if this is the day you get to go head-to-head with old man Reaper?

As a note, I have been pulled over a few times in my life and if you can be calm, polite and rational, the cop usually walks away a little less stressed, sometimes you even drive away with a "mere" warning.
At one time,not too long ago,if there was an incident of somebody flipping out or acting aggressively,a couple of cops waded in a thumped the guy into submission.
Used to happen all the time, even when knives,crowbars,barfights,etc. were involved.
The cops were good at it too.
Chances are,if you got in a scrap with a cop,he was going to kick your ass!
Actually,I once saw a cop on his own do the job against a guy with a chunk of glass,and it was a tough go, but he did it.
Now,these kids they seem to have on the force just whip out the Tazer and zap!
Why is it different now?
Are cops not trained in self defence anymore?
Or are they just not as tough as they used be?
Andyfreeze. It seems they are not as tough as they used to be. Could be, because in this day and age, they will take anyone who can climb into a uniform.

Doesnt anyone think that it is rather strange that we are getting more and more people shot and tasered by the Police and we hear nothing from our elected officials.

Every Politician from Regional District, to Municipal, Provincia,Federal, has a duty to take a position on this subject, however they are silent on the matter. Is it because they dont realize that we pay for the Police, and they are responsible to the Taxpayers. Our local Mayor and Council are responsible for the Police in the City of Prince George. There is nothing stopping them from trying to get some answers to these situations.

They like to be big shots and try to get the CN Rail in front of them and ask questions, however not a word when it comes to tasering people, or shooting them.
There have been a lot more people killed in this Country by tasering and shooting than there ever was by Railway Accidents.

If enough Politicians raised hell about this situation it would come to a halt very quickly.

It seems that all they are good for is robbing taxpayers, supporting contracters, and developers, spending money foolishy, and generally doing nothing.

I suggest that anyone concerned with this issue should send a letter to Stockwell Day, with a copy to Harris, or Hill, and Stephen Harper and demand that there be more oversight into Police shootings, and tasering.
No I don't think they are as tough as they used to be Andyfreeze. A lot of kids these days grow up without consequences for their actions, spoiled/subjected to/with gadgets and war games, parents cushion their every responsibility...these are some of the kids working for us.

DanSet it has little to do with showing respect in a lot of these cases. This man was recorded before they arrived at the airport and clearly he needed some med. attention. Women officers have more bowling balls than some of the males.
Some people who win lottery tickets could be said to go through a condition of excited dilirium or similar.

Some who are reacting to what to them might be a catastrophice event, such as the sudden death of a close family member, may also go through such symptoms.

So far, I think, they have not been tasered or beaten as a result.

The single differentiating factor between that condition causing death appears to be the presence of police who, rather than calming an individual, seem to exacerbate the condition.
On the money Palopu!
We live in a rapidly declining society and unfortunately,it is our illustrious politicians who are the only ones who could actually fix it.
Won't happen.
No justice,no respect for the voter,and nobody cares.
If you have enough money,you can get away with anything.
Government agencies play god with unlimited power, and no recourse when they screw up.
But, throw out a few freebee's and tell us all how great things are, and all is well in our safe,untouchable little worlds.
The government and law enforcement agencies have created a system where they are also untouchable and we let them do it.
In case nobody has noticed,law enforcemnt agencies are killing UNARMED people on a regular basis.
What's wrong with this picture?
Money,power,and control are what drives them, at the expense of the very people who put them there.
We are nothing more than a source of income and it's going to get a lot worse.
The laws that have been created by our politicians not only protect the police,they protect our politicians as well!
The only protection we have is to be as vocal as possible,not that anyone is actually listening!
I wonder how long it will be before they take that away too?
Now this opinion should get some tongues wagging, but here it is. I think maybe the (young) cops are too much influenced by television and video games, as is a large portion of the population, in my humble opinion. The rate of growth of acceptable violence and sex in 'entertainment' has been phenomenal. It is shocking to me what you see on t.v. in prime time, from the language, to sex, to death, the bloodier the better apparently. How many parents actually block those many channels that program this junk into their children's brains? We are being conditioned to accept the behavior we see on t.v. and in video games as normal and aceptable. I believe this is at least part of the problem, and also fear that there is nothing we can do about it except try and not support that type of industry. More and more it appears as if young people are brainwashed by the junk they see as reality, there are no consequences to be faced no matter what you do in playing a video game. Even worse, the role playing games where you can apparently act out your wildest fantasies, how much of that garbage is carried over into the everyday life of the players? The worshipping of 'hip hop' "stars" the raunchier they are, the more well publicized brushes with the law, the more the lost young kids adore them and want to be like them, well, they seem to emulate them don't they? I do not pretend to have the answers, and believe that there is still a majority of the population that does not allow the media to influence their lives in the away I have suggested. I am also grateful for the loan of the soap box. Thank you.
metalman.
Did any of you watch The National last night?
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/aboriginal_issues/battling_the_bottle.html
Amazing story of how the children are taking a stand. Wish we could get kids everywhere this determined to make things better! :) And just to watch the officers beautifully handle some of these situations was really nice to see.
Palopu: "It seems that all they (the politicians) are good for is robbing taxpayers, supporting contracters, and developers, spending money foolishy, and generally doing nothing."

A very realistic assessment! Chester is going to give you the *the pot calling the kettle black* lecture!

Palopu: "I suggest that anyone concerned with this issue should send a letter to Stockwell Day, with a copy to Harris, or Hill, and Stephen Harper..."

Hill doesn't have a good record of replying to letters (I know from past experience) - as for the others, who knows.

Cheers!
Its the attitude of police. A witness at the airport said the police just walked in and tasered the man. Never tried to communicate or anything. Cops these days believe they are above the law. I guess they are, as they seem to get away with murder on a regular basis. If a person defies a cop they tend to get their shorts and bras all in a knot, instead of using their heads in the situation.

In Houston I believe the cop got lippy, the kid took offense to this and then got murdered. In Vanderhoof the victim maybe did not stop when told but instead of the cop backing up and using his head he got mad and murdered. I agree with Palopu cops are just not as big and tough as they used to be.
Hey Owl: If I ever win a lottery I will be elated , but not at the airport.
I was going to add that tourists may stay away also but then I found on facebook yesterday that Britain seems to be in the same boat. This problem is way too common everywhere