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Report From Parliament's Hill - February 14th, 2008

By Prince George - Peace River M.P. Jay Hill

Thursday, February 14, 2008 03:44 AM

   

Common Sense Prevails in Debate Over Afghanistan

Canada did not lose a single soldier due to a combat mission in Afghanistan last year.

Yet it would be understandable if you thought otherwise were you to listen only to the shameless political rhetoric of Jack Layton and others who reject Canada’s proud history built upon our soldiers’ willingness to fight, when necessary, to defend our freedoms.

The roadside bombs, suicide bombers and IEDs (improvised explosive devices) that have been killing Canadian troops AND soldiers from other nations will not stop.  Taliban insurgents don’t care whether our soldiers are engaged strictly in re-construction efforts or peacekeeping duties in Afghanistan.

You do not need to pick a fight with the Taliban … they are at war with EVERYONE who doesn’t share their narrow views, including innocent civilians.

Combat missions undertaken by Canadians have been successful as preventative action to weaken the Taliban’s ability to strike whomever, whenever they can.  Also, as the non-partisan Manley panel on the Afghan mission pointed out in response to the option of withdrawing Canadian troops yet continuing to train Afghan troops: “In reality, training and mentoring Afghan forces means sometimes conducting combat operations with them.”

On the two previous occasions when Canada tried to completely limit itself to “peacekeeping”, the results were horrific.  Remember Bosnia, when our soldiers ended up being disarmed, tied-up and humiliated because they were politically hand-cuffed and couldn’t fight back?  And Rwanda, when our troops, in the name of “peacekeeping”, were not allowed to intervene to prevent the unspeakable genocide that took place there?

Canada has a proud tradition of peacekeeping and we’ve had many successes in that regard but, as I have repeated many times before, THERE IS NOT YET ANY PEACE TO KEEP IN AFGHANISTAN!

And so, if Canada or any other nation wants to succeed in re-construction efforts and ever hopes to see a lasting peace for Afghan citizens, we can’t simply let the Taliban organize and amass weapons in one region while we build a hospital or school they eventually intend to blow up in another region.

But we do need help.  That’s why our Conservative Government introduced a motion echoing the recommendation of the Manley Panel to extend Canada’s commitment to the United Nations-mandated mission in Afghanistan until the end of 2011, on the condition that Canada can secure a partner to provide a battle group of approximately 1,000 troops, along with medium helicopter lift capacity and high performance Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.

This is not a Conservative mission or a Liberal mission.  This is a Canadian mission.  Parliament cannot micromanage the military.  We are politicians not military strategists.  And the divided federal Liberal caucus finally convinced Stéphane Dion of this important fact. 

The Liberals now say they will support Canada conducting a real military mission until 2011, so long as we get the help from our NATO partners that Prime Minister Stephen Harper has requested.  This belated response by the Liberals is a welcome one.  At least thus far, the best interests of Canada, the Afghan people and international security may have triumphed over partisan politics in Ottawa.

 
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Comments

Jay Hill IS only partly right when he states this is not a Conservative or a Liberal mission.
This mess belongs to both of them,and unfortunately for Harper and company,THEY are the ones that are pushing for the extention to 2011.
That Mr.Hill, will cost your party dearly!
"shameless political rhetoric of Jack Layton and others who reject Canada’s proud history built upon our soldiers’ willingness to fight, when necessary, to defend our freedoms."

Mr Hill is a bald faced liar.

Layton and those who support him do not reject Canada's proud history. Many of those who agree with Layton are, in fact, among those who took part in the fighting that brought about that proud history. Thank you, Jay Hill, for slandering those who served in Canada's proud military because they take part in that other great Canadian historical practice called freedom of speech.
Hill: "...shameless political rhetoric of Jack Layton and others who reject Canada’s proud history built upon our soldiers’ willingness to fight, when necessary, to defend our freedoms."

How stupid and insulting can it get?

This is one of the most shameless ignorant rants I have read in a long time! I don't agree with Mr. Layton's opinion all the time but to accuse him (and others, including myself who disagrees with the combat mission) of being disrespectful of the military and its history smacks of George W. Bush's shameless condemnation of all those who disagree with his narrow crude view of the world as unpatriotic and *against the country.*

I think that Mr. Hill and his party have been influenced too much by the *eternally at war with the rest of the world* rhetoric coming from south of the border.

How about a thoughtful real Canadian perspective on this Afghan matter?





"eternally at war with the rest of the world" is a very good way to put it.
And that's exactly how the U.S.is viewed,
and rightly so.
For them,there ALWAYS has to be a conflict somewhere,and the U.S.military record of conflicts proves it.
Even at the risk of breaking the american economy?
(they have however,made certian companies and people very rich!)
So what do we here in Canada have now?
Buy into the same policy and rhetoric as our neighbours to the south?
Did Harper learn that from Mr.Bush and his cohorts?
Because he HAS gotten very good at it, and that is a scary thing.
True colours perhaps?
And for someone like Jay Hill to sit there and tell us all what a great thing we are doing for Afganistan and the world is a joke!
Unless he is planning on picking up a rifle and joining these young men and women in the conflict,he really should be careful with his rants, because he IS right about one fact...he IS a politician!
His government under Steven Harper has forgotten a very important part of this whole disgusting proccess...they forgot to hand the Canadian people a ballot and ask their opinion.
They just assume canadians all agree with them and that's not why they were elected.
But rest assured,the next election when it comes will take care of that little oversight!
About time Mr Hill!

Nice to see someone call it like it is. Calling Jack Layton on his spineless stance is long overdue. I have a family member stationed in Khandahar and she tells me often they are doing a WORLD of good over there. She also tells me to take what I see in the media with a VERY LARGE grain of salt, as they are more interested in stories, not facts. In fact all military personnel must go through a briefing on how to deal with the media there, in that one innocent slip of the tongue or statement taken out of context will be spun into a headline back home. They have little use for MSM media over there and even less for the spineless surrender-monkey politicians that put their lives in danger every time they flap their gums about how our soldiers should not be fighting over there.

The above comments make me sad, but don't surprise me. I'm just glad these people and their ilk were not great in number in 1940!

Wring your hands and gnash your teeth lefties, your time is over and people are waking up!
Oh, and Diplomat - being that I am native, am I a "real enough Canadian" for you?
Oh, and Diplomat - being that I am native, am I a "real enough Canadian" for you?
Well put progessive indian. Amonra, nice try. You could put the number of veterans who support Laytons spinless stance on the head of a pin.
"Hill is a bald faced liar"??
What a drama queen.
"Oh, and Diplomat - being that I am native, am I a "real enough Canadian" for you?"

Why pick on me, of all people? I am just one of those who according to Mr. Hill's comment are shameless enough to "reject Canada’s proud history built upon our soldiers’ willingness to fight, when necessary, to defend our freedoms."

Of course, I am not doing anything like that at all. I happen to be one of those who don't go around lumping people together under some objectionable label.

Again, why pick on me just because I object to a highly inflammatory statement made by our local Member of Parliament?

It's my democratic right to do so. What has that got to do with anybody being a native Canadian or not?

Diplomat wrote- "How about a thoughtful real Canadian perspective on this Afghan matter?"

- I dont think we need to be contributing in any way to the problems over there. We have to remember that these are religous battles that have been fought for countles centuries and this is not likely to change.
Northman, they resented any kind of foreign interference in their affairs in the colonial times, during the Soviet era and it is still the same today.

They are fiercely tribal and resist foreign occupation for many reasons, including religious ones. Their age old customs also compel them to avenge the killing of Afghan men, women and children by foreigners.

If one is killed, for whatever reason, several others will rise to take his place.

By *real Canadian perspective* I mean one that is based on home grown Canadian values and needs, not a perspective that is arrived at under international pressure, mostly from the American government.
Jay Hill says, "You do not need to pick a fight with the Taliban … they are at war with EVERYONE who doesn’t share their narrow views, including innocent civilians."
This is exactly the way the Conservative gov't operates. If you don't agree with them, they will attack you. Remember Linda Keen, formerly in charge of enforcing nuclear regulations in Canada until she was fired for doing her job.
"Not our fight"
"Let them figure it out"

etc.

IIRC that was the prevailing attitude of some people over here once Hitler started his march across Europe. P.E. Trudeau was one of them if memory serves..

What makes me wonder is how left wing people, who are SO CONCERNED about the plight of women, minorities et all, can be perfectly happy to sit back and watch a regime of fanatical lunatics brutalize and terrorize its own population, put bullets into the heads of women who had the audacity to show a lock of hair or an ankle in public, forbid females from attending school etc.

If it wasn't so pathetic it would be laughable..
You may be native to Canada, ProgressiveIndian, but I suspect you are not native to Afghanistan. Afghani affairs should be decided by Afghanis, not Canadians, Americans, British, Russians, French, Germans, nor Canadian Indians.

This is an Afghani civil war and any group who get in the way will pay for it, then have to leave eventually. That has been the history for centuries. Why do you think that now is any different. It is a no-win situation for anybody except Afghanis.

Let me remind you that the Soviet State was eventually broken by their war against the Taliban-US coalition of that period. Just because the US changes sides, doesn't make a war just. The fact is that if Afghanis support the Taliban, then they will eventually have an Afghani government. That has been their history time and time again.

Let me also remind you that recently a female member of the Afghani parliament was in Canada describing the atrocious treatment she was receiving from the male dominated pro-western Afghani faction who are now in power and being shored up by our young mens' lives. She made it clear the difference between that faction and the Taliban was minimal.

Incidentally, attacking me for having an opinion that you don't like merely accentuates the bankrupt nature of your position.
The fact is that if Afghanis support the Taliban, then they will eventually have an Taliban government.

Sorry for the error
ProgressiveIndian, if you believe the treatment of Afghani civilians by Afghanis is justification for Canada to be at war with an Afghani political group, why is Canada not at war with Iran?

One Canadian woman journalist was treated in that manner by the Irani government a little while ago, including repeated rape, by all accounts. Why does Harper not insist we invade Iran? Doesn't he give a damn about Iranian atrocities against Iranian and Canadian women? Why the double standard?

What about a war with Saudi Arabia, don't they treat their women with gross and violent contempt? Don't they whip women who have the audacity to be raped by total strangers? Why does Harper not pressure Canada to declare war against them if the protection of their women and children from the disgusting atrocities committed by their own government should be the driver for war?

News item on the CBC this morning: *The government of Afghanistan is totally corrupt and it is not even providing the most basic services to the people.*

The brother of the president apparently is one of the major drug lords. Billions are being made by the growing of poppies.

Ammonra, you are making good points. Why is Bush seen dancing brandishing a sword in Saudi Arabia with the billionaire royal family? The country has NO democracy, treats women like third class beings and has public beheadings?

By the way, ProgressiveIndian, your comparison of the European wars (Hitler, of course and never Stalin) to the Afghan situation is lacking merit in several respects which become apparent only to those who instead of simply repeating worn-out slogans are actually familiar with the history.

War with Iran? Don't hold your breath. Anything is possible and again it wouldn't be about treatment of women but mostly about oil and imposing outside political and economic domination.

Hopefully Canada will not be dragged into another quagmire.

Afghanistan is a lot closer to Europe than it is to Canada (or the US of A). NATO's participation as a security force is hugely unpopular in every European country that is participating.

The problem is seen as an unfinished project, left unfinished by those who decided to do the initial invasion.


Unfortunately,one of the first and foremost things that is NEVER talked about,especially by our illustrious politicians,it the little fact that if Canada pulled out of Afganistan tomorrow,or in 2011,that country would go right back to the way it has always been within a week.
No question about that,and those that we call our "leaders" are well aware of it.
Nothing would change and "democracy" would still not exist.
And that is because it never did exist, and it never will.
What we are doing now is imposing OUR will on a country that hates what we represent and will never change their religious beliefs OR their politcs.
Which,by the way,are one and the same.
So what do we get?
That's right,dead and wounded young soldiers, and a lot of hard feelings, and nothing actually accomplished.
We should have learned that over the years,as history has shown,but we have not.
Is that because it isn't really about peace and democracy?...or perhaps it is
REALLY about money,politics. and power?
And comparing what took place in 1940 to what is happening in the middle east now,is an insult to those that stood up and fought in what can only be called a WORLD war.
This is not a world war,it is an OIL war and nothing more.
Gee - we weren't natives to Europe either, so I guess we should have just kept our noses out of that as well and let them sort it out eh? Let's just let the Taliban take back over so they can continue shooting women in soccer stadiums, forbidding school for girls and get back to planning the next attack on us infidels.

Like I said, I talk on a weekly basis to a family member who has boots on the ground right in the thick of things, and despite what you would like us to believe, the locals appreciate NATO forces being over there BIG TIME, and are enjoying some measure of freedom and dignity that they never had with the Taliban butchers.

I'm just glad you spineless wonders weren't around in 1940, you are all an embarrassment to those that put themselves into harms way for the rest of us.
What seems to be lost in this debate is that Afganistan was the breeding and staging ground of 9/11. We didn't wake up one day and take them on over their treatment of women, or some colonial desire to "occupy" their desert. Even though most of the 9/11 terrorists where of Saudi nationality, the afgan Taliban gave them a safe haven for their twisted mission. You can shove your head up your butt like ammonra and diplomat and compare this to the Soviet/Afgan invasion of the early 80's or deal with it like a mature society. If they would have kept their backassed views of the world to themselves instead of harbouring fanatical idiots that fly planes into buildings, there would not be a debate or war. Ignoring this on going threat like Taliban Jack Layton purports would guarantee more innocent deaths in the future. The world is a nasty place and Canada is doing its part to change it. Many will die for this effort, but sitting back with a smug, "we are peace keepers" view of the world, dosen't cut it anymore. Wake up.
dow7500 and ProgressiveIndia, are you of the right age and able bodied to sign up and blow them all away?

"I'm just glad you spineless wonders weren't around in 1940, you are all an embarrassment to those that put themselves into harms way for the rest of us."

I was in harm's way then, a lot more than you will ever be in your life.

You don't know who you are trying to insult, so why don't you smarten up?
Diplomat, are you of the right age to be sitting on a train and getting blown up by some sick fanatic?
Sure, just like you! And, of course, you didn't answer my question. However (and this is the part you seem to ignore) the longer we occupy their country the more they will try to blow us up - if that is what they want to do and I have not had any indication that they want to do that, and of course they haven't.

Check their history - every invading power has been defeated by them, colonial Britain, the mighty Soviet Union, you name it.

What would you do if some outside power would invade Canada, kill our women and children while trying to force a system of government on us that we do not want?

And at the same time get access to our natural resources by installing a puppet government?

You would see it as your holy duty to resist with everything at your disposal, I bet.

And so would I.

Here is another example:

As long as the Americans fought the Viet Cong (the Commies) there was bloodshed from one end of the country to the other. The Americans got booted out, they had to let them to find their own type of government. Peace arrived and now the Americans are trading with them, putting burger joints on every street corner and see them as *good guys.*

I know you prefer warfare. I don't.

Over and out.

Thanks for the history lesson Diplomat, but history dosen't always repeat. In the Vietnam war, they didn't attack New York first. This is and will be a diiferent battle. Do you stand up, or squat as a country?. I don't prefer warfare, but I won't squat.
It was a pleasure, no thanks required but appreciated anyways!
Some people need to balance their media instead of being spoon fed the corporate mainstream. There is a lot of fringe media available on the web, some just as slanted as what you see on TV, others containing facts and truths that big money and government don't want you to see. If all you watch or read is mainstream, YOU ARE BEING BRAINWASHED!
peace out
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, March 13, 2002

???
I believe we are at war. The terrorists against the democratic free world. They want to take us out. Completely eliminate all of us. The size of the terrorists exceed the population of the United States. Remember London, Spain, Phillipines, Oklahoma, and on and on. They are positioned all over the world. They are probably already in your community and you don't know it. They are willing to die for their cause. Death is their reward.

Compare that to what we will put on the line for a cause. Their purpose in life is to remove us from the planet. If we don't keep them in check where they live, we will be dealing with more and more of them where we live. You decide how we should handle it. There is so much more going on than the media tells us. Don't be fooled. Don't be naive. Chester