AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!

What bonehead actually made the decision?? Should be strung up by their shoelaces and used as a pinata!

Total incompetance by the city . Dredge the river and we won't have to worry about the 200 year level. TOTAL LACK OF MANAGEMENT ON BEHALF OF CITY COUNCIL. They are either incapable of understanding the problem or don't care. The bureaucracy runs this city, not the elected mayor and council. We need a new slate of people to put this administration in its place. We need people with no political correctness, no further political asperations and lots of balls. A CAT hat and blue jeans would also be an asset. Hey Ben Iam tryin to paint a picture here. Any ideas????

Hopefully in November there will be a body cleansing of council members and a few more members of city hall staff who have this "Father knows best" attitude.
It seems if the public does not agree with council is doing the public information announcements dry up. Silence is golden. A prime example might be the the ill conceived community biomass energy plant. What happened to the daily propaganda good news announcements?

This is the example and proof that the city allready in jan. 2008 had decided to raise River Road by 2meters regardless of what the justification would be. Between the senior gang in city hall they cooked up the idea of sucking out of the Province funding for this so called berm, but all along they intended it to be the new road to Cameron street bridge. The businesses that would be damaged or destroyed and hundreds of jobs that could be lost?? No one appears to care at city hall or in city council!!!

There is a culture of lying cheating and itimidation in this city hall inward and outward that must change!!!!. Remember Nov 15 is election day ultimitly it is the elected council whom are responsible and accountible to the people regardless of the intimidation by mayors and city senior administration, LETS GET SOME ELECTED THAT HAVE THE GUTS TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED!!!!

Who said we live in a democracy?

Dredge the river. Boneheads .... wake up. The water level is not rising. The river bed is rising due to siltation.

Remember that the City decided a long time ago to raise River Road, long before the ice jam.

They applied to get funding for that, and it failed.

When the opportunity arose, they went ahead to raise it under emergency situations. That is where it will stay, unless we do something about it.

The article states this:

"That tender document shows that the berm now in place on River Rd will remain in place at the height of 5.722 meters, which is 2 meters higher than the old pavement and exactly two meters higher than the old 200 year flood plain level."

I have enlarged that image and it is really missing a key part to get a proper perspective of the work. I has cut off the plan portion and ony shows the profile of the vertical alignement. It shows, among other things, the existing condition of the filled River Rd. That is the reality. It also shows that at the horizontal transition for the turn north onto the bridge, either the paved or the build up road will work.

There is nothing on the drawing that indicates changes to River Rd. one way or another.

Maybe some more information is required to show me, at least, why the interpretation that this portion of a drawing shows that the raised road will stay in place.

I think that the one thing it tells me more than anything else is that the City really needs to set the facts straight once and for all in a public news conference or whatever format they think will do the trick.

Maybe Gordon Hoekstra can take on that as the next series - how open should a civic government be, what are good examples and what are bad examples and where does this city fit into that spectrum.

That, to me, really is the big picture thinking for the electtion .... specific issues come and go and there will always be different sides to those issues and some people will be on one side and others will be on other sides. But I have started to realize some time ago, and it is being confirmed to me time and time again that there are are too many things being hidden from the citizens of this community. That is not good for the well being of the community when thsoe who we elect cannot face the electorate without hidden agendas.

Hey Owl, isn't it interesting that only Opinion 250 took it upon themselves to get the info and write the story? Without opinion250 I wonder if the story would have ever seen the light of day, surely the other media must have known something about this.
You might also note from your "blown up" image, that the inverted triangles are for drainage, so unless the manhole cover (or grates)can be suspended in mid air, I think there is a pretty good chance River Road will be 2 meters higher than it is now!

Who wants make this a political football in the next election. Come on. lets get out there and turn up the heat on the councillors.

"Councillor, where was your position on raising River road to be built as a dike when the decision was made last winter, and what is your position on the new road elevations?"

Get those councilors on the spot, and find out who is lying and who comes out and makes a stand on it.

Trudy ....

As I said, the raising and improvements of River Rd. has been on the City’s agenda for some time.

Drainage of a road surface, whether for 3 months, 3 years or 30 years is an important issue as all those who drove the raised, substandard road after a rainy day know. Again, having drain rock shown to go up to the level of the current filled road surface does not speak to how long it will remain there. Construction of temporary services is not exactly a new concept.

The City said early in the new year, when they had the Tuesday public meetings at the Civic Centre, that they will keep the road in place until the high water study is done and projected that that would be into the year 2009.

Still nothing new to me there. Then the whole situation got screwed up by the City and the MoE when there were two different versions of when the thing was going to come down. Not that even that meant that it was not going to be replaced by a higher road surface.

If you care to explore what was planned before the ice jam look here:

Council Agenda for July 9, 2007 (about an 8Mbyte file) ... the summer before the ice jam

Speaks about widening the road for better traffic accommodation, access, storm drainage, water supply, street lighting, curbs and resurfacing at the west end. The east end costs would be covered by the CN since they need better access for their new cargo terminal and that the road would have to be raised to accommodate the high water level (at that time). That high water level is now being looked at as a result of the ice jam.

Page 222 - $300,000 for River Road storm sewer
Page 224 - $128,000 for River Road watermain extension
Page 273+274 – speaks of substandard and deteriorating conditions of River Rd. and putting $4.2 million towards the cost of the City`s expenditures for that.
http://www.city.pg.bc.ca/cityhall/agendas/2007/2007_07_09.pdf

Then, if you go to the request for proposal for engineering design of the Cameron Street Bridge dated April 2007 (before the ice jam)
http://www.city.pg.bc.ca/city_services/supply/2007_documents/P07-12.pdf

you will find the following words on page 23:
7.5.1.3 – Provide sufficient detail on the proposed River Road profile to support the current design-construction of the City`s road upgrading project currently in progress.

So, River Road and its condition has been on the radar screen for some time. The fact that parts of it were below the 200 year flood plain was also known and was going to be dealt with.

Then the ice jam hit.

Since then, the City has not shown, in my estimation, proper diligence in consulting with people concerned who have a business along that road. Whether raising the road was a right decision is difficult to asses. The conditions did not get as bad as they might have. In my opinion, that was due to the work of the Amphibex. Even that is controversial on here and in the community.

Why they are keeping the road up to that level is beyond me. Ice jams are not yearly events, and ice jams that hold back that much water are most certainly not yearly events. If the MoE has said that they are not stopping the City from removing the road levee, what I have not heard anyone say (although I might have missed it) that they told the City that they will not pay for raising the road again should another ice jam occur in 2008/09. So often people tell the truth, but they keep the answer hidden to additional questions which should have been asked but were not asked.

So, will the berm stay in place? For the short term it looks like it will, as was said by the City early in 2008 at a public meeting.

Will the berm be removed in the long term? Yes, because it was not built to last.

Will the berm be replaced with a more permanent structure. Yes, but we will not know how high (could be a matter of one foot even) until a hydrology study is completed.

Will the road improvements go ahead as originally planned? I would think so. Even if the mills that are presently there will be shut down, other uses will be made of the site. I hope not heavy industrial uses. That, to me, will be the real battle ground – developing the area to get access to the river, wherever it is decided the riverbank should be allowed to go.

When the City was having the public meetings regarding the replacement of the Cameron Street bridge (remember when the City was asking for input from the public where to put the bridge) I noticed that River Rd was raised and when I asked I was told that they were not raising it. Could they not even read their own drawing as it was clear that the elevation was higher? So for years they have been planning on raising the elevation of River Rd. This is nothing new. The flood just gave them the opportunity to get the funding (gravel)from the provincial government.

"This is nothing new. The flood just gave them the opportunity to get the funding (gravel)from the provincial government."

Money is the root of all evil.


How many years in a row will funding come from government for a problem that could've been fixed yesterday?

For the river mouth not to have a gravel removal project happening at low water, will be nothing short of total City government incompetence.

If one were to attend an all candidates meeting during our municipal elections you will not be able to pose questions directly to the candidates. Our Chamber of Commerce will see to that in short order. You will write a question which will be placed in a hat. A candidate will stand, a question (random) will be pulled from the hat and that will be how it will work. A few elections ago, one of the questions was, "How do you feel about global warming?". That sure is a relevant question to ask a lowly step on an eight step municipal ladder not including the mayor. What power, eh? Not wanting to offend any voter, the candidate will see which way the wind is blowing on such topic and pander to the majority in hopes of securing the most votes. It's just a big game , folks. Shake my hand and with my other hand I will empty yer pockets.

The candidates meetings give an opportunity for the candidates to state their platforms and that is valuable.
The candidates also place their platforms in the newspaper.
Not all people go to the meetings or read the newspaper. They go more by word of mouth. Oh, so and so is a good guy or that one over there is a real dink.
It is a sad commentary but somewhat true.

I have my broom at the ready. Hoping for a clean sweep of the useless bunch currently at city hall.

I am just reading what Owl has said:

"there are are too many things being hidden from the citizens of this community. That is not good for the well being of the community when those who we elect cannot face the electorate without hidden agendas."

That may be the basic question for the election in November. "Should the Council be accountable to the citizens of Prince George in an open and transparent manner, i.e. no hidden agendas?"

I am afraid that if it goes on for much longer, i.e. hidden interest groups or single individuals guiding the Council, then it may be taken for granted that that is how Council should function.

Never should be in a democracy. Never.

"If one were to attend an all candidates meeting during our municipal elections you will not be able to pose questions directly to the candidates"

BINGO!!!!!

The all candidatres forums are the firtst things that must either go or be taken over by the people rather than those who run them.

Refuse to attend
Refuse to abide by the format
Have demonstrations.
Have mock all candidates forums in the same location just outside...

The forums, the questions in the paper, they are all mindless. You might as well throw darts at a dart board ....

This river road decision killed the Winton Global mill.

I remember when the flooding first started I saw it first spill the banks around mid-night and tried to call the city, but there was no phone number they would answer, so I called 911 and asked them to get a hold of someone in charge for the city, or emergency response. Meanwhile the city had a huge crew doing snow removal on 1st avenue only a few blocks away. It took nearly an hour before a plow truck drove by and realized the situation was serious, but they basically did nothing but watch. At the time the place that was leaking could have been plugged temporarily simply by using the plow trucks to push snow banks up against the river (the leakage was relatively small, but it all went downhill) behind the Winton Global main office to at least buy some time for a better dike in the morning. Nothing was done and the first casualty was the Winton Global main office.

This week is that mills last for the saw mill... and the planner is soon to follow in a few days. 400 families without a major source of income is the result. The city emergency response failed them that night IMO. Then the hidden agenda agents in the city administration twisted the knife in the workers back trying to capitalize on the River Road misfortune to advance their bridge agenda further.

I would not be surprised in the least if the agents at city hall responsible for the raised River Road decisions were the same people that made the call to close down the Nechako bridge to all traffic (rather than load restrictions) just before the last election to see Colin win with a quick pledge to get the bridge replaced asap?

IMO it is someones pet project at all costs. It involved manipulating policy to assist in the election of the mayor. The irony is the people that were most likely to buy the first phase of the ploy (Nechako bridge closure), were the people that lost their jobs as a result of the second ploy (raised road after being abandoned to the flood) to see the project go ahead no matter what the damage to the city economy or its political realities. Similar ironies for Mackenzie re-electing liberals to outsource their logs. Further irony is that the city plans to spend lots to achieve this agenda, but in the process have lost a major corporate tax paying entity that will likely relocate their operations outside of the city if they do ever restart operations... leaving the city with a major economic hole to fill when paying for the agenda that killed the goose that lays the golden eggs....

So that argument with the air quality and the dangerous goods route being a result of a city run by business against the wishes of its citizens... is a suspect argument when probably the most established local owned business in this cities history is treated the way they were for this bridge project. I think the residents, as well as the local business community, has a major problem at city hall that needs to be fixed in November.

This river road decision killed the Winton Global mill.

I remember when the flooding first started I saw it first spill the banks around mid-night and tried to call the city, but there was no phone number they would answer, so I called 911 and asked them to get a hold of someone in charge for the city, or emergency response. Meanwhile the city had a huge crew doing snow removal on 1st avenue only a few blocks away. It took nearly an hour before a plow truck drove by and realized the situation was serious, but they basically did nothing but watch. At the time the place that was leaking could have been plugged temporarily simply by using the plow trucks to push snow banks up against the river (the leakage was relatively small, but it all went downhill) behind the Winton Global main office to at least buy some time for a better dike in the morning. Nothing was done and the first casualty was the Winton Global main office.

This week is that mills last for the saw mill... and the planner is soon to follow in a few days. 400 families without a major source of income is the result. The city emergency response failed them that night IMO. Then the hidden agenda agents in the city administration twisted the knife in the workers back trying to capitalize on the River Road misfortune to advance their bridge agenda further.

I would not be surprised in the least if the agents at city hall responsible for the raised River Road decisions were the same people that made the call to close down the Nechako bridge to all traffic (rather than load restrictions) just before the last election to see Colin win with a quick pledge to get the bridge replaced asap?

IMO it is someones pet project at all costs. It involved manipulating policy to assist in the election of the mayor. The irony is the people that were most likely to buy the first phase of the ploy (Nechako bridge closure), were the people that lost their jobs as a result of the second ploy (raised road after being abandoned to the flood) to see the project go ahead no matter what the damage to the city economy or its political realities. Similar ironies for Mackenzie re-electing liberals to outsource their logs. Further irony is that the city plans to spend lots to achieve this agenda, but in the process have lost a major corporate tax paying entity that will likely relocate their operations outside of the city if they do ever restart operations... leaving the city with a major economic hole to fill when paying for the agenda that killed the goose that lays the golden eggs....

So that argument with the air quality and the dangerous goods route being a result of a city run by business against the wishes of its citizens... is a suspect argument when probably the most established local owned business in this cities history is treated the way they were for this bridge project. I think the residents, as well as the local business community, has a major problem at city hall that needs to be fixed in November.

We always talk about downtown revitalization... but what about their land values after the flood level adjustments... what about insurance for their buildings... who would invest and build in that environment even if the side walks were paved with gold? I've said many times that anyone that invested in the downtown as its currently envisioned by city hall is accepting an unknown risk on their investment and that is why investment doesn't take place there even when city hall tries to enforce a policy of downtown... or don't invest in PG. Its why there will never be below ground parking and thus parking limitations to downtown growth from its current size. So with these limitations you can now throw in a city hall that doesn't talk the straight up when it comes to how they will treat you if you are invested already. No wonder it is a downtown going backwards fast.

opps I meant to divide the post.... Sorry maybe it can be deleted?

We always talk about downtown revitalization... but what about their land values after the flood level adjustments... what about insurance for their buildings... who would invest and build in that environment even if the side walks were paved with gold? I've said many times that anyone that invested in the downtown as its currently envisioned by city hall is accepting an unknown risk on their investment and that is why investment doesn't take place there even when city hall tries to enforce a policy of downtown... or don't invest in PG.

Its why there will never be below ground parking and thus parking limitations to downtown growth from its current size.

So with these limitations you can now throw in a city hall that doesn't talk the straight up when it comes to how they will treat you if you are invested already.

No wonder it is a downtown going backwards fast.

I smelled a rat as soon as the city snubbed its nose at the business' offer of $1,000,000 to make improvements...what city is ignorant enough to not negotiate with that kind of an offer?? Obviously, Prince George. What kind of a mayor doesn't address a business and resident protest? Obviously ours...makes one wonder. If these businesses leave, I can't say I blame them in the least.

The message that is being sent from city hall to those residents and businesses is that they only want the tax dollars and nothing else matters.

Look at this in the long term.Another flood in 200 years? The taxpayers in PG won't have to pay to get a new berm built then. Talk about planning for the future, eh?