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We are all Trophy Hunters, We Just Have Trouble Admitting It.

By Ben Meisner

Thursday, May 08, 2008 03:45 AM

 

I usually don’t respond to comments that are made with respect to an editorial I have written. In the case of the issue of hunting bears or as some would say trophy hunting, I must respond.

I am the product of a farm family; I grew up understanding the meaning of trophy hunting and anyone that suggests different simply doesn’t understand.

Humans don’t like to eat old cows; they are turned into hamburger, dog food, or simply dispensed with. We trophy hunt the young ones, the ones that are still tender and young to eat. Have you ever stopped to watch a cow being taken away from its yearling calf?  The calf bawls , and so does the mother, sometimes for days. But then we seem to think that hamburger and steak come from the hamburger machine and cows are dumb animals.

We trophy hunt our chicken. We don’t want to eat an old chicken that has been laying eggs for awhile, no sir we want to trophy hunt the young chickens, and what do we do with the old laying hens, the ones that have been delivering those eggs you eat? Well they may, and I say may depending on where you live, get turned into dog food, but rest assured not all of the chicken is used up.

Now what about those eggs we eat?  Well what a surprise, we keep those chickens in pens so small they can barely turn around, they don’t get to see the light of day, the moon or the sun once in their life, but they are dumb right?  We only want eggs where the yolk is not too dark so that chicken, heaven forbid, cannot be let outside.

But wait you say, you only eat free range chickens, well that’s trophy hunting also.What’s wrong with the old laying hens?  Now you say "I only eat free range chickens"  really, well they may get to wander around the room with the other 5,000 chickens, and yes they are not penned up, but they also will never see the light of day.

Then there are those fish, those salmon that we eat. They after all are dumb as well, and we try to eat only a certain size, trophy hunt them right. But wait again, are you to suggest that a salmon that swims up the Nechako River after being at sea and travelling as much as 10,000 miles, and passing 100’s of rivers only to find his own river isn’t trophy hunting if you catch them along the way or at sea? They after all must have amazing intelligence in order to leave the stream when they are barely 3 inches long and undertake that amazing journey.

Then there are the fellows who say that the guides look at them rather funny when they head down the trails on their ATVs. Of course they may, given the fact that the skunk cabbage,  and green grass, those first sprouts that the trophy bear you are trying to protect need in order to get its system working are being ripped out  by  those  atvs. But that is somehow different.

I grew up on  a farm and  there were lots of occasions at night I cried knowing that a cow, chicken, pig, or turkey that had been my buddy , died yesterday in order that we could live, whether it be to people who trophy hunted the special cuts or not.

I don’t pretend to be perfect. I have hunted and fished my entire life. My contributions to the resource are a matter of record. My heart bled for the calf moose last winter when after people continually let their dogs chase the beast or snow machine harassed it, it finally cracked and fought back.

My heart bleeds when I see a mother bear and her three cubs, "re located” from the city because they have gotten into our garbage on their territory and they must be re located so  not to harm those people who have trophy hunted their favorite green pastures. I understand their fate in most cases and my heart bleeds for them, because no one comes forward to plead on their behalf that someone has taken their ground.  

I have also seen a mother grizzly fight for her life trying to save her cubs from a large male, the one by the way that is very old and past his prime that we call trophies, hoping that the boar will not kill and eat her cubs, so that she will come into heat.

We are all predators; it is just that some of us like to hide behind some fake wall pretending that we are not.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Comments

Well said ......

"We are all predators; it is just that some of us like to hide behind some fake wall pretending that we are not."

BRAVO!!!
Well done and so true Ben.
Well said, Mr. Meisner.
Thank you Mr. Meisner.
metalman.
So if you see a guy with a "trophy wife" just beat him up.
OK, I'll be the odd man out.

There is nothing that says we must eat meat, nothing! It is a choice, not a must to sustain our lives. The oldest people on Earth, on average, are people's that either eat very little meat or none at all (Google it).

Our design - the human body - is far closer to that of the cow than it is to the bear. Check our teeth for instance, are they more like a cow or a lion? Same with the rest of the biology of the human animal. We are by design a plant eating animal.

Then there is the harm raising meat is doing to our planet. Half the grain raised in North America is going toward the raising of meat. This in light of the food shortages currently circling the globe. Cows put out huge amounts of methane, a more pernicous green house gas than carbon. Cows use huge amounts of water, an estimated 2 MILLION gallons per cow from it's birth to your market, this in a world of increased fresh water shortages. Cows do huge amounts of damage to wildlife the world over. Millions of acres of the Amazon jungle is being felled to create grazing for cows which are then shipped to America's fast food industry. On and on and on I could cite the negatives of meat eating.

It's interesting to me that in the Bible's creation story when God is telling Adam what he may eat in the garden that meat is never even mentioned, not once! It is not until after the flood - when there is no vegetation - God grants permission to start eating meat, as though it was never God's intention to do so. As stated above, the biology of the human being is one of a plant eater and the Bible story backs up the biology.

I to Ben grew up with a rifle in my hand, killing critters of every type. With time I changed my mind, that killing, even to eat, reflects poorly on humanity. And killing helpless dumb animals with high powered rifles only proves in my mind that which should be plainly obvious by now, that we humans are destructive, selfish creatures.

Peace will come to Earth only when the Earth is filled with peaceful, non violent humans. Violence, be it directed at other humans or animals, just continues an endless cycle of more violence. God's will is that we become a species that worships life, all life. Right now humans worship money and death and look what it's doing for us.
kevin1006

I must say your post made the most sense out of all the posts and editorials.
It was not defensive in nature

Your are a very wise person.
cheers
I think that you skipped a few books when you read the Bible, Kevin. God gave the Israelites very specific instructions on how to sacrifice animals to Him, and on how to properly prepare meat for their own consumption. He also gave instructions that sacrifices to Him were to continue even after the Israelites had settled in the Promised Land and were farming again.
Also, our teeth and digestive tract are those of omnivores (plant AND MEAT eating animals).
Just to clarify some 'facts'. Our dentition (teeth) is NOT similar to a cow. Nor do we have 4 stomachs. Our teeth are those of an omnivore. We are meant to eat pretty much everything. It is a choice to eat meat these days just as it is a choice not to. The difference is that as human beings humans are designed , and thus meant to eat meat (dont bother googling it, read a text book, they are at least reviewed for factual content). If you choose not to believe this, use your common sense. For millenia man (of every culture)has eaten meat. If that doesnt suggest anything to you about who and what human beings are i dont know what will.
We kill to eat, whether it be dumb plants or not so dumb animals. It is a rediculous human construct to rank animals for edibility based on intelligence. Also, if we did stick to such a ranking i suggest we would eat some people before we ate some of the cows I have known (or some carrots for that matter).
I think we all need to get off of the internet as far as our facts are concerned. Where do some of these facts come from?
Funny how people jump on the religion band wagon when trying to sway peoples minds on different issues.

What exactly do you religious fanatics think? Quoting words from, (just another book some person wrote) is going to save the world. allrighty then.
From bear hunting to eating meat...then religion.
So my question is this..Are you Knuckle dragger then? Maybe you sway your arms to change peoples views also.hmmmm
My teeth were designed to eat cookies.
I think that we need to eat meat to keep up our levels of iron, protein and whatever else. I side with the omnivore camp, most of us do pretty well on a mixed diet of meat and vegetables. It is true that you can get your iron and protein from plants but I think that some of the essentials (iron in red meat for one) are more concentrated and better absorbed if they come from meat.
metalman.
Well said Ben
Ben writes, "We are all predators; it is just that some of us like to hide behind some fake wall pretending that we are not."

But are we all human (in spirit) is the real question? Not that we are meat eaters, or as you put it predators (which I would also argue against).

I highly respect the opinion of Ben Meisner... but I have to say this editorial is complete bunk. It is an attempt to blur the line between the despicable act of killing animals for reasons other than food (trophy hunting), and the legitimate act of farming or hunting for sustenance. Blending the two into one, so as to legitimize the one at the expense of the legitimacy of the other. Shame on you.

I don't understand why a person needs to blur the lines between trophy hunting (which amounts IMO to poaching)... and the respectable act of hunting for food (selecting the most prized food is also legitimate) to connect with ancient mans past. The distinction is one between the stunted morals of a person with no appreciation for the animals killed, and the respect one shows to others through consideration for utilizing as much of the harvest (for food) as possible. It is easy to have that distinction burred by rambo when rambo has a new gun and wants to start blasting away... especially when this distinction is not reinforced by peers.

All it does by not making the distinction is bring a bad light on all hunters who wish to respect the animals they harvest and in return have a bullet proof argument to continue their practices.

Bluring the lines between trophy hunting for pleasure and legitimate harvesting of animals is a slippery slope that leads to bears being killed for there gal bladder or fur only, or eagles for their talons, with complete ignorance to the ramifications to nature. I'm not going to go so far as to say Ben is ignorant of nature, but I would say the above editorial is a step in that direction.

A step in that direction because we all need to eat and so to use that against a person as a basis of an argument is flawed from the start and nullifies the importance of what is at issue.

A better argument would have been to say you disagree with the interpretation of the term trophy hunting and you have a definition for it that conflicts with the expected norm for that term... and here is a better term to describe the distinction for people that kill bears simply to harvest a gal bladder, a fur for a rug, or maybe just its head... and leave the rest of the carcass to rot. I call it trophy hunting, and you call it....

I don't know many people at all that actually eat bear meat. Maybe some people support that concept of hunting where the meat is not what they are hunting? Does it add honor to the practice of hunting?

I also don't call selecting the best egg, or selecting the younger cow for its more tender meat anything even remotely close to trophy hunting. I call that selecting the best food because it is the healthiest or looks to be the tastiest.. not trophy hunting?

Personally if you harvest your own animal and that animal lived free and unmolested, then died a quick death, and was fully utilized for consumption as much is practical, then I applaud you for being a more honorable man than I am, for myself eating a burger at the drive through that was harvested in some third world country with no compassion for the life process of the animal. I will concede to you that point of your argument, but other than that our definitions don't match for trophy hunting.
Lewis Prothero, your support of the Jewish act of sacrifice I find very disgusting and the act of a people lacking completely in morals, which are then disguised as a religious right. The act of slitting the throat to bleed to death a conscious animal that is suffering a very painful and prolonged death is nothing short of sadistic. It should never be allowed anywhere in the world much less in Canada. You can keep that tainted meat even if it is sanctioned by the bible. I feel an animal should be killed before it is bleed to death or made to suffer unnecessary pain and distress and I don't need a religion to tell me that.
I also find the Lewis Prothero post devoid of any compassion for living beings! It just goes to show how religious convictions can make people do all kinds of atrocious things!

On the bright side: Thanks for the reminder (to me) to try again to become a vegetarian!
Ben, I think your farming-trophy hunting analogy is off. "Trophy farming" would be selecting for slaughter the oldest bull with the largest horns. It doesn't matter that the meat is tough and only good for dog food, you're not after the meat, you want the horns to mount on your wall.
Trophy hunting is nothing more than highgrading... removing the genetically superior individuals, leaving the rest to reproduce.
"hunters who wish to respect the animals they harvest"

Sort of like sending praises to god as one executes an individual for whatever act they may have committed ..... muslims, christians .... they all do it .... sending someone off to a higher authority for judegement ...

pathetic the things we do with so-called honour and respect .... those who do it get no honour and respect from me ..... they contribute nothing to the betterment of society.
Eagleone, you should read and understand the definition of poaching.
Killing eagles is illegal.
It is also against the law to leave a bear carcass in the forest to rot.
There are lots of people that eat bear.
Do you honestly think trophy hunters only harvest wildlife for the trophy?
Some perhaps, but you are pasting all trophy hunters with the same brush.
I harvested my first Bull Elk a few years ago. Excellent full shoulder mount hanging on my wall. Excellent eating.
Bleeding to death is not a "very painful"
death, on the contrary they say it's quite relaxing as far as dying goes.

Posted by: Raparee on May 9 2008 8:09 AM
Ben, I think your farming-trophy hunting analogy is off. "Trophy farming" would be selecting for slaughter the oldest bull with the largest horns. It doesn't matter that the meat is tough and only good for dog food, you're not after the meat, you want the horns to mount on your wall.
Trophy hunting is nothing more than highgrading... removing the genetically superior individuals, leaving the rest to reproduce.

Raparee, I think you missed what Ben was trying to say here.
Trophy farming the way you explain it is not the way Ben meant his analogy to be understood.
Maybe reread it with a little different way of thinking about it and you should see what Ben means. IMO

Did I say PETA SUCKS?




Posted by lostfaith:

"Bleeding to death is not a "very painful"
death, on the contrary they say it's quite relaxing as far as dying goes."

Just wondering to "they" are. If "they" know this fact, I would think they would be dead?
Singlemom

Many people that commit suicide run a warm bath, light candles, put on some soft music, slit their wrists and close their eyes. The only pain is from slitting your wrists. The rest is like falling asleep and never waking up. Painless.
Interesting - still not sure how one knows for sure that this is painless. I nearly cut my finger off once - hurt like a SOB. I lived to tell about it, however.

Just saying - until someone who actually bled to death can tell me it is painless, I'm skeptical.

Holy Doodle,,,from bear hunting to all this... one hot topic indeed!

"Ben" i again say, put your words to test!
Take a poll on bear hunting in the north!

Posted by: lostfaith on May 9 2008 11:51 AM
Singlemom

Many people that commit suicide run a warm bath, light candles, put on some soft music, slit their wrists and close their eyes. The only pain is from slitting your wrists. The rest is like falling asleep and never waking up. Painless

Now this is up there with "You may need help"

cheers

Getajob
Do you think that if Ben starts a poll here on this site that the results will give any kind of a true result on peoples feelings on the subject of bear hunting in the north. The only respondents will be those that have already posted their feelings here. Now if your talking an actual poll whereas we get a month for everyone to respond to it in the malls, street corners, etc and then tally up the results then I'm all for it.
However if there is no support for it, that doesn't mean there has to be a stop to it. Or is that what you are after?

I'm not trying to make light of suicide if thats what your thinking, I'm just responding to Eagleones post (he brought the subject up) about trophy hunting and singlemoms comments on what I said on the subject. I guess I should have put an LOL in there somewhere sorry.
Having said that, when you bleed out you become unconscious(sp) and don't feel a thing, thats a fact.
Heavens no. I am a fair person and always will be. A poll must be done via a different source.
However Ben's view should be tested and a honest poll will say either way.

Now, Ben is also a fair person i'm most certain that he will prove his point and have such a poll conducted.

Look i had my fair share in hunting chickens,Moose. Never bear as i would never eat one. Grizzly numbers are down big time.
I never supported trophy hunting and never will. I no longer hunt as i have no need to and also, i am more pro animal life.

Ya the suicide comment was lil extreme but i know how these topics can bring it out of all of us.
One thing is for certain...is that we All bring issues to the surface regarless of content.

Lost faith, I wasn't talking about a human making a decision to kill them self, but rather, an animal that has NOT made that decision and withers in distress realizing it will never graze with the herd again. Its a huge distinction that can not be glossed over between the two. A person that wants to shot them self in the head, or a suicide walker, will do the same... but that does not mean normal beings enjoy the anticipation of such a death inflicted on them unwillingly.

I've saw video of the Jewish sacrifice for kosher meat and it was massively cruel and hugely distressing to watch. The cow definitely knew what was happening to it and absolutely did not enjoy it one bit... with the whole death process being a disgusting struggle of fear, anxiety, and panic lasting nearly 20 minutes with the cow clinging to its life until the last breath. If you haven't watched the Jewish sacrificial process then you are not entitled to an opinion in favor of it as far as I am concerned. That did more to change my views than anything PETA could ever do with words. I found the whole mind set that supports this disturbing.

I favor a quick death to any animal that is going to be killed, so as to limit the distress to the animal out of compassion for the sentient being who's time is being terminated. Cruel deaths or deaths for little utility reflect on the person executing it in a way that is lacking of humanity.
"I favor a quick death to any animal that is going to be killed, so as to limit the distress to the animal out of compassion for the sentient being who's time is being terminated. Cruel deaths or deaths for little utility reflect on the person executing it in a way that is lacking of humanity"

I think that sort of sums up my thoughts on the matter.