OUCH!

Now we need to see some real leadership from our government.
I am not really sure what can be done, but it is high time they stopped pretending all is well in B.C. because it is not!
Time to fight for those that elected them and PLEASE,...don't send Pat Bell this time!

This will affect Prince George being a service center to MacKenzie.

Yeah, you get the sense that it's like an elephant in the living room. Everyone knows it's a problem, yet nobody seems to want to talk about it.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is much the Government can do. If the operation isn't making money, it's not the Government's responsibility to bail them out. Perhaps some dough for re-training impacted workers and stuff like that should be contemplated. I think there IS some opportunity to show some leadership in regards to stuff like that.

MacKenzie is a town that was created by the Lumber companies with the expectation that it eventually would outlive its productivity. Unfortunately the MPB, softwood tariff dispute, and economic conditions south of the border have accelerated the town's demise. While the effects are devastating on a personal level to people's lives who work and live there (and in PG) its all about the numbers to these bureaucracies and the small number of people who own them. Even management (the tool of the owners) will be out on the curb.

Quite right NMG,it is not the governments responsibility to bail anyone out.
That seldom ever works, but they do have an obligation to the people of MacKenzie and the rest of B.C.to start talking about alternatives.
The trickle down effect from this will be huge and sticking their collective heads in the sawdust won't help anyone.
They knew this was coming and it won't be the last either.

Agree with you 100% there Andyfreeze.

Lets spend more money on the olympics.

What do the Olympics have to do with Abitibi shutting down some of the mills? There is no correlation

zoom I think travism is saying what a lot of people think, the government of BC ignores the north in order to take care of the Lower Mainland.

The B.C.government has been putting the spin on the B.C.economy in general to bolster the Olympics.
About the only place the economy is strong is on the lower mainland and even that will crash as we get closer to 2010.
Watch what happens to house prices,jobs etc.because much of what is happening down there is based on infrastructure projects for the Olympics themselves.
Up here,it never was that great, but they choose to downplay that too!

Can they cancel the olympics? Think of the tax dollars it will save!

Andy,

Williams Lake is thriving. Who knows for how long... but house prices have almost doubled in two years or so.... mining is thriving and more on the way....

Abitibi has been junk stock for years, they missed the last peak on the pulp side which put them behind the 8ball. Surprising they hung on this long.

Unfortunatly, and it's easy to say since it isn't my job (yet) that has been eliminated but this is what NEEDS to happen. The market is oversupplied. We got to where we are because everyone ramped up production to fill the demand created by an artificial U.S. market that was created by the sub prime mortgages.

Even though I realize TRAVISM is being sarcastic with the Olympics money comment I think rather than a bail out of forest companies so we see more of the same, let's stop repeating the process and diversify into tourism etc.

Consider this, before EXPO '86 where was Vancouver?



If you answered Washington state YOU ARE CORRECT.

zoom,

How many kilometers of the highway between Hope and the Alberta border (Dawson Creek way)could they have 4 laned with the money they spent on the party on the pacific? Which do you think would have been better for the BC economy?

It is time for the politicians both local and provincial to stop blowing sun shine up our collective asses and admit the hard truth; we are not going to benefit economically from the olympics. This is especially true for our region. It is time to cut our loses and figure out how to diversify not how to get rich off the olympics.

Unlike the mills back east, which are shut down *permanently*, the MacKenzie operations are just being idled (until next summer?), if there is a silver lining in the cloud.

I remember the BC Critical Industries Commissioner of the 1980's.

Perhaps some similar CIC agreements could be made, such as deferral of hydro payments and municipal property taxes to get the mills up and running earlier?

In 2001 the Campbell government made wholsale changes to forest policy which started a chain of events that has resulted in the virtual destruction of the
industry's abiliy to be competitive.
Instead, what has occured is that fewer comanpanies control more of the timber and smaller players, contractors and loggers will be putout of bsiness along with the big guys.
More and more smaller communities will become the victims of the ill conceived and shallow decision made in 2001. When will the North get the attention of government in Victoria?

Unlike the mills back east, which are shut down *permanently*, the MacKenzie operations are just being idled (until next summer?), if there is a silver lining in the cloud.

I remember the BC Critical Industries Commissioner of the 1980's.

Perhaps some similar CIC agreements could be made, such as deferral of hydro payments and municipal property taxes to get the mills up and running earlier?

reality,

I agree we don't need the olympics money to bail out abitibi. We need to provide the infrastructure to open up the province. We are years behind Alberta when it comes to our road ways.

woodpecker: blaming the forestry mess on the LIBERAL's couldn't be further from the truth. The NDP when asked to lower the stumpage to make an incentive to process MPB wood would not comply. So the greedy forest companies didn't log it. We all know what happened next!

Lower the stumpage to deal with the problem in the first place and it's likely the outbreak is contained.

"We are years behind Alberta when it comes to our road ways"

Two things:

1) If our Province was situated on a prairie, the roads would be much easier and cheaper to build.

2) If PG had 1,000,000 people living here (like Edmonton), I'm fairly sure that the roads would have been expanded.

I'm actually getting tired of all the "us poor folks in the North" argument. Face reality folks, we live in a city of 75,000 people and we are BY FAR the largest city in the entire northern half of the Province. How much dough would you expect is a fair amount to flow into our coffers? All things considered, I think we've actually done pretty good in recent memory.

We really need to get out of this "we are a victim" mindset. It's pathetic and it IS NOT the mindset of the Prince George that I grew up loving.

Yes, travism, the Liberals from day one (after they took over a province that had been mismanaged from being number One to being number Ten) had only one thing in mind: Cynically and brutally create one big mess after the other, on purpose, to make 100% sure that they would not be re-elected!

A very believable scenario, right? Wouldn't it make more sense to mention the real reasons for the present malaise: The faulty softwood lumber agreement, the mountain pine beetle, the collapse of the US housing market and the high Canadian dollar - none of these can be blamed on the B.C. government by any reasonable person.

"What do the Olympics have to do with Abitibi shutting down some of the mills? There is no correlation."

There is absolutely none whatsoever, indeed.

Best to start harping and whining about off shore oil right now seeing as how governments move like glaciers when it comes to starting or doing anything. Oil and gas offshore will save our butts. Trees are history. Mining? So so. But not enough to make a difference.

Why do we need more infrastructure to places that are becoming ghost towns?

The Olympics have nothing do with Abitibi closing, but the money that the Liberals are spending on the Olympics could be used to help the communities and the people who are losing their jobs as a result of the downturn in the forest industry. In my opinion, it's a waste of our tax dollars that could be put to better use.

When the Feds....Harper and Emerson introduced the softwood deal the industry squaked saying it was a bad deal.

It was Canada giving into Bush and the US special interest groups.

The govt. called industry leaders to ottawa....West fraser, Abitibi, Canfor, Tolko, Tembec to name a few.

The govt. advised this is the deal nod your head and support it or else.

West fraser was the only company take a stand stateing that it was a short lived cash cow that would cripple the industry.
Abitibi....John Weaver said short lived or not he wanted the cash for shareholders and long term if it crippled his company, the communities so be it.
West fraser was right.

The similar scenario was with the takeover of BC Rail by CN.
Most parties objected....the govt pushed industry and local govt.s to sign off.

Here we sit with one of the biggest monopolies maing huge dollars and sticking it to the industry that feeds them.

Brilliant.

There is a lot of truth in that pisspulper!
They used to have to mill it where they logged it, but that no longer applies.
It's only a matter of time for many small towns with a one horse forest economy unfortunately.
For some,maybe mining will happen to keep them alive,but they will be few and far between.

"The faulty softwood lumber agreement, the mountain pine beetle, the collapse of the US housing market and the high Canadian dollar - none of these can be blamed on the B.C. government by any reasonable person."

The BC govt. can and should take some of the blame in the MPB and the softwood agreement.

"Williams Lake is thriving"

I won't argue this but it certainly isn't because of the forest industry.

The forest employs more people in the cariboo than any other sector and not 1 company in the region is making money.

They are all bleeding badly.

leoleo gets it. How is it that we in the North are "represented" in Ottawa by people who deliberately screwed is with the so called Softwood Lumber Agreement. The only people really agreeing were Harper, Emerson and Emerson's butt-plug, who was running Canfor at the time. The Conservatives in Ottawa ordered the death of profitability in the forest business at the absolute worst possible time. Their shortsightedness has destroyed us - we who were the economic backbone of BC are represented by our own killers.

VOTE RHINO - They can't do any worse

One of the reasons we ended up with a softwood lumber agreement was because Canadian Producers were dumping lumber into the US Market and killing off American Mills. We always like to think we are innocent of any wrong doing, and its all the Americans fault. What a bunch of whiners.

Canadian Mills in BC (Canfor etc:) went to three shifts in 1999, this allowed them to increase production, and reduce costs, and flood the US Markets. They continued to do this until the last agreement was signed. After which they received huge rebates on every stick of lumber they shipped into the US.

Once the rebates were received, the 15% tax on exports if the price of lumber fell below $300.00 per FBM came into effect, the price of lumber dropping to $200.00 Per FBM and the Canadian dollar rising to par with the US dollar, the game was over.

The next move was to go to 2 shifts,lay off hundreds of workers, and down the road close a few mills. This still allows them to supply their main customers, at least at cost. Those who could not stay in the game have fallen to the wayside.

While all this is going on Jim Pattison, through his Company Great Pacific Industries, continues to buy up Canfor shares which have plummeted from 14.00 to 8.00. Jimmy is now the Majority shareholder in Canfor, and will someday own it outright.

I think that this is a "for sale" sign put out by Abitibi. Remember that the Pope and Talbot mill is going to be bought very soon by someone. Abitibi's mills in Mackenzie would make for a nice fit. Abitibi/Bowater is bleeding red ink, and Mackenzie is their only operation in BC-so it can go. It'll be sold-just watch.

I predict Weyerhauser.

NMG .... bang opn with your post!!!!! one of the few that makes some sense. Most everyone else wants a hand out.

One of these days this community will thrive because it is here, there is infrastructure here to build on, and there are enough people who are interested in being in a smaller community.

The biggest hurdle I see that we have to overcome is that those people who talk about "smart" growth actually understand what it means, other than it being a mere buzz word, and will actually cause smart growth to happen in this community. So far, there is far too much "stupid" growth that I see.

Just as the south is increasing capacity to improve lifestyle, we need to do the same.

Maybe we could use all the spare sawdust to heat our homes?

Maybe we could use all the spare sawdust to heat our homes?....

Weyerhaeuser will not be buying anything in Mackenzie....they are actively exiting Canada.


"After which they received huge rebates on every stick of lumber they shipped into the US.

Once the rebates were received....."

No Canadian mill received a rebate.

"This still allows them to supply their main customers, at least at cost."

There is not any mill supplying at cost.

Andyfreeze says .."Now we need to see some real leadership from our government.
I am not really sure what can be done, but it is high time they stopped pretending all is well in B.C. because it is not!
Time to fight for those that elected them and PLEASE,...don't send Pat Bell this time!"

HeeHee, ya lets send Carol Tames, HeeHee! Now that should be enough doom and gloom for anyone. Carol will tell anyone in Mackenzie that, if they lost their shirt, well Carol wants their pants too! HeeHee! Andyfreeze makes a funny.

Hey, maybe the NDP will promise to drain the lake so Mackenzie has more ground to grow trees? And then when elected, build the dam higher to feed power to Vancouver, HeeHee!

10 times worse for Mackenzie, but 14% better for Abitibi shareholders:

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071130.wabitibifollow1130/BNStory/robNews/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20071130.wabitibifollow1130

"...because Canadian Producers were dumping lumber into the US Market and killing off American Mills."

Americans love to have a plentiful supply of low priced high quality Canadian lumber so that they can afford large homes at an affordable price.

What about the word FREE in the North American Free Trade Agreement? So we have a plentiful supply of a natural resource and we are efficient at producing and exporting it.

Sure enough, the lobbyists of the American lumber producers bullied Washington into bullying us.

What is so fair and reasonable about that?

Why should we accept boycotts and illegal tariffs (unlawful by NAFTA, GATT and WTO regulations) and cave in to some special interest groups which were in fact opposed in the USA by American consumer groups?

The Japanese put the American television manufacturers out of business and the Chinese are doing the same with virtually every other American (and Canadian) electronics, tools, toys and other manufactures!

Has anyone heard of any punishing tariffs against those imports???

Check Walmart and see how many American and Canadian made products you can locate.

Canada caved in (thanks to Steve) and that is too bad.

Diplomat. This is what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket. 80% of the lumber produced in Canada is sold to the good old USA. At this point we do not have any other significant customers to buy our lumber.. The Americans on the other hand can source lumber from all over the world, and are in fact now selling lumber into Canada.

Had we developed markets years ago, rather than sitting on our fat asses, and selling everything to the Yanks we might be in a different situation to-day.

In a year and a half after this market correction, we will continue to sell to the US market. We will probably have substaintially less jobs, and less producing mills, however those mills that survive will be back to making huge profits.

Possible sub prime loan prop up by U.S. government coming. Could help it from getting any worse here. But I don't think it will get any better for a while.........

Palopu, I agree. The USA is just across the border so it makes a lot of sense simply to transport the lumber exports to the closest customers.

The Americans seldom live up to the trade agreements they sign. They always have disputes going on with most other countries they deal with.

When you are big you can throw your weight around and not care on whose toes you are stepping.

If we don't develop other markets we will always be victims of the boom and bust cycles down south which enable some people to get richer and richer.

You all realize this isn`t about people, never has been and never will be.

The upside is that there is a large pool of both men and women to fill some ten to twenty positions in P.G. that are going begging at $50,000 to start.
Imagine that, commuting to work in P.G. from Mackenzie, not a bad idea????

Who would have thunk it?

Let's all do some shopping in MacKenzie and save Christmas. We can work out the other problems in the New Year, but let's get them through Christmas.