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Down Town Energy Plant Another Pie In The Sky Idea For Prince George

By Ben Meisner

Monday, March 17, 2008 03:45 AM

        

The City of Prince George is heading off in yet another pie in the sky plan to accomplish what it is hard to fathom.

The proposed community energy system is poorly thought out, without any real effort at reducing the problems of the City's air shed.

The project will cost according to the City (and as we all know virtually nothing comes in on budget) $8.3 million dollars with the Canada, BC Municipal Rural infrastructure fund throwing $5.3 million into the program.

By building the facility, will we then see better air quality with the industry in the community cutting their emissions or for that matter the city using more common sense in sweeping streets and no longer using materials that cause severe road dust ?

Don’t be silly, the City hopes that industry and people with wood stoves will follow the lead.

Lead in what the new facility that the city hopes to build will emit 1 tonne of pm2.5 a year, and will see a b-train full of material arrive every, “three or four days". Well that is at the outset, but keep in mind the City would like to expand the facility, sell power to the BC Hydro Grid and maybe even provide heat to some down town business.

Well I hate to rain on the party but BC Hydro is not interested in the power that the City might produce, in fact, the Minister in charge has already said  Prince George will not  be getting access to the grid.

But there is more to this offer, buy into this program today and in a few years (just as the beetle wood runs) out we will charge you more for the product that you need to run your facility.

What of those pesky people who own fire burning appliances? Well did I neglect to tell you that the City figures that when they introduce their new facility you will immediately jump on board and buy a new wood burning appliance which will reduce your contribution to the air quality by 17%. That is the figure that has come out of  the new  research which  has  yet to be  made public.

You may ask, Oh prey tell how did you came up with that figure?  Do you know how many wood burning appliances there are in the city?   Answer:  well golly gee whiz we don’t,  it’s just an estimate, but we do know how much you contribute to the air quality in the city.

The whole affair has the stink of a pulp mill. If you want to introduce such a facility put it where it can cover a large complex like UNBC, which by the way is  already plumbed for the project and where it might be shown to accomplish what you want the world to see.

I can’t help repeat what Councilor Don Basserman had to say at the meeting discussing the project.” It will go a long way in putting us out there to demonstrate to the world that this Council really cares about what they do and how they do it “.

Before we try and pretend that we have suddenly gone green, we had better get our ducks in a row. The pulp mills, the refinery and the other major contributors to our air quality are sitting back and laughing like hell… I wouldn’t even be surprised if they would vote for the same Councilors.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.


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Comments

We're very fortunate to have this man's opinion and investigative skills' Thank you Ben!
If council is serious about cleaning our air and reducing greenhouse gasses, I think
the 8.3+ million should be put towards the development of a ring road for the city.
Well Hindsight! I would rather call you Foresight and I agree 100%.
What a crazy city we live in. The woodstove program is a provincial program that 5 other cities are participating in. Yes, it will help our airshed out. Thats good, its a start and there is a great deal of work ahead.

Oh, but wait a minute. The city is going to use that to offset its crazy bioenergy scheme. Oh well, so much for progress. I guess the bar for air quality is being set at todays standard, some of the worst in the country, rather than starting down the road to improvement.

8 city buses is what this plant is supposed to add to the bowls air. Problem is it is from a point source located in the absolute worst air in the city, the millar addition. Concentrate it all in one spot and the effect isn't the same.

The scheme was dreamed up when the city had plenty of beetle wood coming from city parks to fuel the system. Now that waste wood will be coming from our forests and trucked sometimes hundreds of kilometers to fuel the plant. Hmmm, make sense to you?

Also, remember the transition house recently approved in Millar Addition. Well, it was another one of those 'done deals'. The city has the money for this plant already in the bag and has made a commitment to greenhouse gas reductions. This is their plan, without it they have none and look pretty stupid so we have yet another done deal. Oh right, they are already looking pretty stupid with this idea so hard to look worse. Can't wait to vote these folks out of office, not sure my lungs will make it to then though.

- signed
desparately seeking clean air in millar addition
thanks for answering my questions Ben. I like your comment on the ring road too hindsite! Woodstove efficiency has to get a lot better than 17% less emissions in order to not further hurt our airshed. I think this "woodstove swap" scheme will make people who haven`t used their old woodstove for 20 years, but will now rush out and buy this "new model" because they get a discount thanks to our city council.
Brilliant...now we have 10 times as many woodstoves going.
Has anyone heard of a petition starting to protest the wood waste plant proposal??
I`d like to sign it.
Ringroad yes, air pollution plant no.
This is shear madness. If we let them go through with this bioenergy plant we deserve what we get. So lets get the petions going and get on with telling them what to do with their idea. AND ALL OF PRINCE GEORGE NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS ISSUE.

Cheers
I still believe the hot water pipe from the ICP, PGP mills used to "melt" the ice is the most affordable solution if there really is a problem to be solved. It is only costing $8k day to run the water to almost downtown now. They are reducing the temp of the water so why not use this excess heat to warm up downtown???
If the university is plumbed for this already why don't they build this small plant up there to meet the campus needs, use the facility for R&D, and put the particulate out up high on the hill so the wind can disperse it.

-The university could work on ways to bring emissions on these kind of plants down, and maybe the province could support this research as part of their plan to make BC an "energy superpower" maybe the feds could cough on some green bucks too. ( won't hold my breath on either of the green posers in BC or Ottawa)

-The college could train more trades people and power engineers (both in high demand) to support Gordo's green initiative. Students could benefit from seeing state of the art technology up on the hill.

-Since biomass is the "energy of the future" the city could try to tie in the industry to set up shop in the heart of Beetle Country benefiting from R&D at the U and our great transportation and logistics that we keep hearing about.

-By putting this plant up on the hill it would cause less of a problem in the bowl. Have you ever noticed the stack at the Kamloops pulp mill? It runs a long way up the hillside high above the river bench.
Maybe someone should light up a smoke and lean on the fender of their idling truck at 5th and Scotia when this plant is built and see if they get fined for polluting our air. 5th and Scotia will be a no-idling zone won't it, Mr. Mayor?
I cannot believe that in this day and age the City is proposing to build a particulate-emitting energy plant in our bowl area. They should be looking to reduce, not offset fine particulates! And locating an energy plant 100m from a school and daycare where little kids will be, are they crazy?

The idea of reducing greenhouse gases is good, nobody will argue that. But the fact that Prince George needs clean air to breathe is far more important. There are a number of non-emitting alternatives that would achieve the same ghg reductions with zero emissions and far less risk to taxpayers. But here we go again, the City sees the funding $$, makes up their mind on something and plows ahead with it.

I think a petition against this is a must, and the petition needs to state that in the upcoming November municipal election, we will NOT vote for anyone who supported this project and what it will do to our air and our kids lungs. I know I won't.
Cheers
If anyone hears of a petition, please post the location on this site. This is a very serious situation and must be stopped in its tracks.
I agree with Citizen1 - why is this being proposed in the airshed of the bowl? I cannot support this, nor be conviced of it.

From a business case/taxpayer perspective, why are three levels of government proposing to permit, build and run this thing? Sounds like an expensive disaster for our taxdollars. Where is the private industry on this? If it is as good as the city says it is, the privates would be all over it like they have been in other cities.

My family will sign the petition and we'll make sure to not vote for any council member who thinks this is a good idea, you have my word.
hmmmm...no petitions to be had yet...might be too late to stop this plant. I was hoping that the miller addition group might start one or at least take advantage of the 250 forum to voice their views.. Ben...do you know of any petitions happening?? Enjoyed your ideas pulpworker...thanks!
The dumb and dumber of the mayor and council is exactly why so many people are moving out of PG. Myself included.
I truly miss the fine people of PG but council was an absolute disgrace.
I think PACHA would boost its membership rolls significantly if it started a petition to stop this project.
The Millar Addition residents will be looking for support from everyone in PG who cares about their health, their tax dollars and their sanity. We need to be ready when they are, and take this on in a united front against a 1960's mentality wearing a 'green' cloak that is constructed of nothing more than wishful thinking. To consider placing such a plant in our airshed is a slap in the face to anyone who participated in the Mayor's Task Force on Air Quality.

I will also not vote for a single politician who supports this, and will do my best to make sure everyone I know also considers this the best option to bringing PG into the 21st century.
We will be putting together a petition within the next couple days. When it is ready I will post the information on this site. We will need all of Prince George's support!
It is a known fact that people in power do not take heed from petitions or mob rule. So before you get yer knickers in a twist
and click the mouse, just kinda nicely threaten those involved to forget this plan or they will be looking for a real job after this November. I sure wouldn't want my country, province or city to be run by petitions or mobs. Would you? Just a word or two in the right ears will suffice. Unless they are brain dead or arrogant, I think they will listen.
Good point Harbinger!
Fastest way to end this assinine idea is called an "election".
The only thing would-be politicans understand is votes.
Protests and petitions are usually disregarded.
Count me down as another PG resident who will sign a petition that is put together and who will also not vote for anyone who continues to support this (MLA's and MP's included). I alo think we need to advise our political representatives as such, either through e-mail, phone calls, drop in visits, etc.

This is pure insanity and it has to be stopped.
Harbinger opines: "It is a known fact that people in power do not take heed from petitions or mob rule. "

Yeah, at election time we are the much sought after and much cherished voters but in-between elections we are *the mob!*

What is reducing greenhouse gas going to do? Supposedly greenhouse gas is increasing but the earths overall temp has been decreasing since 98. Folks do some research. We are being scammed by by climate alarmists. Gore, Suzuki, univeristy profs and scientists are making a good coin off this scam.
It appears to me that this has to be the first, or at least one of the few topics that has been opened up for opinions on this site where ever person is against the issue ... in this case the issue of building a wood fired CHP plant in the downtown of PG.

I wonder which of the several councillors that lurk here on occasion has noticed that and told the rest of their partners in thier contemplated air pollution crime.?

;-)
Not only may the global warming be a scam, which I am not quite sure of yet, but the bigger scam is that should global warming be partly the result of GHG emission increases over the past century or so, that the great greenhouse gas sniffer in the sky can tell the difference between a Carbon atom from a renewable resource and a Carbon atom from a fossil deposit of C.

;-)
Not only are some of our politicians out of line but city administration takes the cake for pushing this crap on us. This project has been on the books for years and it is pushed by the Director of Development Services. Was this a way of justifying a trip to Sweden because it sure doesn't make sense any other way

The main reason I believe this whole project is ridiculous is the financial side.

The plan is to displace 48,000Gj of gas annually. These days most high volume commercial consumers of gas pay $9-$10 a Gj delivered. That said the cost of the gas that they are to replace is $480,000 annually.

This plant is to be run by municipal employees and not entry level either as boilers and big fires are not to be treated lightly. A ball park with benefits will cost $175,000 for two people and that's really conservative. Trucking costs sure as heck are not free. Conservatively to feed it 120 trucks a year or one every 3 days. 120 x $250load(really cheep)=$30000. To haul the ash to the dump 50 loads a year 50 X $250 = $12,500. These are just 2 expenses and we are at almost half the cost of the fuel they plan to replace.

Hog fuel(the majority of the stuff they burn) at this point is a surplus but history has taught us that if something has a high demand the price goes up. With Canfor the University and others getting on board with more rational plans hog fuel will have a significant cost in the near future. What about financing cost on borrowing 3 million dollars to top up the 5.3 million from the federal/provincial grant. Don't forget this is all our money.

When did making an 8.3 million dollar investment to generate an unlikely profit of $240,000 a year become a good bet?

$8.3million making 4% interest is $332,000 a year and it doesn't kill our kids.

At this point the only person getting my vote is councilor Deborah Munoz, that took guts.

The rest of Council and Administration Smarten up.




Jack .... I think you are presenting the start of a reasoned financial argument. However, it is very "ballpark" at this time since we really do not know a few key things that would make or break this project from a financial point of view.

One is, do not assume that there will be any ash to remove. In fact, this plant might use a process which will recover a significant amount of carbon and provide a marketable item.

The other is that due to the GHG bean counting system that is being implemented throughout the world, it appears GHG produced from biomass is not counted and can be, or will be tradeable on the open market for revenue.
Since we ALL breathe the same air we should ALL have a say in whether this thing will go ahead or not!

I strongly suggest that this should be decided by public referendum in November when the next municipal elections take place!

Until then, it will be on hold.

Anything less than that is very undemocratic and disrepectful, in my humble opinion!

Or are the deciders at the City afraid of the will of the people???
Referendums? Ha ha ha . Only Quebec has those. Hope we all don't forget about this bad stinky air item before November.
Harbinger, let's hope people do remember!

Actually, the idea of a referendum came to me in a moment of delusional madness, when I thought: wouldn't it be nice and different if *ordinary* people (the ones that pay all the taxes) could become empowered by it to actually be able to have a say in something!

O.k., back to reality. We don't count!