Good one Carole James! a true politician looking for votes by using peoples safety as leverage for their party. If these people actually care about the welfare of the workers in this province then they would quit worrying about their own agenda and unite political parties to work on a common goal of enhancing safety for workers!

Good one, Northman! More interested in an opportunity to bash a politician than in providing safe working environment for forest workers!

Ammonra: quoted in Who Is Calling The Kettle Black "It also means people putting aside political partisanship and fighting together in common cause."

I agree with northman, wouldn't it be nice?

Carole James' tirades prove that there is not much of a chance that anyone is going to put aside extreme political partisanship and sniping, least of all those in opposition who claim to know everything better, as if ZERO deaths occurred in the forests industry during the desolate nineties!

Sorry ammonra,but I have to agree with diplomat and northman.
This is typical of Carole James, and her tirades accomplishes nothing!
When she can actually say she DID something,then I might look at it differently!

If we vote these bozos in again will they promise not to close all our mines? I seem to recollect that the NDP when it was in power weren't much for mines. 10% on welfare again, no trees, and mines closed down? Nah! I think I will suffer again with Gordo and his gang.

Why be sorry Andyfreeze? Free speech is free speech.

The duty of the Opposition is to oppose. All opposition parties do it, but why is it necessary to immediately and every single time carp about the points they make. You know, it is quite possible that sometimes the opposition may be right in what they say.

The report she was referring to did indeed make some very strong points about the lack of progress in safe working practices in the forest industry. Remarks of the kind made by Northman tend to infer that the problems are not real and just political posturing. They are not political posturing at all. The inaction has to stop and it is Carol James **DUTY** to do whatever she can to bring that about.

The lack of action has caused people to die, and the provincial government and other agencies blasted in the report must take responsibility for that. It has nothing to do with political partisanship by her, although obviously Northman thinks partisan comments should take priority. It is Carol James' job to make those points. It is what she is paid to do by us, the taxpayers. Clearly the provincial government is lacking in its desire to address these issues, since the unions have been complaining about deficiencies in these areas for years.

The bottom line is keeping people alive, isn't it? Or do snide remarks trump loggers' lives?

ammonra go back and re-analyze everything but the opening line of my post! Im pretty straight forward with my comments, i dont put in hidden meanings which means they are pretty straight forward! And if you think the current government isnt doing anyting about safety you havent worked in the bush or ran your own forestry business. Regardless of who is in power people will still be getting hurt in forest related occupations. Safety ultimatly relies on an individuals due dilligence and not a political party.

I say amen to Northman's post. We can't keep leaving it up to someone else to be concerned about our safety and our lives. We are all responsible, workers, unions, employers, government and even opposition party's. How about some unity between all of the stakeholders and begin working together, rather than criticizing and pointing fingers at everyone else but ourselves. We all need to be accountable. Chester

The same person who on another thread suggested:"It also means people putting aside political partisanship and fighting together in common cause" is now arguing for *the same old opposing everything the others do or haven't done* as Ms. James just demonstrated with her scathing and grating condemnation, imho.

How about a calm offer to work together, pulling on the same rope in the same direction?

Tirades of this caliber are going on ad infinitum in the Legislature and the *putting aside of political partisanship and fighting together in common cause* will just remain a pipe dream as long as there isn't a calmer attitude and more truthful assessment of the situations that affect all people, no matter whether they support one or the other party or no party at all.

Amen to both Northman's and Chester's posts! Nobody wishes to see anyone hurt or killed while doing a job anywhere and at anytime and that includes the present government.

Co-operation requires two to work together, not one side just keeping its mouths shut. It would be nice, but until such time as the government is willing to allow the opposition some say in how issues are dealt with in the province I suspect that it will be business as usual. There it is, like it or not, at least until the electoral system is changed.

The Auditor General blasted the various parties for the lack of safety in the forest industry. For Carol James to ignore the Auditor General's report would be unconscionable. Presuming that her motivation was political advantage rather than improving safety is a crass insult with no substantiation. That is how the first line of Northman's comments came across by setting to context for the rest.

Drawing attention to occupational safety is necessary. I was involved in OH&S myself in the past and the fact is that there is an obligation, both legal and moral, on employers to ensure safe working practices. Rather than pressuring employees to be more productive attention has to paid to putting safety first. Taking the focus away from the employer's legal responsibility and placing it on the employee leads to more dangerous conditions, not less. He who pays the piper calls the tune, remember. Read the other article on this subject.

Focusing on my quotation of someone else's comments in another thread does nothing to deal with that issue, other than deflect attention away from it.

NDP ?? Who is that ???


"This is the government that ignored recommendations to keep farm workers safe as far back as 2003," said Puchmayr.


I didn't realize that working on a farm was so dangerous. Maybe they are having problems with goats bunting people in the butt when they bend over.

Ammonra: "For Carol James to ignore the Auditor General's report would be unconscionable. Co-operation requires two to work together, not one side just keeping its mouths shut."

These two statements completely ignore what has been posted so far in this thread since it was suggested that "It also means people putting aside political partisanship and fighting together in common cause."

This is a great idea and a worthwhile one to consider by all the parties, imho.

Nowhere, with all due respect, has anyone suggested that Ms. James should IGNORE the report or just keep her mouth shut.

A calmer, less scathing, less yelling and less partisan approach would be more intelligent, more believable, more mature and more in tune with the seriousness of the matter at hand - which is fatalities in the forest industry.

As long as there are enough defenders of this type of shrill oral guerrilla warfare the politicians will never try a new approach.

What does the *New* in the name NDP mean? More of the same old same old?

Have a nice day.

Nowhere in the article does it say that Carol James was partisan, yelling and scathing.

The BC Liberals reduced many safety provisions in the workplace across the whole province. This is one area where the Liberals have failed. You can read these for more info.

[url]http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2008/forestrydeaths.html[url]

or

Deregulation hurt B.C. farm safety: expert

Last Updated: Friday, March 9, 2007 | 9:58 AM PT

CBC News

The safety of farm workers has been compromised by deregulation, says one of the authors of B.C.'s Employment Standards Act, which was passed in 1995 by the previous NDP government.

The Liberals amended the act after taking power in 2001 and also scrapped joint federal-provincial teams that conducted inspection blitzes of B.C. farms.
The van carrying 17 farm workers flipped onto the median in the Fraser Valley on Wednesday, killing three women.
(CBC)

University of B.C. business professor Mark Thompson is speaking out against those decisions, in the wake of this week's crash that claimed the lives of three farm workers in a van accident in the Fraser Valley.

"I mean, they just stopped enforcing employment standards, basically. They made the complaint mechanism so cumbersome that workers are discouraged from using it."

The provincial government said it's too early to draw conclusions about the causes of the horrific crash, and that the changes to labour laws have not reduced farm worker safety.

Labour Minister Olga Ilich said the random inspection program was not focused on workers' safety.
Continue Article

"That was focused on rates of pay, terms of pay, whether or not workers were being exploited in so far as what they were being paid and the hours that they were working."

But Thompson said those teams spotted hundreds of violations, and in doing so, put pressure on employers.

"Those enforcement mechanisms put the contractors on notice that they were apt to be inspected, and I think that when the Campbell government stopped, that, I think, was a signal to farm labour contractors that they could go ahead as they wished."

"The van carrying 17 farm workers flipped onto the median in the Fraser Valley on Wednesday, killing three women."

It was also reported that the very same van had just passed the regular required mechanical inspection procedure done by a certified inspection shop and apparently passed even though it did not meet some of the basic safety requirements.

It apparently had wooden benches that were not properly fastened to the floor (which was badly rusted) and it apparently did not have seat belts for all the occupants, etc.

Now, whose fault was that?

"Nowhere in the article does it say that Carol James was partisan, yelling and scathing."

Of course it doesn't say that in the report itself, why would it?

If you need prove that politicians (including Ms. James) regularly yell, shout and make scathing statements tune in to the Legislature Question Period on your television when the B.C. Legislature is in session.

While i realise that it is traditional that 'opposition' parties oppose the govt. it isnt productive when it is done in a knee jerk way. I know it is silly in Canada to expect our politicians to behave in a sensible fashion but honestly, no organisation works where half the people (or a significant portion) actively try to subvert the ones in charge, just so they can distinguish themselves. The NDP lost. They should act as critics, sure but they, and any opposition party for that matter would serve the public better if they tried to work with the govt for our benefit. Come election time they can run on the issues and if we want them we will elect them. Without the rigid party partisanship we would have a more stable govt. and candidate would have a better chance of being elected on their own merits, rather their party's.
Oh and yes, farming is, in fact one of the most dangerous jobs out there. Dont look for WCB docs on it since individuals are not covered. Try amputee organisations.

Well said, Caranmacil! Call me new fashioned (rather than old fashioned) but silly old me actually expects our politicians to behave in a sensible fashion!

I know it's silly, but....I am tired of the old style hack and whack assault style way of doing politics!

It's so...low life, stupid and boringly predictable.

Well diplomat, you should like Carol James, the leader who brought civility to BC politics. Many say she is too nice. If you want to read more about the forestry safety report, you can check out this article here,

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=a49722e0-13db-42c4-9823-c7f18895371d&p=2

"Well diplomat, you should like Carol James, the leader who brought civility to BC politics. Many say she is too nice."

Obviously you never watch BC Legislature Question Period on television, because if you did you wouldn't repeat what you posted above.