Good time to go on strike......take a good look around you, most people are glad to have a job, and the rest are looking for a job. Take a good hard look at what your selling and fixing.... Oh they are mostly forest related equipment.

"The Company has made it clear that it doesn't want a union in any of their shops across Canada." says Ed Vincenzi.

How? Are they denying the rights of workers to join a union? There isn't enough information here. Can we get more info on this please?

Hey tinyapplecork, what about the rights of the company, is it fair that the union wants to stick its nose where it might not have any business sticking it? I agree completely with He speaks - those guys working there should have a look at the equipment that's sold there - mostly forestry. Hmmm...isn't that downturn in the forestry killing little towns up here, ie: MacKenzie?

When these striking guys wake up in the middle of the night, and are lying awake worrying about something, think about your job, and how happy you should be that you're employed by an owner that's worried about their bottom line, keeping their people employed, trying to stay competitive while this wood market is down.

I wonder how much support the union will give these guys when a few more machinery/equipment supply places shut down, because they can't bleed more red ink. I imagine they'll say "Hey fellas, we tried for you, but just go out and find another job, apparently the non-union side of the business is pretty busy, so go there, but come back as soon as you can, because we like to suck those monthly dues out of you, so that we can go on that golfing vacation..."

Where is the union sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong there Beesknees?
You apparantly know nothing about how unions work.
For your information "the union" are the people that work there.
You say "the union" like they are some kind of alien beings that have invaded this planet.
Forestry equipment is only part of their business.
First off if they don't have enough work for the union people there, they get layed off in order of seniority. So then there will be people left there that can cover the business requirements of the company.

All the employees that work there are entitled to negotiate a contract between themselves and the company, the employees and the company are the people that have the final say in whatever they both agree to.
Whether there are 100 employees or 1 employee, they are a union certified shop and are entitled to negotiate a fair collective agreement.

Everyone should learn more about unions before spouting off all the bs they think they know.

On the other hand Lomak used to be represented by the Teamsters. They went on strike years ago. The owners used some sort of loophole in the labor laws to close down the business and get rid of the Teamsters then reopen under another name and are now represented by the Christian Labor association of Canada, aka "CLAC".

CLAC is a well known management consultant business that collects due from employees but actually is on the side of management. Do a goole search on CLAC and see how these losers operate.

Google

Whats going on here? This is a union town and when this type of article is published we all expect 90% blind union promotion by uneducated union members. For a moment there I thought I was reading the comments on the G&M or the NPost!

Weird. But ill check back later and I'm sure it will be all straigtened out.

Dont give me this "go learn about union" crap either. Former Teamsters Local 31 shop steward. I would move to the east side and be homeless before I joined another union. Unions create lazy workers, PERIOD.

Peerless didn't want a union either and the workers were told that in as many words. There is no Peerless in PG any more, the company went elsewhere and that was before the current downturn. I am certainly not anti-union. Just sayin.

I guess if things were so perfect at Brandt tractor people wouldn't be trying to organize into a union to be able to get some respect from the employer. Comes down to a personal decision and all of these people are in jobs in high demand elsewhere. This was demonstrated by the workers in Fort St. John who felt for their situation it made more sense to leave. Now Brandt is going to have to try and find a dozen well trained employees if they wish to continue in business. Not an easy task in this day and age.

He speaks...we are not just talking about common laborers that work at Brandt. These are skilled tradesmen, no different than any other skilled profession. They deserve to be treated fairly by the company...to be on par with all the other shops in town and across B.C. John Deere does not just sell forestry equipment by the way, they sell equipment for the construction industry as well.

And beeskness....again these are trades people that actually went to school to learn their profession and they are in high demand elsewhere. They don't have to settle just because the company said so! All they want here is equal wages and benefits, not too much to ask from a multi-million dollar company. The company will end up losing all of their skilled trades people, and they will probably get rid of the union, then they will be left with a workforce that is unskilled, unknowledgeable and substandard.

lostfaith...you hit the nail on the head! Unions aren't that complicated. But some people just don't understand what unions really are. They represent the worker....not the company! They are in place to protect the employee.

To ask these employees of Brandt to actually take reductions in all areas including hours of work, benefits, pension and contributions is pretty awful. These guys need support out there and they are not asking for anything that is out of line.

He speaks...we are not just talking about common laborers that work at Brandt. These are skilled tradesmen, no different than any other skilled profession. They deserve to be treated fairly by the company...to be on par with all the other shops in town and across B.C. John Deere does not just sell forestry equipment by the way, they sell equipment for the construction industry as well.

And beeskness....again these are trades people that actually went to school to learn their profession and they are in high demand elsewhere. They don't have to settle just because the company said so! All they want here is equal wages and benefits, not too much to ask from a multi-million dollar company. The company will end up losing all of their skilled trades people, and they will probably get rid of the union, then they will be left with a workforce that is unskilled, unknowledgeable and substandard.

lostfaith...you hit the nail on the head! Unions aren't that complicated. But some people just don't understand what unions really are. They represent the worker....not the company! They are in place to protect the employee.

To ask these employees of Brandt to actually take reductions in all areas including hours of work, benefits, pension and contributions is pretty awful. These guys need support out there and they are not asking for anything that is out of line.

Ya best thing i ever did was melting my Teamsters 31 card down to make a tooth pick...The line was long and hard we had time to pick our teeth without any support from other SO CALLED BROTHERHOOD UNIONS!
And our leader was everything but!
So ya must say i make more money ,have less stress working non-union..

"we all expect 90% blind union promotion by uneducated union members....Unions create lazy workers, PERIOD."

Uneducated union members, now who would they be? All the union members I associated with at the hospital were quite well educated, you know degrees in psychology, pharmacy, physiotherapy, medical imaging, laboratory technology etc, etc, etc. Uneducated, eh?

Those workers understood all too well the need to band together against a management that would continuously attempt to weasel around the collective agreement.

As to being lazy, I suggest that health care workers in BC are among the most overworked workers in the province. Your ignorant insult to all the nurses in PGRH is a really disgusting insult. Tell them that next time you need medical care, I'm sure they'll appreciate it. Then they will treat you ethically working as hard as they can for your benefit.

Good one Ammonra, sickem.

Born in BC says...."Unions create lazy workers, PERIOD."

Sorry mister, I used to be a Teamsters shop steward but now I have a chip on my shoulder guy.

Unions don't create lazy people.
People create lazy people.

You know the same as... guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Funny how people that couldn't get along in a union environment end up so bitter.

Must be a jealousy thing hey?

You know the ones that used to make 50 thou a year and now flip burgers for 20.

I must confess that I am very surprised about some of the comments that have been made regarding this strike in Prince George and I guess that too many people just don’t understand.

I will have you know that sixty and seventy years ago, our Grandfathers and Great- Grandfathers made grave sacrifices for the security and health benefits that we all enjoy today. Back in the twenties, thirties and forties, employer’s hired gangs of thugs to viciously beat and even murder their employees, all for the purpose of quenching their undying greed and lust for money. As the years passed by, things gradually became more and more civilized and the battle for equal and fair pay finally came to fruition in North America and many other countries of the free world but that is not to say that corporate greed no longer exists. As a matter of fact, the money-grabbing plague of man remains strong and robust and all you have to do is open your daily newspaper to realize that very sad and dark truth.

It is important to note that when union’s bargain and struggle to improve or even just maintain a fair and even playing field, they are actually helping to raise the bar of security for all employees and that includes non-union workers as well.

As for the union members of Brandt Tractor in B.C., they are only asking to recover what was taken away from them four years ago and they are also seeking parody in wages that would come close to our competitors and other companies involved in the same industry.
All around us there are union companies like Fining, Coneco Equipment and Union Tractor who have signed fair and equitable agreements but that kind of justice remains starkly vacant in the minds of the owners and head Management of Brandt Tractor.

I realize that times are tough for many workers in certain areas of our province, especially in the forest industry and like all Brandt union employees, I have great compassion and understanding for their situation and I sincerely wish them a better future. That being said, we CANNOT and WILL NOT allow Brandt Tractor the satisfaction of destroying our union and the very principles that it is founded upon, nor should we forget those who led the way.

Yours Truly….Ed

Wow. Stiking for a union. Thats old school. In todays market if you good a what you do you will never have trouble finding a keeping a good job. Employers understand clearly it is hard to find good skilled people. If you not skilled then whos fault is that?

Strike? That's all we need, fcol.

They should be happy to have a job.

I bet there are 100's of people around in PG who would be happy to start working at Brandt right now.

I am definetly not a big supporter of the unions. That said, I understand that Brandt pays their mechanics about $5.00 per hour less than Finning, so it is understandable why the Ft. St John employess left immediatley. I have heard it said that employers get the union they deserve, some unions work with the employer and some don't, but as an employee union or not, you can only put up with being treated poorly so long. I also understand that these employees gave up a lot ground to help the company last collective agreement and instead of trying to be fair the company is making even harsher demands this time. If it was me I would go someplace else if I had a ticket as the tradesmen are in demand most areas.

From above:

Anti-union guy says 'This is a union town and when this type of article is published we all expect 90% blind union promotion by uneducated union members'

Pro-union guy asks 'Uneducated union members, now who would they be?'

Another pro-union guy says '..they are only asking to recover what was taken away from them four years ago and they are also seeking parody in wages..'

Question answered.

Hey bees, you wrote:
Hey tinyapplecork, what about the rights of the company, is it fair that the union wants to stick its nose where it might not have any business sticking it?

Hmm...my comment was asking for more info. This article really didn't explain the situation well, imo. All I get is that workers are on strike and there is an unsupported quote. I am unable to give an informed opinion on this issue because of it. In general, my belief is, there should always be a fair settlement between employee and employer -- union or non! I am aware of some wonderfully fair employers that are non union as well as those that have unions that work well for both sides. It comes down to 'fair' labour practices and free market, generally speaking. I have also seen firsthand both non union, and union workplaces abuse their positions either from the employees or the employer -- no system is perfect since we are dealing with humans here. I do not believe in a "one size fits" all approach but we do need to preserve standard labour practices. Hope this clarifies beesknees!
:)

Fining actually gets about $6.00 per hr more than the Brandt people.

Some of the other things are: Brandt wants to have the right to start up non-union shops so if they do that, they will just replace the present workers if they don't want to take a big wage cut etc.

Also: Brandt has a 2 teir system and now wants a 3rd teir system that pretty well eliminates a pension plan at least for the first two years of employment.

Their demands are so many that it is clear that they are trying to get rid of the union while times are tough because they think in makes it easy for them. It's greed! plain and simple.

Good night folks>>>>

If anyone is interested, they could look up the history of Brandt Tractor on the net and the many violations that they have been involved in and court cases as well. Beleive me, they are not nice people to work for when you read the facts and hear about the many many workers that they have fired at the drop of a hat.

They are not populare with their customers at all.


Enough for me tonight.

If anyone is interested, they could look up the history of Brandt Tractor on the net and the many violations that they have been involved in and court cases as well. Beleive me, they are not nice people to work for when you read the facts and hear about the many many workers that they have fired at the drop of a hat.

They are not populare with their customers at all.


Enough for me tonight.

Good job Ed.

I can't agree more with tinyapplecork,as I have been on both sides, non-union/union.Every workplace has lazy people.I don't begrudge the person that goes to school for whatever lenghth of time,to improve they're life,or the so called unskilled union joe.What some of these people have to realize,is that unskilled joe,may be putting his life on the line everyday.All the hotheads about unions have to think about is,have you ever had a logging truck coming at you from the side,closed your eyes,and prayed,you would live to see another day.Or been a passenger,with six other co-workers on the highway,the driver falls asleep at the wheel,you hit the ditches,and roll end-over-end,once again closing your eyes,praying you will live.All the recovery time,trying to get your life back to anything it was before,and getting screwed over by large corporations and Worksafe BC,and the changes the Provincial Liberals made to every policy in this Province to screw the working man.This is why unskilled joe blows get the wages,benefits,pensions,they receive.Just one person,that is not on either side,trying to make some of these boneheads,see the light.I could say so much more,but why waste my time.

Here is a link for anyone who is interested in the reality of what's actually taking place on the picket lines:

http://www.iuoe115.com/idex/announcements/brandt_june16.html

Sorry! let's try that one again:

http://www.iuoe115.com/index/announcements/brandt_june16.html

Thx sledhead :) Now I will see what I can find from the company on this issue...geez, mowing down employees?? Shoving? WOW! Sounds like bullying and criminal behaviour to me...Stay safe all.

I understand that the issue in Prince George was the managment employee grabbed a union worker and pulled him out of the way of an incoming delivery truck as he was in danger of being hit.

That's a nice fuzzy spin the manager is trying to put on for manhandling an employee

Thank you Ed for your insight.

I know if it weren't men like Joe Hill or the Wobblies, workers would still face harsh conditions today.

My dad was an Operating Engineer for over 40 years. I remember walking a picket line with my dad when I was a kid after they wobbled over unsafe working conditions.

So nowadays when you work in a safe workplace, thank the guys who walked picket lines and had their heads stoved in.

Gee, Ed, we live in a free country. From the tone of your posts, I assume you work at the local Brandt shop. Union, or non union whatever, if conditions are so bad there, why don't you and others find work elsewhere? I mean, no one is forced to work there, are they? Brandt Tractor has the right to run their operations as they see fit, the employees, I assume, do not have a stake in the ownership, so who are they to dictate to those that do? As others have said, skilled workers are in demand, so should have no trouble improving their lot, say
maybe at an outfit like Finning. Sounds like that is what the guys in FS John decided to do. I am not taking sides here, just pointing out that it is a free country for labour and management.
metalman.

Well, good thread we've got going here. Unfortunately, the passion displayed by some of the people who've left an opinion here, indicates the closed mind some have.

The people who bring up the fact that their "brothers" stood up for rights of the worker, all those years ago, and they'll continue the fight today, is a sorry excuse for justifying a union workplace. Time change, people, and we've moved forward. Safety regulations protect the non-union also. Pension, health and benefit plans are available for the non-union also.

A desire to improve one's standing in the workplace, either to improve the chances of continued employment, or to improve the amount of money transferred from the employer to the employee, is really only available for the non-union worker.

As far as the comments about checking out Brandt's or CLAC's reputation, I spent a bit of time, but couldn't find anything negative from any independent source. However, I do know working people who are members of CLAC, and I've not heard any bad things from them either. As far as Brandt, its not been my pleasure to have done business with them, so I can't provide any first hand comments about their treatment of their workers. I suppose, anecdotally though, we can say that a large business like that doesn't prosper without treating their people with respect.

And one last comment, for the union people who lambast any opinions from others, that don't support the union's efforts to get their foot in the door of the workplace. When you fly, do you choose your airline based on price of ticket or union participation? Hmmm, I'm guessing price. So while your union brothers of Air Canada are being laid off, due to global effects, you're flying the friendly skies of Westjet. Non-union company, for the benefit of those folks who weren't aware of this.

And how many items in your closet (and your kid's closet) are "made in China"? I'm guessing about 95%. So much for walking the walk from you union supporters - talking the talk is all you can do.

Well metalman, this country is actually only a little bit free.

If the union targets a company, the company can fight back by closing the doors or ?? Basicly business people are free to go broke.

And everytime you see someone using words like "weasel" and "these boneheads" and "quenching their undying greed and lust for money", it is always the same on both sides.

For a union company to stay in business it either has to have a monopoly or a very strong market share. Weak companies go broke, so Brandt may be fighting for their life? And if Brandt does go broke the market share would move to Finning, a union company. So if you like conspiracy theory's, one could conclude the unions are target companys in this sector to break the weak outfits. Bad for the investors and business people, but good for the unions.

Like I said this country is only a little bit free.

beesknees
you mention safety in the workplace for union & non-union
I have been to a number of WCB/worksafe hearings and the only 1 time have seen employer speak to increase the strength of a regulation and that was with the trade union as a joint venture I have seen a number of employers speaking to gut or remove item(s) from the work safety issue as they say it costs them money
so in alllikelyhood you enjoy a safe work place because a union has fought for it
much like the non-union people having a coffee break & thinking it is law to do so
if checking on the christians @ clac check www.thetruthaboutclac.ca and if possible see how many times this employers union of convenience has been taken to labour boards because they have not represneted their members properly
yamdoopolcat
you say a union company must have a monopoly or high market share or go broke
there are a number of small unionized companies plugging along just fine
I notice this morning one example in our paper about Ainsworth lumber, who I worked for 30 years ago, is having problems the news releases are saying management was making bad decsions with money
management has the right ot manage even if they don't do it very well
have a good day

Big-Wayne, nice to hear from you. I just can't let this rest, lucky I've got some time this afternoon. I've done a "whois" search on the site you've suggested I have a look at. Now you remember I said couldn't find anything bad about CLAC from any INDEPENDENT

Sorry, got to start over again:

Big-Wayne, nice to hear from you. I just can't let this rest, lucky I've got some time this afternoon. I've done a "whois" search on the site you've suggested I have a look at. Now you remember I said couldn't find anything bad about CLAC from any independent sources, so that's why a little investigation on my part.

The website "www.thetruthaboutclac.ca" is a favourite one of any union member who wants to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt. So who owns the domain; uncertain information from the Canadian domain registry, as it seems the owners don't really want anyone to know. The administrative contact is a Mr. Rob Hall of privacy.ca - you or I or anyone can use their services to hide our true identities. I'll leave it to you, as to why any reasonable individual would want to do that, but I can guess somebody who wants to spread a lot of false information would like to hide their identity.

So on that website, it say's that its a project from the "Alberta Workers' Rights Society, a registered non-profit society..." - well some diligent searching on my part has not found any more information on that business either, but I'll bet you a donut (one of Tim Horton's finest glazed, nothing cheap, you know), they've got an affiliation, a mile wide, to one of CLAC's competitors, heh?

And I'm guessing your comment about how I can thank a union for safety in the workplace will go over real well with a WorksafeBC officer. You wonder why I guess that? Easy, just check out the "Penalties" section on their website sometime, and look at the size of some of them, and against companies employing union members. Hmmm...makes me wonder what's going on here.

Looking forward to that donut :-)

you missed the point beesknees
work place safety violations are usually reported and then investigated by a WorksafeBC officer
WorksafeBC has been cut back so much that they are not only understaffed but they have trouble getting to worksites because of their lack of numbers
usually a violation is reported by someone who does not have as much fear of the master slave relation ship held over them by their employer. usually a union environment
as for the christians and their employer freinds did you have any luck seeing how many times their own members have taken them on for not representing them
they are such a nice group that i have a copy of a letter signed by the CLAC and JJM Construction, the contractor that is doing the Red Rock scales job, this letter says that after working 40 hours in a week your rate is reduced by 20% on any overtime worked so under this letter if i was working for $25/hour when it cam to overtime my rate drops to $20 pretty good huh

I was unable to find a statement from the company other that the decline to comment reported in the citizen on this issue.

Companies who have a union must negotiate in good faith. We do have labour law that supports this. Shirking the law doesn't change the law.

I am surprised that the company has yet to give a public statement. I hope that both sides are able to reach a fair agreement via mediation.

Big-Wayne, you're working on history lessons, again. That "letter" you're talking about is from May 9, 2003, and if you read the full letter, not that snippet of information you've been given, you'll see that the facts were twisted a bit, just enough to spread that uncertainty again, that I've mentioned previously.

And the people who have been widely using that one piece of flawed information, our left-leaning friends of the "Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives", what good have they done for us lately? Are they willing to dip into their wealth of information to provide some solution to decline in forestry industry, strength in Canadian dollar compared to US dollar which stifles trade from north to south, layoffs in the auto-maker business, etc, etc....

As far as the master/slave relationship you've mentioned, let me give you a little history lesson. Slavery remained in Upper and Lower Canada until 1834 when the British Parliament's Slavery Abolition Act finally abolished slavery in all parts of the British Empire.

I know I've taken your comment about that out of context, I'm just having a bit of fun with you.

Still waiting for that donut, eh :-)

Response to METALMAN

To all, this is what METALMAN said and here is my response.


“Gee, Ed, we live in a free country. From the tone of your posts, I assume you work at the local Brandt shop. Union, or non union whatever, if conditions are so bad there, why don't you and others find work elsewhere? I mean, no one is forced to work there, are they? Brandt Tractor has the right to run their operations as they see fit, the employees, I assume, do not have a stake in the ownership, so who are they to dictate to those that do? As others have said, skilled workers are in demand, so should have no trouble improving their lot, say
maybe at an outfit like Finning. Sounds like that is what the guys in FS John decided to do. I am not taking sides here, just pointing out that it is a free country for labour and management

metalman


You are so right metalman, we do live in a fee country but I guess that you missed what I said about how unions were formed and how it all started in the free world.
Secondly, you said, “if conditions are so bad there, why don't you and others find work elsewhere? ……WOW, you figgen blow my doors off! ..because that is exactly what management at Brandt Tractor has been telling their long time employees to do and isn’t that a “coincidence???”

After hearing that statement from you, I have to wonder just who you are and who you are working for?

Sure, we could find work else ware but that is not the kind of people that we are. We would rather make a stand and sacrifice a few things so that we could possibly make things a little bit better for those who follow behind us but I guess that you neglected to think about them,.. now didn’t you!


You also stated (referring to the union employees) .. “I assume, do not have a stake in the ownership, so who are they to dictate to those that do?”

Well first, YOU MORON, those workers have dedicated their entire lives doing the very best that they can at their jobs and in case you have not noticed, they actually guide and design every single aspect of efficiency and productivity that occurs in the shop, while having to deal with every other MORON in the managerial position that has been replaced, time and time again over the years and that is their STAKE, IF YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED!

You seem to forget or understand the real foundation of what makes a company move and grow and develop and it has everything to do with hands on workers, working with customers who appreciate the little things that they do and the intimate connections that exist between these two parties. We all know how companies and their Service Managers try to SCREW their customers by flipping the paper work, hours and numbers, only to make their bosses proud of them. ..So ask yourself this question, ..Who holds the stake in this company and for what reason do they hold that stake?

I could go on but it is clear to me and it should be clear to everyone else that you are either a paid union basher or you are one of many lost souls who lives a life of total selfishness and disgust!

End Of Story!

Ed

Very well said Ed.

Ed, I'll have to chime in here. Personal attacks on another person's opinion is the route taken by people who don't have an argument.

That is how you've replied to metalman. Your shouted criticisms, belittling remarks, and derogatory tone display your ignorance, and thus, lessen the impact of any argument you might have made. Lessen it to the degree that I have no respect for it at all.

Having said that, even though I don't know you, I don't disrespect you, just your shortsighted opinion in this case.

The success of a business is determined by many things, one of them being the employees that work for it, providing the service that they've been hired for, in a reliable, workmanlike manner. Other things that make a business prosper is economics, ie: the product that is being sold is required and/or desired by people, and the price is something they can afford. Another thing is the proper management of the company, from the top down. I can give the example of Westjet (a profitable non-union airline, yes, correct, non-union) to be those three things, and there's many more, maybe even Walmart, where you've no doubt shopped at because the products they offer, are in your price range.

Well, I can list off a few more reasons for the success a company has, but I'll leave that to others. Suffice to say, there are many more people who have a stake in a company, other than the worker who goes home at the end of a day, with dirt/oil under their finger nails.

And I'm not a lost soul, my friends (union and non-union) have not called me selfish, and have never even considered me disgusting.

Beesknees, I was a CLAC member for a number of years. Not my choice but mandatory to work in the job I wanted at that time.

I back up everthing Big-Wayne has stated regarding CLAC, as I do everything written on the aforementioned anti CLAC website.
CLAC is there for the company plain and simple.

CLAC was or has, brought in foreigners, (temp workers) to Alberta that are getting paid much less than real union workers have ever been. Companies love CLAC.

Beesknees
Have you actually read the information on the website?
If you have then you know what dirty tricks CLAC uses against workers in this country.