Huh? Do you know what discrimination even means?

A noble cause to be sure. For all the government (taxpayer) money that’s spent trying to get people to locate here, how effective is it?

How do we compare with all the other towns that receive government funding to do the exact same thing? Doesn’t it all just cancel out?

From the article: “Ray is calling on residents to look up “Consider Prince George” on Facebook, click “like” and invite all their friends to do the same.”

And then…?

Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. Always was and always will be. So says me.

with the direction this city seems to be headed with our mayor and coucil, i wouldn’t recommend that to even my enemies. IMO.

Yes, all you Chinese immigrants are wanted here for 5 buck an hour. It’s the liberal/conservative way in Canada/BC. Bring your family’s too. Canadian business is tired of paying those that make them rich a fair wage any longer.

maybe we should make more of an effort to keep those we have raised here … I have seen younger family members and their friends with many of these “top five” desirables move away because PG employers were too restrictive in their employment practices (i.e. low wages, part-time positions, no job security, etc.) interesting that Calgary, Vancouver and other centres don’t practice these same restrictive practices …. that may explain why Prince George hasn’t really grown in 30 years …

Any organization that send me to facebook for more information without an alternate method of getting the same info is a dead loss to me. I do not do facebook.

Now that I have that off my shoulders, let me get to the meat of the message: “launched it’s campaign aimed at recruiting and retaining skilled immigrants from other regions of the Province.”

So, how come we are so bent on “stealing” immigrants from other regions of the province? Not a very neighbourly thing to do.

I mean, if you were renting out a room in your house and you needed a roomer, would you go throughout the neighbourhood and drop door leaflets in the mailboxes to ask existing roomers to consider moving from where they are renting now to renting at your place?

gus: “Any organization that send me to facebook for more information without an alternate method of getting the same info is a dead loss to me. I do not do facebook.”

Besides that, even if you did, clicking ‘like’ on a page amounts to nothing. People in public relations like to think it means something, but it doesn’t.

Prince George has a very bad reputation. I recall when I told my professor born in Paris that I intended to move to Prince George, he tried hard to persuade me not to move to Prince George. He had stayed in the city for a while in the 80s and he had a bad experience.

There is something rotten in the city that you can smell it (even in the air :). The problem is deep rooted and even international faculty and students have complained of discrimination and racism in UNBC (just read about them in the local newspaper or talk to discrimination officer in UNBC).

When immigrants are being insulted and mistreated even in the UNBC and university officials do not even care to apologize them, why people expect the immigrants to move to the city and not leave it? Is the rest of PG better than UNBC?

Posted by: univ
“Is the rest of PG better than UNBC?”

Probably most parts are, univ, if the Uni is as exclusive as you describe. I doubt one would find much racism if one were to mix in the community. Best way to do that is to join a club, get together with a variety of people who share your interests.
Racism can be found everywhere, but most people are decent, and tolerant, I find.

I would have thought the university atmosphere would be a shining example of tolerance, understanding, and equality.

As to the plans to attract skilled labour to this area, good luck, you’re going to need it. Many have tried other approaches, with limited success, I hope this plan is the one that works.
Anyway you look at it though, the Northern Interior is in need of skilled people, its good that someone is trying to fix that.
metalman.

While this kind of initiative makes the PG COC feel all warm and fuzzy, the truth is the new immigrants may have a hard time finding employment if their trade certification is not recognized in BC or Canada.

They come half-way around the globe to live and work only to find their education is worthless. My Optometrist is a perfect example.

He’s actually a Doctor of Ophthalmology (one of the specialities their screaming for in health care) but because he’s from Iran and didn’t graduate from a “recognized” institution, he would have to go to school all over again.

If the certification is not recognized, why not just test them when they arrive to see if their knowledge is valid instead of putting up these fences?

Why does the Chamber have to do this? Is IPG too busy with the winter games to perform its duties?

The battle for skilled trades is on. Prince George will probably be an exporter of skilled workers to other areas, ie; Kitimat, Terrace, Highway 37 (Transmission Line/Mines, Fort McMurray, Ft St John, Grande Prairie, etc; In fact many people from this area have already moved to these areas. In addition people in Prince George are moving South to Surrey, East to Grande Prairie, or Ft McMurray, where there is a lot of work, and an opportunity to run a business.

Quesnel has a huge sign on the Highway. ***Work anywhere, live in Quesnel***. They see the writing on the wall. Quesnel is a nice small town to live in if you are working somewhere else. Nanaimo, Parksville, Courtney, etc; also encourage people to work anywhere and live in their towns/citys.

Prince George has the population and somewhat cheap houses, however it taxes people to death, does not seem capable of providing the basic services, and of course has the 6 month winter to cope with, so I suggest that it is not the first choice for a lot of people.

There is a huge difference between what kind of a city Prince George actually is, as opposed to the kind of city some people, IPG, the Tourist Bureau, the City, etc; purport it to be.

We need to get our act together, quit trying to BS people and start to make this city a cheaper and more attractive place to stay.

One of the first things we could do, would be to quit gouging everyone that comes to this town, and of course those who live here. The price we pay for gas is a good example of screwing people. The price for cars/trucks/service/etc; also reflects a mentality of gouging.

The City itself spends most of its time trying to find ways to tax people, and increase user fee’s. They are the biggest enemy of the City. They are presently in the process of reinstating downtown parking, which will cost some people as much as $1200.00 per month to go to work. For low income earners, that’s almost a months wages, just to park your car.

The City on the other hand has employees in the upper end of the pay scale, and provides all the benefits, including free parking.

Time to wake up and smell the roses.

Palopu, you must not get out of town much. While I agree that PG has many challenges, with the air quality and the weather, the comments about taxation and perceived ‘gouging’ are off the mark. Businesses who ‘gouge’ won’t be in business for long. People aren’t stupid, and will shop around to find the best price.

Also, If you think PG is alone with respect to struggling to find the right levels of taxation and user fees to pay for all of the services, bells, and whistles that residents demand, you’re dreaming.

So here’s a question I’ve been pondering for awhile – Tim Hortons – lots of “temporary foreign workers” who by the way are very nice people.

Starbucks – no foreign workers. So why does Starbucks seem to be able to hire people from here, and Tim Hortons needs to go offshore. Could it have something to do with pay and working conditions.

“$1200.00 per month to go to work”

Where did you get that figure from. Daily car washes and once a week detailing included?

A person must be an idiot to pay that much.

Obama was on TV yesterday speaking about getting programs going to fix infrastructure in the country which is badly needed. According to him this is a good time to do that to get all those unemployed skilled people working.

Amazing how one country supposedly has no skilled people and the one next door has an overflow ready to go to work, but no projects to work on.

Two solitudes.

ski50: “Starbucks – no foreign workers. So why does Starbucks seem to be able to hire people from here, and Tim Hortons needs to go offshore. Could it have something to do with pay and working conditions.”

It could have something to do with the price of the coffee at Starbucks vs. Tim Hortons.

Exactly JohnnyBelt. So the question is, do we all want to pay a little more for our coffee – so someone here can get a job, or do we want to pay less, and give a job to someone who will send every penny they don’t spend back home. Keep in mind that the person here is likely on some kind of assistance and we’re paying for them already. Something I’m not sure is factored in with foreign workers is the burden on the healthcare system – because we have to provide medical care for the person here – whose not working – and the foreign worker, whereas if we got our person working, that would be one less person in the medical queue. It would be great if our University might take that on as a project – how much do foreign workers really cost and are we subsidizing profit making businesses by allowing the practice.

ski50: “Exactly JohnnyBelt. So the question is, do we all want to pay a little more for our coffee – so someone here can get a job, or do we want to pay less, and give a job to someone who will send every penny they don’t spend back home.”

Despite many people’s outward views (and faux outrage) regarding foreign workers, many of those same people still buy coffee at Tim Horton’s, shop at Walmart, etc. If people actually cared about the issue like the claim to, these stores would be struggling to survive. But that clearly isn’t the case.

In the case of coffee, the great thing is that people have a choice — buy coffee at Timmys and support the continued use of foreign workers, or buy it at Starbucks. What people say they do and what they actually do are two different things.

Univ wrote; “Is the rest of PG better than UNBC?” Hard to tell.Where are most of the students & faculty from? Seems to me if racism & discrimination is rampant at UNBC it is being imported from parts elsewhere than PG.
PG does have a bad reputation, partly deserved, mostly not. The one thing PG does not have going for it is a diversification of activities. Anotherside has a good point; why are we not trying harder to keep people here? My current employer has allowed 5 very skilled workers to leave for “greener” pastures without lifting a finger to try to retain them, all in the last year. All it would have taken was to go to these people & ask, realistically, “What would it take for you to stay”?
PG needs to further unburden itself of the perception that it is a good place to work but not to live in. We as a whole need to take more pride in our city, talk up it’s strengths to others, stop treating our steets & green spaces as garbage receptacles. If we want others to relocate to here, let’s show them that we want to be here, that this is not a side stop on a way to some place better. For those that are constantly complaining about how lousy PG is, go live some place else, see if the grass really is greener. I bet you will be surprised.

univ and metalman; this city is the most racist city around… just ask anyone who is of Aboriginal decent! Good luck to it trying to attract any visible minority.

Hey I have been trying to tell people about Abbotsford but your not listning. Great climate, no parking meters, lots of parks and recreation for your kids and things to do for retirees.

Price for a new home are not much different then PG. However there are many nice condos and town homes for around 250 grand.Lots of green space and the groceries are a lot cheeper then PG

And air quality is a hell lf a lot better then PG. Dont fall for this crap that all the bad air from the bid city ends up in Abby. See you soon.
Cheers

Gus you are off the mark on both counts. Obama has made the US into a welfare state. He wont find employees for his infastructure plans unless they come from Mexico, and we aren’t too far behind

Gus. It should read $1200.00 per year. Based roughly on the cost of meters, and or off street parking.

High rollers will not be effected to much of a degree by pay parking, however those on lower incomes, and those who spend hundreds of hours of volunteer time downtown will be.

JohnnyBelt. You wouldn’t know a gouger if he had his hand in your pocket. You are to busy defending them.

The recent increase in the hotel tax to fund the Tourist Bureau to the tune of some $500,000.00 per year is a good example. The hike in gas prices over the week-ends to catch people coming into and leaving Prince George is another. The constant higher gas prices than other Cities is also an example.

The constant advertising **Trucks are cheaper in Quesnel** should give you some indication.

Coffee in some restaurants at $2.75 per cup is another. Plus the high price of groceries, partly attributable to gouging, and also to the high prices of (gouged)) gas.

The downtown parking project is nothing more than an attempt by the City to implement a system that will generate revenue for them, under the guise of a parking problem, so that they can keep the tax increase low at least until after the next election and maybe the winter games. So another good example of **gouging** taxpayers.

So the new name of Prince George should be Price Gouge BC.

Palopu: “JohnnyBelt. You wouldn’t know a gouger if he had his hand in your pocket. You are to busy defending them.”

Lol, sorry you can’t deal with the facts. As far as gouging, I don’t whine about it, I shop elsewhere. That’s where we differ.

UNBC is a small sample of the population in PG. If someone really wants to resolve the problem to attract more, they should first analyze the problem and answer some tough questions. In UNBC there are (1) Direct discrimination and (2) Indirect discrimination.

By direct discrimination, I mean some Asian faculty members get a lower performance mark for a very good performance while their native English speaker colleagues getting a higher mark for a very poor performance and when they go complain of disparity, the discrimination is covered up by the UNBC discrimination officer (an English speaker) and some of the victims are disciplined and even one victim insulted in public by university administration and by faculty union English grievance officer. Or a faculty goes to his class and makes fun of the family name of his Asian Indian colleague to the extent of him changing his family name. In the latter even the international students become aware of the extent of discrimination and they urge intl students not to join UNBC.

By indirect discrimination, I refer to cases where a faculty is targeted and his Intl. students are deprived of studentship or research grants the way other students get them. Again the student organization and international students become involved and even become the target of discrimination and they talk about discrimination in UNBC and urging other intl students not to come to UNBC.

More complex examples of indirect discrimination in UNBC where non-native faculty members with research on native languages are targeted in order to derail their work on 1st nation languages. Again the original targets are first nation languages and cultures. And the list goes on and on …. in payout … and university fails to confront the ongoing discriminations in order to attract more intl. students and faculties.

Apart from the effects on enrollments Shouldn’t a university in PG be “a shining temple on the hill?” What PG Chamber of commerce want to do about it when its former president is implicated in some of these UNBC discriminations (according to BC court documents)? Any answers to these Qs …?

Palopu: “The recent increase in the hotel tax to fund the Tourist Bureau to the tune of some $500,000.00 per year is a good example.”

A good example of what? How would you prefer the Tourism Bureau be funded? This way, or through general taxation? PG is hardly alone in imposing a hotel tax. Next time you stay in Vancouver, take a close look at your bill and see how many taxes and levies are tacked on?

“The hike in gas prices over the week-ends to catch people coming into and leaving Prince George is another.”

Complete and utter BS. You must have missed this story from last weekend.
blog/view/29068/1/surprise,+gas+price+dips+before+long+weekend

The constant higher gas prices than other Cities is also an example.

We are always within a few cents of the Provincial average. I’m not sure what you expect.

“The constant advertising **Trucks are cheaper in Quesnel** should give you some indication.”

Do you believe everything that’s advertised? Even if it were true, why are the PG car lots still in business?

“So the new name of Prince George should be Price Gouge BC.”

Sure, and our slogan could be, “Town of whiners”, or “Woe is me”.

“PG needs to further unburden itself of the perception that it is a good place to work but not to live in. We as a whole need to take more pride in our city, talk up it’s strengths to others, stop treating our steets & green spaces as garbage receptacles. If we want others to relocate to here, let’s show them that we want to be here, that this is not a side stop on a way to some place better. For those that are constantly complaining about how lousy PG is, go live some place else, see if the grass really is greener. I bet you will be surprised”

I was born and raised in PG and two years ago I decided to go live some place else (Ottawa). With the exception of having to leave lifelong friends and family, I can’t think of any reason why my new setting is not superior to Prince George in virtually every way.

I’ll try and give a run down of some of the main reasons why I say this:

– Clean air.
– Proximity and ease of travel to major Canadian and US centres outside of Ottawa.
– A plethora of post secondary opportunities for my son once he gets to that age (in Canada and the Northeastern US).
– The ability to experience diversity and multiculturalism every single day.
– Recreational opportunities abound (trail networks, hiking, fishing, skiing, golfing, boating, arts and entertainment, sight seeing, etc.).
– Low crime and a generally high level of respect and maturity amongst the population.
– Fine dining, services and shopping.
– The cleanliness of the city and the attitude amongst residents to keep it that way.
– This area of the continent has a very “established” feel to it. It’s hard to put into words, but things just feel more stable and less “raw”.
– I actually live in a lush, green city again!

If there is a downside, it’s probably the climate. I find the winters harsher than PG to be honest. They are definitely shorter, but the wind never stops, the snow often feels like concrete, we get ice storms and it gets just bitter cold when you factor in the wind and humidity. -15 here with a wind will kill you. Summers are hot and humid, but I like them now that I’ve acclimated. Houses also typically have A/C so you can deal with the heat far more effectively.

When I look at my list, there are allot of things on there that PG simply can’t offer because it’s not big enough. Moving forward, I think that’s the biggest risk for PG. Small to medium cities can do okay if they are reasonably close to large urban centres (think Chilliwack, Red Deer, or the various “bedroom” communities adjacent to the major urban centres) because people there can get all of the major services in the big city and still live in the outlying areas. Everything is within reach.

Small or medium sized cities that are isolated like PG or Thunder Bay, I think are going to be facing serious challenges in the future when it comes to population growth or attracting people who want to put down roots. Large cities have that mass about them and even if they are only growing 2-3% a year, that’s about half a PG being added to their population every single year.

The small areas will be hard pressed to keep up and the larger the big cities get and the more people become accustomed to the opportunities and quality of life they or the surrounding areas can provide to them, the more I’ll think you see people leave the smaller areas for the larger ones.

Keep in mind as well that for many immigrants coming to Canada, Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa or Montreal are small or average sized cities . . .

NMG yuor right on the money. PG is a working class town and many cant see how the social structure could be improved. Isuppose they realy dont care.
Cheers

Prince George is an industry lead and business run city, that sense of community left a long time ago!

You are absolutely correct NMG; Prince George is a good place to work, but not such a great place to live!

Comparing Prince George to Ottawa is much like comparing apples to oranges or Ottawa to Paris or London, or Ottawa to Berlin or Tokyo.

I suspect that all the working people of Canada pay a share to make sure that the politicians and hordes of government workers enjoy pleasant surroundings and entertainment galore!

How about comparing Hazelton, B.C. to Prince George, B.C.? Where would you rather live?

(Don’t tell me – Hazelton, of course!).

I lived for quite a few years in a much smaller town in B.C. before moving to Prince George, but I have never felt the need to go to the website of that much smaller town to make comments to point out to the people there how much better off I am now and to pity them for living in the smaller town which is very isolated, at the end of the road and short of most of the facilities and amenities we enjoy here in Prince George! Why would I bother to do that?

If I wouldn’t like living here I would have moved on a long time ago. To each his own, live and let live!

NMG, you’re out to lunch if you think the Ottawa area has better skiing, fishing & trail networks than PG. Other parts of your post? You live in freakin’ Ottawa, of course there is more fine dining, arts & culture…IT’S THE CAPITOL OF CANADA!!! Do you think our politicians would let their seat of power degenerate?
I suppose PG is a lousy place to live if all you do is hang out in a bar all day, or sit in front of your computer whining about how crappy life is here & how much better it is elsewhere. Go. Find your Nirvana, just stop whining about life here if you’re not willing to help either make yourself or your city better.

Univ wrote: “Any answers to these Qs”

You have asked that on more than this occasion.

Do you not realize that this site is not the community to ask such a question?

You have experienced something in another community, the UNBC community. I have yet to see someone come forward to support you or be able to give you a knowledgeable answer to your continual complaint which cannot even be fully explained on here since you would face possible libel accusations.

I certainly could not clarify anything about that since I do not work or study at UNBC.

I do not know whether there are others who can help you on here.

PG is a remote city and immigrants go to big cities like Toronto and Vancouver where there is a established community of them in the city, but PG has failed to keep its own population who have grown up in PG (like NMG) from moving to better cities and the number of schools closed are the warning signs for its future sustainability.

The other cities and universities with far less pollution, no discrimination and much lower crime rates can keep their own residents and provide “added value” to attract immigrants and international students. What the city and university want to do about high pollution, high discrimination and high crime rate to add positive value to the city? What plan of action? How many of them, after retiring, will also move to another city?

“will present a case for “considering” Prince George in both Mandarin and Punjabi”

Is this not out right racism? Also saw the subject on the local news where the discription Chinese and Indian was used directly. I thought we are supposed to be past racism. I am sure the sh.. would hit the fan if they only targeted white Anglo Saxon and stated that. Racism pure and simple.

I first moved to PG from La La land in 68 and never looked back. I prefer the 68 PG actually.
As for activities, what lack of activities, please explain.

Just pick up your dog sh.. in the winter.

What is irritating here is to see “a few” (paid or unpaid) coming defending all the negative things going in this city without providing a solution to its ills. .. You don’t write, you don’t ask, oh! don’t burst our bubbles …. As if by eliminating the questions from the forum, they eliminate the existence and solve the problems in this city.

The city and university is in this mess because it cannot use the valuable internal feedback given to improve its services. It is a failure of management …

JohnnyBelt. I get a headache just trying to figure out how your brain works.

1. We have had a tourist bureau in Prince George for many years. So do other Cities, and the hotel rate for most was 8%. Prince George last year increased the rate to 10% (2% increase) This money goes to the tourist bureau to pay for staffing, advertising etc;. So in fact they run the tourist bureau off the backs of shoppers who come to Prince George. If we needed a tourist bureau then you might be able to make some kind of an argument, however if you really wanted to save money you would get rid of these free loaders.

2. Gas is always higher in Prince George than in many other cities in the Province. Using the average is plain BS. We live next door to one of two refineries in BC, and therefore have very little freight charges to attach to our gas prices, however we seem to always be on the high end. This is gouging pure and simple, to suggest otherwise is to live in a world of fantasy.

3. Prices are cheaper in Quesnel because they are not gouging their customers. Prince George has the biggest selection of vehicles in the interior and therefore gets the most customers. PG car lots know that people come to PG on the week-end to buy a new vehicle, and will have one when they leave. Especially those who come from far away like Kitimat, Terrace, etc; Knowing that, the car lots gouge them. This information is common knowledge among people who sell cars.

Costco can sell gas in Prince George for the same price it sells for in Kamloops and make money. Why. Because the Prince George price is inflated by gougers. Once Costco lowers the price lets see how many gouger stations follow suit, or for that matter how many close,. My guess is none, because they can still make money selling gas for 5-8 cents a litre less.

Have a nice day.

News from the local Ramada web site:

“located in the heart of Prince George British Columbia.
“A historic city that has become a hub and gateway for transportation, commerce, and tourism for the Province of BC and now, North America”

How many on here knew that?

================================

The tax on a hotel room everywhere in the province is 5% GST + 8% BC Hotel tax + local Hotel tax where allowed.

Most large communities have added that local tax which is 2%, making it a total of 15% tax.

Here they are (we are far from being the only ones)

The MRDT of 2% applies in the following designated areas:  Alert Bay, Village of  Abbotsford, City of  Burnaby, City of  Chilliwack, City of  Central Kootenay, Regional District of – applies in electoral areas D, E and F  Clearwater, District of  Courtenay, city of  Columbia-Shuswap, Regional District of – applies in: • the Town of Golden • Kicking Horse Mountain Resort Area • the Columbia-Shuswap Regional District electoral area A, not including Yoho National Park  East Kootenay, Regional District of – applies in: • the City of Fernie and a portion of the East Kootenay Regional District electoral area A • the District of Invermere and a portion of the East Kootenay Regional District electoral area F • the Village of Radium Hot Springs and two portions of the East Kootenay Regional District electoral area G  Harrison Hot Springs, Village of  Kamloops, City of  Kaslo, Village of  Kelowna, City of  Kimberley, City of  Langford, City of  Langley, City of  Langley, Township of  Mount Waddington, Regional District of – applies in the Village of Port Alice and the Regional District of Mount Waddington electoral areas A, B, C and D
PST and MRDT Guide for Accommodation Providers Page 18 of 19
 Mount Washington Resort Association – applies in the resort area that is a portion of the Comox Valley Regional District electoral area C  Nanaimo, Regional District of – applies to the Nanaimo Regional District electoral areas E, F, G and H  Nelson, City of  North Vancouver, City of  North Vancouver, District of  Oak Bay, District of  Osoyoos, Town of  Parksville, City of  Penticton, City of  Port Hardy, District of  Port McNeill, Town of  Prince George, City of  Prince Rupert, City of  Qualicum Beach, Town of  Revelstoke, City of  Richmond, City of  Rossland, City of  Saanich, District of  Smithers, Town of  Squamish, District of  Sun Peaks Mountain Resort Area  Surrey, City of  Thompson-Nicola, Regional District of – applies in the Thompson-Nicola Regional District electoral area A  Tofino, District of  Ucluelet, District of  Valemount, Village of  Vancouver, City of  Vernon, City of  Victoria, City of  Wells, District of  Whistler, Resort Municipality of

“Prices are cheaper in Quesnel because they are not gouging their customers”

I have driven south to the USA quite frequently recently. I always check gas buddy so that I know whether to gas up in PG or anywhere else along the way. I fill up to an appropriate level accordingly. I can tell you that over the last year has NEVER been lower than PG other than possibly $0.01/litre. Most it was the same or higher.

The cities which were most often (not always) lower were Williams Lake, 100 mile house, cache creek, and hope, BUT not consistently. The last two times I waited to buy gas in PG since the 3.5cent/litre voucher for use of purchases at superstore reduced the price to lower than anywhere along the way.

“Costco can sell gas in Prince George for the same price it sells for in Kamloops and make money.”

And we know this how?

What is sure is that we will experience that in a few months. I expect the price to be relatively low at the beginning to draw customers in. If that is the case, the price will settle out shortly.

What I do not expect is that prices will match Costco just in a one km radius or so which is the way it works in Bellingham, for instance. Arco, Pilot and some single station independents play the competition game. The majors, Texaco, Shell, Exxon, etc. don’t play the match Costco and Arco game. It is interesting that they seem to in Kamloops.

“JohnnyBelt. I get a headache just trying to figure out how your brain works.”

It’s really not that hard to figure out. Many people can’t handle other’s points of view, when they differ from their own.

Some people are of the mind that their way of thinking is the only right way and anyone who see it any differently is wrong. You’re no exception.

What I would love to see in BC is that stations offer a 3cents per litre price reduction if the payment is made in cash or by debit card.

“NMG, you’re out to lunch if you think the Ottawa area has better skiing, fishing & trail networks than PG”

OMG, please look at a map and take notice of where the Laurentian, Appalachian and Adirondack mountains are in relation to Ottawa. Heck, I can leave my door and drive to a Winter Olympic site in the time it takes you to drive to Williams Lake.

While you are at it, do you notice those big things called the Great Lakes and how close they are (you can’t get to Stuart Lake before I could get to Lake Ontario)? The St. Lawrence River? The thousands of lakes in the Canadian Shield? Rivers in New York, Vermont and New Hampshire that gave rise to the term “Blue Ribbon” before PG was even settled?

You need to get over that “PG is in the heart of the Rocky Mountains” myth that some people there like to believe. I lived there for 35 years, you can’t trick me ;)

Oh and you should re-read my post if you think I was making a direct comparison between Ottawa and PG. I wasn’t, I was simply pointing out what I like about Ottawa and what other large urban centres can offer than smaller isolated cities cannot.

I could make a similar case for Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal . . .

Which incidentally are the cities that PG is in competition with to attract immigrants, which was the point of the article in the first place.

Gus know how to drop fuel price 7 cents right know?

Prince George is and always will be, and I quote, ” a gritty little mill town”. And as for the “UNBC community”, well it is still what IMO is called an “ivory tower” filled with young, idealist, leftist, environmentally and climatically concerned young people who are gonna graduate with mega debt and unfortunately do not have a clue about what it is to work (if they can get a well paying job in their field) and pay taxes to excess for forty years or more. It used to be called the “school of hard knocks”. Lots of life lessons to be learned. Carry on.

NMG, I’ve skied all over North America, hands down the PG area has some of the best powder skiing in the world. Why do people flock to this area, pay upwards of $10,000/week to enjoy what we have in our back yard? Not a booming Heli or backcountry scene in the Laurentians. Maybe you’ve bought into the “Ottawa is the centre of the Universe”. I have to ask; Why on earth would I go to Williams Lake to go skiing?
As far as trails, I urge you to follow your advice to me, look at a map. We live in the centre of 2 major mountain chains. You really believe that southern Ontario has more to offer than the Rocky & Coast Mountains. In the time it takes you to get to Lake Placid (if they let you into their country), I can be; backcountry skiing in either the Mcgregors or the Pine Pass; hiking on of the dozens of trails between here & Mt. Robson; mountain biking in what is becoming a mecca for bikers (Burns Lake); fishing in world famous salmon bearing streams. All of which as I mentioned above, people come from all over to enjoy. You may have lived here for 35 years but you didn’t begin to scratch the surface of what this area has to offer.

I did read your post & yes you were making a direct comparison. If you weren’t why did you list all the reasons you love Ottawa? Which….got the ball rolling. If where you are makes you happy, great, you will raise a family in an area of Canada you want to be in. I live here because despite what Mcleans magazine would have you believe, it really is not crime infested & is a great place to both work & live. The life syle I live, I could not afford if I live in Vancouver or Calgary yet if I want to visit those places I can most certainly afford to jump on a plane on a moments notice to get there.
PG is not perfect, will never be a Vancouver, Ottawa, Toronto etc. Maybe that’s the point.

lake Placid, been there, for resort style skiing I will take Sun Peaks or Silver Star over it anyday

Ottawa, about the only time the weather is not miserable there is the shoulder seasons.

“You may have lived here for 35 years but you didn’t begin to scratch the surface of what this area has to offer”

With the exception of the skiing, I’ve done everything you describe. I’ve hiked the PG area, I’ve fished the Skeena system, I’ve drug my boat up to Takla Lake, etc. I know exactly of the places you describe and what they offer. They are beautiful and yes, you can do all of those things there. There is no debate there.

I’ve said on O250 many times before, that I was completely ignorant about this side of country until I moved out here and experienced it. Now that I’m out here and have experiences to relate to, I stand by what I said earlier. There are more accessible outdoors activities in and around the Ottawa area, than there are in the PG area.

Heck, I can access world class outdoors activities within the cities of Ottawa/Gatineau themselves (mountain biking, boating and sailing, skiing, trail running, biking, hiking, snowshoeing, fishing, etc.).

When you factor EVERYTHING in and look at it on a whole, you’ll see why places like PG have a hard time attracting immigrants (which is what prompted this discussion). It isn’t about Ottawa vs. PG, it’s about large urban centres being far more attractive to MOST people than small isolated cities. The numbers and trends don’t lie.

Oh and btw, Ottawa isn’t really in Southern Ontario . . .

Skied Lake Placid, East Coast styrofoam. NMG if you want something close to skiing in the Rockies, check out Sugarloaf in Maine (bit of a trip but worth it), Mt. Tremblant or backcountry in the White Mountains in New Hampshire. All respectable, but….there’s a very good reason outdoor enthusiasts head west, sorry, to paraphrase you “It’s far superior.” ;)

Ottawa isn’t in southern Ontario?? Uh last time I checked it wasn’t that far from the US border which I’m pretty sure is south of Canada except Alaska & Hawai’i. As for accessable outdoor activities? I live about 200 metres from the Nechako, yesterday I walked out my front door, hopped on my bike & in 10 minutes was biking for about 3 hours on world class trails & didn’t see a human being until I got back out on the road (I did see 3 deer & a moose). In winter I can snowshoe & cross country ski literally from my front door. We can have this debate until we’re both bleeding from our fingers but there is no way you will ever convince me that the East has superior outdoor activities than the West. I guess we can agree to disagree. I did however live in New York state for a couple of years so I’m not ignorant to what there is to do out there.

Actually, no it isn’t!

When people say southern Ontario they are typically referring to to GTA, which is about 450KM away. Ottawa is typically thought of as Eastern Ontario. The corridor from Ottawa to Toronto and Ottawa to Montreal is very heavily populated, but if you head northwest of Ottawa, it’s actually similar in feel to that PG to Burns Lake stretch. Get off the highway either side and it’s very remote. If you head north across the river into Quebec, you’ll see some smaller towns, and then nothing much other than forests, lakes and rivers until you hit Hudson Bay. In fact, there is a HUGE fly-in fishing industry around here because it is so isolated.

I find that people often hear Ottawa and think Toronto, but the two are vastly different cities and environments. Toronto is very much your large urban centre with horrific traffic, highways for as far as you can see, etc. Ottawa feels like a much small city in comparison and the outdoors and greenbelt corridors are literally on your doorstep. I run allot of trails and about 500M from my door gets me into an area of old hardwood forests that runs from one end of Ottawa to the other, it’s called the NCC Greenbelt. It’s rare that I don’t see deer in there while running. Heck, you can actually hand feed them if you want. I almost got run over by a flock of wild turkeys there last year. It’s funny, you never realize how big a wild turkey is until it’s running at you! That’s just one area, there are loads of others. Gatineau Park over on the Quebec side is incredible and there are hundreds of KM’s of trails in there that run beside lakes, creeks, hardwood forests and waterfalls. These same trails are all used in the winter for cross country skiing and snowshoeing.

The fishing out here is vastly underrated (wild Brook Trout on the Quebec side, world record sized Musky within half an hour, Salmon and Trout on Lake Ontario, Bass until you are blue in the face, etc.), but that’s a topic for the Friday Free For All ;)

Cheers!

“I lived for quite a few years in a much smaller town in B.C. before moving to Prince George, but I have never felt the need to go to the website of that much smaller town to make comments to point out to the people there how much better off I am now and to pity them for living in the smaller town which is very isolated, at the end of the road and short of most of the facilities and amenities we enjoy here in Prince George”

And do you think that PG will be successful in attracting immigrants to the city you describe?

Oh and I don’t pity anyone. The vast majority of my friends and family live in PG and they love it. I’m happy for them. I also don’t think I’m better off than anyone else. I live somewhere other than PG now and it’s a better fit for me given the point I’m at in my life.

If you like PG, that’s great, be happy. If you don’t like it, try to improve it. If you want to experience something different, then seek that out. Simple isn’t it?

So getting back to the theme of the article, if PG is really trying to attract new Canadians to live there, what can they do? What sets PG apart from the hundreds of other cities trying to do the same thing? What are the pros? What are the cons?

Based on my 35 years of living in PG, here is my list of the pros:

1) A true four season climate.
2) Nice cool summers.
3) There are lots of outdoors activities to partake in.
4) There is lots of land available for purchase on the edges of the city if that is the lifestyle that people desire.
5) Good services and amenities for a city of PG’s size.

Based on that list, I’d say that PG should be trying to attract a demographic of people that are not accustomed to living and experiencing large urban environments. Maybe try and focus on those countries that also have resource intensive economies, northern hemisphere climates, etc. In short, try to attract people to which PG might seem like “home”.

If they want to focus on those people of Mandarin and Punjabi descent, what is their trump card to take them away from the cities in BC that already have strong Mandarin and Punjabi communities? Are there any prominent Mandarin or Punjabi PG residents who would be willing to work with this campaign to sell the community?

I could certainly be wrong, but I think PG needs to get back to basics first. Just focus on improving the reputation of the place, deal with the crime, improve the aesthetics of the city and find a way to address the air quality. If they can make progress on that, I think they’ll have a fighting chance to at least try and market the city. Until those issues are addressed, I think it’s a very tough sell when you look at the competition.

NMG: “If you like PG, that’s great, be happy. If you don’t like it, try to improve it. If you want to experience something different, then seek that out. Simple isn’t it?”

You forgot the often used approach of crossing your arms and complaining about every little thing, while offering no solutions or ways to improve the situation. aka: First world problems.

NMG: “Are there any prominent Mandarin or Punjabi PG residents who would be willing to work with this campaign to sell the community?”

Remember this Chinese prof in UNBC (Liang Chen)who made a complaint about UNBC and his union that the association breached its duty to fairly represent him and PG citizen ran a story on him:

http://m.princegeorgecitizen.com/article/20120706/PRINCEGEORGE0101/307069977/0/PRINCEGEORGE/faculty-association-not-a-trade-union-lrb-concludes&template=JQMArticle

At one point he was even in the UNBC senate. Whoever in UNBC who put the news in Prince George Citizen (Perhaps Michael Kellett) wasn’t thinking of the reputation of UNBC among the Chinese. I know the story of Chen and how he followed a guy called Leischner in PG and got into hot waters ….. PG has image problem …

“Before a Feng Shui practitioner deploys his Feng Shui skills, he must first know, what is the problem that he is trying to fix. “

W H A T is the P R O B L E M?