Maybe if we grovel enough, the environmentalists will let us erect windmills and solar panels for electricity as long as it doesn't interfere with the soon to be extinct razor back bunny. Why not lay the sleeve on Greenpeace and the Sierra Club? Seriously folks, why do we even need jobs? We got over 50 BILLION in our EI fund. That oughta last until we see enough tourists come to see our dead trees and whales and start a whole new politically correct and a non-carbon footprint economy.

Harbinger, what part of windmills and solar panels don't you understand.

The windmills kill birds and solar panels disfigure the landscape. The only solution is to become a 3rd world country.

The 50 billion in the E.I. fund would be far better utilized by funding the environmental movement,providing B.C. with funding to cover the hugely underestimated cost of the upcoming winter Olympics and the cost of your mayor's China travels to the most polluting country on the face of the earth.

I do however agree with your comment re the, soon to be extinct, razor back bunny, this creature has provided me with target practice,food,and sustenance over the past many years and as such it would be a shame if the species were to disappear.

Insofar as your suggestion that we put the arm on Greenpeace and the Sierra Club I would suggest that we should only agree to match the funding that they receive from Suzuki, Gore and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Do we really need a power line along Highway 37 for 250 million dollars? The mines have always been able to supply their own power, and none of them are beside the highway anyway, they will still have to put in a line to their own property.

There are no native bands or communities along the route to service with power, there's a lodge at Bell 2 crossing, and a highways maintenance camp at Bobquinn. So this would be done entirely to service the mining industry.

Do we really need more than 2 or 3 mines in the area at one time? And will the cost of the power really be cheaper for them?

The government is asking for 200 million in donations from the people to build a new children's hospital, but yet they have 250 million to put into a power transmission line into the bush?

Now what's wrong with this picture?

The reason that the Liberals won't fully finance the electrification of highway 37, is to allow Alcan (Rio Tinto) a foot in the door to sell their electricity to the big mines when they open. At the moment, with all the sawmills and pulp mills in the province down, BC Hydro is awash in electricity. If the Liberals believed in BC Hydro, and in the future of the northern residents of this province , they would be on this opportunity in a flash. Add this sorry misadventure to the likes of BC Rail where corporate interests triumph all. If the NDP could get their act together, this is a golden opportunity to get rid of all northern liberal MP's in the next election.

Now what's wrong with this picture?

There is a great deal wrong with the picture you gave us, 2bits.

1. There are serveral native bands along #37 that are on deisal power.

2. Stewart is on diesel power.

3. There is the commuity of Dease Lake and others.

As I have said before WAC Bennet built dams and power lines all over ower province. He told us years ago that electirc power was much to important to be privatley owned and formed BC Hydro a crown corporation. It has served us well over the decades.

So why do we at this time need private funds to build a power line along Highway #37? Is it like Ben has said "we are not part of the lower mainland"

So lets not go into a lather about profit and communism. This is a great power project so let BC Hydro do it.

Cheers

I dont see anything wrong with trying to get money from other stakeholders such as the ones that Bridge mentioned. Get some money from the bands (which just means money from INAC, which is at least federal money vs provincial money). Try to get some money from Stewart as they are likely to see some significant savings if they can get of diesel. Whats wrong with getting some from the mine? They arent up there doing there civic duty, they are going to make money, so make them pay too.

Another issue is the fact that, with so many less industrial users in the interior, we are going to see waste (if it hasnt started already). There is a power bottleneck between the interior and the lower mainland (and the energy markets beyond). So creating new uses of power in the interior has benefits. I am unsure if we are able to easily sell power to energy hungry Alberta or if there is a bottleneck there as well.

The 50 Billion in teh EI fund is not taxpayer's money. It belongs to those employees and employers who have contributed to it so they they can be protected when they lose employment. The Federal Government has no right to use it for anything other than that. Doing so would be a massive theft from working people and their employers.

Pay out more to laid off forestry workers by all means, that is what EI money was paid into the fund to do. It was not paid in as a substitute for tax money to fund any projects not associated with unemployment, no matter how laudible.

User pay

You want highways?

Hydro?

Telphone lines?

Hospitals?

Education?

You use, you pay. And, in some cases, you don't use, but others do, you get to pay as well ...

Liberals, NDP, Conservatives, Greens, Purples ... whatever you want to call the vsarious governments and their leaders ... teh system is the same .. can't get something for nothing .....

If you do not own a TV and watch TV, you pay for the cost whenever you eat cereal, put on an underam deodorant or wipe your behind with Charmaine or whoever .... a part of that price goes towards paying for TV programming ..... and billboards littering the roadways, and noise pollution on the radio ....

Don't want that ... buy satellite and pay .. buy a cd .. and pay .... go to a movie theatre and pay AND get to see commercials and pay through the nose for "stuff" you might want to drink and eat.

Want to do something? Does it make sense to do it? Then figure out how to do it and get it done ... leave idiologies at home, otherwise nothing will ever get done as that other Gordon used to say. I will just be bicker, bicker, bicker.

IT .. will just be bicker, bicker, bicker ... :-)

Stewart is not on diesel, hasen't been for ten years or so. There is a power line running to Stewart from Terrace but does not have the capacity to supply the mines.

"User pay"

BC Hydro was never created for user pay. It was an infrostructure investment to promote industry . Which it has done over the years. It hasnt been a luxury like a TV or phone. How can one make such a comparison?

When you give $100.00 to every citizen in the province whats $150,000,000.00 for a power line. herbster makes a good point , how does Alcan fit in this picture? And there is already a built in user pay . How many millions will be paid out by any industry that connects to this power line.

There are some that like to biker and those that like to make it political foot ball but I think most of us have our own ideas that we like to present. And I dont mean spending hours on the internet and then using someones elses knowledge.

Cheers

I have no problem with tax dollars paying for this project.
Northern BC has contributed a lot of money into provincial revenues, without a huge amount of government investment in return.
This power-line would lead to thousands of direct and in-direct jobs in the North-West, and open up the area to development.
When the Government is willing to spend 200 million on a new roof for BC Place, It's quite sad that people need to beg for this kind of "investment".

keviebc: "When the Government is willing to spend 200 million on a new roof for BC Place, It's quite sad that people need to beg for this kind of "investment"."

Vancouver Sun March 2008: "David Podmore, the chairman of PavCo, which owns BC Place, confirmed Wednesday the Crown corporation plans to replace the roof in the next 700 days, in time for the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.

Podmore would not say how much the new roof would cost, but pledged it will be recovered through the development of condominium towers on property Pavco owns at the corners of the stadium."

That is how they are planning to pay for it.

"The Federal Government has no right to use it (the 50 billion EI fund) for anything other than that."

Right on. Yet, going by what the federal government did in the past with contributions made to the Canada Pension Fund I would not be surprised if most of the EI money disappeared already in General Revenue and only a ledger entry with a number exists for the 50 billion.

I can't imagine that the 50 billion are invested somewhere safely and growing through compound interest profit.

For many years the Feds used the Canada Pension Fund for purposes such as low (very low) interest loans to the provinces and may never have gotten all the principal owed back again - it's called forgiving loans.

When more and more people actually started to retire and draw pensions this became a big problem because instead of having massive funds the Pension Fund had become a scheme of money in = money out and there wasn't any real large reserve. Lately this has been improved somewhat.

They may have done the same with the EI funds and spent it already except for a small cushion.

Under the Freedom of Information provisions one may get a clearer picture of this, perhaps.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had indeed given in to the temptation to use it for whatever.

That condo money for the stadium could also be used for the power line instead of a fancy high priced retractable roof.

I'm with you diplomat...I think we might be suprised as to how much of the EI fund is actually still there and accessable! Also, I don't doubt the feds would lie about it either,Liberals OR Conservatives!
Seamutt also has a good point, and how the Campbell crew can justify that sliding roof as opposed to funding a project like electrifying Highway 37 is truly a mind blower!
Oh by the way....hope everyone remembered to fill their gas tank today!
Whole new ball game tomorrow!

Paul Martin used the EI surplus to transfer to general revenue to the tune of $45 billion during his years as finance minister. That money is now gone and was stolen to buy elections with balanced budgets.

I find it interesting that not a single northern MLA has made significant noise supporting almost any northern issue much less this electrification infrastructure.

I blame the lack of representation somewhat on the MLA's themselves, but the bigger problem is the party system itself. A party system that makes all the rules and whom the MLA's serve if they wish to have any political future. The MLA's don't answer to the people they represent, but rather the political party they serve as is exampled by the silence of northern MLA's on this specific issue. The parties themselves are in turn governed by the largest mass of population that is centric to the Vancouver-Victoria political agenda and their edicts are disseminated to the MLA's that represent the regions on behalf of the party.

IMO the BCSTV voting system will separate the political accountability for the MLA from the party back to the people they are supposed to represent. With BCSTV the MLA's would have to make their opinions public in order to win elections, rather than just following the party line and winning a lesser of two evils election run by the party system.

I have watched this site for some years now and note Eagleone's comment re no comment from a " single northern MLA ".

Although somewhat off topic, I have noted a complete lack of comment from your local MP Dick Harris on any federal matter whatsoever.

This guy must be resting on his laurels, whatever they are, and waiting for his present term to expire so he will qualify for his completely undeserved and unearned pension.

I was living in Prince George and was actively involved in helping Dick get the Reform Party in Prince George, off the ground. He assured all of us that he had absolutely no interest in running for political office but once the party and it's successor was in place,was first inline as a candidate. The rest is history.

Prince George seems to have a habit of electing (except for Jay) politicians (see Harris and your present city council and mayor) political reps who have absolutely no concern for their community or electoral area other than their outrageous pensions.

Eagleone: "The MLA's don't answer to the people they represent, but rather the political party they serve as is exampled by the silence of northern MLA's on this specific issue."

I'll probably get raked over the coals for saying the obvious but that was a commonly heard complaint during the decade of the nineties too!

Nobody, but absolutely nobody, dared to step forward and say anything that was not in line with the party line.

It's nothing new. BTW, I just can't fathom how the BCST system would persuade the average voter to make the effort and take the time to examine the bio and promises of each and every candidate who is running. And after they are elected who is going to hold them to the solemn promises they made?

Most people dismiss recall as mob rule. So, how is anything going to change?

Eagleone states:
"The parties themselves are in turn governed by the largest mass of population that is centric to the Vancouver-Victoria political agenda and their edicts are disseminated to the MLA's that represent the regions on behalf of the party."

Oh,if it were only true that the parties are governed by the largest mass of population that is centric to the Vancouver-Victoria political agenda. If you delve far enough you could find the agenda extends far beyond those borders.

Eagleone:"Paul Martin used the EI surplus to transfer to general revenue to the tune of $45 billion during his years as finance minister. That money is now gone and was stolen to buy elections with balanced budgets."

Ammonra says:"Pay out more to laid off forestry workers by all means, that is what EI money was paid into the fund to do..." and I agree wholeheartedly, but if the well is dry how are they going to fill the bucket?

I guess the temptation to rob the fund was just too powerful to resist.

Scoundrels...

Sorry Bridge, but Dease Lake is over 150 kilometers past the end of the proposed power line. Stewart has had a power line for almost 20 years, and it isn't on highway 37 anyway. There are no native communities along hwy. 37 where the proposed power line will be built. Iskut is the first native community, and it's well over 50K from Bobquinn Lake.
The proposal is to take the line through the Nass Valley, but they already have a power line.
So what communities are you talking about which will be served by this?

Diplomat with the BCSTV system you only have to know which candidates you support (usually for a specific reason) and not everything (negative) about every candidate.

In PG if we have a 3-MLA riding you might have at max a dozen serious candidates (party related or strong independents) on the ballot. Of that you might only be ranking your top five choices... so right away you write off the knee jerk extremists from all parties including your own (each party would have three candidates). So once eliminating the nut cases (pro-or-anti abortion, commies, right wing nuts, in-it-for-me) candidates then its simply a matter of looking at the positive position candidates remaining and ranking them based on the issues that are most important to you.

Some voters may chose not to support the candidate put forward by the party that supports the party position... and yet vote for the party candidate that does not support the party position? ... The party will have no control over who actually gets elected, and thus the party will have very little (other than moral) control over the positions elected MLA's take when they are accountable to a voting system that does not assure them a seat by the party loyalty... but rather by their loyalty to the positions they took to get elected.

Guys like Dick Harris would be gone a long time ago because conservatives would not be forced to vote for such a useless bum... when the alternative choice is federal ndp and liberal hacks that are not much better, but with worse leadership. Lesser of a few evils.

Under BCSTV, the voter on its ballot could choose to vote conservative without voting for Dick Harris rewarding instead an up and coming conservative and a veteran that performs to a higher standard. Rank them number one and two and then maybe rank a strong independent or possibly a ndp or liberal that is the odd man out in their party and supports some of the things you support bringing that party more to the center as you see it.

In the end maybe your one and two are elected, as well as a good guy from the other side that will keep them in line... and sitting on the pines looking in would be the likes of Dick Harris and the other lazy bums that couldn't think for themselves.

Time Will Tell IMO

Also BCSTV doesn't fix the north-south problem of representation in the legislature in whole, but what it does do is it would finally give us representation that is accountable to the local constituents electorally in a way that we can elect a more robust consensus voice that will speak out on our behalf. The MLA would have the ability to be rewarded for their voice (through the transferable ballot as a second or third choice candidate consensus possibly) with out having to prostrate to a party pointy head.

Once we have MLA's that can represent us freely we are one step closer to true representation IMO and it is that much harder for our voice to be ignored in the future depending on the other divisions that develop(?) down south.

"This power-line would lead to thousands of direct and in-direct jobs in the North-West, and open up the area to development."

Just because there is power does not mean that there will be development.

There is power along the road between Prince Rupert and Prince George. Plenty of wonderful scenery; a good looking community in Smithers that makes it look like parts of Switzerland from there towards Terrace; a seasport in Kitimat and Prince Rupert; tourism potential up the ying yang.

Yet, after some 60 years of one of the largest single industrial developments in BC, which includes hydro electric generation that is excess, the population west of Prince George does not even total the population of Prince George.

Its sort of like thinking that downtown revitalization in PG will happen just because someone changes the traffic pattern, puts in some brick pavement, some colourful banners, tears down antiquated canopies, etc. etc.

If you want to get serious about development of tht corridor, how about re-development of the existing corridor? It is like downtown PG, lots of infrastructure without much utilization.

So, in my view one needs to look at some serious decentralization policy of the government. That brings out a very old approach that has not been talked about much in recent decades. Without that, a hydro electric project is simply a shot in the dark, electricity to virtually nowhere.

Of courese we have not talked about the corridor between PG and Edmonton. That stretch of highway is almost as forelorn as the Hazelton Watson Lake stretch.

This province is vast, with more remote and wilderness section than we need by a longshot. Most people are not interested in that other than in pictures and the knowledge that it is available for them whenever the mood strikes. And, of course, bragging rights on the Canadian and world scene of how wonderful, diverse, large BC is.

Which includes the southern mainland and southern island, where most want to be, because it is where everyone else is. It is where the action is. It is where people can be with people and socialize and enjoy themselves to no end from outdoor experiences which one finds around few such urban areas to the most diverse urban experiences of the highest level of social interaction that people have created for themselves over the last several decades.

By contrast, much of this part of the world is seen to be the place for hermit-like people. It is only through virtual space that most participate in something beyond their parochial world, a world which leads them to think that the universe revolves around them.

Another view ....

http://www.dogwoodinitiative.org/bulletins/newtransmissionline

Some more .... according to this, 600+ households not on electric grid .... $22 million to give them hydro electricity rather than $400+ million

http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/04/26/Hwy37

Then we have this letter from the USA ... power to/from Alaska ...

http://www.thomasbayhydro.com/Documents/Milestones/Cascade%20Creek/PR-5.pdf

with a build, lease, maintain, own proposal ....

I find that there are a lot of gullible people in this part of the world. I suppose it comes with the territory of people who are so used to living off the teat of natural resource extraction.

Here we have a bunch of people complaining about losing jobs in Mackenzie to the extent that the town is on the verge of collapse; Tumbler Ridge having been there and then gotten a reprieve for God only knows how long; Ft. St. James continually living on the edge; Burns Lake going nowhere fast; Prince George suffering somewhat but some diversification will allow it to hang on. Then blaming the corporations for pulling out and not supporting the communities and getting upset at the government for allowing it to continue without doing a thing about it.

Then we have the mining industry holding out the carrot with 10,000 jobs (yeah right!!!!) but the projects are so financially sensitive that only an electric umbilical cord to hydro will make the projects viable, forgetting about the Canuck $, the ups and down of the market, trade agreements and all those other things we see with respect to the forest industry. A private company comes in and offer to build a line with a 20 year government guaranteed lease agreement after which the infrastructure will be turned over to BCHydro. That is the extent of the risk they are willing to take – NONE.

So, we build the line, 5,000 people will move in (the rest of the trickle-down jobs are actually in other communities including Terrace, Smithers, Stewart, Prince George, Vancouver, Edmonton, etc. A couple of decades or sooner down the road, we have headlines again – mine closures, price of gold down to $600/ounce, copper in the dumps, worker turnover problems, drug problems, job safety problems, communities shutting down, company houses boarded up, people out of work ….. the government isn’t doing a thing … Green, Red, Blue .. whoever the government is, blames whoever put in the line in the first place without consideration to displaced working families.

We are nomads … we rape and pillage for the benefit of those hooked on consumerism. We rape and pillage because those who do are hooked on consumerism. No one really gives a chit about trying to live sustainably …. And some smart ass government actually think that they can start turning things around by adding a carbon tax. With the people up here thinking the way they do, good luck!

Wow! Is that really you opining, Owl? I sense some real pent up frustration surfacing...especially in the last paragraph.

There are still more positives than negatives all around us, I believe.

One of the positive aspects of the insanely high fuel prices and added carbon taxes is that the excessive consumerism mentality is going to take some real body blows.

A Happy Canada Day to all! Cheers!

a new plan to send electricity along Highway 37 north.

So 2bits what are you talking about. There is no mention of building the powerline up the Nass. The Nass only runs along #37 for a few km. Highway #37 starts at Kitawanga on #16 and ends at the Yukon border.

So Stewart already has powerand only 62 km from #37 on #37A. So tell me are they going to spend 400 million on a few kms of powerline up the Nass?

Like I have said before electricity will promote industrial development which was the plan for BC Hydro many years ago.

Cheers

Sorry, diplomat ... the smart ass government part is a cynical remark playing on the way others look at that tax.

As I have said before, it is pretty well the only way to make a change to wean us off the dependency of oil. The topic was on CNN last night with the CEO of Chevron beingtaken to task with the price of gasoline going ever higher in the USA .. $4.99/USgal in LA yesterday about 50 cetns higher than in many other parts of the USA because of their state taxes.

Just skimming over the Newfoundland and Labrador Energy Plan.

http://www.nr.gov.nl.ca/energyplan/EnergyReport.pdf

One of the comments that caught my eye was:

"Too often in our history this wealth was managed and controlled for the benefit of outside interests rather than for the people who live and work here. This Energy Plan will ensure that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians become the principal beneficiaries of our great energy resources, which we refer to as out Energy Warehouse."

I do not know whether it will work for them. I have the sense that whatever BC does not really have such a transparent plan, whether from the party currently in power or ones previous to this one.

Do the government bureaucrats who transcend governments of different stripes have that as a driving mission, sitting there in front of them whenever they make deals to do any resource extraction whether for energy, such as sending coal off shore, or liquified gas offshore, or routing electicity to the country south of us, or for other resources which have added value when taken up to a secondary and even a primary manufacturing level?

My frustration is with the thinking of many of those who post here and some of the politicians at the local level who are so eager to do whatever it takes to create another job.

From my point of view, we have recently had ample examples of why we need MORE than jobs. We need a system which can sustain jobs, recognizing that they will not be the same over a person's lifetime.

The mantra has to go beyond "we need jobs". There are too many on here who stop at that and do not display the capacity to move beyond that.

The mantra must switch to the higher level of "we need sustainable communities" at the local, regional, provincial, national and international levels. That mantra includes stability to people's lives, which may or may not be through jobs as a couple of posters who "get it" have stated.

Those who understand that in government, in administration, in economic development offices and in the public at large, I will listen to and support if their actions indicate that they understand that.

Bridge, I really don't know what you're trying to say.
The proposed poer transmision line is to go through Nisga lands in the Nass Valley, north of Terrace, and not from Kitwanga. The Nisga have power already from a line on that route, but it is insufficient for the mines, so the new one will not affect them at all except for the fact that there will have to be an agreement to cross their land.
As far a Stewart goes, yes, its over 60K from the highway,but it too has power already, so the proposed line will not affect it either.
And by the way, Highway 37 starts at Kitimat, not Kitwanga.
The power line to Bobquinn does not guarantee mining development. Nova Gold shut down, even with the proposed power line. And by the time any mine is in production, the cost of power could be unrealistic.