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Sell Raw Logs To China? Of Course, Its The Canadian Way Of Doing Things : One Man's Opinion

By Ben Meisner

Tuesday, November 13, 2007 03:45 AM

  It may begin as a trickle, then grows into a stream and then finally, into a raging river.

That describes the forest industry as we know it today in the province of British Columbia.

For some as yet  unexplained reason, we continue to take the position that the forest industry can go away and this province will be just fine thank you. That kind of mentality exists even more so in the central and Northern parts of B.C.

"Diversify"  is the buzz word that we hear, we need to have value added, we need to look for other industries to make up for a loss of a few jobs in the forest industry.

That attitude will get us to the poor house, the only question is when.

Consider this; the Province is in Beijing trying to sell China our wood products. Prince George is following up with a junket to the Olympics. We need to diversify you know , get some athletes to train in Prince George leading up to the 2010 Olympics , that will go a long way to offset the effects of the forest collapse.   The thinking is, build a few wood homes in China and the door opens to millions , that is the mentality.  Problem with that thinking is while we may believe it,  the Chinese don’t see it that way.

Some of the people taking the latest trip should perhaps take a swing by their local building supply store.  That's where they will see the Chinese products offered for sale. Want some windows and doors ?  Want some plywood ?  Want some cedar products, (well not really cedar but Chinese fir that looks almost the same) don’t go to Beijing, we are offering it to you right at home and the market is growing.

We have indeed taught the Chinese about the benefit of using wood, they have opened up new mills in Russia; they are cutting their own wood and are buying any low end lumber on the market from surrounding countries. Now does that sound like a country that is standing at your door begging for you to sell them finished products?  

We showed them how to do it and they are doing it.

Want the best opportunity sitting out there for container cars heading back to China?  How about raw logs?  After all we have shut down mills , take Terrace for example, which frees up those logs. What do you do with them?  Well the argument will be , send them to China , after all its better than having no one work in the forest industry.

So can we look forward to a serious effort to get raw logs moving to China which will then return as plywood, and other value added products that we should have been making in this country?  Of course we can, but then , isn’t that the Canadian way of doing things?

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.

    


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Comments

I think we need to coin a bit of a different phrase if we go that way .... sort of like a "lost opportunity" ...

Value Lost ....

;-)
We should have a resource export carbon tax. Any raw logs for export pay a 300% carbon tax for the cost of shipping (both ways) and the loss of carbon sink as it relates to Canada. This should also extend to oil and gas energy exports IMO to off set the income tax as well as bill for carbon export.

The banksters have already insured tade can take place regardless of labour cost disadvantages, we should not also allow them to treat the environment in the same fashion, especially the biosphere we all breath from. The oil sands emissions should not be Canada's burdon alone and that is where the example should be set IMO.

Either that or ban completely the export of raw logs, followed by raw unprocessed petroleum products, and so on and so forth, which obviously wouldn't sit well with our trading partners....

Also BC should do away completely with the tenur system that has strangled the life out of the value added sector in this province. The province should be more involved in facilitating an open log market for domestic area specific consumption.
As long as there are still 400 to 500 million Chinese underemployed or unemployed, making only a few dollars per week or nothing, the country will do anything to employ as many people in manufacturing as possible.

Soon the Chinese will open their own big box distribution centers for Chinese made products, thereby cutting out the middlemen and making all the profits.

So long, Walmart!

Facts of life.



Stupid stupid stupid we cant see the forest for the trees.

Cheers
"Soon the Chinese will open their own big box distribution centers for Chinese made products"

The Japanese have done it for them for now.
Daiso in Richmond is a very interesting store. It is the main anchor of a large new shopping centre opened with the Asian community in mind.

http://www.daisocanada.com
Exporting logs is EXACTLY what we should not be doing. This is what's called unsustainable. It is the further worship of money - illogical behavior - over the care of our world. It makes sense to build a home out of wood in BC and no sense at all to build a house out of BC wood in China. Do you have any idea how much fuel alone it takes to move the wood from here to there? An average container ship burns 2 million liters of fuel just to cross the Pacific ONCE!

Sustainable behavior dictates that you use as many local resources as possible and not move things long distance. The Chinese should be building with whatever is most abundant in China, be it brick or stone or whatever. Moving trees around the world is stupid on so many levels that I don't have space here to point them all out. Suffice to say that all these economics are based on one simple principle, that money is to be worshiped above all other thoughts or considerations. Jesus is a trite footnote when compared to how the world bends it's knee's to the God of money. There is only one thought, always, where is the money? Clear cut millions of acres to make junk food wrappers and make a buck? Done! Burn millions of liters fuel pumping tons of carbon into the atmosphere to make a buck? Done! Kill the Earth to make a buck? Done!!!

The death of a thousand cuts.

Too many still thinking with 19th century attitudes.
kevin1006: "An average container ship burns 2 million liters of fuel just to cross the Pacific ONCE!"

We are busy building new container ports on every coast to encourage this kind of traffic!

A German company (as seen on the Discovery Channel) is researching its invention of container ships which launch huge kite style sails into the wind once out in the open sea! They are positioned by computer control to take advantage of the winds. Thousands of tons of fuel are saved depending on the length of the trip.

It works like a charm!

Back to the future!

kevin1006: "Jesus is a trite footnote when compared to how the world bends it's knee's to the God of money."

Yep. The Ten Commandments are just a *footnote* as well - which is too bad for a society that professes to be predominantly Bible believing Christians.




Give a Chinese man a tree and he will not be out of work til he finishes with that tree. Teach a Chinese man to get his own trees and finish them and then he will be able to sell you the finished product cheaper than you can make them. Better get the Steelworkers Union to enlist all those Chinese workers to bring up the cost of those products due to costly overhead which is wage and benefits union dues , etc. Union organization in China will make those Chinese made products just as unaffordable as ones made here in North America. Go get 'em brothers and sisters. Solidarity and all that. I am rambling.
The root of the problem is overproduction,
simply put, people like WFM & Canfor must reduce volumes,(supply & demand) once we go from 3 to 2 shifts, prices will go up,mills will start, unfortunately, no pressure from the governement and the last man standing policy is being played out and the small guy is being desimated, unfortunately we have an idiot as MOF.
And Emerson, sold us down the river, Only way to solve this is lumber quota,given fairly and equitably to all regions, for distribution to all mills, not based past shipments etc... Once this happens you will see mills west of Smithers spark up right away, Getting WFM to cut anything other than dimension, is wishful thinking,its not going to happen, forget about adding value, (the government should force the big 3 to cut metric and add value).

But Big Government will have no part of this, especially our M of Forests, as
he's favoring big money operators & not the oridinary operator,u guys 'bow to the all mighty dollar & face East Three times each day (not Mecca but to Wall street)

please repond to the wishes of your
consituency & let know.

loggerhead :)
Nothing justifies the export of raw logs from B.C.and especially right now!
If we can't process and market the finished product ourselves,then leave the damn things where they stand until we can!
Sheer stupidity on the governments part to even allow it in the first place!
We seem to have this need to piss away every resourse we have until everything is gone!!
Why is that?
"The root of the problem is overproduction,
simply put, people like WFM & Canfor must reduce volumes,(supply & demand) once we go from 3 to 2 shifts, prices will go up,mills will start, ..."

I am sure the producers in the other Canadian provinces (also partners in the Softwood Lumber Agreement) will increase their production if we reduce ours!

The whole country would have to be participating in a production cutback in order to have any effect - and the Yanks might then just look for other suppliers (like Russia and some European countries) and remain loyal to them afterwards.

"...unfortunately we have an idiot as MOF."

Hey, that's nothing, some countries have a certifiable idiot for president, for two terms!
Hey Harbinger get with the program, unions are what give you your quality of life. If you don't think so then move to China. Hey I get good pay. All holidays off and 30 days off. Work a 37.5 hour week. All medical dental drugs and glasses paid for. Eat your heart out. Hey you got a medical card in your back pocket, well I guess that makes you a socialist doesn't it.
Why should I go down to China's level? Why not bring them up to ours? They deserve a fine lifestyle like ours, don't they? Or is that different? Nah! I got the national debt in my back pocket and it goes with every pair of pants I own. Can't seem to rid myself of it.
I listened to Rich Collman on the CBC today and he is an idiot in short. He is all about big government control acting as a broker for the multinational forest companies. It seems to me he will do anything he can to separate local accountability for local forests from the land use profiteering of the multinationals.

For Rich and the Campbell governemnt it is all about government revenues and not about best use of our forests for the betterment of local economies....
What kind of vehicles do you people drive? Where are they made? What kind of televisions do you watch? Where are they made? What kind of timepiece are you wearing on your wrist? Where is it made? It is a global market people, whether it is good or bad. We all buy products because of price for the most part, not always, but a lot of the time. We import beef and pork and chicken from various countries throughout the world and no one cares. A lot of vegetables come from other countries including China. Restaurants in P.G. buy a lot of their products from companies that are foreign owned but no one cares. Why shouldn't the people that own the logs be able to sell them wherever they want? I know it is not good for P.G.'s economy but perhaps it is for the owners of those logs. Who are we do tell them they can't sell the logs wherever they want. If they get the license and pay the stumpage then that is their product to do with whatever they wish.
All we do here in B.C, is cut down trees. Any one know what else we do? (to keep our economy alive) Feel free to say.
"All we do here in B.C, is cut down trees. "

Cutting down trees is what some of us do.

Others work in manufacturing, mining, fishing, tourism, health care, policing, farming, government services, education, transportation....etc.

We have always exported some raw logs, no matter who ran the show in Victoria. The Campbell government is not the first to allow this.

When a large oriented strand board mill was proposed for Prince George, it was shot down by strong objections from some who thought it wasn't a good idea.

We have to exploit every opportunity to use our natural assets in a productive and environmentally responsible way and stop impeding new developments whenever they are proposed by mountains of red tape and endless delaying tactics by various opposing interest groups.

Then there will be plenty more things to do.



"If they get the license and pay the stumpage then that is their product to do with whatever they wish."

But that is not how it works in other segments of society. Whoever gives the license is the "owner" or authority of the conditions of that license. Whoever collects the fees for use of something is the "owner" of that something.

You cannot do what you wish with a hunting license; you cannot do what you wish with a license to use a retail space in a mall; you cannot do what you wish with a driver's license nor with a rental car.
the trees are the property of all b.c. and their explotation should benefit the province with jobs and wealth.
BAN RAW LOG EXPORTS!
This is the sentiment of the majority of B.C.'s population, yet not one of political parties has the cajones to stand up to the lumber barons and say enough is enough. I think I would vote for any party, regardless of political stripes, if they ran on that platform.
"BAN RAW LOG EXPORTS!" I agree 100%. We have the technology to mill lumber to customers' specifications and we already have the mills and workers to do it.

If we don't look after our own interests first, who will?

There are other common sense issues that are neglected by the established parties (both provincial and federal) and if a new party is ever formed that addresses those issues the other parties are toast!
Hey diplomat. Any reason why B.C. doesn't get auto manufacturing plants? Seems to me that Quebec and Ontario make things. We don't. Manufacturing what? Wheels fer Toyota's in Richmond? No steel smelter in this province. Health care, policing, government services, education, transportation are grouped in the service sector. I fail to see how dishing out donuts at Timmie's can sustain and make our world here in B.C. go around. You just can't run a country based on the service industry. Cut down a tree, sell it, process it, or show it to a tourist? Whatever you want, pal.
Maybe B.C. needs to start a log cartel. Just like OPEC. There is only a shortage until the price goes up. If they can have $100 dollar oil, why can't we have a $100 dollar tree? Some people got oil, we got trees.
Now that the U.S. dollar is so much lower why don't the Canadian mills bring in raw logs from there? Some of the brokers are bringing in lumber from the states now, so why not the logs? Hmm, maybe the unions have gotten too greedy and the wages in the mills are too high here??
"Maybe B.C. needs to start a log cartel. Just like OPEC."

Better talk to the Russians. They have several fold the trees we have which means they control the price. Get them to move it up rather than high grading. I think they are starting to reduce the raw log shipments.

Too many here forget that we do not have a monopoly on trees ....
Lotsa countries don't have a monopoly on oil either. Just gotta join them together. Cept fer the radical countries. Just like the non-OPEC members. Sitting on our logs ain't an option. That is why we sell them. Kinda like exporting jobs. But then again, who said life is simple?
Me? Organize anything? I have enough trouble organizing an outing fer myself to Timmies.
"Manufacturing what? Wheels fer Toyota's in Richmond? No steel smelter in this province. "

I believe there IS an alloy wheel manufacturing plant in Richmond. We can tell Hundai/ Kia/ Nissan/ Toyota/ Subaru/ Honda/ Suzuki/ Mitsubishi/ VW/ BMW/ Audi/ Mercedes etc that we won't buy their vehicles if they are not equipped with alloy wheels which were produced in the new aluminum wheel casting factory in Kitimat!

The reason why we don't get any automobile manufacturing plant in Prince George is that the power brokers and the majority of the voters live in Ontario and Quebec.

Dave Barrett (NDP) built a box car manufacturing plant in Vancouver - the East felt threatened, refused to buy the product and boycotted it.

Soon after it was shut down.

It's purely politics, lobbying and provincial trade barriers.





Speaking of boxcars .... the yellow flatbeds which carry the containers from Rupert are manufactured in Oregon.

What does BC have in common with Oregon? Just about everything. So why are we not manufacturing flatbeds?
"..the yellow flatbeds which carry the containers from Rupert are manufactured in Oregon."

Are you sure that they are not made in China and then simply shipped to Oregon, from there to Canada?

;-)
Don't chew on the yellow flatbeads from Oregon anyway. If they're made in China, they will have some lead in them somewhere.