Ice Jam Breaker Option

Saturday, January 12, 2008 05:50 AM

Amphibex at work , photo courtesy Normrock Industries

Prince George, B.C. - A New Brunswick company that specializes in breaking up ice jams says they have not been contacted by anybody from either the City of Prince George or the Provincial Emergency Program. Paul Laplante operates a company out of New Brunswick that has, in addition to breaking up the ice on the Rideau River, broken up an ice jam, 9 kilometers long on the St François River in Quebec.

His company, Eco Technologies is shown on their web site breaking up ice thats 36 inches thick and up to five meters high.

The machine the company uses is manufactured by Normrock industries (picture at work at right, courtesy Normrock Industries) and has been used widely across Canada and the USA.

When asked if his company could undertake such a task on the Nechako, Laplante says "From looking at the pictures of the ice jam on Opinion250, it would be necessary to break the ice from the Fraser up to the Nechako to allow the ice from the jam to gather somewhere" . He said he would like to see the area in question but felt his company could do the job.

At 12noon on Friday Opinion250 communicated with the EOC in Prince George in charge of the flood mitigation efforts to pass the information along to those in command. Included in that information was also a link to the Manitoba Government who have purchased their own Amphibex Excavator and have used the machine successfully to break up ice jams in Manitoba, some up to 20 kilometers long.

The fact that such equipment exists was brought forward by a 250 reader, who is a stay at home mom , she found the information and passed it on to our readers a few days ago.

Both ice expert engineers have not, to the best of our knowledge, put forward any information regarding such equipment and the owner of the company in New Brunswick who specializes in ice jams says he has not heard from anyone other than the 250 reporter.

We contacted the Provincial Eemergency Pogram of British Columbia and passed the information onto them.

Laplante says he would like to fly to Prince George with one of his operators to look over the ice jam first hand, but know one has called. The equipment rents for $500 dollars an hour and Laplante says usually when you get the jam moving it goes out on its own.

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Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 05:50 AM in News by 250 News

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Comments

Posted by: acrider54 on January 12 2008 6:17 AM

Seems to me this was Heidi's idea.

Posted by: flood guy on January 12 2008 7:23 AM

Great Heidi !

This is the new and improved version of the original plan of a hoe on a barg, perhaps with a boom boat working with it.

I think the province shud buy one as a provincial resource to be shipped wherever needed. Maybe hire one for this job...

Posted by: heidi1555 on January 12 2008 7:40 AM

:) Thanks! It just seemed that there was an easier way to get things done. It's driving me crazy seeing people out of work/home. Plus I love to google :) My kids often hear me say, "I'll look that up!" lol poor things.

Posted by: BCRacer on January 12 2008 7:50 AM

Having read this and rereading the story about the ICE JAM EXPERT...who told us there is nothing that can be done except ride it out. Then he returned and pretty much said the same thing.
Not sure why he was called back to start with ....so he could get another pay check and atill do nothing.....
I want that job...

I guess he isn't all tha much of an "expert" in my opinion.
Or does that mean expert "FLEECER:?????? I ask

Posted by: flood guy on January 12 2008 8:01 AM

Most of these flood experts can give you information overload about how a flood is made and that it will go away in the spring. Most of them don't have "boots in the water" experience, but are great at attending meetings.

The problem here is really that the officials in charge with the funding authority did not recognize the problem at the get go, when they should have been on it like ravens on road kill.

Posted by: giterdun on January 12 2008 8:25 AM

DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANYONE IN CITY HALL THAT HAS BALLS ENOUGH TO ADMIT THAT THEY SCREWED UP AND MAYBEE GIVE THIS GUY A CALL?

Posted by: flood guy on January 12 2008 8:30 AM

Maybe John Brinkman's group wud at least understand what the unit is, how it works, talk to the guy and pay the travel expenses for the two guys to come, see, taste, smell, and opinionate...

The, with that behind you, the city might ask the province to buy one and you'll have it for next time...

Posted by: diplomat on January 12 2008 8:34 AM

No. Nobody will admit that they are mortal human beings like us, prone to making mistakes and not being fully clued in all the time.

Brink would have one of those ice breakers in Prince George and on the job within a week.

The City believes the *expert* who pronounced that nothing can be done except wait for spring.

Posted by: Andyfreeze on January 12 2008 8:48 AM

Good research Heidi!
This machine (or a similar one)was actually on a TV program a year or so ago.
Don't remember what program,not that it matters.
If I recall,it sure looked like it worked great, and it's very odd the city hasn't at least called and had a chat with them!!!
Duh!

Posted by: NMG on January 12 2008 8:50 AM

For the cost of a couple of airplane tickets, it's definitely worth it to at least fly the guy out here to get his opinion!
Take him to the site, fly him up and down the river, let him talk to the other stakeholders who have been involved, etc. It's an absolute no-brainer IMHO.

Posted by: Ragtop on January 12 2008 9:01 AM

Just like I said a while back grab a barge and tug and excavators from Ootsa Lake and get at it!!!

Posted by: charles on January 12 2008 9:15 AM

Heidi for mayor.

Posted by: woodpecker on January 12 2008 9:38 AM

Here is a piece of good news. Rumour has it that the Nechako Indury group is negotiating to buy or lease one of these babies.

Posted by: meisner on January 12 2008 9:49 AM

Readers;
Indeed it was Heidi who found the machine and the information. I didn't want to use her name so she might remain private , but I did get to talk to her off line , to tell her that I had passed the information on.
She is the stay at home Mum that I referred to in the story, so now that she says who it was , the bird is out of the cage and we all thank Heidi for some very good digging. Now what happened to those expensive Ice Experts ?

Posted by: doc on January 12 2008 9:52 AM

Haven't heard anything about Alcan lately??

Posted by: Chester on January 12 2008 10:19 AM

Could the real problem be something other than the ice? Seems to me that there appears to be a struggle between people or agency's for control.

Or, between all of the agency's and people involved, nobody really wants to make the decisions. Seems to me to be a real lack of leadership, direction and ability to make a unified decision.

If I was asked what I think, I would suggest too many people are involved to make the decisions. Instead of 20?, how about 6 people? As I don't know exactly how many people are meeting and discussing this each day, I will guess there are far too many with an opinion and nothing gets accomplished. Chester

Posted by: bohemian on January 12 2008 10:25 AM

Many have posted here that they can't wait for the next election. But a new council without a serious shake-up (read firing or demotion) of city management would be pointless.

Hopefully there will be a new council and they will say to Derek Bates (new city manager) "Here's your axe, here's you're carrot, and here's your stick. You've got 6 months to fix the corporate culture at the city."

Posted by: unitas77 on January 12 2008 10:27 AM

if the city would only give the people who live here a chance and not pass us off as ignorant folk, we could have a problem solved. We need to shake up the city, it is clear the city is moving in a new direction. PG was built on loyalty, on the industrial boom of the 70's. It now seems to be moving in a different direction and now they turn to Canfor as the savior. Canfor has turned it's back on the city a long time ago. Yes, Canfor may have helped shape the city in the past, but no longer does it support the city. They contract work out to companies outside Northern BC, even well into Alberta. Canfors roots are NOT in this community, Get the Amphibex in here, the cost would be so much less then the proposed piping from Canfor. Canfor will look like a hero but our pockets will be a hell of a lot lighter because of the cost. There is no sufficient evidence that shows we have done anything to make the problem better. Companies are getting richer because of this tragedy, and some are losing because of it (brink, winton, etc) If council would look at all suggestions, even from the common folk, make there decisions based on the best solution possible rather then thinking they know the best for the city. It is obvious they dont.

Posted by: flood guy on January 12 2008 10:32 AM

If you want some entertainment for the day, type in "Amphibex" on Google. Follow the many threads - seems these things are sold globally.

Posted by: Andyfreeze on January 12 2008 11:10 AM

Doc has a good point...we haven't heard a word from Alcan lately.
What's up with that?
Just seems like they should at least have an interest in what is happening,even if people are being told they are not the problem?
I really wonder if that is completely true?
Chester also has a valid point.
There does seem to be a power struggle happening!

Posted by: Harbinger on January 12 2008 11:54 AM

Someone say the phrase "Airplane Tickets"? That ought to get the mayor to poke his nose out of his gopher hole. And as an aside if we do have to buy the machine, we can always park it up on the top of Connaught Hill when not in use.

Posted by: Harbinger on January 12 2008 11:58 AM

$500 dollars an hour? Does that include travel time? Wow! What a return on investment that is. But then again the guy in charge of the Mulroney/Schreiber affair gets $1100 per day. But then again he might have to buy his own lunch with that.

Posted by: owl on January 12 2008 12:31 PM

"The equipment rents for $500 dollars an hour"

How much does a feller-buncher or harvester rent for per hour? These machines cost more. According to a Manitoba site, the second first one they bought was in the $350,000 range with the new and improved version costing $1.25 million.

They likely sit around a lot so may not get used for more that 500 or so hours of actual operating time a year. In addition, I would think that there would be considerable and expensive maintenance on such a thing. It is not exactly a standard production car.

I also suspect the time includes the operator time since this is not exactly the type of machinery that one would let an inexperienced operator use.

Posted by: thereasonableman on January 12 2008 12:32 PM

Harb, let's count wages, repairs and maintenance, food and lodging, and the initial purchase cost. $500 an hour is not out of line for an out-of-town machine and operator along with the maintenance and repair requirements. It's not just a worker living in the cab of a machine.

A Vac Truck, which can be had locally, goes out at $250 per hour in the oil patch, and it goes home every night.

Great work, Heidi !

Posted by: diplomat on January 12 2008 2:50 PM

"Many have posted here that they can't wait for the next election."

Yes, indeed.

"But a new council without a serious shake-up (read firing or demotion) of city management would be pointless."

Not entirely, because a new mayor and council can start fresh and have a totally different approach.

This ice jam may turn out to have been the much needed positive catalyst for change and renewal!

Cheers!

Posted by: Palopu on January 12 2008 5:31 PM

Has anyone noticed that the Amphibex floats on water. This jam appears to be the result of ice jamming on gravel and silt. If this is so the the best you can hope for is to clear a channel to get the water to run, however it will no doubt jam again because of the major silting.

Short term solution but much better than no solution

Posted by: flood guy on January 13 2008 7:35 AM

I guess that's why the guy is coming to check it out. On his web site there is a picture of several miles of channel he cut in the middle of a frozen river to do just what Palopu said. I suspect that the open channel wud then eat away at the ice beside it and there is a chance that over a few dyas it would all go away, or not.

Posted by: econ101 on January 13 2008 8:14 AM

When do we stop messing with with mother nature. First we build dams for generation, then we need to mitigate the dam.

Think of the damage/devastation/disruption to the river bed and what that spells to the marine life that use it.

Oh ya I guess we thought about that when we put in the Kenny Dam. As for industry in the area, I hope they have insurance, I do.