Does she really think that 130 net zero contracts signed were signed willingly?

Taxes are going up anyways Christy the 2 billion could be found by spending the tax payers money responsibly.

I wonder what would happen to the quality of education if all those retired teachers stopped volunteering.

“Retired teachers give over $110 million a year in volunteer services
This is a special time of year for giving, but BC’s retired teachers give of themselves to a remarkable degree all year round.”

“A comprehensive survey of more than 1,000 retired teachers across BC reveals a deep commitment to volunteerism which creates an economic benefit equivalent to $110 million, if the retirees’ time is calculated at a minimum wage of just $10 per hour.”

Ummm….NoWay, what is it you are lobbying for ? A bonus for retired teacher’s ?

It is just to show that you can make numbers say what ever you want dpending on which side of the fence you sit on.

“It is just to show that you can make numbers say what ever you want dpending on which side of the fence you sit on.”

$2 billion is $2 billion no matter which side of the fence you are on. Maybe the teachers could say we are ONLY asking for 200 billion PENNIES- yeah that’s the ticket.

NoWay, My wife volunteers full time because she wants to, not for some recognion. Bravo for those 1000 teachers , but it is no greater percentage than the regular population. Check statscan and you will see that most teachers are already in the top 20% of wage earners. Occupy movement will be coming after them soon!

The first point is very interesting…..

700 fewer Special Needs teachers
2,100 additional special needs teaching assistants in B.C. classrooms.

As someone who also works in union environment very similar to this I can totally see what happened. Back in the day, Special Needs Teachers probably took extra courses or had specialized training so they got paid a premium. But when special needs students were not all pooled into one classroom but rather mixed with the regular students this eliminated the need to have “special needs teachers”. Those teachers that were affected probably went back to being paid as regular teachers and that probably created some really annoyed teachers. The teaching assistants are probably paid much less than a teacher.

But I can see the Govt’s case for making the change. They realize that special needs children make up only a percentage of the entire population, why not hire teaching assistants to just help those students and save some money in the process because they don’t have teaching qualifications but skills tailored to helping the special needs kids.

Is it better or worse…they did hire 3 times as many teaching assistants, but they might only be part time. It’s probably just as good but cheaper. Not something the BCTF will ever agree to because it’s a loss of jobs for their members.

I guess if the BCTF wasn’t an arm of the NDP they’re claims might have a bit more validity. The NDP gets in and the BCTF will be rewarded for this fiasco. They never intended to settle thats why their demands were so ludicrous, in 50 yrs of the BCTF representing teachers they have managed one negotiated contract (1), pretty dismal. NDP uses teachers, teachers use kids, sad

Currently the average teacher in BC makes $70K see the website not by BCTF or the province that shows this:

http://resource.educationcanada.com/salaries.html

Doesn’t sound like the BCTF is trying to do it’s usual spin and say they haven’t gotten anything and the Govt is being unreasonable……please.

If it’s so much better everywhere else in the country, the teachers could really show the government by moving to where it’s better.

btw to BCRacer, education and health make up more than 75% of the provincial budget. How much more should it be?

“if the government spent as much on education and health as they have been on newspaper and tv ads there would be lots of money top go around.”

Ludicrous statement. Advertising would amount to about 0.001% of healthcare and education spending.

How can a 15% wage increase be an added cost of 2 billion when the entire education budget is 4.7 billion?

Lies Lies Lies.

Not much knowledge here on the issues. Why don’t those criticizing with no idea what they are criticizing go talk to a teacher and learn some facts. Or is it an ingrained belief in what ever the fiberals pontificate. Now if the teachers job is so sweet then how come you are not all teachers?

-41,000 teachers at an average of $70,000 per teacher.
-The total bill is 2.87 billion dollars.
-How does a 15% raise equal a 2 billion dollar increase?

Why do so many of you believe the government lies without checking things out for yourself?

Remember the HST that wasn’t on the radar during the election campaign, but mysteriously showed up 3 days after they were elected?

Lies Lies Lies

Baaaaaa, baaaaaa, the government said it so it must be the truth, baaaaaa.

seamutt: “Not much knowledge here on the issues. Why don’t those criticizing with no idea what they are criticizing go talk to a teacher and learn some facts.”

Yeah, because I’m sure you’ll get a balanced viewpoint from them. Can you feel the sarcasm?

I can’t remember the last time I got a 15% wage increase. Anyone else?

I haven’t looked at the details, Smooth, but the $2 billion is over the term of the contract including benefits and pensions.

The 15% is forecast to cost $413 million per year. Over five years that more than $2 billion.

These statements, “lies lies lies” are emotional and not factual.

I don’t think the government is lying. It will cost more than $2 billion to give the 15% wage increase that the BCTF is demanding.

JohnnyBelt,
The 15% is for 3% per year (COLA – same as the MLA’s are getting) plus a 3% market adjustment in each of the second and third year. One reason for the market adjustment is that in previous contracts teachers took LESS money to get classroom size and composition. Teachers got that for a few years, and then the government toar up the contract and stripped those clauses away. If teachers had taken money instead of working conditions the pay would be much greater than it is today. During the years teachers were accepting LESS money to get smaller classes, teachers in Alberta/Ontario/Saskatchewan were getting raises. That is why they are so far ahead. Teachers are asking for the market adjustment to correct the wrongs that happened over prior contracts.

Icicle,
I don’t believe that the contract is outlined for 5 years. As I read it, the benefits are also being explained separate from the wages. I am also pretty sure that at this time most all of the original benefit increased asked for have been pulled back.
That said, when the government says it will cost 2 billion, I think the average person is thinking that as yearly. Perhaps it was only me.

Icicle,

Even as you explained. It still doesn’t add up.
3% on year one is only 86 million.

Even as the other increases come in line, and you add in compounding. You get nowhere near 2 billion. Not to mention it is only a 3 year term being proposed.

Smooth,
Here’s the breakdown. Can we agree that the teachers feel they are demanding $1.3 billion and the government feels it’s actually $2 billion?

http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/documents/Media/00-Backgrounder-Costing%20of%20BCTF%20Revised%20Package%20January%202012.pdf

Even we it was $1.3 billion they were demanding, it’s still a ridiculous amount. It’s not so much the 3% per year raise they want, they want more prep time, more benefits and more time off, but that will mean that more teachers need to be hired because we still need to provide the same instruction time to the students. More than half of what the teachers are demanding is more paid time outside the classroom.

Must be nice!

Did you know:

1) that the teachers are demanding up to 12 days of paid leave when a friend or relative dies? They only get 5 days right now.

2) that middle school and high school teachers want want 7 hours of paid prep time per week? They only get 5 hours right now.

3) that teachers are demanding 2 paid sick days per month? They only get 1.5 per month right now.

4) that teachers are demanding 8 paid discretionary days per year? They only get 5 right now.

5) that the teachers are demanding 26 weeks of paid leave to care for a dying friend or relative. Right now they get 5 days.

6) that the teachers are demanding unlimited paid time off to deal with any union business or workshop? Right now only 6 employees per district get this benefit. Why go on strike? Just have all the teachers on mass attend a union workshop.

This isn’t about the teachers being better able to do their jobs. It’s about getting paid to not work.

Icicle that sounds right about the figure being more like $1.3 Billion. So the Govt is estimating on the high side. I still say it’s a pile of money and it’s hard to see why BC teachers figure they are so hard done by.

Based on Stats Canada, a teacher making $70K puts them into the top 25% of incomes in the Province.

See for yourself.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil105k-eng.htm

So do teachers deserve a zero percent increase, probably not. But maybe 1-2% per year to keep up with the cost of living makes sense. The 15% over 3 years that the BCTF wants, that’s crazy!!

) International Education

At the University of Northern BC, international students make up just over 9 per cent of total enrollment. Last year, UNBC had 396 international students from 43 different countries, including China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, India, the U.S. and Scandinavia. This is three times more than a decade ago.

The College of New Caledonia had 286 international students, with 132 of them coming from China. International students also join CNC from Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, India and Korea.

School District #57 currently hosts 90 international students. With a strong program that has been in place for a number of years, the School District has hosted students from diverse international countries. In 2011-2012, 50 students from Columbia will be attending schools throughout the district.

good luck if schools are still having work walk outs… just saying

Government Wages PR Battle In Teachers Dispute

Idiots

Icicle,

Your list of benefits teachers are asking for is out of date. Those were the opening point for the negotiations. Each side went with the strategy of asking for the moon and coming towards each other on each successive renegotiation. The teachers have come down twice from their original asking point. The BCPSEA (puppet government organization) has come up 0 times.

I cannot find the current asking points surrounding benefits as I am getting ready to go out. However, the last set I read did not include a single one of the 6 points you listed above.

Please argue on “current” facts. You sound like the government. When they claim BC teachers are paid 4th in Canada, they are doing it with out of date contracts. The BCPSEA has even admitted to that at the bargaining table. The government of course has not made that public.

No point in trying to explain anything to Johnny, I’m thinking he’s had a Liberal lobotomy.

Smooth,
Most of that garbage is still in their list of demands as of January 17th, 2012.

Can we agree that this is their current list of demands?

http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/documents/Publications-TeacherCollectiveManualDocs/BCTF%20press%20release%20-%20New%20proposals%20January%2016,%202012.pdf

Seriously, if the teachers got everything they are demanding, it would be possible for a teacher to go their entire career without setting foot in a classroom and get paid all the way through.

It’s unbelievable. I realize that the teachers have to start asking for a bit more than they expect to get, but who in their right might could agree to what’s being demanded right now?

I think the teachers are determined to get a fight and to try to make the government look as bad as possible. It is the same propaganda they were putting out in the last Provincial election.

The teachers don’t want to work with the government, they want to control the government.

What icicle said!!!!

baaa! baaa! baaa! no HST. baaa! baaa! Baaa! We will not sell the BCR! baaa! baaa! baaa! No cost overruns! baaa! baaa! baaa! No child poverty! baaa! baaa! baaa! We will not use children as political pawns! baaa! baaa! baaa!

Did you read that document Icicle?

“1) that the teachers are demanding up to 12 days of paid leave when a friend or relative dies? They only get 5 days right now.”

See article G Bereavement leave.

Has been scratched out. As a matter of fact 7 has been scratched out. I’m not sure where this 12 days comes from.

“3) that teachers are demanding 2 paid sick days per month? They only get 1.5 per month right now.”

See article G Sick leave.

2 has been scratched out and so has no max been scratched out.

“4) that teachers are demanding 8 paid discretionary days per year? They only get 5 right now.”

See Article G Discretionary Leave.
8 days, really?

6 is crossed out and replaced with a 1. No mention of 8 anywhere.

“5) that the teachers are demanding 26 weeks of paid leave to care for a dying friend or relative. Right now they get 5 days.”

Article G.2
Go read that again Icicle, they go on EI for compassionate leave. The must pay if they are eligible for EI has been crossed out.

“6) that the teachers are demanding unlimited paid time off to deal with any union business or workshop? Right now only 6 employees per district get this benefit. Why go on strike? Just have all the teachers on mass attend a union workshop.”

The Union Pays their wage Icicle.

“For a long-term leave, the board shall continue to pay the employee’s salary
and to provide all benefits as specified in the agreement. The local or BCTF
shall reimburse the board for 100 per cent of such salary, benefits and
statutory benefit costs upon receipt of a monthly statement.”

So of the six demands you previously posted Icicle only one is still in the demands.

Since 2001 I got a 54% wage increase JohnnyBelt….I work in the private sector. We are not union but, in 2005 we walked out and 12 days later our employer came back with some money.

I understand, NoWay. You’re embarrassed at what the teachers initially demanded. I am too. We all should be.

I can agree that they’ve reduced some of their demands a little bit, but not much.

Icicle, you have obviously never negotiated for anything ever in your life. You always ask for the moon then settle for less. Just like the gov does.

My question to the gov is, how much money are you wasting on all this advertising and web site ? Probably could have given the teachers some of this wasted money to stop your communistic union busting approach to politics.

mwk: When they say “average”, they include administration. Administrators are not in the BC teachers union and should not be included in the averages but they always are. I had this same argument with Ben a few years ago on his radio show. He was wrong, I was right. Without a masters degree, no teacher would make 70K unless they were at the end of their career and have many years experience. If you believe that 70K thing, you are a dunce. Starting wage for first year teacher is around 47K so give your head a shake–they can’t even qualify to get a mortgage. The bottom of the scale is 47K and the top is about 70K. How in hell can the average be 70K. I can get you a pay scale if you’d like one —
There are more retired teachers in PG than there are presently teaching and I can assure you, their pension is nowhere near what it should be for 25 years of dedication to your children and mine.

P val, is that what teachers pay union dues for? Someone to negotiate as if they are selling tee-shirts on a Mexican beach?The BCTF is an idustry that thrives on sh*t disturbing. The voters have moved beyond this crap, the teachers should to.

Dow7500 all union negotiations work this way, do some reading and catch up.

As an average citizen, I have done my part. I have voted and a group of government officials have been elected. Now it is my turn to keep my opinion out of it. Unless you are a member of the government, the union or any other pertinent player, you cannot have an unbiased opinion. You are not a part of it, so keep out of it.

“No point in trying to explain anything to Johnny, I’m thinking he’s had a Liberal lobotomy.”

I find it very funny that people focus on me and not on the other posters like icicle, etc.

Keep drinking the BCTF koolaid folks.

For the record, I support 1-2% increases for the teachers, nothing more. All the extra days and perks they’re asking for are off the table, imo.

Even a 1-2% increase comes at a tremendous cost to the taxpayer. And when taxes go up, people will squawk. You can’t win.

P Val, read my comments. If the purpose of the BCTF is this type of child like bargaining, well, money well spent teachers. Its time the BCTF grew up and read the public. We are tired of their BS demands and their greed.

Rosebud, to paraphrase; All that is needed
to keep bad things happening is for good
people to remain silent. As taxpayers,
voting or not, the government are our
employees, ergo so are the teachers. My biggest complaint with all this is the propagandizing of our kids. Every person posting here firmly believes their view point, some are better researched than others but for the most part they are informed opinions.
Our children however are subjected to
the political rants of a left wing organisation that has little regard for
“the kids”. The BCTF as a body doesn’t give a hoot about your & my kid(s) (nor does the gov’t for that matter). Their sole objective is get as much for their members as they can while further pushing their political agenda. If they can pull at our emotions by using our kids so much the better.
Teachers deserve fair compensation, our children do not deserve to be subjected
to the political posturing & outright brainwashing the BCTF is doing.