Lets put blockades up to prevents the natives from leaving there reserves. They will get hungry and will see that what they are doing to the economics of the province can affect them aswell

yup here we go again... what a bunch of crap!!!

I just got to ask....what is so traditional about what they do? Hmm they drive cars, trucks, use hydro, buy groceries collect welfare, use aluminum boats, wear Reeboks, use rifles, use our Medicare, use fishing rods, cells, schools, planes, and so many other Non Traditional methods.

Yet they pound a drum made of plastic and wear blue jeans as they halt the working people that provide them with these non traditional things!

Please someone explain to me what the hell is their tradition? And don’t give me the NDP version!
I want to understand their culture..cheers

Hmm same old thing ...i asked a simple question ...please explain to us the general public " What is traditional about todays natives? heck i want it all also....its just a question that iwe need to understand...

this report presents a pretty one sided look at the issue... no comment from Canfor or the Ministry of Forests and Range? no request for interviews?

Come on opinion250, not exactly the high standard of reporting we've come to expect

Hey Chief Sam, What a good idea. I wonder if we tried that with the property assessement people if that would work. We PAID for our property long ago but they still want more money. Now we have to prove why we think that their horrendous increase in taxes is way out of the ballpark. Have you run into that? Take my word for it, don't get too comfortable with the civilized way of doing things.

Why whine about the taxes you have to pay on your property...it's the white mans [queen of england colonial government I mean] way. To make you think that you own it, at least until they want to expropriate it or you cannot afford to pay the property taxes.

There are two sides to every situation. I am not privy to either one. Except to the extent that we have hired (elected) people to work these things out for us.

Let's support both parties and encourage our elected representatives to work things out in a peaceful and timely fashion. Being critical doesn't change the fact that an agreement needs to be worked out between these two parties, who both have rights by the way. Reconciliation only works when you have two willing parties. Let's allow due process some attempt to provide an amiable solution? Chester

these people need to realize that wether they like it or not, it will eventually be done!

Iv'e heard many times from so called first nations people that they do not own the land but use it and move on. How come they say the own all the land now? How much did they pay for all the land? Where is the reciept?

A bit long but worth the read!


Wish there were more like him!!! "Chief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos."




FORT McMURRAY, Alberta

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in late.

"I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. "
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

"My first rule for success is Show up on time."
"My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1."

"If your life sucks, it's because you suck."

"Quit your sniffling."

"Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job."

"Get off of welfare. Get off your butt."

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.

"People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez, I'm working with Indians what do you think?"

Now they are openly laughing ... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

"Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you."

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country.... even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort Curdy because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia 's South Okanagan . He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any first nation in Canada .

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos pasted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is a milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq . Dump 'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom .
The message he has brought here to the Chipewayan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: "Get involved, create jobs - and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies."

"The biggest employer," he says, "shouldn't be the band office."

He also says the time has come to get over it. "No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments." "No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect our rights."

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as an investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive-through, and then right back at it.

"You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development", he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk, given the audience, but on this day and in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, "Get over it." "Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again." "Get some counseling."

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

"The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people."

"Blaming government? That time is over."

Getajob, it seems to me as a fellow whitey like you, that the tradition that many natives seem to have these days is battling rednecks like you. Old traditions make way for new ones.

Northman, I was brought up as supposed white trash, so don't give me that simplistic crap of "just do it" that Clarence Louie preaches about. Honestly, if life were that simple, I could have merely had a shower, wore a suit and tie, worked real hard, and been an investment banker in two weeks.

Acidrider, the receipt is probably the same place the interned Japanese, the Chinese who paid head tax, and Maher Arar, have it. Did you ask them for their receipts?

I Agree with Chester. As much as Ben thinks he knows it all, he doesn't have all the facts here. Only the folks on the roadblock and the logging contractor know the truth. I imagine there are enough intelligent people between the two of them to work something out.

Howrd_b_stern.. pull your head out of your ass and quit trying to govern other peoples posts. My post was based on an email i received a while back. If you think i sat there and typed all that out and beleive 100% in it your insane!

White ... black ...or anywhere in between... get your mitt and get in the game ... there is not THAT much time left.... for ANY of us !!!


Blessings.

Howrd_B_Stern (Are you not able to debate without sterotyping the Opposition?)
Because, like you, i have a view that i am very Passionate about!

lol to funny..anyhoo dont forget its us rednecks that provide you with the things that you have....hmm Pg was built off our backs as well as North America...Anyway until it can be explained and proved to me that first nations or whatever other title you wanna use can provide proof that they were her first then sorry ......in my eyes we are all equal here in North america.
God Bless the Rednecks...

Getajob you are not my opposition. I am a whitey like you, but unlike you, I don't believe in the white is right attitude that you pervade. First Nations don't need to prove anything to me nor should they have to prove what is and what isn't traditional to you. As far as rednecks building this province and continent, well look around you and you will see that a lot of mamby pamby liberals who play golf on weekends like me, were working alongside you and putting up with your myopic BS day after day.

Northman, why post it then? "Wish there were more like him" Interesting comment. Pretty cool though, because a lot of my native buddies tell me "I'm one of the good ones (White folks)" or "a credit to my people". I laugh because I know they are joking with me and secondly, they have heard that from other well-meaning white folks, who feel that they have to give their stamp of approval to other races.

Once again, I call BS on you.

hmmm i am nothing like you thank god...
oh i am not a whitey either i am of German background....cheers

..Provide the proof that supports that they are the first people then maybe i will ponder the idea.
I dont support anything unless i have 100% proof...Any way lets agree to disagree..
Cheers,

Howard B Stern- "Wish there were more like him" Was also not commented by me. It was the title for the post i copyed.
-Call B.S on me all you want and i will keep putting in your face where you can get a good wiff of it..
And quit refering to us as "Whitey"!

Aside from that so far qwaszxter is putting some good posts up regarding this topic.

Getajob, you are a whitey like me. Just admit it. And yes, you are quite different than me, now if only I could get you to admit what a racist bigot you are, then that would confirm to me that you indeed are different. By the way, Qwaszter has proven your first question, and now you have the audacity to ask a second one. My goodness, you have a long list of qualifications don't you? I can almost guess your next question: Now, prove to me that they indeed are the owners of this land.

Northman why not, us white folks are all the same right? Disco dancing, bowling types, taxpaying types just like all natives are whining lazy welfare bums, except for Clarence Louie right? Am I right my white brother?

Howrd_B_Stern

Because someone does not agree with you, it does not make them a racist bigot!

I know your kind and you are the mere few...You sir do not support open thinking therefore i must ask, are you Communist?

Cheers.....

C'mon, let's all play nice. Seriously now, why can't we all (white, red, black etc.) treat each other as equals? Sure, there are the dumb, the scum and the numb in every race, but in general, I think this world would be a better place if we could somehow all agree on most things.
One country, one people, one law!
Strictly an opinion.
metalman.

Getajob,

I actually do support open thinking. Here's my open thought, it is not right for us whities (and that includes you) to determine the future of the First Nations of this country. History has shown us that we tried this once before, ala assimilation policies residential schools and the like, and failed horribly. Out of the result of our failure, we left a crapstorm that the First Nations have to deal with. Now I wasn't around then, but I do believe I have learned from the mistakes of others and do not want to repeat them.

It's one thing to question what a persons traditions are. It's quite another to attempt to destroy those traditions, cultures, languages, communities, etc., and then have the gall to ask what the traditions are today.

metalman Yes you hit it on the head ......That is what i believe and it would sure make the planet a better place to live! one people one race..."The human race"

Howrd_B_Stern i am color blind.. I sure pray that you are not a school teacher or worse a lawyer.

I respect your opinions Howard_B_Stern and those of everyone on here,and I also agree with SOME of what you are saying.
But I do not agree with anything that affects the economic well being of this entire province to satisfy the desires of any one particular group.
We ALL need jobs and security.
And we all need to do better.
But,nobody rides for free,even if that group considers itself the rightful owners of the land and all it contains.
So how do we fix that?
Because god knows,we can't keep doing what we are doing.
Constant confrontation will never solve a thing, and the past is just that...the past...and it is not coming back.
So how come we are not getting anywhere?
Which side is wrong,or is it BOTH sides?
Who is going to blink first?

I agree with you Getajob. Its kind of crazy when we let our differences get in the way, and that goes double for me. I get stupid at times to, and for that I apologize.

Andyfreeze, yes, in a time when jobs and resources are hard to find, we need to find solutions.

You know what folks ..we all have opinions.
We all are showing passion on here and that is the road to a solution...."Diversity of ideas paves the path for fairness"

Once all parties begin dialogue, we all will live in peace as it was meant to be.

Debates like ours are healthy for reaching a resolve...
I opt for peace, regadless of race,gender and financial status.
Next time i am in PG Tims will be on me...cheers

If you spend some time reading up on the land claims issue here in B.C.,you start to realize that the reasons they are not being settled at a faster rate is not all the fault of the government.
Again,confrontation does not solve anything.
Negotiation however,does solve problems,but if one side or the other will not negotiate or bend,then we are beat before we even start!