Tasered to death? shot in the back of the head? Perhaps the gangs should be going after the RCMP instead of the reverse.Message is clear if you want to be a legal thug join the mounties and then you'll get patted on the back instead of hasseled without arrest.

Wish I could swear against those police. Very disgusting treatment. They should be punished by getting tasered themselves. (not to kill them but to put a point across how painfull it is. No experience in the pain of it.)

I was sickened by watching that video. I don't understand why that poor scared man had to treated so brutally. There certainly were enough RCMP present that I'm sure they could have subdued the man without repeated tasering. And why the baton beating after he was down? What a horrible display of our force at work. Nobody even cared when the man stopped breathing, one member even laughed. Kudo's to the fellow that turned over the video, that poor man didn't deserve to die that way. My heart goes out to his mom who was so looking forward to having him come to be with her.

Why was C.P.R. not performed on this man? He was KILLED by the police. The one officer had his leg on his neck and KILLED him, he was no threat to the 4 fully trained police officers, they must have just recieved a new toy and had to try it out.

It would appear that some in the RCMP are taser happy. Unfortunately, anyone with a disability, be it from stroke, mental illness, (language barrier) or perhaps FASD don't have labels on them explaining they have difficulties communicating. And perhaps police feel they don't need to care.

However, innocent individuals, people you know and may love, are going to be hurt by a taser first, ask questions later policy. Read about the man from Kelowna who got tasered for being unable to adequately communicate.

My daughter is bi-polar, I fear for the day that she fails to take her medication and goes into a mania state. God forbid she'll be in an airport as one person was when he was gunned down for failure to obey a command to stop. What are we (as a society) becoming?

snappi you are blind. he wasnt beaten with a baton by anybody. The baton fell out of the officer's scabbard during the scuffle. What you see is the officer collapsing the baton back into its original shape by hitting the tip against the concrete floor. No one is getting hit with any baton.

So, its verified by a polish translator that the guy WAS swearing at people, smashing up stuff and acting violent. Sounds like just cause for an arrest for causing a disturbance and mischief to property to me.

Additionally, that woman in the video took quite a chance approaching the man like she did. He was acting irrationally and had she remained despite him telling her to go away, there is no telling if he would have assaulted her or not.

The woman in the video had a lot more balls and common sense than those 4 chicken s--t Mounties had. Had they left him alone until they could get an interpretor we would have had an entirely different outcome.

If anyone treated an animal this way we would have them arrested and charged,.

I suggest we all write to the Federal Justice Minister , with a copy to Stephen Harper, and the Provincial Attorney General and have them put a stop to this madness.

Yah, the cops were just trying to prevent all the fairy tale things that "could have", "might have", "should have" happened had the stars in the sky all lined up properly and a billion "if" statements all proved true.

We should all stand silently comatose and emotionless, for fear of giving the cops a valid reason to brutalize us.

Well, you know what Imorg ?
Down here in the vast wasteland of filthy worthless civilian life, outside of the Great Kingdom of Cophood, that's what we do. We try to help each other when someone is having troubles. Usually it works out pretty good. Usually it turns out far better than if the police were involved.

If someone could have reached any of the 200,000 or so Slavic-speaking people living in and around Vancouver, maybe this would have been a nothing situation. Not even a police matter. Just a guy who needs directions. I don't know what happened that day, maybe they were all busy, or maybe just nobody tried ?

In any case, you have to feel like some kind of failure as a police officer when you take a nothing situation, a minor disturbance, and handle it so poorly that not only is a man needlessly dead, but it also turns into an International incident.

I look forward to you and your mindless twin brother troll repeating all the things they told you to say in order to try to convince the semi-retarded general public that everything was justified and done as per policy.

You "take quite a chance" just getting out of bed every day. The act of being born is the most deadly, it always leads to death eventually. 100% of the time.

I agree, it turned out to be a tragic ending for this distraught fellow. How long had he been acting in such a violent fashion? He was smashing furniture in the video? What happened in the previous 10 hours? Were the Airport Authority Security to fearful to approach him? What was told to the RCMP when they were called? Was he in a public area, or contained or detained somewhere? There must be much more to this story than all of the conclusions everyone seems to be jumping to from a video clip. I prefer to restrain from criticizing until I have more information. Chester

Chester. There of course is more to this story, and hopefully it will all come out.

(1) After arriving on a flight from Poland it took over six hours to process him by immigration officials, after which he was released as a landed Canadian Immigrant,

(2) During the 6 hour detention his Mother was unable to locate him. It seems that the Airlines and Airline Security people cannot and do not communicate directly with the Immigration and Customs portion of the Airport, and therefore could not give her any information as to where her son was.

(3) It seems that after he was released by Immigration he was confused as to where to go, or what to do. His Mother was in a different part of the Airport still trying to locate him.. By this time 9 hours more or less had elapsed since his arrival. It seems it was at this point that he began to get agitated, and the rest is history.

Todays UK Daily Mail has a story about a diabetic in a diabetic coma being tazered twice for not responding to a cops orders. The cop said he suspected the man was a suicide bomber.

----------------------------

The 34-year-old bistro owner and son of a magistrate has been dependent on insulin for 20 years.

He was on his way to meet friends for a drink after work when he fell into a diabetic coma on the top deck of a bus in his home town of Leeds. He says he was the only passenger on board.

He does not remember any more until he woke up in the back of a police van in handcuffs, initially fearing he had been kidnapped.

It appears armed police had been called to the bus and shot him twice with a Taser gun after he failed to respond to their orders.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti

cles/news/news.html?in_article_id=494199&in_page_id=1770

Palpolu dont be ridic. That woman should not have approached that guy any more than you or I would hold out a hand to a snarling pit bull.

What ever Imorg. My point is she was taking the right action/ Ie; Try to calm the person down, and communicate. Perhaps the Police should have tried to do the same.

Tasered to death. Why not just shoot the poor bastard.

I have not seen the video, but I thought we lived in a country where there is no capital punishment. I thought people in position of authority had a responsibility to protect the criminals or subjects from harm.

It sounds to me like a bad cop, can't control himself. He figures that his power is a liscence to murder people.

Just my opinion.

Hey DPJ, are you aware that officers in the RCMP who use the Taser have been tasered themselves!!!! I didn’t think so…Many are now taking a full 5 second run on it! It hurts like hell but the pain quickly subsides. A vast majority of you are completely clueless about the realities of police work, the use of force model police are taught, and how the use of force fits within the criminal justice system. The media makes me sick to my stomach. Everyday police in this country and in the "250" are subjected to abuses like no other. Police are commonly struck, spit on, subjected to false allegations of misconduct by ignorant people such as many of you, and their lives along with the lives of their families threatened. But the abuse police take goes completely unnoticed by the media and many of the people who are commenting on the site. I bet there is a cop out there right now on the way to a serious domestic assault, a bar fight, a stabbing, a stolen vehicle complaint, a drug search warrant, and the list goes on....all in an effort to "keep the peace" in this province which generally consists of a bunch of bleeding heart liberals. Just once I would like to turn on the news and see a positive comment about the great work being done by the police. I have a feeling that won’t happen given the media’s insatiable appetite for the “controversial” and always one sided story.

Later and keep on hating!

Palopu:
Did the woman speak Polish? If so, the proper thing to do would be to try to talk to the gentleman prior to his throwing stuff around the terminal. I doubt she spoke Polish, so communication wasn't her motive. If she was truly concerned for the man, she'd have turned off her camera and focused on him. I think her motives are suspect.
He Speaks:
Tasers are not lethal weapons. Only a very small percentage of people who are tasered actually suffer any long term harm. If the cop figured he had a 'liscence [sic] to murder people' he would have used his sidearm. Your opinion stinks.

We have a large man, ranting incomprehensibly, pacing around in an agitated manner, throwing at least one chair and a computer across the room, and no one can communicate with him. What should the police have done? Tickle him? Trying to physically restrain him would have resulted in an even lovelier video. Remember Clay Wiley? He was a man in the same aggrivated state, and six or more officers couldn't restrain him. Use their batons? Another lovely video, and complaints on Opinion 250 about the evil police whaling away at a poor innocent man. Wait it out? Okay, but then how much damage do they allow him to create? What if he got ahold of someone else? Again, the computer jockeys on Opinion 250 would be estatic at being able to criticize the police for not doing their jobs and preventing a violent lunatic from injuring someone on the sidelines.

The police are really in a no-win situation.

Just my opinion, but I find it absolutely ridiculous to believe that not a single Polish speaking person could be located in the Vancouver International Airport during the elapsed time that this was going on.

You can say all you want about what happened during the prolonged chain of events, but the bottomline is that this should have been resolved long before the RCMP ever got involved.

The entire chain of events needs to be reviewed to determine what went wrong and where heads should roll.

So I'm just wondering how many of the self righteous offended opinionators will now hesitat to dial 911?

Maybe they should register their names with the RCMP so that the cops can take their time and don't rush into the situation when they call? Or before responding at least stop and ask their opinion as to what they think the RCMP should do. I'm sure Owl would have a check list for the RCMP to go through before doing anything.

Might work better, who knows?

KJM cry me a river. Being a Cop is a dirty job I agree but if a person doesn't know what they are getting into then they shouldn't be there. I have seen a bad attitude developing with cops over the years and something has to change. Why should we be scared of cops. Is this attitude developed in training? Those becomming cops seem to think its going to be like a hollywood movie, hello wakeup sunshine its not. Cops are supposed to be a stabilizing force, not the destabilizing force.

Robert Dziekanski did not seem to be a threat at the time he was put down. This action was a result of poor training and no discipline.

This incident also shows how security at airports are a multi-billion dollar joke. He spends hours in one area of the airport without no one getting curious. Cops take a fair bit of time to get on scene. Hello terrorists welcome to Canada this is the best we can do.

Also why didn't the cops give him CPR and what idiot supervisor wouln't call the airport medics. I thought only my outfit had idiots for managers.

I don't know whether you folks got a bad recording or didn't listen to the right part, but the TV news tonight he quite audibly called out several times "policja" in a tone that the Polish interpreter they consulted said was calling for them.

I downloaded the video from Youtube and extracted the soundtrack. Between 3.00 and 3.05 I hear Dziekanski call out "policja" twice. I have uploaded this segment to http://billposer.org/Policja.wav.

"A construction worker, Mr Dziekanski spoke no English but a Polish YouTube blogger has translated his pleas to police.

"I want to get out, help me find the way...Police! Police! Can't you help me?"

His desperate plea is followed by harrowing shrieking as he is hit by at least two 50,000-volt blasts."

-from a New Zealand newspaper

"Hey DPJ, are you aware that officers in the RCMP who use the Taser have been tasered themselves!!!! I didn’t think so…"

Ok KJM how about in training did all officers get their necks stomped on cutting off air after being tasered? These people training to be an officer know dam* well what they are getting into. Now it's time they get into doing their jobs properly!

heidi
Kneeling on the back of someone's neck does not cut off their air supply. It keeps them from spinning around to continue fighting.

The biggest mistake made here is the police moving in without accessing the situation first. Poor training and discipline.

Typical Canadian way you folks, justify it and move on!!!!

Sorry, should have said "some" folks!

Whatever happened to the billyclub? Rodney King survived his encounter with brutal police with the phrase "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Ban the Tazer. Better to have broken limbs, bruises etc. than to have 17 deaths in Canada from the Tazer. Maybe my memory isn't 100% but I don't recall 1 death from a billyclub, let alone 17. I am not condoning police brutality- just that I'd rather have survivors. Maybe thats the Tazers appeal-dead men tell no tales (luckily videos do).

Raparee/lmorg/Troll whatever your name is I have no idea what your neck is made out of but try pushing on your neck with your hands on both sides and see what happens. Now picture testosterone "(qualities (as brawn and aggressiveness) usually associated with males)" and adrenaline pumping through the body of the man that has his knee pushing down on your neck after you were tasered. Could you breathe? If tasers didn't kill him then hmmmmm??????? Quit breast feeding the ones in the wrong and lets fix things. Let's get these young/and or inexperienced officers out there introduced to the Joe Slemko's out there and have a better Canada.

All you big talkers. Never there but love to talk. Lets ban cars,smoking,fatty foods and more as they Kill people by accident.
This was a sad accident the guy should not die from a little tazzer. Tazzer is much better than pepper spray or mase.

Herbster:
If the LAPD had used a taser with Mr. King, he probably wouldn't have suffered that brain damage that he now has to live with.

Heidi:
My name is Tim. You'd have to ask lmorg what his name is, because I don't know it. Is it so very hard to believe that there are two people in this town that disagree with your exaulted opinion? Kneeling on the back of a persons neck WILL NOT cut off their airway. Try it out. I know this from personal experience gained from my high school infatuation with the martial arts. I had a large man, incidentally a member of the Surite du Quebec, kneel on the back of my neck as a demonstration. I could breathe just fine, but I just couldn't resist.

"Breast feeding the ones who are in the wrong...", eh? No inquiry yet, no results from any investigation, no verdict from any judge, and yet YOU know who is wrong. YOU who were no where near the incident, and have less than half of the story are in a position to pass judgement?

Raparee; the point is that Rodney King lived and collected damages. The beauty of a Tazer (from the point of defending brutality lawsuits)is that it leaves no marks, and occasionally kills its victims. In neither case does the victim get any benefit, and furthermore there is no evidence to convict the cop that used it, either legitimately or not. If the cops had to use billy clubs, there is physical evidence to prove what happened. 17 people have died in Canada from its use. What other product would we allow that has that kind of track record?

Heidi, you are totally out to lunch as usual. Enuff said.

King lived, and did collect considerable financial compensation. Had he been tasered, the overwhelming odds say that he would have come out better off than he actually did, having suffered brain damage as a result of the physical beating he took.
Tasers DO leave physical marks... where the probes enter the skin, so (from the point of defending brutality lawsuits) there is evidence to prove what happened.
True, 17 Canadians have died following being tased by the police, but in each of those instances there was a contributing factor... excessive cocaine/meth use, whatever. Not one of those 17 deaths could be attributed to the use of a taser alone.
Any tool at the police's disposal could kill. If they use their OC spray, it could kill someone with a respiratory problem. A misplaced strike from a baton could crush a skull. Pinning someone to the ground could result in positional asphyxia. What took can the police use that is 100% effective, yet poses no threat to the 'bad guy'?
17 people dead out of the thousands and thousands of people who have been tased. I'd accept those odds.

Hey reparee, don't worry about heidi...she's just transferring all of her frustration over from the st arnaud thing...no father for her kid and all that stuff.....

Its not your choice to accept those odds. We still live in what some of us would like to call a democracy.

Its about public safety and the need for the public not to fear being killed by a tazer over a simple misscommunication.

You don't want to be tased, Chad? I can't blame you. One thing I'd suggest to you, is to not be a large, violent, incoherent man throwing computers and furnature around a public place.
"Simple miscommunication". Really? Kinda soft language, don't you think, when considering how this individual was "expressing his frustration"?

You're right. It's about public safety. It's about the safety of the people that this Polish gentleman put at risk with his highly violent behaviour.

I never wanted to go for lunch in the first place. I'm doing the best I know how with trying to understand how some people act. I'm so glad you think the opposite of what I do...makes me feel better about myself trollpuppet.

"The boundaries which divide life from death
are at best shadowy and vague.
Who shall say where one ends,
and the other begins?"
Edgar Alan Poe.

"Peace if possible, truth at all costs." -Martin Luther

"Mommy I love my father." -my daughter Leah

"He was so easy to get along with. He was just one of those kids that people loved the moment they met him. He was the perfect son." -Linda Bush

"I think they have to test them and re-test them and do everything they can to justify their use and what circumstances they should be used... I regret that no one told us about the Taser use, because perhaps we could have prepared for that. It's a hard way to find out what happened to your son." -Riki Bagnell

"CORE VALUES OF THE RCMP - Recognizing the dedication of all employees, we will create and maintain an environment of individual safety, well-being and development. We are guided by:

integrity
honesty
professionalism
compassion
respect
accountability" -RCMP homepage

"I can't breathe." -Roman Andreichikov
"Those, says a friend who watched in horror, were Roman Andreichikov's last words as he lay pinned to the floor of his Granville Street apartment.

Three Vancouver police officers had piled themselves atop his body while another one stood by his side. One officer pushed Andreichikov's head down against the floor. Two officers bent Andreichikov's legs at the knees while they used their body weight to drive his ankles into his back."

"If you're mumbling, you're still breathing," was one officer's reply, reportedly. Moments earlier, one of the officers holding Andreichikov's legs had shot him with a Taser - an electric stun gun that overwhelmed his nervous system with 50,000 volts of electricity. With his body in convulsions, the officers took hold of Andreichikov and bound his hands with cuffs. Then thirty seconds after Andreichikov gasped his final words, he drew his last breath."

Well troll if this is out to lunch then I guess you got me!

5 Day cocaine binge. Died of a fatal heart attack while in a cocaine-induced psychosis according to the coroner's inquest. Did you read that part?

Troll so that makes it all OK. If a guy did drugs then he has no right to live? If he died from a tazer then it is always because he did drugs, therefore it is OK to kill the guy, because it was the drugs and not the tazer? If the guy died from the tazer, but was unknown to be on drugs then he was a drug dealing pimp after the fact and thus also deserved to die? If he was tazered then he deserved it because the look in his eyes ment he was under excited dementia? If the guy commits a property crime then he was acting violent and deserves to be tasered to death?

I'm not sure that is the logic of a police for in a constitutional democracy? Obviously this is a matter larger than just the police experience and training. Its institutionalized ‘us verse them’ mentality within the police force itself. To protect and serve is history as far as the police are concerned these days.

Its pretty obvious from the video that excessive force was used in this instance.

Raparee and others who are condoning this type of action by the police do not

(a) Understand that Citizens have rights and cannot be subjected to excessive force until all other avenues to control the situation have been tried.

(b) Are trying to imply that an individual in distress, should be considered a dangerous criminal and treated as such.

(c) Have little or no concern as to how this type of policing impacts on Canadians

(d) Seem to have forgotten that the Police join the force voluntarily and are to police as per the guidelines set out by those who pay their wages. If they dont like the rules they can quit. Canadian citizens , not the police will decide how things will be done in this Country

(e) There is a very good chance that Criminal Charges could be laid in this issue. At the very least it will shine a bright light on Policing in Canada, which in my opionion will not be a bad thing.

Hiedi 1555...your last quotes really moved me...kidding of course! That’s some corny stuff there my dear. I assure all of you that even if an independent organization conducted this investigation that there is "absolutely no likelihood of criminal conviction". In fact Crown would not even consider charging the police in this matter. So keep calling for public inquiries and writing corny quotes on this site, the police did NOTHING wrong and it will all come out in the wash! I challenge anyone at the conclusion of this investigation by the RCMP to examine the investigation under the freedom of information act and tell me what you think about the standard of the investigation being conducted!

I have read most of the comments posted here. Some make sense some I do not agree with. All that put aside. The whole thing was handled wrong. The man was confined, he had no weapons that were visible. He obviously spoke no English. The RCMP should have picked up on that in A second. What threat would A man pose with his hands up. The member that tazered him needs to return to depot for much more training. I have heard it said the tazer did not cause his death. They are defending the tazer tactic. That being true, that removes the tazer being the cause of death. Which leaves? He did not commit suicide..Orca

http://www.cacp.ca/english/Speeches/Ethics%20foundation%20of%20good%20policing%20posting%20version.pdf

I was drawn to pages 9 and 10 the parts about justice, possessing a moral core and so on.

Back to 2006 for this
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20060130_120538_120538&source=srch

This caught my attention:

"More troubling still is the word of officers on the street, who say the staffing crisis is already putting public safety at risk. One constable posted in B.C.'s Lower Mainland says he attends between 20 and 40 calls on an average Friday or Saturday night, each of which requires him to write up an investigative file. "Of those, you might get three or four that really need to be investigated," says the officer, and with such a heavy workload, officers spend their days off buried under paperwork. Worse, he says, they begin to cut corners. "Instead of investigating a case, they're looking for ways out. They want to kill that file as soon as possible."
Their means of pinching off investigations are varied. Sometimes officers stop investigating if witnesses can't provide a slam-dunk identification of a perpetrator, the constable says. Or they might try to discourage victims -- implicitly or not so implicitly -- from pressing charges. "Let's say two people who are drunk have beaten each other up fairly badly -- broken noses, bleeding," he explains. "You find witnesses who say, yup, that guy started it by taking a beer bottle and smashing it over that guy's head.
"Well, how many times have I seen a police officer go up to the victim and say, 'You know what? I realize your head hurts and you have a black eye, but this guy is an acquaintance of yours, right? This isn't going to court until about nine months from now, and by then you're going to forget all about this. You'll have to take a day off work, maybe two. Your boss isn't going to be happy and you're going to miss the money. So are you sure you want me to charge him with this?'
"When the guy finally says, 'Nah, forget it,' you just write off the file. 'Victim knows assailant. Victim did not wish to make a statement and did not wish to press charges. Concluded here.' That kind of stuff happens all the time."
Like several members who related their experiences for this story, the officer requested anonymity, noting the RCMP has zealously enforced provisions of its code of conduct forbidding officers from "criticizing, ridiculing or complaining about the RCMP's administration, operations, objectives or policies." But several other members working in urban detachments have corroborated his account to Maclean's. And while some consider it "good policing," British Columbians saw the potential result of this practice in September 2004, when a rookie constable, Mike Pfeifer, admitted during a coroner's inquest that he failed to properly investigate a spousal violence complaint in Burnaby. Rather than arresting the accused man, Bryan Heron, as per the force's investigative procedures in domestic violence cases, Pfeifer said he hurriedly closed the file. One week later, Heron walked into his estranged wife's hospital room and shot both her and her 68-year-old mother to death."

I agree with you Palopu, that criminal charges COULD actually be laid in this instance.
But I won't be holding my breath!
I think until some of those who inflict this kind of treatment on citzens,it's going to keep happening and probably get worse.
But then, it isn't just the attitude of the RCMP or any other cops, it's also the attitude of our politicians who sit back and allow it to go on and say nothing.
What is REALLY scary is that we actaully ELECTED these people, believing that they would look after our best interests and yet they do nothing!!
Great leadership eh?

Wrong heidi. The rcmp commisioner has prompted the rank and file of the rcmp to write to him personally in order to get things out in the open.. was in an article of the province newspaper.

Yes I heard that on the news that's why I made clear that that article was back to 2006. That said how many officers of 2007 do you think will be brave enough to go against others and write the commisioner?

Raparee; the point is that Rodney King lived and collected damages. The beauty of a Tazer (from the point of defending brutality lawsuits)is that it leaves no marks, and occasionally kills its victims. In neither case does the victim get any benefit, and furthermore there is no evidence to convict the cop that used it, either legitimately or not. If the cops had to use billy clubs, there is physical evidence to prove what happened. 17 people have died in Canada from its use. What other product would we allow that has that kind of track record?

(a) Understand that Citizens have rights and cannot be subjected to excessive force until all other avenues to control the situation have been tried.
- Actually, I do understand this. Citizens shouldn't be subjected to EXCESSIVE force until other alternatives have been explored. I wasn't there, and I doubt you were either, but how much time did airport security spend trying to calm this guy before calling the police?

(b) Are trying to imply that an individual in distress, should be considered a dangerous criminal and treated as such.
- An individual in distress, who is throwing chairs and furniture around a room, who barracades himself in a room while brandishing a stapler and ranting incomprehensibly is a dangerous criminal and should be treated as such. It's not like this guy was sobbing gently in the corner and the police walked up and executed him. There was a reason the police got involved.

(c) Have little or no concern as to how this type of policing impacts on Canadians
- Canadians have now been reminded that police will respond if they are being threatened by a large, violent, man, and that the police are willing to use force to ensure their safety.

(d) Seem to have forgotten that the Police join the force voluntarily and are to police as per the guidelines set out by those who pay their wages. If they dont like the rules they can quit. Canadian citizens , not the police will decide how things will be done in this Country
- Where in this whole tragedy did the police step outside protocol? Maybe the Canadian citizen, who should decide how the police operate, should gain a better understanding of what it is the police do, and the things that they face on a daily basis. Until then, the Canadian citizen is just flapping their ignorant gums.

e) There is a very good chance that Criminal Charges could be laid in this issue. At the very least it will shine a bright light on Policing in Canada, which in my opionion will not be a bad thing.
- If criminal charges are appropriate, then criminal charges should be laid. No one is above the law. And shining a light on policing in Canada would be a good thing, although I doubt a lot of the people, on this board particularly, would accept what that light reveals.

See Tim you say my opinion is not right as I wasn't there. You were not there and yet you already know how this will come out. That's the problem. They investigate themselves and nothing we all see or care about matters. We have no power. We are not the enemy here we are the voice of the deceased. Notice I said we are not the enemy here. How many more families including the families of the deceased officers (who should not work alone or be thrown into serious matters with little experience) must live in this insanity? Now instead of trying to beat us all down mentally (not sure that can happen to me but stranger things have happened in this world) why not just show your case and leave it at that. Showing your ugly side just makes the death look worse on your side which comes to make me think oh god look what works in my city!

Posted by: pisspulper on November 17 2007 10:04 AM
Posted by: dgdiggler on November 16 2007 6:25 PM
Hey reparee, don't worry about heidi...she's just transferring all of her frustration over from the st arnaud thing...no father for her kid and all that stuff.....

Ok Ben, this is not your fault. Just a insight into what i mean when i say "stupid postings". Stupid is the polite version of what i'd rather say. For those of who know Heidi and her circumstances, you should all be appalled regardless of your opinion of her. This is absolutely abhorrent commentary, especially the last line. It's no wonder she didn't retort, so i'll help her out. DGDIGGLER you are truly a ****** idiot. Not that you haven't already proven that to most people on 250. What kind of of moron makes a statement like that, albeit not your first time. DG your obviously not mature enough to be posting anything, and yes youv'e proven that also. Be a man and apologize. Otherwise, keep your non-constructive assinine remarks in the back corner of the bat cave you reside.

Heidi if the inquiry reveals that the police did nothing wrong, that policy was followed and the gentleman's death was the result of some other physical ailment, would you accept that? Would you accept the findings of a qualified board on enquiry?
"Breast feeding the ones who are in the wrong..." Judgement, not opinion. In your eyes case closed, police bad.

"Beating you down mentally", "showing you my ugly side"? Is having a differing view THAT offensive to you?

Are we married? I'll try not to judge. It's so hard to be the bigger person in all of this. I guess time will tell. How long until the inquest? I must say though what is offensive is we have one more premature funeral.

I have to agree with pisspulper...
dgdiggler, I hope you are just a nightwatchman pretending to be a cop. Or you should be.

"- Actually, I do understand this. Citizens shouldn't be subjected to EXCESSIVE force until other alternatives have been explored."

Oh really ? Did you write your NCO with this opinion ?

Once other alternatives have been considered, EXCESSIVE force against civilians is warranted ? Interesting...is that what you learned from the use of force guidelines ? How much of the class did you sleep through ?

dgdiggler, you should publicly apologize to Heidi or stop passing yourself off as a member. Period.

Some of us really are or were members and some of us look forward to the day that we can openly admit that and maybe even be proud of it.

You're confusing me with that @@@@head, diggler, and, yes, in my mind, excessive force (and it seems that many feel that the use of the taser WAS excessive) can be justified once all other options have been considered and rejected. What's the alternative? A raving man can't be reasoned with, OC spray would endanger others, physical restraint with a highly agitated, large man would result in injuries to the police AND to the large, highly agitated man. The police used a tool that would incapacitate (sp) the individual while preventing injury to themselves, bystanders, and the person being dealt with... a tool that in 98% of the time is effective and produces no long term harm to the person being tased.

Raparee. The man was in the Custody of the Immigration people for six or more hours. In addition he was in the Canada Customs area an additional 3 hours. No doubt a lot of things happened during this time.

In any event he was not a raving criminal.

"What's the alternative?"

It's legally defined as reasonable force.
Excessive force is force far exceeding that which is necessary. (and no, I didn't confuse you two)

"A raving man can't be reasoned with, OC spray would endanger others, physical restraint with a highly agitated, large man would result in injuries to the police AND to the large, highly agitated man. The police used a tool that would incapacitate (sp) the individual while preventing injury to themselves, bystanders, and the person being dealt with... a tool that in 98% of the time is effective and produces no long term harm to the person being tased."

Check, check and double check. Accurate on all counts. All of what you just said there is perfectly accurate and is exactly what should have been the case AFTER THEY ASSESSED THE SITUATION AND ATTEMPTED TO DEAL WITH IT IN A LESS FORCEFUL MANNER.

You'll notice I capitalized the important parts for the hearing impaired.

Then, they went so far as to kneel on his neck after he is handcuffed and restrained, then did nothing to remedy the situation once they realized there was a medical problem.

Here's the plain english version for any dummies in the crowd:

The police could have come off looking like heroes doing a tough job and defending themselves against a large angry man after he came at them with a stapler or some other mysterious weapon, when all they were trying to do was to talk to him.

Instead, they came off looking like a bunch of Hell's Angels with badges, bullies. They came in looking to brutalize somebody, and didn't leave disappointed.

They didn't need to kneel on his neck, you can make anybody tap dance like Fred Astaire by holding onto the links between the handcuffs. Or you have the option of backing away and leaving the guy handcuffed, lying on the floor to finish his tantrum. In any event, he is then no longer a threat to anybody.

Lastly, they just stood there when they realized there was a problem.

How can you expect anybody to perceive that for other than exactly what it appears to be ? How do you tell people they are not seeing what they are looking right at ?

I've seen excellent police work a half million times and this wasn't it.

Well said "reasonableman"!!