Rural BC Screwed by Fuel Tax

Wednesday, February 20, 2008 03:45 AM

It may be fair and well for the people in the lower mainland to have a new look at how they get to and from work in those cities. There is a strong case to be made that they don’t need big SUV’s to get to the office every day.

Just as compelling an argument however is the reason why we in the central and northern part of the province will fall on the sword for those privileged folks who live in the sunny south. We live and work in an area where a 4x4 in many cases is not a luxury but an absolute must in order to get to work or to use at work.

There is a reason why there are so many 4x4’s in this part of the province. It can snow overnight to a point where it is impossible to get to work without the benefit of a vehicle that can take those conditions.

The 2.4 cents a litre increase on gas and 2.8 on diesel shows a lack of understanding of what it takes to live in the north.

It also shows a lack of understanding of what it takes to work and live in this region.

Diesel fuel is an integral part of living here. You can’t plug your pick up into a spruce tree when you're in the bush and if you hope to get home you may find it necessary to leave it running.

The no idle zone is nonsense here .

Those machines running up and down the street every night are trying to clean the streets enough to allow you to get to work to be able to send that huge imbalance in tax payments to the sunny south so those folks can be able to say that they would never live in the frozen bloody north. They are only too happy to accept the fact that we are the bread basket of this province.

The Liberals showed a complete lack of understanding of what it is like to live and work in the central and northern part of this province. And now to ad insult to injury, they are about to tax us just one more time.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.

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Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 03:45 AM in Views by Ben Meisner

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Comments

Posted by: RUEZ on February 20 2008 5:07 AM

Exactly.

Posted by: acrider54 on February 20 2008 6:10 AM

There is only one BC and that is the lower mainland. We in the north just give them money for the projects down there.

Posted by: owl on February 20 2008 6:34 AM

"It can snow overnight to a point where it is impossible to get to work without the benefit of a vehicle that can take those conditions. "

????? the only reason we can't make it is because the city does not outfit it's plow drivers with VW so they can get to the plows ...

;-)

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 20 2008 8:49 AM

I think this tax is a great idea. If Bubba in his big ass F250 is going to idle for 10 minutes in the Tim Horton's drive through then he should damn well pay for the damage he's causing to the environment. Same with those yahoos on their sleds and ATV's

Nobody needs to leave an diesel pick up idling all day while working in the bush. It's ludicrous to even suggest so.

Posted by: Jim13135 on February 20 2008 9:09 AM

You won't think it's such a great idea when the tax flows through to the price of everything you purchase here. Trains and trucks use fuel...and the extra costs they get saddled with will be passed down to the consumer...who is also getting hit with the new 'carbon' tax..nothing like a double whammy!!

Posted by: Jimmi on February 20 2008 9:12 AM

time to separate from BC and join the Yukon.....

Posted by: Harbinger on February 20 2008 9:20 AM

Skytrain to Beaverley. Why won't anyone listen? Drat!!

Posted by: Bridge on February 20 2008 10:00 AM

Ever herd of tire chains. I dont agree that we need all those 4X4 to get to work in Prince George. What we need is better drivers. I have never owned a 4X4 and have driven in every corner of our province .

I made one trip up in the Stewart country where I was pushing snow with the front bumper of my 2X4 truck. I wore out a set of chains in a three week period. But I put them on before I got stuck.

When Harold Moffet was Mayor and people started to complain about snow removal he used to say, "it will all go away in the spring". No one needs a 4X4 in our city to drive to work. Its about being to lazy to help oneself. The cup. is half full

Cheers

Posted by: Sean on February 20 2008 10:49 AM

Everything balances itself out in the long run. No one forces people to live in PG. Compared to the average cost of a home in the lower mainland, you folks up north have it pretty good. Consider the overall picture of life!

I've lived in some of the most harsh weather areas of this country without a 4 X 4 and a diesel fueled vehicle and had no problems at all.

Posted by: Death to Socialism on February 20 2008 11:39 AM

It's just one more cost of living in a frozen hell-hole. It gets cold & snows here. Deal with it.

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 20 2008 12:06 PM

Jim13135 wrote:
"You won't think it's such a great idea when the tax flows through to the price of everything you purchase here. Trains and trucks use fuel...and the extra costs they get saddled with will be passed down to the consumer...who is also getting hit with the new 'carbon' tax..nothing like a double whammy!!"

------

I don't mind in the least if I have to pay a bit more for goods and services if it means that, in return, I can breathe and my children can breathe. People don't need to idle their vehicles while they're in the mall, people don't need to use the drive-thru at Tim Hortons, people don't need to tear around on sleds and ATV's. People need to start paying attention to the adverse affects their actions are having on the environment and they need to do something about it. Since the average person is too lazy to give a rat's ass about the environment it's up to the government to do something.

Posted by: RRrabbitt on February 20 2008 2:15 PM

Hey Mr. Zoop.... what about those of us who have already shouldered our responsibility for our share out of our own pocket to help the environment ???

Now we get to pay the additional penalty because it is shoved down our throats... we will be sending our $100 back to the government... "do not cash" written across the back and front !!!

What a bunch of greedy ninnys in Victoria... change our way of thinking ??? Gimme a break... what a load of twaddle !!!

Stuff it to the North again !! I for one am getting tired of holding onto my ankles....

Grimdays....

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 20 2008 2:34 PM

RRrabbitt wrote (in part)
"Hey Mr. Zoop.... what about those of us who have already shouldered our responsibility for our share out of our own pocket to help the environment ???"

It's pretty arrogant to claim you've shouldered your "share" of the responsibility. Can you breathe the air in this city? Have the polar ice caps stopped melting? How's that hole in the ozone layer doing?

This is still your planet and until we've stopped bowing down to and worshipping our automobiles it's still your responsibility.

Grim days are those days when people figure they don't have to do any more since they've already paid for their share. Twaddle indeed.

Posted by: RRrabbitt on February 20 2008 2:45 PM

Nope... we don't live in PG anymore, we breathe just fine now.

The ice caps are NOT melting... they are in transition.

The hole in the ozone layer is actually shrinking.

We no longer drive an automobile... we worship Mother Earth instead.

Blessings !!

Posted by: dow7500 on February 20 2008 2:52 PM

Zoop, If you think this budget boondoogle will make a difference in the polar ice caps, your delusinal. Campbell and co have bought this carbon crisies hook line and sinker. We will be economic martyres sacrificed in the name of the environment.
The irony is, if BC ceased to exist today, GHG would still climb. I would have expected this hogwash from the NDP, now who can you vote for?

Posted by: Andyfreeze on February 20 2008 4:32 PM

Campbell and co. brought in this carbon tax to help pay their debts, which are rising every day.
No other reason.
Which by the way,are also now our debts too,whether we like it or not.
To believe otherwise is just plain kidding yourself, but then,that's what they want you to believe.
They don't give a tinkers damn about the enviroment,they only care about money and power.
This government is based on lies and spin and don't doubt that for a second.
And they certianly don't give a damn about anyone here in the north, but I guess some people just need to learn that the hard way!

Posted by: Reevus on February 20 2008 5:10 PM

THIS WHOLE THING IS VERY SIMPLE: MAKING PEOPLE PAY MORE TO RUN THERE VEHICLES AND SO FORTH DOES NOT HELP FIX THE ENVIROMENT! IT SIMPLY GIVES MORE MONEY TO THE GOVERNMENT TO SPEND. AND ON WHAT YOU ASK. EVERY WATCH A CITY CREW OR PROVINCIALY CONTRACTED COMPANY WORK? ITS A CLICHE BUT ITS TRUE.....3 GUYS WATCH 1 GUY WORKS! FUTHERMORE IT SEEMS RATHER CONVIENENT THAT THE OLYMPIC COST ARE SPIRALLING OUT OF CONTROL AND HER COMES ANOTHER TAX. SO HERE IT IS MONEY WILL NOT CLOSE THE HOLE IN OZONE NOR WILL IT RE-FREEZE THE THE GLACIERS OR POLAR CAPS.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 20 2008 5:21 PM

Spend yer hunnert bucks on 649 lottery tickets. 14 million to one chance that you can move out of BC. Gee, I hope I don't sound like one of them Liberal ninnies who post on here to praise the gov't.

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 20 2008 8:28 PM

Any tax that will force people out of their automobiles will be good for the environment. (Although judging by some of the above responses the government should have spent some more money on the education system).

Posted by: Harbinger on February 20 2008 9:02 PM

How about re-education camps like they have in China? Maybe after the next election.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 20 2008 9:03 PM

Bottom line....Tax me out of my car. It don't get much simpler.

Posted by: NMG on February 20 2008 10:10 PM

"We live and work in an area where a 4x4 in many cases is not a luxury but an absolute must in order to get to work or to use at work. There is a reason why there are so many 4x4�s in this part of the province. It can snow overnight to a point where it is impossible to get to work without the benefit of a vehicle that can take those conditions"

C'mon Ben. There are so many 4x4's up here because people get snowed into thinking they need them, not because they actually do. It's probably similar to how most of the new trucks sold are 1 tons as opposed to half tons. The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people living in Prince George would get the same mobility from a car with suitable winter tires, as they would with a 4x4. They'd also spend allot less money on gas and carbon taxes :)

Posted by: metalman on February 21 2008 9:08 AM

This zoopdinky character must not use any man made products. Get your head on straight, zoop, how is paying more for fuel going to stop the polar ice cap melt?
I suppose you don't use a car, or ride the bus. I surmise that you do not contribute to the economy anyway. You do not seem to have any consideration for those who do not live in apartments or drive microcars. How about considering why you are able to live comfortably, eat well, and stay warm? If you don't already realize it, there are a lot of people behind you, wrecking the environment while they make sure you have food, clothing and fuel to purchase at your whim. Sounds like you are part of the problem. Ben, I tend to agree with what you say, but most of us got around ok in the distant past in the winter without 4x4's and so did you. But thanks for sticking up for us. Gotta go, must make sure my share of the burden gets sent to Victoria.
metalman.

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 21 2008 10:59 AM

Not sure how metalman arrive at any of those conclusions? (Proving perhaps that we don't spend enough on education).

Anyhow, for your edification I shall repeat myself. I'll try not to use words with more than one syllable but it may not be possible.

Paying more for fuel will (hopefully) discourage people from driving as much as they do. You don't need to use the drive-thru, you don't need to idle in the parking lot, you don't need a big ass F250 for a commuting vehicle. It's the lowering of our consumption of oil based products that will help the environment; not the tax itself.

Posted by: Andyfreeze on February 21 2008 11:08 AM

Actually zoopdingle,what you are saying is only in theory...and as we all know,theory's don't always apply in the real world.
And guess what else...all the things that you say we don't NEED to do, will continue to be done on a daily basis.
To expect otherwise is just kidding ourselves,because the real world doesn't work that way...and it never will.
And the governments all know that,but what a great excuse to tax the hell out of the peons eh?

Posted by: dow7500 on February 21 2008 11:44 AM

kind of an arrogant, sanctimonious ass this zoop person. I suspect his perceived supperiority likely stems from years in the ivory towers of academia where no it all blowhards think the sun shines out of their ass.(just a guess) This carbon tax will be useless, costly white elephant, with a negligible impact on carbon. It dosn't take a mental giant to see that. The North will pay more, period. I don't have choice how I heat my house. If this tax is meant to push energy users to use friendlier fuels, give me an alternative.

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 21 2008 11:55 AM

dow7500:
Nothing quite like an ad hominem arguement is there? There are lots of things you can do other than switching to friendlier fuels. (I don't mean you specifically, I mean you as us.) I'm not going to repeat myself but I've given a couple of examples of small things that can be done.

Andyfreeze: Yes some people will continue to do the harmful things they don't need to do, but, if one person can be convinced (forced?) to change their ways that can only be construed as a positive step.

Posted by: gitterdun on February 21 2008 11:58 AM

Tax? This is just a way to penalize people for their fuel consumption. If they really wanted people to become more green they would find a way of encouraging and supporting going green. Hey, even a blue box program in PG would go to reducing carbon more than penalizing people will. Remember to add 5% to this increase as GST is charged on it also.

I would be interested in hearing how Bond, Bell and Rustad think we should reduce our fuel consumption.

Quit going to Cougar games.......Ooops most have already done that.

For all those with oil heat, do you think the government should be forced to provide them with access to natural gas? Should they go to electric? That is the most cleanest type of power.......Ooops, thats going up too. Burn more wood....its cheap and there is lots of it.

How about the loggers, forestry workers, Ministry workers (Forests, Fish & wildlife, Environment, etc)? Quit sending them to the bush? Take away their pickups? Haul fuel in a car? I guess no one is worried about that because if these workers aren't out of work yet they probably will be soon.

The price of big trucks (semis) just jumped $10,000 in the last year JUST for new technology to reduce emissions. Now tell that trucker that he also has to pay more for his fuel after he just spent $10,000 going green.

Where many people in the Lower Mainland have the choice of biking, walking or public transit, many people in the North don't have this option and they are being penalized because of it. This increase will hit wallets from every angle just not at the fuel pumps.......and the people that it hurts the most are the ones that are least able to afford it. Never has the BC government been so blatent in their lack of understanding of the diversity in this province. Bond, Bell and Rustad should be ashamed of themselves.

Posted by: gitterdun on February 21 2008 12:35 PM

PS: zoopdingle

Maybe YOU should stick to one syllable words or, as you keep commenting on the education system, paid more attention when you were there. Your spelling needs help.

As far as an ad hominem argument, your perception that someone's lack of education in some way diminishes the merits of their opinion is considered to be ad hominem abusive. Belittling someone else does not add strength to your argument.

ad hominem abusive: Quote "This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. This tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's."

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 21 2008 1:18 PM

gitterdun. You may want to spell check before criticizing someone else's spelling.

Couple of points:

1) Ministry people don't buy their own fuel. nor do they venture that often into the woods.

2) Trucker's complaining about spending money going green should get themselves a better accountant. Same with forestry workers.

3) A lot of people in the urban centers in the north do have the option to bike, walk or take transit. These are the people that really need to change.

OK, so it's three points.

Posted by: dow7500 on February 21 2008 2:08 PM

"get a better accountant"??? Now your arguments have gotten absurd zoop. Stick to hackey sack and granola bars.

Posted by: caranmacil on February 21 2008 2:34 PM

It is pointless to argue that forest industry workers will not be hurt by a carbon tax. It is , well uninformed to suggest that people working in the bush, or who own a farm do not have a legitimate use for a 4x4. It is plain silly to suggest that most 3/4 and 1 ton trucks could be replaced with 1/2 tons (try that one when you are hauling a load and get stopped by the transportation cops). I dont think everyone can afford to buy a commuting vehicle as well as the 'big ass f250' they need for work and /or play (VW's are crappy at hauling sleds)
It is pointless to suggest that a carbon tax in BC will save the planet.
It is also silly to suggest that northerners cannot reduce their use of fuel. I don't agree with the childish characterizations such as 'bubba in his F250' but i do think that idling for long periods in a Tim hortons line isnt that good an idea. For the record, I do run a 3/4 ton pickup, I do go through Tim hortons drive throughs and my name is not Bubba (though if it were i would still wonder why someone would use it in such a disparaging way). I am a sinner, I know.
I dont think it is a bad idea to reduce our use of fossil fuels, for a number of reasons. Maybe a price increase will help motivate this. It seems we need a push. One has only to look at the fuel efficiency ratings of many of the vehicles (including some of the hybrids) to seee that performance is more important than fule economy. While it is trendy to pick on SUV's and trucks i would suggest most cars out there are overpowered as well. However, there is ample evidence to suggest that a 5 , 10 or even 15 cent a litre increase will NOT reduce our driving. One has only to think of the annual price increase every spring at the start of 'driving season'. If rising prices reduced driving then i dont think there would be such a thing as 'driving season' do you?

Posted by: Andyfreeze on February 21 2008 2:37 PM

Me thinks zoodingle is a Gordo elf trying to justify the B.C. Liberals latest tax scam!
Sorry zoodingle,but you sound much like a duck farting in shallow water!
Not much any of us can do now except try to remember this little bomb Campbell dropped on us when the next election comes around!
There ARE some GOOD people in the Liberal cabinet but unfortunately,Gordon Campbell and his inner circle are not among them!

Posted by: zoopdingle on February 22 2008 7:49 PM

Gee, a hackey sack playing, granola munching BC Liberal supporter? I always knew I was unique.

carinmacil: I was going to use the phrase, "slack-jawed yokels and their F250's" but the trailer trash that populate the north would have taken that as a compliment so I opted for Bubba. Deal with it; it's just an expression of my personal disdain for selfish people who believe it's their right to run the environment.

I'm not even going to wonder how Andyfreeze knows the sound of a duck farting underwater. Sounds like a union job...