Guess we will just have to take Coleman's spin as the gospel since the public was not allowed to attend. Wow, I'll definitely vote for Gordo next year.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The Jury is out- while I am to the right, I do not believe the liberals and Coleman are doing are good job ( I would give them a F)- however the NDP's 5 point plan is a complete joke and the USW 10 point plan looks like a mid 1970's plan- yes we need change however no one seem's to have any answer's.

The Jury is out- while I am to the right, I do not believe the liberals and Coleman are doing are good job ( I would give them a F)- however the NDP's 5 point plan is a complete joke and the USW 10 point plan looks like a mid 1970's plan- yes we need change however no one seem's to have any answer's.

Nice try Rich....

the question here is will this "round table" garner any real action. The answer is simply No it will not. Not any real action that will benefit BC's forest workers. The BC Liberals have no Forestry foresight, that is in part why 2800 workers in the region have lost there jobs. So Rich Coleman's approaach is he wants people to start thinking about what is next. Who are these people he wants to start thinking about what is next? The same people who have al the while been giving the BC Liberals their bad forest practice advise. Dare Rich Cloeman consider putting a stop to raw log exports or adress the antiquated stumpage system.
Tuesday May 12, 2009 is OUR chance to make real change in BC.

I would never say that Rich Coleman or Gordon Campbell are liars.
But I don't believe one thing that dribbles out of their mouths.

Mr. Coleman should consider a ban on log exports? get the facts straight on log exports- firstly there are no exports from the central or northern interior areas (some from the Terrace area through Prince Rupert), most of the exports are from Private Lands on southern Vancouver Island. Mills on the Coast are the most expensive and uncomptetive in the world= banning exports will only assist these mills for a very shortly periord- we need to get rid of serial notice 102 (only place in North America which restricts log exports). The USW is propposing a back door stumpage system at the mill door (ps this was tried in the 70's)- it will not work and will make all are mills uncompetitive- the rest of the world has separated mills and the woods (55-70% of the cost of lumber is the raw log). Yes we need change but on to the 70's as proposed by the USW.

Bond: "Tuesday May 12, 2009 is OUR chance to make real change in BC."

That's fine, but hopefully this doesn't mean giving the NDP a third shot at ruining our province again.

I'm wondering if humans will ever get out of the 19th century and into the 20th? Maybe by the 22nd?

What a profoundly sick, greedy and stupid species humans are, always entrenched in the thinking that there is nothing more important in life than cash flow. Why don't we start being honest - for a change - and tear down all the churches, temples and such and erect a new structure that truely reflects what humans worship: a 20 story high dollar symbol.

The more time goes on the more I think a virus that would wipe out most of humanity is in order.

How can we make a real change in BC on May 12, 2009???? Another election with no alternative to what we have already.

Kevin~ "The more time goes on the more I think a virus that would wipe out most of humanity is in order."

Spoken like a true Environmentalist. Hope you'll step right up and volunteer to be the first to be infected with it.

Dogs, the problem with log exports isn't that the remaining coastal mills are uncompetitive, it's that there is not a level playing field when it comes to currency exchange rates,(until very recently, the US had a substantial advantage in purchasing BC logs through the difference in the dollars), and that other offshore log markets have mills which can operate without the safety and environmental requirements imposed on industry here.

Chinese smokestacks don't even have the most elemental scrubbers or precipitators on them, let alone any of the other pollution requirements now enforced here.

Their mills often don't have belt or chain guards in place on moving machinery their workers are right next to. If they kill or maim, they're not practically bankrupted by a vengeful W.C.B. ~ life is 'cheap' over there. And there's a steady stream of replacements just waiting for accidents to happen and create some new opportunities for them to take the victim's place.

So far as 'productivity' goes, the worst of our Coastal sawmills is miles ahead of the best they have in output per man-hour worked. And an hour's labour is still an hour's labour, no matter where it's performed. No matter how distorted a trade in 'money' may make it, it's what's produced in that hour that really is the measure of efficiency.

The 'Surplus Test' is a very poor mechanism (in its operation~ not its intent)to regulate log exports. But it's all we have, and until there is some other mechanism in place to address the unfair advantage the 'money trade' and differentials in safety, environmental and labour practices gives our international competitors, we'd be nuts to do away with it.

Surely we should have learned from our experiences with NAFTA, where the cost of gasoline from our own oil resources exceeds that in the USA, and we are seemingly unable to do anything about it, not to unilaterally remove what few trade restrictions we still have on the books in the fond, (and so far futile) hopes that this is going to be of some great advantage to us.

Sorry I have to bring up the past again but raw log exports continued merrily during the dismal decade of the NDP as well! There are loggers on Vancouver Island (some of them aboriginal) whose livelihood depends on raw log exports. This was carefully explained to the NDP and Carol James during a question period last year when the NDP tried to lambaste the Liberals about raw log exports and demanded that the *Liberals come clean.*

Bond: "Dare Rich Cloeman consider putting a stop to raw log exports..."

Sure! Coleman dared the NDP to go and tell those loggers! No coherent reply, of course! Just more mudslinging and refusal to act according to the reality of the present situation!

It's easy to be in opposition - just throw accusations at anything and anyone without having workable solutions to offer! Heavy emphasis here on the word *workable* rather than just the usual wishful fantasy.

Most of the raw log exports go the US to very modern and productive mills- all of which I have personally toured and are more safer and productive of any of our mills. The laregest importer of TW and IT and Weyerhauser wood in Japan has a brand new mill which puts any of our mills to shame. Very little wood goes to China for a number of reasons- first you have to either debark or fumigate the wood and then ship (one one facitlty currently in BC set up to do this). As far as our Coastal mills being productive I would check your facts- recent studies show they are the least productive in the world by far.

Somebody get a rope....

The forest industry in BC is in serious trouble and there is nothing we can do, most of the pine forest is already dead, where are we going to get trees from to run all of these mills? We aren't! The forest industry as we know it is a thing of the past. It will take at least 80 years to be back in the same condition as it was 10 years ago. Some companies are just not going to be around any longer. If you are a young person, don't even consider working in sawmills, do yourself a favour and find something with a future. Mining is taking off really well. I am glad I am coming to the end of my career int eh sawmill business.

Andyfreeze- a rope for whom? I am a Raw log exporter and very proud of it. The current market situation is well beyhond any polictical party.

Dogs, I've toured many mills in the USA, too. And I would seriously doubt that in general they are any more productive per man-hour worked than the remaining coastal BC mills are. Some of their most recently constructed plants may be right up there, but many others that receive logs imported from here and elsewhere are not.

An exact comparison would be somewhat difficult, since the coastal mills here are generally producing different products for a different market than their American counterparts.

While I do not particularly condone the practice, I am not outrightly opposed to all raw log exports. Since history has shown, both here and elsewhere, they often are a precursor to increased lumber sales.

It would be a logistical impossibility for any BC sawmill to cut and deliver all the 1,400 or so different lumber dimensions that might be used in the construction of traditional Japanese house on any kind of a 'just-in-time' basis.

Our mills have about two dozen sizes that are standard, and sorting out more than that would be an absolute nightmare for any of them.

We can gain considerable advantage in supplying the most common Japanese dimensions, and allowing some same species log exports to Japanese mills who can then make the other sizes needed on a far more timely basis than we ever could.

So far as I'm aware, and despite the common feeling to the contrary, there is no proof whatsoever that an outright ban on raw log exports would lead to any increase in employment here. There is no way we can dictate to a customer who wants 'logs' that he HAS TO take 'lumber'instead, and ever force him to do so.

Especially since (for better or worse ~ probably worse) we are 'globalized' now, and if the logs don't come from here, there are plenty of other log exporting countries lining up to supply the same markets.

If there's any 'forcing' it's that WE, and those other countries, are ALL 'forced' to export for international credits convertible into their own currency to make up for an otherwise systemic lack of domestic purchasing power vis-a-vis general consumer prices of goods and services for sale to their respective publics in their home markets.

We are NOT 'free traders' because we are NOT free TO trade, (goods for other goods ~ the only sane basis of any 'trade' internationally), but are FORCED to enter into a distorted trade for 'money' instead. Until we realize and correct that situation, banning raw log exports will likely do us more harm than good.

If any of you are serious about stopping raw log exports in a manner that won't be "biting your nose to spite your face", this phoney trade for 'money' is the first thing that should be looked at. With ALL our present politicos it'll be the last.

watch out for government sponsored monoplies in the tenure business of this province, seems to favour foreign investor companies.

We need more research and development dollars spent on how to cut down trees more profitably. Let's have an oval table on that. Invite yer friends too.

The banning of raw log exports is only the first part of the equation. Does it make any sense to anyone here that plants in BC should be bying sawdust from plants overseas created from processing logs felled in BC. Any tree cut down in BC should be processed in BC and exported. That's how we create and keep the jobs here. That's how we save the lumber industry. The thought of more efficient factories overseas or south of the border is at best a fabrication, especially when you consider how much it costs to ship the finished products back here...

Further. Our neibours just to the south in Washington have banned export of raw logs. Why to protect their industry. They have not lost anywhere near the number of jobs we have their mills are fully staffed and working overtime while our workers ask if you want fries with that order....

Lashart- where do you get your information- Washington state has not banned log exports-73% is private land and their are no restrictions (ps I work on both sides of the border and are up to date on this information) on private land and no permits required. On federal and state land exports are banned(very little wood flows from these lands due to enviromental pressures) - if fact logs are painted red (butts) to indicate that it isn't exportable. So if a longshoremen a log with a red butt they automatically question if can be exported. The mills in Washington state are not fully staffed and are taking down time. Alot of the mills are very modern- Simpson mill at Tacoma employs very few people compared to most Interior mills and a lot less than Coastal mills. If any thing Serial notice 102 must be dropped on Private Lands in BC ASAP.

dogs:-"If any thing Serial notice 102 must be dropped on Private Lands in BC ASAP."

Why?