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When is Child Abuse... Abuse? One Man's Opinion

By Ben Meisner

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 03:45 AM

        

The problem with the Coroner's inquest into the death of three year old Savannah Hall is that it will accomplish from little to less.

The Jury has sat throughout the proceedings trying to get a grasp on how the three year old died,  but unfortunately the issue of whether Pat Keene was abusing children in her care  has become the focal point and the matter of what to do to prevent this type of death occurring again has long since been lost in the wash.

The allegations that the Keene’s maltreated children in their care  has been, for the most part, a red herring, for what is considered as abuse and how the courts actually viewed the matter are two quite different things.

I should think that trying to be a foster parent to a large number of children dropped on your lap (just as the Ministry did previous to the death of Savannah) must have been difficult enough. Did she wash out the mouth of one kid  with soap?  Maybe.  Did she perhaps swat a child with a spoon?  Perhaps. Did she make someone stand in the corner for a long period of time? Could be, but are any of these events "abuse"?

Well I would like to take you back to my child hood, hell come to think about it, the childhood of most people that I know, very likely even the judges who would sit to determine abuse.

Did I get a swat from Mum when I was young?  Yes siree, matter of fact quite a number of them.  Did my teacher ever give me the strap? You bet, in fact,  one time,  she got so angry,  she cried because I wouldn't.

So was it abuse?  Maybe in today’s world but in mine back then it was just because I was acting up to the point that some old fashion discipline was in order.

So what’s abuse and what isn’t you go figure it.

I take the position that if you’re beating on the child every day for no apparent reason that’s abuse. If the little fellow continues to call me a ……. and more,  well maybe, just maybe its time for a little discipline.

It worked for several thousand years before, why not now?  

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.


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Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 03:45 AM in Views by Ben Meisner

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Comments

Comment Posted by: giterdun on October 31 2007 8:12 AM
MY CHILDHOOD TOO,BEN.....TODAYS SOCIETY IS SHAPED AND CONTROLLED BY THE LEFT WING THINKTANK TYPES THAT PROMOTE THE TYPE OF BLEEDING HEART DISCIPLINE THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN NOT TO GET RESULTS. TALKING AND REASONING DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. IS TODAY METHOD SUCCESSFUL? I DON'T THINK SO. JUST LOOK AROUND,DISREGAURD AND DISRESPECT ARE FLOURISHING. HEY BEN,I THINK OUR OLD REDNECK METHODS WORKED REAL WELL. WHEN WE GREW UP WE RARELY HEARD OF CHILD ABUSE. TODAY IT SEEMS TO BE IN THE NEWS DAILY. WHAT HAPPENED? LACK OF DISCIPLINE, THATS WHAT. BRING BACK THE STRAP FOR STARTERS.
Comment Posted by: Andyfreeze on October 31 2007 8:57 AM
Same when I was a kid in the 50's and early 60's.
We were never abused in anyway that I recall, but we sure as hell had respect for our elders,the law,other people's property,etc.and you always knew if you screwed up,you probably wouldn't sit down for a week!
If you got the strap at school,you were going to get a little something at home from your old man too!
They also had things like "reform school"for the really bad ones back then,and if you went there once,you NEVER wanted to go back again!
If you really messed up,you went to court and usually paid a fine to say nothing how how bad you embarrassed your family!
(ooow..then you REALLY got it after your parents paid the fine!)
And hey, we screwed up lots, we were kids after all,but we never held a grudge.
We KNEW we screwed up and you remembered it for a long time.
It was no different for the other kids we grew up with either.
A different generation I guess,but a good one I think, because most of my childhood/teenage memories are good.
We had work ethics too,something that is lacking in a lot of young people today, and we also knew if you wanted something,you had to earn it.
Ma and Pa had all they could handle just keeping you fed, and there was no extra money to hand out,but then we didn't really expect any.
What the hell happened?
Comment Posted by: ammonra on October 31 2007 9:36 AM
I was abused, physically, emotionally and sexually. I was hit almost every day by my father for no reason except that he hated me being in the house. Due to the being hit I was, in fact, very obedient in an attempt to avoid it. Of course I could not, and I was hit anyway.

I was demeaned and publicly humiliated at every possible opportunity. My mother addressed me as "dirty little f***er", and my father as "little bastard". My mother tried to get into bed with me when I was 14, but I refused. Strangers did do the fondling thing, though.

My point? Hitting is not necessarily abuse, nor is criticism. Abuse involves demeaning dominance and humiliation. People like me know the difference very well. The worse part of abuse is the emotional component, not the physical (as long as no damage takes place, of course).

You have it correct, Ben, except that you mis the worst aspect of it.

Two consequent points:

1. I do not approve of physical discipline except to get the child's attention. That is, I disapprove of hitting as a punishment, but non-pain slaps on the wrist so they pay attention are OK.

2. Those who are thinking, "Well, that explains ammonra's postings" may well be partially correct!
Comment Posted by: Andyfreeze on October 31 2007 9:46 AM
I would hope that your situation as a kid was an exception rather than the rule ammonra.
Hopefully,you have been able to get past that crap in your life and by your post,it seems you have.
Congratulations!
No kid should ever have to go through that, but it is the PARENTS who SHOULD in fact,be held responsible.
Instead,the kids are put in a foster home and the parents walk away with no consequences to continue their irresponsible life styles.
WRONG!!
It is a crime to neglect and abuse your kids,and they should have to answer for it!
It's time the government started nailing them for it!
Comment Posted by: diplomat on October 31 2007 12:00 PM
"It worked for several thousand years before, why not now?'

As soon as society gives approval to physical *correction* some people will not stop at a gentle slap and become abusers.

Ammonra, sorry to hear about your childhood circumstances which of course occurred before the advent of 911 and the ability to alert social agencies.

The evolution of mankind is a painfully slow process - sometimes it even takes some steps backwards before it advances some more. The children of today are born into a world full of problems of the kind that could be avoided by simply not repeating the mistakes of the previous generations, especially when it comes to violence and warmongering.
Comment Posted by: unlisted on October 31 2007 12:23 PM
Teaching respect (fear) through violence???? Showing a child that if you talk back, swear, or act out, that the best way to handle it is by smacking or hitting someone. Good lesson to teach. Normalize it so that it can continue throughout their lifespan, hell why stop it with smacking children? Smack everybody. A child grows to be a man/woman and someone (their child, wife, partner, random person…) does not act accordingly give them a smack.
I wonder about violence in society today. Obviously has nothing to do with the teachings of hitting children, I mean really, hitting or inflicting pain on someone is the best way to get results.
Hitting or physically/emotionally abusing a child may have been the dominant approach to teaching in the past, if it was so good how the hell did we get where we are today. I read a lot of the posts on this site and many have to do with violence, and many people post that the perpetrators of violence deserve violence back… does anyone other than me notice it may be a cycle?
I know some will link me with the “SOCIETY IS SHAPED AND CONTROLLED BY THE LEFT WING THINKTANK TYPES” and go ahead feel free. The truth is that society is not controlled by the left wing…wake up and look around at who and what has been the dominant thought in North America over the last many years.
Comment Posted by: Andyfreeze on October 31 2007 1:23 PM
I don't really consider a smack as teaching respect with violence but, I do understand your point "unlisted".
I DO NOT advocate hitting kids!
As I see it,the biggest thing kids are missing nowadays is respect for a lot of things in general,
But no matter how you cut it,that starts with the parents.
It seems that there are too many ways now for parents to bail on their responsibilty as teachers and caregivers.
Always somebody elses problem!
Kids are raised a whole lot differently now in terms of how they deal with authority figures and adults.
I am always amazed at how parents nowadays allow their children speak to them and other adults.
Just ask a teacher in a school!
If we called a teacher or any other adult by their first names,it was a rare occurance and you had better have permission to do so or else.
By putting kids on the same level as adults,we take away the respect and that affects a whole bunch of things in life.
We are seeing that now in spades, with a younger generation that will pass these same values on to their kids and it will only get worse.
A little bit of "fear" can go a long way to teaching kids what the priorities really are in this life.
Sure makes you feel old doesn't it?
Comment Posted by: diplomat on October 31 2007 2:01 PM
Unlisted: "...does anyone other than me notice it may be a cycle?"

Yes, most definitely! Adults must give children a good example. So must politicians, ministers and priests, judges and the police, teachers...Prime Ministers and Presidents...you name it.

Look at all the above, and what do you see most of the time?
Comment Posted by: heidi1555 on October 31 2007 2:47 PM
Andyfreeze i'm only 33 and I feel old! lol.. I agree totally with respect and it does raise good children. (knock on wood) I believe and try to share with my kids that there are good people in every profession, elders deserve the respect unless they are abusing them in any way then speak up and stand up for themselves and what they believe in, explain their jobs as kids is to do well in school and blah blah so on blah blah. The number one thing a parent can do is be there for their kids. Listen to them and actually hear what they are trying to say. Speak honeslty and usually that's all a kid needs to be happy. Easy as pie....for now!!! They aren't interested in boys/girls yet THANK GOD!
My mom used to threaten us with the "Wait until your dad gets home!" threat and sometimes we'd get a smack on the rear in order from oldest to youngest..lol.. I laugh because poor dad really. Usually he'd just have to give us the look and we knew to scram. My dad was there for us. He taught me to catch/hit a baseball and many many more things. He would always say to me,"Heidi, you can beat those silly boys!" lol.. I taught him how to take in a stray cat or two....We respected him.