As we move from general taxation to more and more so-called user fees we also need to move from “truth in taxation” reporting from City Hall.

The question is, how are we going to get City Hall to do that.

How about user fees for policing? Firefighting?

Got a ticket? put a surcharge on it to pay for the service of policing our driving.

We pay for ambulance service. Why not fire response. We make sure we have fire insurance. That insurance covers hundreds of thousands to rebuild. Why not an additional $50,000 for emergency fire fighting services to the house or business?

I mean, why should I pay for everyone else’s fires?

THIS city has been using the shell game on taxpayers for a long time. The current Council is continuing a long traditions.

They had better get another line for snow removal complaints then because when it is added to the utilities every homeowner will see how much they are paying and will expect to get service that reflects that.
I have never seen the roads as bad as they are this year. I figure if I multiply the few times they have been past my house by the few minutes it takes my cost for snow removal should be pretty cheap.

Seems to me awhile back that the RDFFG had about a million bucks sitting around to donate to the Performing Arts Centre whiners to help their agenda along. I mentioned this then. Surprise! Surprise! (As Gomer would say), the RDFFG dropped that proposal just before or after the feds and the province refused funding for the PAC. Could have been me. (Mr. Nobody) What did the “city”say after these refusals? Rather than give up some ninny at city hall said, “Oh well, I guess we will have to persue other avenues”. Never say die, eh? As Columbo would say, “One more thing”. Can I opt out of garbage pickup, save myself a ton of money and use the Charter of Rights “Freedom of Association” as a reason?

As each day passes it just reinforces the choice we made to leave this city the moment we retire. Go where you only have property tax to pay and to hell with all the other dreamed up charges/fees.

Call it a shell game if you want, but the fact is that the cost of operating all these services, not to mention such things as debt servicing, have gone through the roof and we cannot continue to run up the city (taxpayer) credit card.

We must get to the point where money coming in covers the cost of running the City. A certain amount of blame has to go to current and past councils for allowing us to get to this point. Also, we need to reign in useless costly projects like district entergy systems and expensive police stations and China junkets.

Something has to give at some point. We have to reduce the cost of operating the city, or raise taxes and user fees. Whether that comes in the form of staff reductions or cuts to services, that is left to be decided. The other option is to raise taxes and user fees. We cannot continue to have the belief that we can have all the services we demand and low taxes. Hard choices have to be made at some point.

i would be willing to pay higher taxes if the city srevices were ummmm good! you know like decent snow removal pothole filling ect but the city has kinda proven that they are not good with money or planning. to raise taxes without people screaming about it our leaders would have to show improvements. they just seem like they are out of touch with real people

$268,000 dollars short in the operation of the transfer stations. I wonder if the costs of trendy hybrid and electric vehicles and a plugin station would cover a good portion of the shortfall. Time to just get back to the basics, no more trendy toy buying on the taxpayers back.

Boudicca: “i would be willing to pay higher taxes if the city srevices were ummmm good!”

That’s part of the problem too. They’ll never be good enough for some people. There are people who expect a snowplow to come by as soon as a snowflake hits the ground, and are screaming if a day goes by after a snowfall and their street isn’t plowed. Unrealistic.

true johnny people need to be realistic as well. i think people assume that when taxes go up so too should the qualiy of the things taxes pay for? i admit i dont know much about how this stuff works like lots of people, i just see costs increasing and not really any improvement

Boudicca: “i think people assume that when taxes go up so too should the qualiy of the things taxes pay for?”

That’s another bad assumption people make. Quite often, when taxes go up it’s to maintain current levels of service, not improve it.

It seems like governments at all levels try to be everything to everyone, while keeping staffing levels up, costs down, and taxes low. It’s just not realistic and we all need a wake up call. Soon.

“the feds and the province refused funding for the PAC”

Trying to stop the spread of false rumours …. which, of course, is impossible … LOL ….

However, the feds did not accept a proposal from the City very likely because the City tried to squeeze in a “donation in kind” partnering when the request from the feds specifically excluded that kind of “partnering”. As far as I could tell, they wanted a show of a location as well as a reasonable funding partnership (say 25%) which the City did not offer.

The Province never did refuse. They were never given the opportunity to since they were not asked. However, if you read and look at Ben’s recent series on downtown, you can see the PAC in some of the early proposals.

You know, I never thought I would say this, but you can thank the City’s waffling that we do not have a PAC. In fact, the PAC was front and centre before the City got the winter games.

For now, it is a non topic until a new bunch of people gather around a table and say to each other: “whatever happened to the PAC; why did it fail; what can we learn from that; anyone left to give it the 4th or 5th try ….. maybe we will succeed on the 10th go at it.” …. LOL

But wrote: “Go where you only have property tax to pay and to hell with all the other dreamed up charges/fees”

I agree!!!

I do not understand why we have utility taxes for
1. water when we have no meters and everyone gets charged the same in their land use category
2. sanitary — when we have no turd counters …
3. storm??? when nobody calculates the hard surfaces on our properties that drain into the storm drains
4. garbage – when no one weighs the containers that get loaded on the truck or measures the trip from property to landfill.

One bill with one line item each for
1. City Tax … period
2. Northern Health Tax
3. RDFFG Tax
4. SD57 Tax

Boudicca wrote: “but the city has kinda proven that they are not good with money or planning”

That is certainly what it looks lke to me. There is no information that tells me otherwise.

Service is getting worse or our expectations are getting higher. Cost is getting worse, and we know that is true since we can compare year over year expenditures and revenues.

I wish that we had similar data for services provided.

I also wish we had good comparative data to see whether we have the same probelms and to the same extent as other cities have.

BUT, there is that continuing fact that the City does not make it easy to get verifiable data that they are actually running this City as well or better than the average in BC.

Such inforamtion is available, but no one is sharing. Which typically means that the data is not in our favour.

“i just see costs increasing and not really any improvement”

That is sort of normal. I still have the same property I had 35 years ago yet it has gone up in value 10 fold. Just because costs/prices increase over time does not mean quality/quantity increases.

There is a disconnect.

You see, the problem is that the City has no snow removable standard. Doing the job when they get a round tuit is not an acceptable standard, especially when the standard for “job” is not even clearly written.

“There are people who expect a snowplow to come by as soon as a snowflake hits the ground, and are screaming if a day goes by after a snowfall and their street isn’t plowed. Unrealistic.”

A bit exaggerated, but that is what actually happens in most Ontario and Quebec Cities. It is not unrealistic at all. At least the people in those cities do not think so since they exerience it, they know it can be done, and they understand how it can be done since they can see how it is done.

gus: “A bit exaggerated, but that is what actually happens in most Ontario and Quebec Cities. It is not unrealistic at all.”

There’s no question there’s room for efficiency in our own snow removal. Will we ever see it? Doubtful. Will costs continue to rise? Absolutely.

I live on the Hart and I have never seen such poor snow removal service as I have seen this year. I have lived in the area since 1989. There is also a total disregard for snow removal at the Hart Highway and Austin Road, for the safety of pedestrians. I believe we need someone new in charge of snow removal since the present person in charge, disregards the needs of the taxpayers of Prince George. He definitely should be replaced immediately. Is the mayor listening?

For all the little armchair Economists, here is a little Economics pre101; when you live in an economic system such as ours, costs almost invariably will rise. So too, should your wages if you’re diligent, work hard and continually improve yourself and your skills. If that is not what’s happening for most of you, don’t point the finger at anyone else.

Costs always rise, so eventually, you will be charged more for the same thing. A dollar today is worth considerably less than what a dollar ten years ago could purchased. This is the nature of our economy. I won’t get into the messy details about why it works that way, just know that it does.

To do a true efficiency analysis for government, or anyone else for that matter, you have to factor in inflation, taxes, etc… This is not easy to do properly, which is why we spend a lot of time measuring things based on nominal dollars, which is not very informative. To be fair, you’d also have to factor out variability, also not easy to do with a large and complex organization. How much snow was cleared last year vs this? How many machine hours were required to remove X amounts of snow this year vs last year? What increase/decrease in costs are due to fuel prices, maintenance costs, operator wages, insurance, aggregate, overtime, etc. Ad nauseam.

It’s not as simple as it might appear from afar, but it is amusing to read some of your posts and I suppose on some level I’m glad you have a place to vent your misplaced rage.

In 1970 oil was $3 dollars a barrel.
In 1970 toast and coffee was .35cents.
In 1971 I bought a new Toyota for less than $2000.
In 1975 I bought a new car for $3400.
Help me escape from the past.
And not at .20 cents a beer either.

Thanks Ben. I believe its true. And I thought the transfer stations were contracted out or is that just the landfill?

I too believe that garbage should be weighed. We put out very little, often one partly filled small can every two weeks but we pay the same as someone who fills their can for every garbage day.

I too believe that garbage should be weighed. We put out very little, often one partly filled small can every two weeks but we pay the same as someone who fills their can for every garbage day.

Tipping fees at the landfill are nearly as stupid as bringing back pay parking in the core. Whatever the council and various beauracracies are smoking, please pass to the left.

Just got our notice for utilities, which we pay through the bank along with interest, principles, and taxes. We’ve been hit with a 25%+ icrease in the monthly bill, which is a total piss-off given that my wife has hit 65 and we were looking forward to paying less land tax. Back to the drawing board on that one, I guess. Thanks, Queen Green (oh, and your little lap-dog, Cameron)!