BC Lumber Companies Spinning Words to Avoid Severance Union Boss Says

Wednesday, March 05, 2008 04:00 AM

Prince George, B.C.- Many of the forest industry employees who had hoped to get a severance package from their lumber company, are falling victim to a spin of words. That’s according to Frank Everitt, President of local 1-424 of the United Steelworkers.

Everitt says language like, "minimum two week shutdown," is now replacing "temporary shutdown" and it means workers, like those who are getting pink slips from Winton Global are not getting the kind of packages they should.

Because of the manner in which the language is written in the agreement, Everitt says an "indefinite closure" and an "indefinite idle" means these companies do not have to pay any severance to the employees who are losing their jobs.

"Remember for a lot of these employees, they have been working for the same company for as much as 30 to 40 years. They have had that same job earning the bread and butter for the owners only to be shifted aside." Although the employees may qualify for employment insurance, the maximum insurable earnings is $41,100.

As for severence, Everitt says northern workers are being hit harder says Everitt "We have a better collective agreement in the south of the province but up here we have to have a permanent shut down in order for the employee to receive 7 days for each year of service, up to a maximum of 210 days."

The Minister can, under section 54-1 of the Labour Act declare that the company has ceased operations, thereby triggering the severance.

Under the Employment standards Act, after 13 weeks of shut down you can collect a severance package to a maximum of 8 weeks.

Everitt says employees shouldn’t be denied "People who are facing this dilemma and have put their whole life out working for one company need to get on with their life and we think they are entitled to something from their employer."

The problem, Everitt says, it is a play on words, "Whether it is temporary or not, these people have seen their jobs disappear. "

Previous Story - Next Story

Email |

Print |

Facebook |

Twitter |

Digg |

Del.icio.us

Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 04:00 AM in News by 250 News

Return to Home

Comments

Posted by: michael on March 5 2008 5:57 AM

The rulers south of Hope don't care. They have cut the budget for the forest ministry now. We've listened to MaryAnn Arcand talk about unsafe roads but apparently our MLA's haven't

Posted by: YamaDooPolCat on March 5 2008 7:38 AM

Unions... So if the company does start up again, and why not, does the company get the severance pay back, or just start over with new people?

Posted by: zoom on March 5 2008 7:54 AM

A 'forgivable' loan to the employees would be a good idea. If they are off for two years then they do not have to pay any back, if they go back to work in one year then they pay half back. Of course all the funds would be spent in first 6 months and the forest company would have to go to creditors to recoup their 'owed' money, if employees did not accept the offer to return to work.

Posted by: ammonra on March 5 2008 8:13 AM

Look up the word "permanent" in the dictionary, Yama, it will answer your question.

Posted by: Oldtimer on March 5 2008 8:23 AM

Frank Everitt, blah blah blah. I am really tired of him talking about all the mills that are closing down.. When his union brothers in Mackenzie got their pink slips he was no where to be found.. He has not nor any other union rep come to the aid of the Abitibibowater's employees. The employees were told by the company on Jan 11 at 6:30 am that this would be their last day of work. you would think their leader would have been there at 9:30 ( concidering the 2 hour drive) to be there for the employee's who felt forgotten by their own union. What kind of leader ship is that?? When Canfor annouced its shut downs the union was there talking to their members.. now Winton Global. What about Mackenzie?? 70% of our work force is down.and still all the men and women that worked for Abitibibowater haven't had union support...

Posted by: socredible on March 5 2008 8:23 AM

And we wonder WHY there has been so much 'consolidation' and 'concentration of ownership' in our forest industry in recent years.

When Unions come out with this kind of stuff, one wonders how long it will take for them to lose what's left of their already declining membership.

For where is the incentive for ANY employer to hire more workers, indeed ANY workers, when faced with undeterminable costs of this nature when the business is already bleeding red ink?

Employers already are overcharged with payments at $1.40 into EI for every dollar contributed by their employees. And that fund has swelled the coffers of our Federal government enormously. Use it to fully fund the unemployed at their regular rates of pay till normal times resume.

Unions are just cementing the final bricks in the development of the ultimate corporate forest monopoly in place when they seek to impose these further costs on an industry already overburdened with costs.

Posted by: realitysetsin on March 5 2008 8:27 AM

So Everett is admitting they negotiated poorly, yet still took the 70 bucks a month in union dues from each of these workers?

Great union.

Sounds like failure to adequately represent to me.

Posted by: seamutt on March 5 2008 8:43 AM

How come there is so much union bashing. Must be jealous I guess. Why don't you check out what the top heavy management gets.

Posted by: pulpworker on March 5 2008 9:09 AM

management severance is usually a year or two of wages. that's 52-104 weeks, much more than those evil greedy union working stiffs. We should get rid of unions after all, why should the working class be entitled to a
- 40 hour work weeks (todays youth are well adjusted and don't need family time)
-health benefits ( a U.S. style private insurance is available for a family at a paltry $1500/mth)
- overtime (shouldn't we be lining corporate coffers at straight time)
- stat holidays (no one deserves a paid day off)
-minimum wage(I'm sure corporations would just pay out of the kindness of their hearts)

All the union bashers should provide facts and figures as to why their so anti-union. Otherwise your just spouting rhetoric and showing how ignorant you really are.

Posted by: realitysetsin on March 5 2008 9:11 AM

Jealousy. Yes, that is it.

I started in the union and saw the writing on the wall, stepped up to the plate and eventually got into management. Having done both union and management I can tell you that it would be very hard to go back to union.

Half the pay, dead end job, crappy pension, miserable coworkers, no thanks. Not for me.

I've been on plant committee's and gone to (then) IWA conferences and have seen what the union brass does with the money they get from guys. It would make you sick.

I've seen first hand how the union brass wastes membership money and it made me sick.

I have dealt personally with Everett while in the union and let me tell you if you are hanging your hat on this guy helping you good luck with that.

Do the math, a single mill with 200 hourly employees, nets the union about $15,000 / month in dues.

What service are the members getting for that?

West Fraser Sawmill Quesnel is non-union. They pay no dues, get paid more, get some nice perks and the company doesn't go around being stupid bullying the workers.

Posted by: vulcan on March 5 2008 9:14 AM

Way to go Oldtimer, I think they must be scared to come to Mackenzie, it is not exceptable the way the Abitibibowater sawmill and planner mill employees have been treated by there so called Union, nor there employer. The USW sold there own union members out went CEP tried to get them on board with them, to deal with Abitibibowater so much for union solidarity. It is time that Frank Everitt, realize where his wages come from, and start doing his job before his job is "indefinite idled".

Posted by: Bridge on March 5 2008 10:06 AM

I was a union member all the years that I worked. Never got to be a big union brass but served on many committies and was always active in my union.

Looks like its no different today. There was always a lot of griping about how disconnected the union was with its membership. We had union meetings once a month and guess what in a local of about 1100 members on meeting nights we would probably have 75 to 100 members attend. It was a much different scene at barganing time. Our hall would be jam packed with pepole you never saw at monthly meetings.

All these goody goody two shoe guys that think all unions should go. Better give it a second thought. Sure there are good employers that don't have unions but they are in a minority. It is unforgiveable when you see young people that have two jobs to make ends meet and there employer now owns all the franchices in our city by exployting these young people for profit. and more profit.

So get involved with your union you will have the leaders that you desereve. And dont forget its also an advantage for the employer to have a union. Just imagine if he didnt he would have all the cry babies on this site to deal with.

Cheers

Posted by: redneck on March 5 2008 10:30 AM

Well said Bridge.The unions are necessary in todays world with these large greedy corporations.Anyone that thinks companies would give through the goodness of their hearts is sadly mistaken.

Posted by: gitterdun on March 5 2008 10:46 AM

"- 40 hour work weeks (todays youth are well adjusted and don't need family time)
-health benefits ( a U.S. style private insurance is available for a family at a paltry $1500/mth)
- overtime (shouldn't we be lining corporate coffers at straight time)
- stat holidays (no one deserves a paid day off)
-minimum wage(I'm sure corporations would just pay out of the kindness of their hearts"

Except for the health benefits, these are all guaranteed by employment standards which costs the worker NOTHING so what really has the union got the worker for all the money that they paid in to it? Those union dues could have paid into health benefits although a lot of non-union companies offer it anyways.

If you are union you are paying them to represent you and those workers in MacKenzie should be asking for their union money back. You would do that at any other place that didn't deliver what you paid them to do.

Posted by: Palopu on March 5 2008 10:50 AM

Three major entities that take a working mans money on a regular basis.

1. Big Government
2. Big Corporations
3. Big Unions.

Without Joe Worker these entities couldnt exist, so in effect they should work closey with employees to get the best results, but of course they dont.

Posted by: detoe43 on March 5 2008 11:09 AM

Yamdoopolcat sort of hit the nail. After
2 years of "temporary" closure all laid off workers not only lose any rights to
severance, they lose all their rights.
Seniority, right of recall etc. effectively making it possible for companies to replace workers if they want.
In the case of Winton Global, they are
finished. All management has been given
termination notice, as well as office staff. It seems the parent company, Sinclar Enterprises doesn't want that secret out though, or they don't have the hardware to tell Winton's hourly employees
the truth. If any of the other Sinclar mill employees read this site, pay attention, if they are doing this to WG they will do it to you. That includes management, WG's management got a ridiculous severance offer.
Socredible, have you been paying attention to who holds most of the TFL's in our area? We are well on our way to
becoming a one company town. When all the smoke has cleared and the forest industry
rebounds (it will), West Fraser & Canfor
will be in control of most of B.C.s
PUBLICLY owned forests. Though Canfor will probably have been or will be bought out by some multinational by then.

Posted by: pulpworker on March 5 2008 12:05 PM

Hey Gitterdun
These standards exist because workers demanded them by standing together, not because government and industry thought it would be the nice thing to do. I have worked on both sides of the fence in union and non union workplaces, in management and hourly positions and know that many places do not pay OT for extra work, regardless of laws. Employers need not worry about unions if they treat their people well. The only reason they pay union wages is to keep the union out. Those wages came about through bargaining by unions, as did your wage.
Many people argue that unions had there place but are no longer necessary. That's like saying if those environmentalist went away the forest companies would use sustainable and ethical practices. Putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. Unions,tree huggers, and yes even politicians are the necessary evils of the GLOBAL economy

Remember,without labour there is no capital!!

Posted by: vulcan on March 5 2008 12:20 PM

In Mackenzie Abitibibowater is paying the papermill union employees, and papermill management severance, and has also done the same for management at the sawmill and planer mills, and have only kept a handful of management on retainer, with a few management still working. But the Union employees of the Sawmill and planner mills have gotten nothing, that just goes to shows that the CEP Union, represented there employees, and as for the USW nothing. I do agree with gitterdun, the USW should give back all the Union dues that they were paid by the Abitibibowater employees, because they have done nothing for them so far and don't expect that they will start anytime soon.

Posted by: gitterdun on March 5 2008 2:00 PM

Posted by: gitterdun on March 5 2008 2:11 PM

Oops.......sorry for the second posting.

There are lots of non-union places that are good to work at and its not because they are afraid of the union. I'm just saying its not fair for these guys to pay all that money and then get left hanging. I don't think that they can go to labour relations if they are union. Its just not right that they lose their jobs and don't have anywhere to turn to to make sure that they are treated fairly.

Posted by: Oldtimer on March 5 2008 2:42 PM

Don't get me wrong, I am not a union basher! Unions do serve a purpose. I am just mad at our union leaders, for not being there for the Abitibibowater employees. These workers some of them have been here since the doors were opened in the late 60"s Who was there to explain what was going on, what their options were? Certainly not their Union Reps, It is just like sheep being thrown to the wolves.

Posted by: Bridge on March 5 2008 3:35 PM

Any organization is only as strong as its members. This includes municipal governments, provincial governments, federal government and our union membership.

I was never a union member at any of the operations in Makenzie. It seems odd that their union is absent at this time when they need them most. That begs the question how did the membership support their union when they were happy and employed?

Where is their local executive at this time? Have they asked for assistance from the parent union? The truth is their are any union bashers out there that will mean mouth unions no matter how untruthfull they have to be. And there are the stooges that love their boss and will brown nose to get some recognition.

Cheers

Posted by: gitterdun on March 5 2008 3:57 PM

Did a little digging for those union boys and found out some stuff......."If a collective agreement does not contain group termination benefits equal to
or greater than that provided in the Act, then the Employment Standards Act
applies. Questions about the application of these sections to employees under
a collective agreement must be addressed through the grievance procedure."

The Act also states "An employer is not required to give notice of termination or pay compensation if an employee is laid off temporarily. A temporary layoff becomes a termination when:
� A layoff exceeds 13 weeks in any period of 20 consecutive weeks, or
� A recall period for an employee covered by a collective agreement has
been exceeded.
When a temporary layoff becomes a termination, the last day worked is the
termination date and the employee�s entitlement to compensation for length of
service is based on that date."

I think this means after 13 weeks they should get their severance.

Posted by: kosmo01 on March 5 2008 4:34 PM

If they are going to shut Winton Global down, they should have the balls to tell the hourly people now.

Posted by: metalman on March 5 2008 4:43 PM

Like to make a comment to Redneck, not all companies treat their employees the way you assume. You are right on, if you are describing SOME companies, typically large corporations, but smaller companies would have trouble retaining quality people if they did not treat them properly. Furthermore, my experience with SOME unions is that they are there for the money first, representation second. I suppose they need the money in order to represent, but some of the above comments against unions are quite accurate, in my opinion. It is true, we still need unions, and tree huggers too, most of us have a place in this world, some are still looking for it though.
metalman.

Posted by: NMG on March 5 2008 6:31 PM

"But smaller companies would have trouble retaining quality people if they did not treat them properly"

You are indeed correct metalman. In another 5-10 years, there is going to be such a huge labour shortage in EVERY sector, that any business that doesn't treat its' employees well, will have a very difficult time remaining in business. There will simply be too many options for people still active in the job market. The businesses that treat their people well WILL attract the quality workers and they'll gain significant competitive advantage as a result. I believe that unions will eventually become redundant in every sector that relies on the open market for survival.

Posted by: detoe43 on March 5 2008 6:53 PM

Thanks Gitterdun. Unfortunately for anyone in the Steelworkers/IWA the recall period under the collective agreement is 2 years. Not too many workers can stick it out that long. Why this was negotiated like this defies comprehension, but that's the way it is & all affected will have to find a way to live with it.
It's too bad that a once seemingly upfront company like Sinclar Enterprises
is choosing to treat Winton Global so
callously, like a piece of feces underfoot being scraped off. Sign of the times I guess.

Posted by: lostfaith on March 5 2008 7:45 PM

"Under the Employment standards Act, after 13 weeks of shut down you can collect a severance package to a maximum of 8 weeks."

I do believe The employment standards act does not cover unionized workers. They must have meant ... the labour relations act which is administered by the labor relations board, which is who looks after unionized workers.

Posted by: owl on March 5 2008 10:04 PM

"In another 5-10 years, there is going to be such a huge labour shortage in EVERY sector, that any business that doesn't treat its' employees well, will have a very difficult time remaining in business."

Look at the history of labour shortages and what has been done to offset them in the past in other countries.... some examples ....

1. importing foreign workers
2. increased automation
3. shipping raw products to other countries to be manufactured there

Canada is not a closed system. Unless it closes its borders, labour shortages can be dealt with.

Posted by: NMG on March 5 2008 10:58 PM

"Canada is not a closed system. Unless it closes its borders, labour shortages can be dealt with"

Sure things can be done to help with the situation. The underlying point was that it's going to be a GREAT time to be in the early stages of your career. There will be loads of options and opportunities and the days of needing that "union job" for a good wage and benefits package, are fading because businesses will have to be more aggressive in attracting and retaining skilled employees. I certainly have no fear in regards to what the future job market will hold.

Posted by: justamom on March 6 2008 6:52 AM

Here is a few other things of interest.
If you are employeed at a mill that is a union member of 'steel workers'1-424 and you work less than 40 hours per week. You can be re-imbursed for union fees paid. Go to the union website and fax copies of your pay stubs to thier office. I notice this wasn't made public knowledge in the mill.

Also these mills that shut down temporarily are causing a bigger problem. You are not eligiable for any uic benefits as long as the mill is only closing temporarily. Another 'wording issue'.

Posted by: greenmountainman on March 6 2008 11:52 AM

I am generally in favor of unions, having been in several. However the beast formerly known as the IWA really has let me down in the past. They were more than happy to take my dues when I worked a Canadian Woodworks out on the willowcale. But when we needed help they were nowhere to be found. The only time those lazy twits showed up for anything was the time we were thinking of switching to a different union. The unions have, like companies and government, become so large they are removed from the people and the community. A union with ties to the community would see what is coming for PG, Mackenzie, Quesnel and Williams Lake. They would seriously pressure the government to go back to the old way where if they want the wood, they have to mill it nearby. That way Jimmy Pattison can't just build a big mill in Surrey and ship all the logs down.

Posted by: northman on March 6 2008 12:39 PM

Unions are the reason workers get $20.00/hour and not minimum wage.. Ive worked at non union organizations and non union organizations. I have to say the union orgs are definilty better to work at because you actually have rights as a worker.

Posted by: vulcan on March 6 2008 1:36 PM

Good point greenmountainman, I think everyone should start putting pressure on the government to go back to they old way where the wood was milled where or close buy to where it is was cut, if we don't, all our northern logs will end up down south, and Jimmy will be able to fill his pockets even fuller.

Posted by: just the facts on March 6 2008 11:51 PM

iwould like if people who make comments on these issues would get their facts.The Local union was involved from day one. To just a mom your son or daughter should have read the information sent to them by the union It just makes me made to read this crap people say about unions.To Realitysetin i am gald you decided to go to the dark side I have been on union committees for 30 years and would love to have you in a meeting about grievances and have you running out of the meeting with your tail between your legs. Also when you were in the union you probably said the mangement you now work for were the scum of the earth. Don't be so two faced oldtimer please get your fact right the plant committees would have been involved from the start.The unions office has been open in Mackenzie since the Jan 20 and i have received lots of imformation. They are open tues to thur from 100pm to300pm. To Vulcan we know the members of cep are getting severance but they would be in the same boat as the sawmill workers and the USW members if the company had announced they were on an indefident idle or indefident closure The local union did meet with Presidents Of Both CEP locals in Mackenzie also with Pat Bell and Jay Hill Please about things you do know