It’s interesting that mining gets a positive spin in the media, while oil and gas does not.

Just from the natural gas industry alone…

“In the broader provincial context, natural gas revenues are rapidly becoming the B.C. government’s most important source of natural resource revenue. In 2012-2013, the government’s fiscal plan shows natural gas royalties will reach $597 million, compared with $534 million in revenues from forestry. Natural gas land sales are a significant additional revenue source, contributing $844 million to the province in 2010. “

http://www.capp.ca/aboutUs/mediaCentre/CAPPCommentary/Pages/BC%20Benefits.aspx#TS2ClDRzF84J

Not all mining does. What about Taseko? Mining is, for the most part, localized to one area, whereas oil and gas have a very real potential of contaminating areas from many different sources. Most mining is doing what people have been asking the oil and gas business to do for year, and that is, keep the jobs here and refine here. Mining explores, extracts, refines and in most cases employs people to create a finished product. Oil and Gas pretty much, explore, extract and ship out of the country.

From the article: “As of 2010, B.C.’s natural gas industry directly employed 12,000 people. Over the next two decades, a period the International Energy Agency has called a “golden age” for natural gas, direct employment in B.C.’s natural gas sector is expected to grow significantly and reach 40,000 people by 2035, says the Canadian Energy Research Institute.”

Much of what is produced in mining (minerals, gold, etc.) goes to China and other places to produce those cheap electronics that people seem to love.

My point is, no industry is perfect… but it’s interesting to see the spin.

That’s great news but how come the taxpayer don’t see the benefits? Just rising taxes and user fees. I know, all the breaks are going to the cooporate sector.

Exactly, our debt keeps rising, and the minerals and oil keep going out of country.

When will our governments wake up to the fact that we need more than a few thousand jobs out of these industries. We need to be paid for every barrel of oil, every ounce of gold, every pound of copper etc. This could be tied to the world price of the commodity. For instance, $60 a bbl. gives the companies a decent profit, anything over and above that could be split half and half with the people who own the resource through the governments. Same with minerals.

The way it works now, most of the tax revenue comes from the workers employed in the industries. And that obviously isn’t enough to support the government coffers.

Any idea why a small country like Norway has enough money left over to buy into the tarsands?

Norway has huge proven Oil Reserves approx 7 Billion barrels. They are an exporer of oil, so this would be a huge generator of funds for that Country.

Pretty well everything that is produced in BC is sent out of the Country for further processing. ie; Coal, Copper Concentrates, Molydenum, Gold, etc; Not much processing done in BC. 99% of the ingots produced in Kitimt are shipped to other Countries for processing.

We used to have refineries at Taylor BC and Kamloops a number of years ago, however we dimantled them and sent them to China, or Vietnam. So we are acutally reducing our ability to refine oil.

Well, my2bits, if Norway is exporting oil to eastern Canada and being paid for it in Canadian dollars, what else could Norway do with those dollars? They are only ‘effective demand’ for CANADIAN goods, services, and SECURITIES. Not Norwegian ones. Ergo Norway’s investment in the oil sands.

I think the government already exacts a great amount of money from Companies operating in our resource industries. More than what most people ever realise. The problem we have is that OUR collectively-owned-through-the Crown real wealth ~ the oil and gas, coal, minerals, timber, etc., as they are increasingly developed ~ do NOT result in LOWER prices paid for the products of these resources as they are consumed by CANADIAN consumers. We are physically rich, and getting ever the more so still, but are currently continually being penalised for this by being made financially poor in terms of what OUR money will buy.

We really can’t correct this by additional taxation on producers. It requires a means of properly continually relating the totality Production, Consumption, and Money in Canada itself.

I do not think we have a good cost accounting system in place for any of our natural resources.

Here is the quote from Johnny Belt’s post:
“In 2012-2013, the government’s fiscal plan shows natural gas royalties will reach $597 million, compared with $534 million in revenues from forestry”

So that is two things only, it is a plan not an actual for last year for instance, and it is a net income, not a gross income.

I would like to see a true cost accounting of a program called, for instance: “forest timber sales” and “natural gas sales” that account for all expenditures towards supporting those programs whether it is quality control, road maintenance from industrial use, etc.

We cannot look at just the gross income though royalties, licenses, stumpage, etc. We must also look at jobs (in the case of forestry tht would be the woodland operations, tranportation, and manufacturing in the primary, secondary and tertiary service areas).

I do not have the faintest clue what the evaluation would then be.

BTW, in the case of aluminum, we do not mine the ore here. We import it, so we are already one level up the value added food chain.

sorry, that should read it is a gross income, not a net income … mea culpa.

For the Aluminum. We import the bauxite to make the Alum, and with the cheap power from Kemano (1) we make aluminum ingots, which we export overseas, to the USA, and Eastern Canada (Que) where it is further processed into finished products. Very small amount of ingots processed in Vancouver. My point?? No processing of this commodity in BC, therefore no jobs.

Okay, so you consistently underestimate the industrial economic impact but rerely, if ever, present any real data to support that.

I, on the other hand, look at what you present, and will either agree (rarely, primarily because you typically do not back your info up) or disagree. In the latter case I will comment and present some justification for the comment. It is the way I am simply used to doing things in a diligent, business-like fashion. Some obviously do not like that, and they are allowed to feel that way.

So, since I do not know of a location where I can get quick info on manufacturing centres in BC and the impact they have on the province, I have to make do. If you or anyone lese has a provincial breakdown, hey, that would really assist.

From the Kitimat city site
http://www.kitimat.ca/EN/main/residents/facts-statistics/economy.html

“Kitimat employers lead the northwest region in global manufacturing output, exports and energy-related activity. Perhaps the best kept secret is our productivity: over the last decade more than $15 billion in value-added manufacturing products has been sent to world markets by Kitimat-based companies. Local industry is responsible for up to 11% of Provincial Manufacturing GDP over that period”

So, BS or not? I do not know and I am not going to follow it through. If you know, or want to follow it through, be my guest.

Remember, here is the statement in simpler terms:
“Kitimat industry is responsible for up to 11% of Provincial Manufacturing GDP over the previous decade – that inludes industries other than aluminum and includes industries which have left.”

Here is a plant in Vancouver which manufactures aluminum doors and windows and installs them in major projects all down the west coast of Canada and the USA.
http://architectural.starlinewindows.com/about

They do not extrude their own sections from the looks of it, so they might get it from this plant in Langley
http://www.apexextrusions.ca

BTW, as far as extrusions go, most of the plants are in the Toronto area, not Quebec. I believe the same goes for the casting plants which primarily serve the auto industry.