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Chineese Philosophy In Lumber, Why Buy the Milk When You Can Own The Cow

By Ben Meisner

Thursday, February 07, 2008 03:50 AM

        

 Prince George - It was best put by an insider in the forest industry this week when told that the Chinese had bought the assets of some of Pope & Talbot’s operations.

 “I’m not opposed to trying to develop new markets but I am opposed to government / elected officials creating false hope or using unfortunate times to their own advantage. Of course the Chinese business person sees the writing on the wall too - why buy the milk when you can own the cow - so in they come and buy the Pope pulp mills,”

Sinar Mas of Shanghai has just purchased Mackenzie Pulp, Harmac pulp in Nanaimo and a pulp Mill in Oregon for $225 million. They also bought a mill owned by Pope and Talbot in Ft St James, no price mentioned for that purchase.

It also lays out a pattern of what the Chinese intend to do as they extend their influence into the forest industry in Canada.

Again from our insider in the industry, these comments:

Also in our ongoing talks about China and all the wood we should sell them here is some more data. The final numbers aren’t added up yet but  preliminary shows about $95 million dollars of Canadian wood products were
sold to
China in 2007 that’s up a whopping $25 million over 2006 okay so not too bad right. But compare that to the good old US of A  -  we sold $3.6 billion of wood to the US in the same period. I think we need those boys down south.

Mayor Kinsley has made 8 trips to China with intent of expanding trade. The results speak for themselves. What does $95 million dollars in lumber sales mean?  Well it is about three quarters of the production of one average mill in Prince George.  If we are making inroads they are very slim pickings indeed.

Now to add to the dilemma in the forest industry you need to look at the housing starts in Canada, they will drop from 228,343 in 2007 to 211,700 in 2008 and to 204,700 in 2009.

Those numbers may not be significant in the lumber industry, they represent only about 10% of production, but if you add in the Pine Beetle ,the US market and  the dollar, suddenly they become very important for companies in difficult times finding the sledding just more difficult.

Now whether the province recognizes that we are heading into a slump and the areas to be most heavily affected will be communities such as Prince George is not known. That will be spelled out in the budget to be presented by Carole Taylor. Taylor in her third quarter report made no bones about the fact that we in this province need to set some money aside for the leans times ahead. Whether she is now increasing that stance we will have to wait and see.

In Prince George, as we head into budget talks in the city, we continue to hear an air of optimism. The glass is half full not half empty they suggest. Spending is great in an election year.

The problem may on the other hand be that the economy will catch up with the locals before that election.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.


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Comments

I do not trust any Chinese outfit.
They are buying because these mills are cheap, and no other reason.
So what safe guards have been put in place by our government on the deal?
This company also came into Rupert and bought Skeena Pulp with a grand plan that amounted to nothing...again.
From the people I have talked to,they have quite reputation as a slash and burn company, not above tearing things down and selling them off.
And as far as Fort St. James is concerned,there was a local company competeing for the sawmill as well,but they could only do so much against overwhelming odds of the Asian giant.
A shame.
Like the mayor in Mackenzie,I will also wait and see what happens now,but it does make very nervous!
Great news,the chinese have stepped up to the plate,just like expo, local people had no balls, no balls. No one stepped up to the plate, no sinclairs,novaks,kordabyns, etc....maybe there smart, its a tough market, people are losing piles money,
No guts no glory, chinese show do well with Ft St James should do real well, as the Sinar will have the working capital.
Cdn banks won't give W.C. "Hello".
They would have gotten Ft St James for a song,it will supply chips. If there was a local company, they didn't make an offer, but just a lot of noise, as usual,(gordon campbell & rich coleman supporter,get a life)
Like we said before, simply put WFM
Must reduce production, raises prices from current $195, and not just to $220usd fob mill, pls we mean $275, but this won't happen till Mr Hank reduces some production, or others, continue to go out of business.
Meanwhile hopefully we get a few jobs back in Mackenzie,Ft St James,Harmac, tks to the chinese, not cause of the white man.
All the Chinese want is the operational details and the technology so they can take the resources back to China and use their supply of slave labour to replace our jobs.

Any company in China is PLA connected. I wonder what these multinational lumber companies will donate to our politicians next election....
Loggerhead, your communist Chinese front company is able to be your saviour because they get their money from a corrupted banking system that prints money like paper with 15%GDP growth in China using slave labour to undervalue their currency and thus manipulate markets giving them the money to go against market fundimentals... be carefull what you wish for IMO.
Loggerhead, your communist Chinese front company is able to be your saviour because they get their money from a corrupted banking system that prints money like paper with 15%GDP growth in China using slave labour to undervalue their currency and thus manipulate markets giving them the money to go against market fundimentals... be carefull what you wish for IMO.
Loggerhead, your communist Chinese front company is able to be your saviour because they get their money from a corrupted banking system that prints money like paper with 15%GDP growth in China using slave labour to undervalue their currency and thus manipulate markets giving them the money to go against market fundimentals... be carefull what you wish for IMO.
The Mills will be taken apart and shipped to China if you don't agree to work for really low wages, so many empty containers have to be filled.
Dismantling of these mills is what really scares me!
Sell off two mills for scrap and run one?
As far as I can see,there are no guidelines from the government to prevent this as such, so we just have to hope for the best.
But when it comes to these asian companies,you better be on your toes,or they will kick your ass.
If they make a deal,it has to be very good for them or it doesn't happen.
This is what they do, and they are very good at it!
Having said that,I will be hoping for the best for the sake of those who need the jobs!
We have had more than enough doom and gloom!
All you doom and gloom anti-Chinese at all costs types should actually get a little bit of information. The Sinar Mas group is an Indonesian Company, not Chinese, although the founder is ethnic Chinese, as are his children who currently operate the company.

They have no need to buy the technology as they already operate several paper mills with the same level of technology and more.

Personally, I see no difference between an owner who is Indonesian based Chinese than one who is Chinese based Scots like the HSBC group. Although Hong Kong and Shanghai based, HSBC has never been implicated in using slave labour that I am aware of. If you have evidence of that, contact the RCMP otherwisae you may be guilty of a criminal offence tourself.

Never has so much rubbish been written by so many about so few. Jeez!!!
Amazing how the worship of money makes grown men and women completely irrational and stupid. First, the communist were the greatest evil threat the world had for an entire generation. Now that they have money - humanity's new God since Jesus hasn't shown up - they are the friend of the west. And since most people in this region look at the forests and see only money standing there they won't be offended when the new Chinese owners come in and start doing what they do to other countries: utterly destroy everything they see. Canadians have been doing that for years so what's the difference if the Chinese do it? Some of you only want white people laying waste to the land? Is there some racism here? Only white people should destroy nature and oppress the native people's?

I dont understand why when the the intitial bid came out for the pulp mills..there was a big slash..names(Sinar Mas) and $$ amounts. Yet Fort St. James obviously was part of the package right from the get go..as it was also revealed that there had been a bid but names were being withheld. Odd..!!
I dont understand why when the the intitial bid came out for the pulp mills..there was a big slash..names(Sinar Mas) and $$ amounts. Yet Fort St. James obviously was part of the package right from the get go..as it was also revealed that there had been a bid but names were being withheld. Odd..!!
Amonra, RE: HSBC ties to slave labour.

It could be argued that HSBC enabled the enslavement of the better part of Asia, if not getting their hands dirty directly.

The British Empire's historic role in the Asian opium trade is a good example of how the oligarchy functions. The British used Hong Kong as their base of operations, with Scottish trading companies such as Jardine Matheson both moving the product and setting up the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corp. (now HSBC) to handle the dirty money financial flows. As a British colony, the government of Hong Kong was run by the British monarchy, but the power was that of the British East India Company (Rothschild’s BOE) and the other private interests which controlled the British monarchy and the Empire,

Currently HSBC is deep into laundering money for BP, Shell and BAE in their weapons for oil deal with the Arab states like home of Osama Saudi Arabia. Huge deals that total in the tens of billions of dollars with hundreds of millions in corruption money funnelled via HSBC to key royal subjects in positions of power over undemocratic theocracies of the Middle East (who in turn fund our terrorist bogymen), including $2 billion to Prince Bandar. Enabling of regimes to this day that deny their people fundamental human rights, which in turn inspires the terrorism ideology to be exploited that enables the war industry to continue to use fear for the creation of profits via oil control and protection rackets.

The Al-Yamamah deal Google it to understand what I’m talking about.

This was the British oil for arms deal that provided off-balance-sheet covert funding for the decade-long Mujahideen covert war to drive the Soviet Army out of Afghanistan. Kind of an Iran-contra sort of thing but on a much more massive scale.

HSBC is at the heart of the operations that led to 9/11 as a financial conduit for the Al-Yamamah deal profits funnelled as commissions and such to projects and shady partners that in turn created OBL and his AQ network in Asia, as well as their neocon network counterparts in America. The oil partners (BP & Shell as well as partners Exxon ect) of the old British Empire wanted control of the pipeline routes from the Caspian region through South East Asia via Afghanistan, and the war faction (BAE Carlyle ect) wanted war profits. Interesting also for this region is that Rio Tinto is considered a key player in this Anglo-Dutch group of New World Order conspirators.
Kevin1006: "Some of you only want white people laying waste to the land? Is there some racism here? Only white people should destroy nature and oppress the native people's?"

A supremely racist rant, in my opinion!

I am a white person, I have never destroyed nature, never oppressed native people before or now, neither do I ever intend to do so!

Isn't it an offense in Canada to promote hatred against an identifiable group of people?

I think it is.
Kevin1006 could you submit a autobiography to opinion250? we are dying for a good laugh!
Thanks, northman! I read Kevin's post again and got a real belly laugh out of the part: "money - humanity's new God since Jesus hasn't shown up -" wow...money has been around since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden of Eden and even Jesus had to kick the money tables down the steps of the temple!

Money has always been the *God* of mankind, it is nothing new!

By the way, doesn't one need money to pay for an Internet connection and for all the other necessities of life? Even those who are cared for by others (who use money) wouldn't get any care and sustenance if they did not have a supply of the *new God.*

Cheers!
Diplomat -Last time i checked the church also is quite fond of money.