Too true. The unions power is long over due for a reduction in their life and death authority. Weight lists really are a function of union power, ask anyone that had to use the system.

Seems to me the useless Liberal provincial government has 14 billon for transit on the coast but can't do a thing for health care. Shows where their priorities lay.

We need both: health-care AND transit improvements. In addition there is education, highways...you name it.

Increased federal transfer payments would help. Billions are being spent on the military overseas. And the plan is to keep spending on that for decades to come without any guarantee of permanent results.

Perhaps we could use all that money right here to look after our own needs in health-care first?

I know this is probably a politically incorrect thing to say but I'll keep saying it because it's a fact.

YDPC...you have no idea what you are talking about and its "wait" for waiting list!Go get a job in healthcare and see how much authority your union has.

I think YDPC is just jealous. Whats your problem anywhy?

Exactly...14 billion for transit here in B.C.and billions pissed away in military spending by the federal government!
And you can't get surgery that just might save your life without playing russian roulette while you wait!
The B.C.Liberals under Gordon Campbell need a major tune-up and we as voters need to give it to them!
Sooner than later, because the scam has gone on long enough!
(and I voted liberal!)
Ralph Klein is right on the money!!
Wonder if he wants to move to B.C.?

diplomat you are so right, spending all the money on the military and a war in Afghanistan ,but we do have to protect the Poppy Production our addicts need it and the USA started War has to be won, Busch and Harper say so, Ha Ha!

"in the past, funding for the environment was seen as tossing dollars into a ’black hole’, now environmental research and ’green’ businesses are booming."

You know Charles got me thinking the other day in a different article. He was concerned because our healthcare system is failing. Now Klein is calling on the new leaders to do what he couldn't do but what if they fail at it as well. Just like us changing our ways to be more enviromentally freindly and going green well we must do the same for our bodies. We can't wait for the healthcare system to change because some of us won't live that long. With the proper way of eating and exercise it's been proven to help conquer certain diabetes, high blood pressure and so on. I know we can't control all health matters but some we can. A smart man to take advice from is Dr. Oz...yes I saw him on Oprah :)
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200605/tows_past_20060501.jhtml

With all due respect to the person who wrote the headline, Ralph Klein's opinions on what will happen in health care are just his opinions, not an objective reality. Other people have different opinions. He may prefer to demonise those who disagree with his tunnel vision, but we live in a democracy and those other opinions carry at least as much weight as his, perhaps more since more people have them than have his.

Time after time, poll after poll, the general public (you know, the taxpayer) have made it clear they want a reliable and acessisble public health care system, as Gordon Campbell religiously promised he would give us several years ago. This taxpayers' opinion has been similarly expressed in every political jurisdiction in our country.

Where does Klein get off saying that in our democracy the taxpayers' wishes should be completely ignored and some system to open health care up to private profit making should be introduced as a huge foot in the door.

If politicians really and truly wanted to resolve this problem then they would carry out some democratically based process to do so.

I propose, as I have done before, that a People's Assembly be called into existence to resolve all questions regarding our health care system in BC, including the provision of services, funding and taxation, accessibility and any other issues that need to be decided. Let's have a real democratic debate on this issue, and let the debaters decide the issue for the next 50 years.

Don't hold your breath though. That would require the government in power to give up authority to the general public, and we all know how likely that is. Politicians are not that courageous.

To Yama,
wait lists are formed when a dsurgeon has more patients than time alotted to him for surgery. The length depends on the number of patients and the amount of time. I know of absolutely no patients who take their instructions from a union as to how to treat their diseases. It is the management of each hospital or health region doing surgery that allots the amount of time, and management in health care never takes what the unions want into account.

Wait lists have nothing to do with unions, that is your anti-union bigotry speaking. Wait lists are managed by the surgeon involved. Incidentally, the largest weight list in the province is Dr. Amson who has over 700 patients waiting, mostly for roux-en-Y.

ammonra...I believe we had a "Discussion on Healthcare" instituted by the Liberals a short time ago.
As usual,it did nothing, and that was no suprise.
We get what the government allows us to have,nothing more,and unfortunately,we put up with that crap!

Everyone panics when you mention two-tier health system, but you tell me what its called when my buddy twists his knee at work and gets an MRI paid for by WCB in a couple weeks and my kid who has his knee taken out has to wait for months for an MRI........and I'm told it will be the same if surgery is necessary. Or how about the hockey players.......if they need surgery, its right away, but if you are just John Smith get in line.

very true gitterdun!!!!

Andyfreeze, I was thinking of a People's Assembly as was set up to debate what kind of electoral system BC should have, not a Government directed and selected series of opinions that could be ignored.

I would like to see a decision making assembly. One from which the decisions become tht policy of the MOH regardless of which party forms the government.

The so called conversation on health was a farce and a waste of money. It did not agree with Campbell, so it is now being ignored.

Typical use of figures to make things look unsustainable. Remember all the budget cuts? When needed services and health worker wages were cut back without regard to consequences, the percentage paid towards healthcare, naturally jumped without any change in monies paid out (the total budget shrank). This is all smoke and mirrors to give corporations control of our healthcare system and unfortunately for the politicians the average Canadian is informed on this issue and thus refuses to go along with the corporate drivin, neoliberal ideology. That is why guys like Campbell and Klein use such deceptive tactics to try and convince us that our system of healthcare is unsustainable. Klein is yet another corporate puppet with his strings pulled by his owners. Only the uneducated buy their insulting attempts at tricking the public into thinking what they want us to think. Just like in Orwell's 1984 I think they called it doublespeak or politispeak I can't remember.

ICBC and WCB are both government established and supported groups. They operate under provincial legislation and are most definitely NOT for-profit groups out to make a return on investment. You may call it what you like, but the fact is that such access from Government controlled groups is authorised by the government in cooperation with the MOH for the benefit of BC and BCers.

I completely agree with WCB and ICBC being given access and paying for it at cost, or even underwriting employees for hospitals to guarantee availability of services (physio for instance).

I do not agree with private investors out to make a buck from the taxpayer being given the same access.

The power of unions have not been able to stop or even slow down the dictatorship of Premier Campbell.

When it comes to healthcare in the province the Doctors have always said give us all the money and we will solve all the problems in the healthcare system.

I think between Premier Campbell and the Doctors they have not solved any problems in the healthcare system but have made things worse.

I think this is one of those cases of adage of “the grass is always greener on the other side” fits well.

In the case of Canada and our healthcare system, the grass for some appears to be greener south of the border. In the case of the USA, more and more the grass for politicians as they address the healthcare issues in their campaigns seems to be greener north of their border.

Here is an article from 15 years ago.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1993/02/01/87817/index.htm

The perfect system? No way Jose! The same problems? In some cases yes, in other cases no. Less costly. No way Jose!!!!!! It is a well known fact that the USA has the most expensive healthcare system in the world, even when compared to the results one gets from the money.

As I continue to say in such things, “where, in the end, does the money come from?” Whether we pay through taxes, through MSP, through private insurance paid by us, through employer insurance paid by us since we could otherwise get the benefit of the additional salary form the employer, or directly by us, WE, the individuals who get the benefit of the service have to pay. There is no one else who will pay. The man in the moon is simply not in play in this case.

So, we have politicians on both sides of the Canada-US border calling to fix their respective country’s healthcare system, each pointing to the other’s system as the one they wish to get to.

What is wrong with this picture?

For each horror story on this side of the border, we can come up with 10 times the horror stories on the other side of the border simply because they have 10 times the population. Those people who have a mouth and know how to maneuver through the system get served the best on this side and the other side. It is a fact of everyday life.

As far as Klein goes, it appears that he is now being paid to lecture about his failures. Nice job if one can get it. The reality is for whoever is on power, Alberta is now built on oil. The province is the prime benefactor of that. It has nothing to do with who is in power or how well or badly they do their job.

Klein has that typcial pompous look in the picture. Good shot!!!!

;-)

I'm not out to make a profit....I just want my kid to have the same access as everyone else or I should be able to pay for it AT COST if I want to. ICBC and WCB might be government established but they are paid for privately by those who buy insurance or employers who pay WCB premiums. It might be for "the benefit of BC and BCers" but it benefits a select few only in certain circumstances and thats still not right.

BTW, here is what happened to my father during the past months. He was being treated by the family physician. He was sent to a dermatologist to look after the issue. There was no urgency identified in the referral, 6 ot 8 weeks later he sees the dermatologist who states the small skin ulcer is cancerous and suggests he could have been in his office within a couple of days had the GP stated so.

The problem in this case from my an my parents' point of view. Not the quality of the system, but the quality of the individual.

No matter where such individuals practice, south or north of the border, the outcome would be the same. The only difference would be that for the time each put in the system, they would be paid 50% more. The quality of service would not change.

The problem is finite number of individuals working in the field. UBC has just doubled the number of doctors they will be graduating. That will still not meet the need of this province and will require doctors to come here from other parts of the world where they are either overproducing or underpaying.

So, if you are in line to buy a Big Mac, and you do not like the lineup, perhaps we need a system where you can identify at the order window that you want preferred service and have the order brought out to you ahead of those others in line.

The fact is, the kitchen can only make product at a certain rate. You getting your big mac ahead of others means they will wait longer.

And you want to pay the same amount for the big mac as others ....

LOL ..... now that is the funniest thing I have ever heard.

Stick to Subway I say. :)
Sorry about your father owl.

Says Andyfreeze: "The B.C.Liberals under Gordon Campbell need a major tune-up and we as voters need to give it to them!"

Using the NDP to give the Liberals a tune-up would be like taking your car for a tune-up and having a few pounds of sugar put in the gas tank.

So, who do we get to run the show?

;-)

Beats me but it sure would be nice to find someone who actually cares enough to make a difference.

"So,who do we get to run the show?"
Very good question Diplomat,and I don't have an answer!
I sure wish I did!
Unfortunately,the Campbell government knows that all too well!
And the arrogance of the likes of Gordon Campbell (aka the mayor of Vancouver)and his government toward those who do not live on the lower mainland, only shows that!
I think we are screwed, and we will find out just how badly by 2010,if not before!
(I also think Campbell's arrogance prevents him from hearing the footsteps coming up behind him!
They sound suspiciously like a 500 dollar pair of Gucci's)!
Cheers!

Subway is a good idea, Heidi .. :-)

BLT subway ... hold the bacon and bun and we got it made healthwise ....

;-)

Hmm turf the nurse's union get new staff! They are off the pay scale! Cap wages $25.00 per hour bring in nurse’s from foreign countries like Mexico and Philippines. They would give us better care and appreciate the wage that they get. Union is way to strong and it is more based on how much they can make rather than caring more about our health care as a whole.
The last strike you all held turned me and most of the other working stiffs off for good.
With what i am paying them now i rather put the extra wages into training of our loyal LPN and Homecare workers. Enough of the “we are worth this much.....”
Never hear or see the Nurse’s union echoing how little Truckers, Loggers, farmers and many other professions earn. The wage scale is way off balance,and people are suffering as a result of them! Hat is and always will be off To Mr. Klein..............cheers

Remember, nurses used to go to the US to get MUCH better paying jobs than here. For all I know, they still do.

Union or no union, it is a "free" country and people move about the world "freely". Many, especially younger grads will move to where the money is.

So, great plan, getajob. Got any others like that which will help solve the problem?

The current healthcare system we are funding isn't working. And it's going to get worse. Throwing more money at it isn't going to make a bit of a difference. Why don't you ask the Doctor's over 50 and who are working between 80 and 100 hours per week if more money is going to change their schedule. There aren't enough Doctors. And the new ones aren't willing to pick up the slack to relieve the older ones. The time is coming when the seasoned Doctors are going to just pack it in or burn out. More money will not improve this situation.

We need to look at healthcare from a different perspective. And it needs to be managed differently. Chester

Klien says "The health-care system, I don’t know if it will ever make money...." I have serious ethical issues with the creation of a profit-driven health care system. (Heart transplanets this week only, half price!). What next, do we let the education system go short-funded and say 'send your kids to a private school they can do it cheaper?' or if you want police protection go to the yellow pages? Nonsense. So where did the notion that health care should make money come from? It was driven by corporate interests operating under the radar, using lobby groups and subtle manipulations of public opinion, and not-so-subtle manipulaitons of our politicians. Some of us are buying into it but the fact is 'yes health care is a public expense that ensures everyone has equal access'. I know that's not 100% true in the real world but it is something we all strive for. As long as there are fallible people who can be bought off there will exist some inequality. But that's not the major portion of the issue is it? Fact is, the poor, underpriveleged and unable would slip through the cracks of a pay as you can system.
As far as how the system has gotten increasingly expensive is no surprise- between better technologies, higher wages, heavier bureaucracy and restrictions on medical training by self-serving groups such as the Medical associations- it's a wonder we still have a publicly funded medical system at all.
There is still a lot we can do, let's start by putting more emphasis on prevention of disease for one. How about charging a 'health restoration tax' to those corporations who manufacture and push junk food onto our population? Let's consider staying out of foreign countries 'for their own good'...hey that would save billions from military spending, or maybe trim a few millios from those CEO's wages (in Finland no one earms more than 10 times the average workers wage).
Or maybe we can adjust the monetary system so the government is not paying market interest rates to private banks in order to build hospitals- remember in the 'old days' when the government (the people) actually owned the Bank of Canada and interest rates were lower and govt bank loans were also a way to get money into the economy? That would save us a few more billions across the board.
For a good look into what a classic privately run health system looks like watch Michael Moore's documentary 'Sicko' for a real eye opener.

The comment re Registered Nurses wages must is hilarious. How much do you pay for a mechanic, plumber, carpenter? Registered Nurses are finally paid what they are worth not "women's wages" as they were paid in the past. The decent and respectful wages paid has attracted more to the profession, (even men sign up now) but there is still a major shortage of nurses all over the world. Poaching from other contries is unethical.

Hmmm well the strike that they went out on sure was sending the wrong message.
Regarding “poaching” as you called it. Well that’s an interesting term however, if that’s what is required to look after our own then poach away. We still need to get wages back at a respectable level. It still stands out that many are in it more for the money rather than the care. Hmm I look over at the staff at Hospice, the work load, stress and yet they shine at their profession. They produce top notch care and earn about 35% less than those at PGRH. So what is truly unethical is when the strike was on, and so many people suffered as a result of that. I say let’s put the question to the general tax payer…..and the result of that will be the peoples will. May you never get sick in BC…..cheers