Times are tough, everyone has to suck it up a little.

So tell that to the fuel suppliers....that is one of the biggest costs for contractors. And to Finning and Brandt.....drop the prices of your machines, service rates and parts by 10%. How about Ford and GM, as dependable vehicles are necessary part of contracting. James Western Star and Inland Kenworth are just gonna be slashing the prices of trucks and parts. I'm sure ICBC and Kal Tire want to do their part and cut prices 10%. Cut back everyone's paycheque. They were all just saving that 10% for a rainy day anyways. Just cut a little here, a little there...,oops there went the benefits. How about the safety co-ordinator? I guess he's gone. I'm sure they'll all just suck it up a little so that everyone can keep working.

No one has to worry about a thing, cause of course Canfor shared when they were raking in the big bucks.

10%.......Richie Bros.

I wonder, since times are tough for those employed and servicing the forest industry, will they get a 10% cut on the grocery bill at Uncle Jimmy's stores? King of the A-Holes!!

10% cut of what? Last year's unit prices? I am assuming that Canfor has not been pushing as much product through. There should be less hauling, less harvesting, etc. etc. As far as I have heard there will be 30% fewer trees planted in BC this year than last.

So, it is not only the amount of work that will be cut, but also the payment per unit of prodcut/service? Everyone knows that in a typical operation there are savings to be had on a unit price basis if the units are increased. It works in reverse as well. The fewer units are produced the more the unit price goes up.

Sounds to me like they are actually asking many for considerably more than 10% .. more like 20 and 25%.

Project Endurance????? Do they think they are George Bush fighting a war of some sort?

How about Project Submission?

How about Project Coercion?

I realize they have to deal with this, but it looks like they gave their PR consultant a 10% cut already and they got a 90% baked idea.

I am always amazed with how these corporate companies work. You will never see management take a 10% cut. It starts at the bottom and works it's way up.

Always affecting the ones that need it most. Unfortunately during these difficult times, people are willing to make these cuts out of fear for thier future.

Actually, as this article fails to mention, as part of Project Endurance, all Canfor employees are taking a pay cut.

It would make everyone feel better knowing that the entire company was taking the 10% cut.
Until a spokeperson from Canfor comes forward with the comment..it is purely speculation to readers.

Maybe the writer of this article wanted to focus on the impacts to contractors. Canfor can't tell opinion250 what to print.

Justamon;

Actually Canfor staff did take a cut. I don't recall the exact numbers, but it was more than 10% for upper management, down to something like 7 or 8% for front line supervisors.

Canfor is losing more than a million dollars a month per site. This is public knowledge. Why should they be expected continue to lose that kind of money without asking for 10% from their contractors?

It baffles me that one would expect Canfor to lose money, yet speak out of the other side of their mouth and say contractors can't be expected to tighten their belts, let alone lose money.

Is it just because Canfor is bigger? Why?

Maybe the writer of this article wanted to focus on the impacts to contractors. Canfor can't tell opinion250 what to print.

It is time to get out of the forest industry and head to Alberta where the oil is.Somehow I just think Jimmy Pattison has something to do with this.I may be wrong but it sure sounds like something he would be behind.Pisspulper understands where it is coming from.And you can bet there will be no discount at Jimmys food stores.

I'm thinking it's better to take a 10% pay cut than a 100% pay cut when the mill closes down.

profits used to be huge in logging.......nowadays why would anyone bother getting out of bed to log.
canfor CEO should roll back his wage 10%,and that of the other managers in canfor as well.
And pay the little guys more, not less.

I am happy knowing its a corporate cut. I didn't read that, or see the article.

These are tough times, trust me I know-. Anyone working in the forest industry is affected. It's a domino effect-and smaller single industry communities are feeling the effects right from the grocery stores-to small businesses. We are seeing huge increases in the price of products. Everyone is suffering in losses. Fuel is high and living in a rural community usually means traveling some distance to get to work, adding a significant increase in uncontrollable cost . The cost of living is continually increasing and wages are falling. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to do the math.
In a make less-spend more situation its stressful. When your working less, making less per hour, spending more and asked to take further cuts, there has to be a line.

The ironic thing is you have unions like the pulp mill unions that are creating all sorts of blocks to efficiency that ripple throughout the whole saw milling sector, yet they are not asked to share in the pain.

The word is if you question them and their ways you will not work for Canfor directly or indirectly and therefore your employer or contractor is expected to terminate you or they will not be working for Canfor anymore either. Canfor controls almost everything, so they now rule the whole market through their edicts. Those that now challenge Canfor do so with their economic future on the line if they risk getting on the unsaid black ball list.

Those that promoted the idea of big monopoly multinational forest companies owned and controlled by New York hedge funds, rather than a diversified local owned milling industry, have sold us to corporate slavery in the name of efficiencies of the lowest cost producer last mill standing philosophy that is a win-lose strategy where corporate shareholders win and all other stakeholders (internal and external) lose. We are now seeing the rise of the Canfor class of minions that can now dictate a persons ability to do business in these parts based on there favour with Canfor, as determined by the minions.

Gordon Campbell must just love this as a fruition of his agenda... especially once the break between tenure and local milling is finally made a thing of the past in practice since Gordo has already done his part to enable just that as the next stage....

PG should change its name to Owned by Canfor. IMO take your pay check (minus 10%) and go to the casino, so you can pay for the politicians that brought you this.

May they should change there name from Canfor to Canmart.

Eagleone you are so right..its unfortunate but in all honesty its a corporate world. Canfor for example will and does dictate the future of contractors and employees. more so now than ever. They can implement the -its our way, or the highway' stradegy and the smaller operator will..cave if they want to keep working. Being hungry and underfed...they will work regardless.

Your post reminds of an example of how they work. One of thier grader contractors was asked to make cuts sometime ago and he refused...needless to say he has never worked for them since..he was blackballed.

The lack of rail cars awhile ago made me wonder if canfor and west fraser suffered from lost sales because of lack of available cars. Or were they passing the smaller mills enroute to these bigger corporations ?..

Some good points. Eagleone it is the steelworkers union that represents the lumber sector, but the same idea. I bet you`re not going to see the monthly dues drop 10%. The Steelworkers union has been mostly silent through all of this. JimmyWorld won`t drop 10% off its prices. Although I`m not sure if Pattison owns shares in the lumber end of
Canfor or if he just has pulp shares. I`ve heard that once spring breakup happens that`s it maybe until next year. Any truth to that.

detoe43
Actually the steelworkers would see a drop in monthly dues.

The rate is based on a formula that is something like 3 hours pay per month. (not sure the exact numbers but it was something like that when I was on the Plant Committee)

So if a guy makes 25 an hour he pays 75 per month. If he makes 10% he would pay 10% less, in this case - $67.50

I would expect to see a bunch of mills tap into HRDC monies and go to 4 day work weeks with EI picking up the 5th day at 55% for the summer. The shuts can't continue without risk of losing people.

Check out the TSX(CFP).. 52 week low so this could also be another reason canfor is cutting back. Things are going to get really interesting in the very near future when the carbon tax rape kicks in and drives up contractors operating costs.

The steel workers also have rebate forms for employees working less than 40 hours per pay period. They can send in thier pay stubs-to thier local, for these rebates. Not exactly common knowledge but if you go to thier site you can get the info needed there.

I've been hearing we can expect to see this market low for 16+ more months.

Yah but.... staff will get the money back in a bonus at the end of the period..

Yah but.... staff will get the money back in a bonus at the end of the period..

CANFOR Does not run Prince George, why do we let them? We should invite all the big wigs down for Canfor, line them all up, and in good old scottish style, turn up our kilts to them and let them know who's butts should be kissed. I am so tired of Canfor dictating things in this town, we would be better off without them. The Cameron St bridge is only going through so people on 1st ave and River Rd can get to them easier!!!

Yah but.... staff will get the money back in a bonus at the end of the period..

I'm surprised the mills are still operating at all. There are a lot of people that complain about what they don't have as opposed to looking at what they do have.

A lot of other mills have closed completely, some for good.

Why would a mill close for good, when the projected downturn is only expected to last another year or two ?

Because they ran themselves right out of money and out of business, trying to stay in the game.

Canfor is walking the line between trying to keep their staff, and closing down completely (thereby stopping the losses and waiting for a better day). I think this is the best you can expect, and I'm surprised they are doing that much.

I can't believe any of the mills are running at all, knowing they are taking huge losses. That is something to think about and be thankful for.

Things could be a lot worse, let's hope they don't get that way.

Last Thanksgiving, as I recall. The manager at Canfor Mackenzie division took all the formen and staff out for lunch and gave them a bonus $10,000 and up depending where they were on the rank. While the worker sits at home for two weeks shutdown eating mr.noodles and kraft dinner. 260 workers lost their job since, only 11 are staff. Our roots are up yours, comunity at dunfor.

The webster dictionary defines endurance as "how long can you take it without using lube"

Never trust corporations people they are there for themselves and the shareholders

The people that bring them this wealth mean nothing to them.

The corporations are not LOSING money. They are just not making the same amount of profit they were.

Correct me if I am wrong but is Jimmy Pattison not the major shareholder of Canfor?
I would be shopping elsewhere other than save-on. They sell farmed salmon there as well.

Can someone tell my if the Tackama mill is going to be closing or not?..I noticed on google finanace on the 23rd..Canfor stocks dipped quite a bit $7.46 per share I believe. A news bulletin was released that 2 more mills were to close-AOL. The link doesnt show the page(shows page not found) and its the only information I have seen, to support such a sharp drop for the day. Other than the regular scheduled shutdown of the other mill in Fort Nelson.

Don't ever fool your self if you think any corporation or government of the day will be telling the truth as to what is really the case with anything. Remember you are all sheep.

Justamom writes
"
The lack of rail cars awhile ago made me wonder if canfor and west fraser suffered from lost sales because of lack of available cars. Or were they passing the smaller mills enroute to these bigger corporations ?.."

I thought Canfor and Westfraser were these bigger corporations. Who is bigger?

Rail car shortages were had by everyone due to CNR incompetence.

For some reason I thought such a request was already made of Canfor suppliers last year? Is this the same one or a new one I wonder.

You've got to wonder when this is Canfor's best option to endure the company thru hard times.

A few of you have touched on the topic of groceries. It's not so apparent, with our relatively strong dollar, but the cost of food has gone up signficantly around the world.

Angry much?

Lostfaith: if you re-read my post- you will realize that I was talking about smaller mills being passed..as cars headed to the bigger corporations (Canfor and WestFraser)...just to clarify that.

However during times when things happen with the incompetence of CNR. It would be interesting to see who has more problems..the smaller mills or the larger croporations. Bet its the little guy..!..I cant see CN saying ok we are going to stop here and load 10-20 cars..when we can haul straight to ..a larger corporation and fill 60...another prime example of why a larger corporation can run more efficiently, in hard times.

OK mom

Justamom - Yes, Tackama is staying open, through the same cost cuts. Even people working at the mill are taking cuts there. But at least it's not 300 people out of a job!

Whineo - Employees only get the wage rollback back once Canfor starts making money again... not anytime soon, and definitely not at the end of the 1-year period (April 10 2009). And if you quit during that time, you don't get it back.

There's going to be more deaths and injuries in the bush as the contractors try to recoup this 10%.

Tackama is not closing. Polar Board is closing. Chetwynd is closing up in April.

Eagleone, I'd like to know how the "pulp mill unions" are blocking efficiencies that affect the sawmills. Chip trucks arrive, dump themselves, and leave. Union has no say as where and when. Same with the hog fuel, except we get the added bonus of boards, boulders and metal to go with it. Creates lots of efficiency there burning gas while equipment is repaired.

This from TD Action Notes dated March 26/08:
"We expect softwood pulp prices to reach a cyclical peak by mid-2008 as demand growth decelerates and
inventories climb. That said, there is likely strong softwood pulp price support in the mid-US$800 per tonne
range. Prices would not have to fall much before Canadian and European mills faced with fibre shortages,
constrained shipment availability and currency pressure, would consider extended downtime."

Pulp contract is up April 30, Canfor Pulp LP is the target.

And will the B.C.government knock a couple of cents off the fuel these contractors use?
Ya right!
Because fuel costs are going to go throught the roof by early summer!
Make way for even more unemployed!

pulp prices are high and lumber is in the $hitter. Jimmy is the big player in both sides. Do ya think he knew this was on the horizon when they quickly "spun out" the pulp trust, conveniently went through the day before the conservatives including ex canfor CEO David Emerson, dropped the tax hammer on income trusts. Conspiracy??

Oh well, we just have to wait until Mr Burns, oops I mean Mr Pattison's days come to an end. Who will be BC's new tyrant?

Tackama is not closing. Polar Board is closing. Chetwynd is closing up in April.

Yah everybody stop shopping at Save-on so they lay off those union employees. Great thinking!

Canfor will do what they have to do in order to stay in business. Asking their suppliers and contractors to give back a little is not unreasonable, let us remember they themselves led the way by taking salary cuts. That is called setting a good example. I think it is important to remember that the gravy days are behind us, things will get tough from time to time, and if we can all pull together it will lighten the load. I am no fan of big business, I detest the actions of large corporations, but support Canfor in their endeavor to remain solvent in these tough times. What concerns me is that in todays' dog eat dog market, not everyone will pitch in, and, will Canfor the corporation remember the little companies that supported them, and make sure to see that they get a slice of the pie when, not if, when the market turns around? I hope so.
The number one issue here though, is the shareholder. Best described as fickle, the common shareholder (introverticus homogenous) is notoriously greedy. A voracious predator, it is known for it's uncanny ability to sense the slightest decrease in evident food supply, triggering a mass migration to greener pastures. It is renowned for the speed at which it can change colours and ruthlessly shatter allegiances. Never trust a shareholder to hang in there for the long term, their entire reason for being is to make (more) money.
metalman.

and so it goes......

So tell me, since the forest industry is not producing as much as they could be and have been in past "normal" years based on their capacity, they are obviously not going to be putting as much into the provncial coffers.

I assume the following:

1. Less from stumpage
2. less from business taxes both from the licensees as well as their contractors and those workers who have not been able to find comparable jobs, or are even moving out to the "oil fields".
3. more for social services for families in need as a result of layoffs. ....

...... etc. etc.

So, it seems to me that to keep the same money coming into government coffers, they would have to up their stumpage as well as tax to the licensees at the least.

So, they should start with a 10% increase based on the argument that industry is using for a 10% decrease. I mean, business is business.

Last I heard Jimmy Pattison owned 29% of Canfor stock.Third Avenue Management LLC has 19% and the Bentley family approx 4%. Between the three they control the company.

You can rest assured nothing happens at Canfor without Jimmy being aware of it.

I think his plan is to privatize the Company, after which you will see some real ass kicking.

Steamer that is interesting information. Thanks. Also I take it you work at Intercon or PG, which IMO are very efficient mills at through putting the wood chips from the sawmills, but Northwood is an entirely different matter. They control the dumpers at Northwood and the dump times, depending on the shift working, can take minimum 3-4 times to dump as it takes at PG or Intercom.. It used to be the drivers that controlled the dumpers, but the union said that was a dozen potential jobs for them and unacceptable, so now they control the dumper from a control room via video camera's, which is a huge safety issue when a guy is controlling the dumper who is not aware of the small issues next to the dumper like a door not opening properly or a truck with its airbags up that could slide into the dumper if not brought back down to fix the problem. Northwood will have 10 trucks lined up for 2-hour waits and the dumper operator will leave the dumper in the air for 20 minutes while they finish their hand of cards in the control room card game. Meanwhile a sawmill somewhere is burning $8000 a half hour in their beehive burner that they can not afford because they have no chip trucks. You add it up a little each day and it adds up to a lot of inefficiency that the pulp mill and their unions can afford, but its a killer to the saw mills as a result of pulp mill union militancy about job creation that creates these unsafe inefficiencies in the name of another job (for them at others expense). Also Northwood has a yard policy of 10km per hour and the other two are 25km, so there is another example, but that’s not all... Northwood has efficiency problems IMO not for their own needs, but in servicing their suppliers and its roots are in militant union actors up there.

The contractors took a 5% cut earlier this year. I believe this 10% cut brings the total to 15% ??

I know a lot about business and I know it's hard to handle, but the alternative is a 100% cut. It's not going to be easy surviving a 15% cut, that's your margin gone. Now, you're just working to stay in business.

maby canfor shouldnt have lost 85 million in sub prime morgages in the states and they would have some money.and wen times wer good did they share the profit no they didnt.

is ther any companies in town that re train on construction equipment.

I believe contractors that have taken a 5% cut earlier this year, will be asked to take another 5% for a total of 10%. In fact I don't think they even have to take another 5%, but then Canfor could look at other options. It certainly is difficult times for all companies. Canfor is asking a lot from its contractors’, but ask yourself would the Mackenzie logging contractors who worked for Abitibi be willing to take a 10% cut if it meant re-opening the mill? I don’t know the answer, but personally I would rather work than collect EI.

Dunfor- Canfor does profit sharing with it’s employees, so please get your facts straight. This is through the CSIP and RONA programs. In addition Canfor is a company with shareholders, so when the company makes money, so do the shareholders. Also your comment about the sub-prime mortgages makes no sense. Canfor did not invest in sub-prime mortgages that would mean Canfor was buying houses and last time I checked Canfor produces supplies for houses being built. When these mortgages were implemented in the US, Canfor and all other forestry companies did make money (and guess what they did profit sharing), but with the collapse of the US housing market Canfor and others have nowhere to sell their products. Thus saturating the market with products, which lowers the commodity price and causes Canfor to lose $85 million. In order to stop these losses Canfor would have to close every sawmill because no mills are currently making money.

Golden Bear;

I agree. Good points.

It should probably also be mentioned that Canfor isn't considered a low cost producer. They need to get their costs down in order to be competitive.

Canfor did take a loss in the subprime to the tune of, if I remember correctly, 55million. Its on their books if you look.
If you call a share purchase plan profit sharing then only the pulp trust has that. The wood products can buy shares but the company no longer kicks in a % of your purchase.
Selling shares at market value is not profit sharing.

golden bear canfor did invest in sub prime morgages with money they got back from the tariff put on lumber by the states. They got back approx. $300 million. Do your homework!

I am a contractor for Canfor. Trust me, I don't think you would go to work and risk everything you have just to be there.

The rates haven't increased in 10 years, and the fuel in the last two years has gone up 100%. Do you not remember the truck strike that happened two years ago? Doyou think they did that because they're making too much money?

I'm sure the 10% cut that Jim Shepard, president of Canfor, seems like a lot because it is. It's approx. $160,000 because with bonuses, salary, his total take home wage was in excess of $1.6 million.

I really feel for Canfor...

chickin