Just a question. Do we have the clientelle to fill all these hotels? Another new one going up across from the police station, the new treasure cove, the new four points, the new signature sandman and we need another one? I don’t believe in this “Build it and they will come”, because look at the struggle the coast and ramada have attracting people downtown. Are we slowly eradicating the downtown business section?

Once again the city seems to be jumping the gun and rushing into another development.
I don’t have any problems with a new hotel coming in to town, but why the big rush in this case?

How long have we known the 2015 games have been coming now… if a developer was interested in the location they should have submitted their proposal with enough time to go through the proper procedures.

Instead we get a special agenda for the first and second council readings, then barely a week’s notice of this public hearing. And then during the public hearing they cannot answer an obvious issue regarding the effects on the local traffic patterns.

So it appears we will have a two week turnaround from the time it was first brought up in council to the deadline for public comment.

Definitely seems to be a questionable process for a major development that will require an amendment to the Official Community Plan.

The residents of this area do not have a hope in hell to stop this unless you start fighting.

The city had a meeting behind closed doors – end of story – their minds are made up. Do you really think this city hall is interested in transparency?

So where were the people when Haldi residents were trying to inform all residents of this city that the planning department, mayor and city council are doing what they want? The OCP for this city is not worth anything for the people.

This city does not get it, more and more residents are fed up! It is because of vested/special interest groups that get this city to manipulate the OCP.

Was this parking lot not part of the parcel of land given to the city from the province for the use of the people of this city? Why would this area be any different than the Pine Valley Golf course area?

The traffic studies from this city are a joke.

Wake up people…..How many more court cases do we the taxpayers have to pay for?

This is frustrating!! As a resident in the area, it is insulting to be given 4 days notice to attend this session.

The parking is a huge oversight. People who attend concerts or events in the exhibition grounds overflow and often park in my driveway or in front of my yard and now there is going to be even more limited parking. When is the mayor and council going to learn that they need to listen to the community and involve us instead of belittling us and disregarding our opinions.

If we didn’t have enough accommodation or proper facilities for the 2015 winter games maybe we shouldn’t have bid on it to begin with…

Was this parking lot not part of the parcel of land given to the city from the province for the use of the people of this city? Why would this area be any different than the Pine Valley Golf course area?

This area is different because they learned their lesson and are making sure to streamline & accelerate the process to make sure it cannot fall apart this time!

I agree completely with these comments and concerns. They are all very valid and agree more notice would have been nice cor those who wanted to hear this and share their views. And agreed so much on parking! I love when they bring great events to town but when I attend I assume I will either have to walk blocks to my car or wait 15 minutes before I can even consider leaving the parking lot if I was lucky enough to get a space. Then add on the delay of the police check the set up to check each patron as they leave. (Not knocking the process of the police check, it’s annoying but I get it).

Western2 to answer your question I work in managment in the business/service industry and have worked in hotel management a few years back. I know it seems shocking but yes we do have the clientele for this. I couldn’t always tell you where they came from but MANY a times during peak seasons, sports events, and even sometimes just during tree planting seasons, fruit picking seasons (I know weird, who knew that drove traffic to PG) but many a time I had to make calls to Quesnel and Vanderhoof for our guests as not only was every hotel full but so were every dive motel and even B&B’s! We would often have clients fly in assuming there was vacancy only to then help said client find a taxi or bus ticket to leave PG to find accommodations! And unfortunately even though the Coast and Ramada are lovely it’s a noise and safety issue. My district manager and vice president of my current company refuse to stay downtown from too many bad experiences. This issue of course is way too multifaceted and there is no “one” solution but I know from out of towners views when they see us in headlines for crime and come here to see prostitues and drug addicts when they pop out for a quick beer at night, even if we know this isn’t a 24/7 daily norm they take it upon themselves to decide that it is and share their recommendation with their associates and friends :(

Eewok – why not try and contact the Haldi, the Dyke and Pine Valley people? You will have to move fast if your area means anything to you and your neighbourhood…. but good luck with that – most people in this city do not have the oomph in them to fight. I would not let the NIMBY attitude hold you back. Most people have been called worse…Lol.

Seriously? People are going to fight this too?

I see this as a good development on a useless piece of City land. Let the developers worry about ‘whether there is enough clientele’.

I would question the guy’s whole business plan if one of the two main reasons stated for a multimillion project is a onetime event lasting two weeks. Sounds more like a smokescreen to ram it through as quickly as possible.

As for being a useless piece of City land, as it sits now it is a useless piece of City Park land that once built on and paved is gone forever. With a few bags of grass seed, a few trucks of horse hockey pucks some shrubs and trees it could become a nice park for the residents of the area.

I think that it is wrong to have the OCP changes seemingly made at the drop of a hat. Is the damn thing written on a white board for their in camera meetings and each one given an eraser?

The Haldi Road people hit it bang on when they came up with “Neighbourhoods Matter” for their signs. There have been over a dozen changes this city has allowed that has a negative affect with people’s neighbourhoods in the past year by changing the OCP at whim.

IMHO that is telling me they do not give a damn about the average Joe in this city as taxpayers….

Its unfortunate the process… but I think its the perfect development for this piece of land, and I see it as a good news development that will enrich the visiting experience for visitors to PG and enable events at the Exhibition grounds.

As for parking I would highly recommend to the city they level down the old rodeo grounds next to CN Center to an open parking lot. Then during the games allow a portion of it to be used for those that will attend with their own RV’s. Its a large piece of property and could easily alleviate any of the parking concerns from nearby residents. If they could find a way to shunt that traffic out behind the Kin centers to Foothills it would be problem solved.

The hidden plan here, folks, is that with the Best Western moving there, their other hotel site downtown will be available to the City which will then allow the PAC to be built on that block.

The police station at one end of Victoria and the PAC near the other end.

;-)

I had posted previously that this is a strange place for a hotel unless it has a following. The Best Western has that, in my opinion, and could survive in what would normally be an unusual location for a hotel/motel.

The question is, where is the parking going to go that was identified on the master plan. Is the City telling us that they have other locations for parking on the site? Can they show us where that would be, or is that a big secret as well?

So, now that we have one hotel on that street, will others follow – on that city site? How about selling the works yard for some higher use? ;-)

It’s a good idea and location, but I’m worried about what it opens up in the future.
There is no restaurant with the hotel – what do you think the city will try to amend and rezone for in the future? Shooters across the street definitely isn’t a family restaurant, and Dominos is great for take out only. Where are these hockey and soccer teams going to eat?
There is a pool with a waterslide – doesn’t that take away from potential visitors to the aquatic center? Why would the city approve that?
There is no plan in place to replace the lost parking. As it is now, people park on 22nd and even try to park in my parking lot (townhouses).
Traffic – L&M is doing the traffic study, no surprise there. Lights are desparately needed now at 22nd and Ospika, hopefully someone pushes that through. And they should have a pedestrian light at the CN Center entrance.
There are too many unknowns with this City, and no guarantee that the remaining parkland will stay that way.

Great idea and I support it 100% This town has been stagnant for too long. Screw the downtown and it’s pipe dreams of coming back some day. With the exception of a few places in North America, the entire concept of downtown is dead. Get this development going and hinge it on completing the roads behind the CN Centre. Extend Foothills along the area that was originally planned 30 years ago. The Exhibition Grounds is not a jewel. Those old tin shacks and horse smells should be out in rural areas. Make this a good mix of sports/concert venue, accommodation, a nice park with amenities that people can use and improve transit down there to take pressure off the parking in/out.

People park outside of the main lots to get out faster. Those people would do the same if it was a theater, a Performing Arts Centre or anywhere else. IF a company wants to spend millions on making a gravel overflow parking lot into a hotel and take the chance that it may not be very busy, go for it. The only time that lot is even remotely used is when the JW convention is here and that is the new free campground (Walmart was full I guess).

Agree with JB. Let the builders worry about occupancy. Downtown is getting a new hotel already so the revitalization argument is weak. I think its great.

Haldi road residents were right, when they said the next big fight over the OCP could be in our neighbourhood.

If we don’t all pull together, the city will just think they can do whatever they want to— anywhere!

Just another lake of transparency by Mrs Green. 4 days notice for the residents of the area. hmmm

I like this proposal. I admit I don’t own property by that site though. I am more concerned about what will be built at the site of Highglen school. Apparently it isn’t worth repairing.

Can anyone answer who the actual owners or developers are for both this Hotel and the Delta Hotel downtown? Both projects seem like they have been guided and approved without the normal scrutiny and requirements. First the Delta downtown gets a gift of public land at only $30,000?; the design and layout are secretly approved after a year delay; and then construction starts by an out of town contractor of questionable status? Then the City carves away a key piece of parkland for a commercial venture; less than required notice to review a pretty picture; no traffic studies; no detailed analysis or requirements; a ‘done deal’ for the developer; and we don’t even know who the actual principals are for each project???
Something smells very fishy with both projects…that’s in addition to all the other tricks and deals going on with the City…and now they want to buy property outside the City to try and become real estate developers!!!
Is there something strange in the water at City Hall…or all these secret deals connected? I was always taught that you follow the $money…follow who is part of these deals, and you’ll find the real answers. I would love is somebody could actually tell the people of Prince George…who is behind all these deals? Who are the shareholders of the Delta Hotel project? Who are the developers or owners of the proposed Best Western project? Who are these future owners of land the City is buying 36 miles from City limits? When those questions have detailed answers, all the reasons why the rules and requirements normally imposed are not being followed, will become very clear…follow the $money!!!

Posted by: gus on October 23 2013 5:39 AM
The hidden plan here, folks, is that with the Best Western moving there, their other hotel site downtown will be available to the City which will then allow the PAC to be built on that block.

————–

Is it still a Best Western downtown? I thought I saw a different sign last time I was through there.

Its pretty hard to fight City Hall when they have all the information, and discuss these projects in **closed meetings**

Usually the proponents and the City Administration work on these developments for years (more or less) and then drop the bomb on the citizenry and give them a few days to respond. This doesn’t happen by accident, in fact, it is done on purpose to ensure that there is little or no opposition to the proposal.

A few public meetings in a short period of time, with the first two readings already approved, is hardly a fair way for the citizens of this town to have a say on this matter.

This is the point where we would expect our elected representatives to step up to the plate and let us know what is taking place, explain the pro’s and con’s of the proposal, and if the citizenry are not on board, vote to kill the project.

What actually happens is the Mayor and Council fade into the background, pushing administration to the front to field questions, and absorb the criticism, and then they go to the final reading, and **WALLA** the project is approved.

So I ask you. WHERE ARE THE ELECTED COUNCILLORS ON THIS ISSUE. WHAT DO THEY THINK, AND WHEN CAN WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM THEM.

I tried to book hotel space at the Coast in early Oct for a event I was putting on and it was full so I booked some over at the Ramada and had trouble getting enough rooms there. I am sure that the Delta owners researched room needs before they decided to invest here. I also agree that the Best Western over by the CN Centre is a good idea, it will clean up a rather unsightly area. As for restaurants, if there is a hotel built there, someone may open another eating place on site or close by. Family oriented I hope.

western2 states; “Just a question. Do we have the clientelle to fill all these hotels? Another new one going up across from the police station, the new treasure cove, the new four points, the new signature sandman and we need another one?”

Same concern I stated last week but in the context of a lack of housing starts because the more hotel rooms that are built, the more our city is encouraging fly-in fly-out employment to work camps.

The future northern workforce demand is expected to be 22,000 to 32,000, most of which will be workers living else where in the province and country. They will fly-in to PG, spend over night in PG before traveling out to work camps. Then they will repeat the process traveling out for days off.

Most will not build their homes here, and move their families here, which would expand our tax base. t
This is why we are having increased economic activity in the north will little increase to our city’s population base.

Not bad for someone who doesn’t think hey lonesome?

“They can not change their minds seeing we have a sign contract.” I overheard this at a council meeting that was having the public hearing for a project. A retired City Manager told me that they go ahead and sign all the papers then they let the citizens know and give give us public hearings as they have to by law and just to make us feel like we are part of the system.

RAS – the area is only unsightly because the city has not done any improvements according to the Exhibition Park Master Plan created in 2005. It’s actually quite impressive what they want to do, but of course nothing was acted on.

Sorry, thats HAS and not RAS. Me and my fat fingers some days…

You are right Peegee. The master plan was very impressive. The wording to the OCP amendment includes “associated commercial uses”. This can include such a variety of options but no specifics were given last night from the planning dept. The city should show the neighbourhood their true vision of what they have in store for that area. yes OCP’s need to be reviewed, but also neighbourhoods should have a say in the development and planning of their community. Not after the fact. Guesswhat is right. “Neighbourhoods Matter” and it is about time that city hall starts to treat neighbourshoods in a respectful and transparent way.

25 people questioned this proposal, again the vocal minority in this town has spoken and we should shut down this project immediately (hint of sarcasm here). Let this city grow, stop this not in my backyard attitude. If done right, this will be a great addition to this city not to mention a boost to the local economy and to the tax base.

A hotel, near the CN Center, soccer fields, aquatic center and kin centers. Only in PG would that be a bad thing. The naysayers on this are sickening. Move to Hixon if you can’t handle development. I for one could care a less if some biblical OCP isn’t followed. Like that plan had all the answers.

Grow up people, this is embarrassing.

This is great news for the city, a no brainer! The company is right, the location is right, the design is right. Just do it.

7500

If you want to see what a area looks like that does not have a proper development plan take a drive up the Hart from the bridge to Austin Road.I’m sure it is one of the ugliest stretches of road I have ever been on.
It’s reputation for people speeding is not because they are in a hurry but because want to get through the blight as quickly as they can and you can only keep your eyes closed for so long when blinking.