Who Suggested Derailing Funding for the Little Prince Steam Train?
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 3:45 AM
It is not suprising that the Committee of the Whole has opted NOT to cut funding to the Little Prince Steam train. The idea was one of the "opportunities" presented in the Core Review to save money, in this case, shutting down the train ( which is older than the City), would have saved a whopping $15,000.
What is more surprising is why the matter of the train’s funding was before the committee in the first place.
Who came up with the idea of cutting the funding and why did it stay on track for this long?
If it came strictly from the core review, investing $350,000 to cut a program worth 15 grand out of a budget of $130 million would make you wonder who made the suggestions as to any cuts, or did this one come from a request from a different source.
If the Core review is responsible, then let’s hope they, for example, looked at the lunches that committees receive during the lunch time when they sit on committee meetings, perhaps a Big Mack would be cheaper than a sandwich and I’m sure if you buy enough they would toss in a drink on the side.
Don’t for example look at the travel budget of the various Councillors and Mayor, that’s the wrong rock to look under, well maybe not, but certainly no one seems willing to tackle the staff travel budget.
Cut out the trips to China and presto, you have a few years covered off for the steam train, which by the way creates more of a draw to the city than any "twinning" would ever hope to do.
But in the end it is priorities, and sadly the matter even had to be discussed. It shows a major lack of understanding on what really are the priorities in the city in the minds of those who are supposed to be guiding us.
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
Comments
Lol, that’s a good point. I bet the lunches for all these boards and focus groups are over 15,000.
Why don’t they do their own thing for lunch like the majority of us do?
Just charge more to ride the train. That seems to be the answer for every other shortfall. However let’s face it. Tourists don’t come to Prince George to ride the Little Steamer as the writer jokingly suggests.
If the writer’s point is to cut reckless spending leave the useless little steamer out of it.
It is a Prince George icon.. its cheap.. the kids love it.. we keep hearing from our over paid mayor and council that we want tourism.. so why cut something that may not bring tourism but will give tourists something to do while here ?
Does mayor and council even think before they make decisions ? Common sense has gone the way of the Dodo in city hall since Green stumbled through the doors.
Look at it another way ….. the train did not fucntion for something like 3 years because there was no money available to get it fixed in a timely fashion.
No changes were made to promotional tourist literature to reflect that fact. No money was found to get the thing fixed for next season. No one seemed to care.
But then, we treat our roads and parks the same way.
So do we really care about this train? Sure does not look like it to me.
gus: “So do we really care about this train? Sure does not look like it to me.”
Bingo. Keeping this train around seems to be more about keeping nostalgic feelings alive more than anything. If nobody rides it anymore, shut it down or sell it.
blog/view/20020/1/not+all+of+council+on+board+with+steam+engine++plan?id=143&st=6259
I think it is worthwhile to read this report and some of the opinions from the time the train’s recommissioning was under discussion … all the same suspects on Council ……
We voted them back in, and Munoz out …. so why are we so surprised that this train was on the table to cut? The signs weree there then …. and the signs are still here now … and they will be there at the next election …. something about a tiger not changing its stripes ….
I doubt voters will change either. We are in this for the long haul, so get used to it.
“nostalgic feelings” …. interestiing isn’t it? A human trait and one of the key reasons people travel.
I know, we should be much more robotic and emotionless and the world would be perfect. ;-)
I’m all for keeping nostalgia alive… as long as I don’t have to subsidize your nostalgia. ;-)
Speaking of staff travel budgets, I have a friend who works for the City who travels each and every year to the same conference (different US cities most times). That person is there for a week each time. Their job is not akin to brain surgery or rocket science, it has to do with recreational activities. The conferences, each and every year, are about event management, security, etc. What a waste of money! I can’t believe that the City sends this highly paid person on a conference (read: vacation) every year. Surely things in that field (event management) do not change that much from year to year.
I had also heard of administrative (read: clerical) staff travelling to Vancouver for education, conferences, etc.
This is a ridiculous way to spend our tax dollars and I would like to see an end to it.
There is nothing wrong with having this train available for kids to ride, and tourists to look at. Anyone who wants to get rid of it to save $15000.00 has no sense of reality, as to what makes up a community.
Much better to have a train, than a bunch of people sitting around in a huge building on 1st Avenue, (IPG) costing us over $1 Million per year. These people make absolutely no contribution to the City, and yet they seem to survive year after year.
IPG was not put on the table, or put under close scrutiny as it should be, nor was the Cougar Franchise, the $300,000.00 per year cost of supporting the Northern Sports Centre, the huge cost of City Managers, etc; etc; etc;.
If you think that this little train is costly, what about the $15 Million plus for the Winter **Games**. We will have all sorts of high rollers running around on their big salaries, sucking up to the high paid Politicians, and generally having a good time at the expense of the taxpayers of Prince George.
The train is a positive thing and is doing just fine. These other things need to be looked at with a view to getting back to the basics.
I think Ben is having a slow news day and just wanted to stir the pot a bit.
We all know that one of the objectives of the core review was to look at ways of saving money – without sentiment. The little train was part of the PG Budget and therefore came under review. The city looked at the item, rejected the idea of cutting funding and moved on. End of story.
As I said, slow news day for Ben – tying committee lunchs to the train budget.
It’s considered customary to dislike politicians and put them on the hot seat for every woe we citizens experience. Walk a day in there shoes, being criticized for going into politics for the best of intentions, and then tell them to bring a bag lunch to a meeting that cuts into their private lives for the betterment of the city. Come on!
If the lunchs were coming from the Shogun or Rics Grill I would be offended. Let them have the boring sandwichs for committee lunchs. I think they work hard enough for soup and sandwichs.
If you have to complain about everything our councillors do – put your name on the ballet!
As for the train, I would like to see the city, not the governing body but the residents of our city, come up with and implement a plan to increase the track of the little train and turn it into a true a tourist attraction. Anyone that has ridden the Kamloops Zoo train or the Stanley Park train can attest to the tourism draw. This would be another great Rotary project but – sadly – funding would be required. Any takers?
Palopu, your argument that government wastes money in many other ways is well taken, but it sounds like you’ve got a soft spot for the train as well.
Why not donate some of your own money (and time) to keep it up and running?
Palopu: “The train is a positive thing and is doing just fine. These other things need to be looked at with a view to getting back to the basics.”
Subsidizing a train is your idea of ‘the basics’? Hmm…
“This is a ridiculous way to spend our tax dollars and I would like to see an end to it.”
Municipal governments are all about finding ridiculous ways to spend our tax dollars. For starters, the city pays over 45 million dollars in salaries alone. Are you getting 45 million dollars worth of work out of these people? Not even close; they found their gravy train and they’re going to ride it until we’re broke.
As for the train? Charge enough to ride it so it pays for itself. Pretty simple.
As Ben said questioning a 15k expenditure in a budget of this size is akin to digging for a penny in the back of the couch. Plenty of other low hanging fruit with a much bigger payoff!
Lots of sacred cows in the core review,one not mentioned so far the DES. At one time the green card could be pulled to justify paying higher costs than natural gas but now that hog is being hauled from Isle Pierre that goes away.
In 2011 the city paid over $4.1 million dollars to Lakeland and if that was all DES money then saving even a percent or two by switching back to gas should be done.
Maybe Ben drove by the new cop shop this morning and it got him all riled up.
That is how my day started….tell me that even cops and Councillors are not embarrassed?
Reminds me of the old home improvement adage “we started with re-painting the kitchen and then to keep going”. The rest of downtown is look’n real shabby next to it….
Some things are worth the small amount they cost to other projects that cost a ridiculous amount and aside from some basic items, it is up for healthy and ongoing debate. That will never stop.
Johnnybelt: “I’m all for keeping nostalgia alive… as long as I don’t have to subsidize your nostalgia. ;-)”
I can pretty much bet that whatever your particular nostalgia is….I or someone else, has or is, subsidizing it, in part or by whole, my friend.
Cut back on catered lunches at your “meetings” council. As a parent, going to the park and utilizing the train is a cross-generational experience that promotes positivity within a crap-hole, gang and drug infested city which Prince George has become. Who needs China? What is China going to do for Prince George? Stop the drug trade? I think not!
BCNorth: “I can pretty much bet that whatever your particular nostalgia is….I or someone else, has or is, subsidizing it, in part or by whole, my friend.”
Maybe, but why should you have to?
As axman said, just raise the cost so it can sustain itself. It seems that there are a good number of people who would support the train enough to keep it running.
One suggestion to save 0-20k a year was to get more people to use online payments….our (bad)Acting City Manager’s response ” Soltis says putting more things on the web would cost more in money and time, but there are things that can be done to get the public to use the existing online service .
Council will be asked to find ways to get the public to use online payment opportunities”
I guess she has dumped all responsibility as CFO because this item is funded for this year. If she was paying attention would have said “slated to happen in the current year with full payback expected in ? years”
#721 2013 capital projects
“Additional disk storage is slated for 2013 and renewed attention to web services, specifically the main website. Included is an upgrade to our Tempest system
which handles our Tax and Utilities. $75,000.00″
lonesome: “Soltis says putting more things on the web would cost more in money and time, but there are things that can be done to get the public to use the existing online service .”
I think there are still a significant number of people who stand in line at City Hall to pay their property taxes and utility bills. Crazy, I know.
I would like to see pool fees increased, pay to play meters at ice links, indoor and outdoor. Also at the tennis courts, soccer fields, play grounds, base ball diamonds and bicycles licensed to recover road tax.
“get more people to use online payments”
Not everyone has, wants or can afford a computer. Not everyone has computer skills.
“Maybe, but why should you have to?”
Because there are certain things in our society that have a value that cannot be expressed in dollars and cents.
JB:
The point I was making was that as head bean counter Ms. Soltis should have been fully aware that money was allocated to upgrade the Tempest system(every one I have ever met know where every penny is going)
I would really like to see the justifications for some of the expenditures. In the private sector you have to prove there is payback(ROI) to even have a chance to loosen the purse strings.
An example is the pavement management system, god knows what was spent but the recommendations that it spits out are thrown out the window come paving season in order to address the latest “worst road in B.C.” So at the end of the day was a waste of money.
The new flavor of the month is the Asset Management System a multimillion multiyear project that will likely produce more reports that we do not have the cash to do. As part of this project in 2014 760k is on the books to “to expand Linear Asset Mgmt to the crews in the street. With that, we expect
to see Automatic Vehicle location software to be included for possible implementation going forward”……And the payback knowing where a vehicle is at any given point is???
Also read that at some point would include laptops in all the vehicles….updating status to “pounding the pooch” on facebook:)
NMG: “Because there are certain things in our society that have a value that cannot be expressed in dollars and cents.”
Who gets to make that determination? What’s valuable to you might not be valuable to me and vice versa.
For just about anything you can think of that receives public funds, no matter how small (the train is a good example), there’s a small vocal special interest group to fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo. At the end of the day, taxpayers can’t afford to appease everyone.
JohnnyBelt must have been nearly run over by the train or something, sure seems to have a burr in his saddle about it.
No, I like trains. I just don’t get why this item should get special consideration.
As gus mentioned, it seems that most people don’t care one way or another about it (and can even do without it for 3 years), then someone suggests the funding be removed and people come out of the woodwork.
slippery slope JB….
Lets double the price of fuel and that all goes towards roads. If you dont drive then you dont pay for the roads. Perfect. If you have kids in school than swipe your Visa – wouldnt want anyone without kids paying for that now would we? Cougars tickets are now $400 per game so those people that dont go do not have to subsidize. Little Timmy wants to play baseball? $4000 per year per kid to look after the fields. On the bright side cable tv prices will drop because everyone will just stay home ;)
“the city pays over 45 million dollars in salaries alone”
Those are just direct salaries ….. each time they contract out, they pay indirect salaries to the contractors employees as well as their going to vconferences and the owner going on vacation in Hawaii which happens to have a conference on or they have their annual shareholder meeting there …. his wife and him and the two kids over 18 …..
The train is for the kids. The cost is minimal and the least we can do for them.
Im sure the (rotten to the) core review put a number of items on the list so that the City could keep them and make it look like this whole thing is not a set up.
To give you an example of where your money goes, I recently watched two City employees in a (new) pick up truck putting snow sticks on fire hydrants.
Here’s how it goes.
1. Drive up and adjacent to hydrant and stop.
2. Go to back of truck a take out a 2×4.
3. Take 2×4 to hydrant and hold it against the hydrant.
4. Nod to fellow employee, who then ties 2×4 to hydrant.
5. Return to (idling) vehicle and proceed to next hydrant and repeat process.
Have a nice day.
“taxpayers can’t afford to appease everyone”
Now there is the rub ….. we should be making sure that we appease those who need it and cannot afford to pay full price …. but it seems in the real world it works the other way around too often.
As I review these posts, It occurs to me that some folks have been sniffing too much of the Pulp mill air. As a Community we need to stop and ask ourselves what kind of a Community do we want to live in Palopu has it right, councilâs simply tripping over Loonies to pick up dimes.
The Little Prince is so very popular in our City. Why would a core review, that cost over one third of a million dollars, suggest eliminating funding for the Little Prince. I road the Little Prince last year and the total riders for the weekend exceded 3000. Are our elected municipal representatives listening to the wishes of the people of Prince George?
Again, Ben, you are up front, speaking for all of us.
Some of these posters should take a double dose of their meds and crawl out of the basement into the light of a nice summer day; then go down to the park and check out all the smiling happy little faces that get to ride on this unique train.
” I road the Little Prince last year and the total riders for the weekend exceded 3000.”
With those numbers it should be an inexpensive piece of cake to keep it running. If they would have charged a buck a ride they made over $3000 in one weekend.
I think we have our pot hole solution here! :)
The little engine that could. For many years that little engine stood as a static display just east of the old train station on first avenue. I know because I would play on it as a young child. Then one day in the early seventies a committee was struck to bring that little engine back to life…”I think I can”; so a combination of volunteers and goodwill from the City made the little engine come back to life again….”I can” and for years that little engine pulled it’s little cars around some track, entertaining visitors and bringing in some cash. Now almost 40 years later the City is saying “No you can’t” sending a rare operating steam engine back to the past as a static display, a monument of the backwards thinking that is often found in this city! Whatever “bean” counter came up with that idea has no vision for this city and is smitten with the “wind” ;(
With all the supporters the train has, it should be no problem to raise $15K.
I’m surprised that the ticket costs don’t seem to cover the operation and maintenance, considering how popular some say it is.
Whether the decision goes one way or the other, it is fair game for the core review.
JB – I think what the people are saying is they don’t want a cheap and boring city, which Green and company seem to want to promote. Ms. Green has no vision for this City…she needs to take the next train to China..(economy rate)..
Dismantling the community in the city for nickles and dimes.
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