Welcome to the BCTF. It’s the usual story every few years. They’re threatening to strike, striking, or asking for more more more. And it doesn’t matter which government is in power.

As opposed to who, JohnnyBelt?

Do you know anybody who asks for less, any person, any group, any country, any corporation, who or what JohnnyBeltasks fgor less?

Not once have I read any concerns towards all this time off affecting grades or meeting provincial requirements.

What am I saying ? Report cards aren’t required anymore and every kid gets a blue ribbon.

In the last article, someone pointed out that each side needs to ask for the moon as part of a negotiation.

I’m not sure I agree with that statement. I think there comes a point that you ask for too much and everyone thinks that negotiations are pointless. Can you imagine offering to buy a house for $1? Who would expect a counter offer?

I think we can all agree that the BCTF has asked for the moon, has finally agreed that that might not be reasonable, so they only want half the moon now. Unfortunately the moon is still firmly fixed in orbit and half a moon is just as impossible.

I don’t see that the government is asking for anything so lofty. What the government is asking for worked for the last contract–at least it’s not in orbit.

The government isn’t being unreasonable. They could be asking that the teachers spend more time in the classroom. They could be asking for bigger classes, they could be asking to cut salaries or funding, the list goes on and yet even that would be more reasonable than what the teachers are now asking. Some will say that that would never work, but those same people will have to admit that it did work in previous contracts…

I think that those same people would have to agree that the group 1 private schools in town operate on a budget less than half what SD57 allocates per student and yet these schools seem to perform very well.

For those that don’t know what a group 1 school is, it a school that teaches the same curriculum as the BCTF, but doesn’t have the BC Teacher’s Federation involved. They’re not unionized and if a light bulb burns out, the teacher can change it without the BCTF threatening to fire them.

Generally, these group 1 schools have greater parental involvement, but the cost to send your child there isn’t out of orbit. To send your entire family to the largest group 1 school in town, costs about $3000 per year after taxes–yes you get a charitable receipt for most of the tuition effectively reducing what you pay by about 40%. That’s significantly less than what daycare would cost–you’d spend more than that per child!

In theory, the government could fully fund these group 1 schools, eliminate the BCTF, significantly reduce costs, and generally improve student performance, but no one is advocating that. If both parties should ask for the moon, then shouldn’t the government ask for this? Only if they wanted a big fight ;-).

The government is trying to work with the BCTF, but not the other way around.

I’m not advocating that we eliminate the BCTF, I’m just saying that it is possible to do a good job for less and there are lots of good examples–most of which don’t have the BCTF involved. Yet the government is not asking to do it for less or even get rid of the BCTF. The government is being reasonable with the BCTF.

There are only so many teaching minutes in the year, the BCTF can’t expect that with every contract, that they will get more and more paid time off and more and paid time outside the classroom. There is a limit–there comes a point when we have to start asking the question–just what are the teachers doing? I think the BCTF realizes this too, but they want a fight. They’ve been wanting a fight since well before the negotiations started.

It’s not a threat JohnnyBelt they are going on strike Monday for three days.

So the schools are going to be open and administration is going to babysit. So send your kid’s to school sounds like free daycare to me!

“Not once have I read any concerns towards all this time off affecting grades or meeting provincial requirements.”

They will just cancel spring break Middle Finger so don’t buy any tickets to Disney Land.

Provincial Instructors contract is up at the end of March again. They just settled a netzero contract that expires then. So I doubt they will settle for netzero again.

Do you know why they want to fight Icicle? Do you realize they are after some of what was illegally stripped away when Campbell ripped up their legal contract in 2002. Did you know that the BCTF won the court case last April that went to the BC Supreme Court?

Read up!
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Rights-Justice/2011/04/13/SupremeCourt/

What the government did was illegal. It’s time to fix it.

NoWay,
We agree. It’s payback. The teachers want a big fight. The bigger the better. They’re going to show everyone who’s in charge.

They won in court Icicle. It’s not payback it’s getting back what they had.

Who was the education minister back then? Hmmmmmm! The party that broke the law is picking the fight.

The BCTF is trying to do this legally. The government isn’t.

“The teachers want a big fight.”

They have no choice but fight. This is history repeating itself.

I think the BC Liberals are treading on thin ice with their hard stance on teachers.

The BCTF has allowed its members to participate in the provincial high school basketball tournaments as some fall during this weeks scheduled strike. As of a Global news story this morning 75% of the organizing commitee for these tournaments is made up of teachers donating their personal time to make these events possible. Also any travel club events that could fall during any job action have also been given support from the BCTF as these events are also made possible by donated teacher time.

So going forward with a government that clearly is not willing to compromise will no doubt have consequences in the years to come of volunteer teacher participation in activities that are not in their imposed contract.

As it stands now the teachers will be legislated back to work and a net zero contract will be imposed on them in August.

We can look forward to schools throughout the province of extra curricular activities crippled with this war on teachers.

Icicle, you have been all over opinion250 the last few days, and have been corrected continually from other posters. Many of these others posters have corrected you with facts, not opinion. You cannot argue facts Icicle, your opinion has been only backed up with ideology, we all know any dummy has an opinion. The so called facts that you have tried to use to back your hairbrained opinion have been de-bunked many times from posters who do let the facts tell the story.

>>The government is trying to work with the BCTF, but not the other way around.

>>The government is trying to work with the BCTF, but not the other way around.

Icicle I can see by your posts you have not talked to any teachers have you?

Icicle how many special needs kids in a private school classroom? I would like to know? Icicle how many kids in a private school come to school hungry and without the proper equipment? Icicle how many kids in a private school do not have home support?

Icicle just how should teachers divide their time with different levels of students? What is your recommended class size and mix.

So Icicle just what do you propose to do with all the disadvantaged kids?

Icicle I can see why a private school teacher gets paid less, they have the cream of the crop so don’t have to do anything except smile.

Icicle’s comments reflect many people’s view. Hardly “hairbrained”, taxed out.

Seamutt,

I understand your questions were mostly rhetorical, but you can find the % of special need students in the Fraser Institute report. You will see virtually all private schools have the number listed at N/A or 0%. Some have a small ESL population, but not even close to what the public system is working with.

Even more important than that number though is the number listed under parents average income.

There is simply no point comparing public to private. It is like comparing the New York Yankees with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Seamutt, If this was all about dealing with disadvantaged kids, it would be settled. Their demands are way beyond that issue. Tell me how does more paid timeoff helps the disadvantaged kids?

The problem with Icicle’s “view’s” is they are not based on fact or current numbers.

He/she along with too many others have primacy bias and unfortunately believe the first set of numbers they hear and are never willing to move from them despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

The real problem here is that the Government has an endless propaganda budget and has blanketed the media with misinformation. Unfortunately, the rubes are all believing it. Even more unfortunate, the union is for all intensive purposes is broke due to a 10 year court battle (That they won) fighting for class size and composition. Even the strike fund will only last 4 days. Because of this, they cannot get the message out to the public the same way the government has. Isn’t it nice the government is using our tax dollars this way?

dow7500,

The “more paid time off” was already taken out of the bctf’s most recent offers. Another case of primacy bias. Did you miss the last thread where this was all outlined correctly? Or do you just choose to purposefully spread misinformation?

I sent this to opinion250 yesterday to show the other side of the story to the article they published yesterday. It is the response to the government’s “claim’s vs fact’s.”

We will see if this site is unbiased enough to publish it.

http://thatsnolie28.blogspot.com/2012/03/corrections-to-government-made-up-facts.html

Have you got a better word than “hairbrained” dow7500?

You know what, I am biased. 20 years of BCTF crap will do that. Look back at their record of over the top demands and it becomes obvious what kind of a radical entity they are. You want to be treated with respect? Can the negotiaters and staff it with adults.

The BCTF also is waging a PR battle and using their considerable resources to do so; don’t be fooled into thinking otherwise.

As far as the BCTF is concerned, this isn’t about what’s best for kids, it’s about what’s best for the BCTF.

“As far as the BCTF is concerned, this isn’t about what’s best for kids, it’s about what’s best for the BCTF.”

Do nurses negotiate for more hospital beds?
Do mill workers negotiate for more environmental methods?
Do postal workers negotiate for quicker mail service?
Do grocery workers negotiate for better produce?
Do liquor store workers negotiate for better selection?

Why do you feel the BCTF should be doing what is best for kids? That is the parents job, and for some reason they are virtually silent in that area. Children are parents most precious item, and for some reason they don’t lobby the government at all for better education.

For some reason it is left to the teachers to negotiate not only their livelihoods, but everyone else’s best interest as well, the future of the next generation.

To your other argument Johnny, show me some actual numbers and facts. “Considerable resources.” Go ahead….

I know that the union has only 4 days of strike pay because they have had to borrow from that fund to pay for lawyers in their 10 year battle, as well as borrowing 1 million dollars for a recent run of commercials. The government is spending taxpayer dollars, and for what?

Now go ahead and do as you always do and cherry pick one comment to harp on instead of answering all the questions you know you are defeated on.

Cut to the Chase, How much will my Taxes go up, my Pension won’t.

My grandsons go to a school that never assigns homework. However, with the strike vote, the teachers made sure that the students would not fall behind in their work by sending them home with next weeks assisments. These are due on Thursday.

Icicle, you obviously do not have children or grandchildren whose education you care about. If the government’s Bill 22 passes it will significantly impact classrooms in a negative way.
-There will be any number of special needs children in a class. It will be very difficult to meet the needs of children who do not have learning problems, as much time will need to be spent with those with learning and behaviour problems, with less than adequate support.
-There will be no upper limit for class sizes.
-If your child does require Learning Assistance or extra support, that may be difficult to come by, as caseloads will be too large. Learning Assistance/Special Needs support has already been reduced significantly in the last 10 years.
This bill involves major contract stripping. Forget about negotiating……the government has done NONE!

Icicle, you obviously do not have children or grandchildren whose education you care about. If the government’s Bill 22 passes it will significantly impact classrooms in a negative way.
-There will be any number of special needs children in a class. It will be very difficult to meet the needs of children who do not have learning problems, as much time will need to be spent with those with learning and behaviour problems, with less than adequate support.
-There will be no upper limit for class sizes.
-If your child does require Learning Assistance or extra support, that may be difficult to come by, as caseloads will be too large. Learning Assistance/Special Needs support has already been reduced significantly in the last 10 years.
This bill involves major contract stripping. Forget about negotiating……the government has done NONE!

Icicle, you obviously do not have children or grandchildren whose education you care about. If the government’s Bill 22 passes it will significantly impact classrooms in a negative way.
-There will be any number of special needs children in a class. It will be very difficult to meet the needs of children who do not have learning problems, as much time will need to be spent with those with learning and behaviour problems, with less than adequate support.
-There will be no upper limit for class sizes.
-If your child does require Learning Assistance or extra support, that may be difficult to come by, as caseloads will be too large. Learning Assistance/Special Needs support has already been reduced significantly in the last 10 years.
This bill involves major contract stripping. Forget about negotiating……the government has done NONE!

dow7500 ya right you go ahead and believe that. The fiberals started this fight to divert away from their lying crooked ways, and putting this province into the hole despite all our resources.

dow 7500 said:
Icicle’s comments reflect many people’s view. Hardly “hairbrained”, taxed out.

X2.
metalman.

dow7500 and metalman don’t like “hairbrained” does anyone have a better word for “hairbrained”?

Icicle.

Which schools are group 1 because the few private schools I inquired to we’re going to cost quite a bit more than 3k a year for my three children.

And are there any NON faith based private schools in PG?

I actually just looked up a few of the catholic schools and they do have reasonable affordable tuition. Not everyone is open to a faith based school though.

And are there any NON faith based private schools in PG?

I actually just looked up a few of the catholic schools and they do have reasonable affordable tuition. Not everyone is open to a faith based school though.

And are there any NON faith based private schools in PG?

I actually just looked up a few of the catholic schools and they do have reasonable affordable tuition. Not everyone is open to a faith based school though.

Icicle.

Which schools are group 1 because the few private schools I inquired to we’re going to cost quite a bit more than 3k a year for my three children.

Ugh. Clearly this website doesn’t like my phone. Sorry for the multiple posts.

Well this is working well, we’re arguing about a contract that the fiberals had toren up and we are foregetting about the HST. The Fiberals are giving buckets of our tax dollars to the corporations who really don’t need it and we are denying the money that is due to the teachers.

I think Icicle is actually Christie Clarke. A fitting username for the warm woman…

Support your local teachers – they care more about your kids than the current government. The BC Liberals have had their time in power – and are going down.