will this become the new hood in 25-30 years because of the hotels remote location and the start of redevelopment in the down town area?
Or will the four or 5 star rating always stay with this hotel chain?

Best Western is hardly a 4 or 5 star rating to start with. That requires amenities the Best Western does not have.

The Best Western is a bed at night, that’s it.

BTW, this hotel is positioned in such a way that parking is on the street side instead of behind the hotel. That is something contrary to the OCP. When one looks at the River shopping plaza on HWY16 West, one can see that part of the OCP in application.

I am, quite frankly, not understanding this “neighbourhood” argument for this proposal. Ospika from there on to Massey is commercial on the other side, and beyond that it is light industrial.

Which residents are opposed to this and why?

That being said, I do agree with concern about the rapidity that this is being pushed through. Why is there this hurry. Any idiot would understand that the Winter Games argument is just a guise. Nobody builds a hotel for 2 or 3 weeks of occupancy.

BTW, I have missed Skakun in action. We need some debate on Council, not a bunch of patsies!

Thanks Brian Skakun for speaking out for the average home owner. All of a sudden, out of the blue, “boom” a hotel to be built in such an odd place. Looks like it was planned on the back of a match-book. The idea to build this hotel near the CN Centre reminds me of a mushroom which suddenly appears on your lawn, it just doesn’t blend in. My understanding to grow good mushrooms, you need to keep them in the dark and feed them a lot of…well lets use the word “dung” – Sounds like our current city council, save one, which keeps it’s citizens in the dark and feeds them a lot of…”dung” :-(

Maybe build it out of wood. Brian for next mayer maybe?

Gus, this is the main concern:
The City should consider allowing other commercial uses within the
Neighbourhood Corridor designation at Exhibition Park that support and
compliment the park’s Special Purpose use and the Ospika Boulevard corridor,
with guidance from the Parks and Open Space Master Plan and Exhibition Park
Master Plan.

That was taken from the staff report to council recommending another change to the OCP. The Neighbourhood Corridor exists along Ospika, and up to the corner of 22nd and Ospika. What they’re proposing to do is subdivide the parcel of land that the hotel wants and extend the Neighbourhood Corridor designation to that property, allowing a hotel to be built. Now, in 5 years or so, when they realize that they need a restaurant close by, what’s stopping the city from selling off more of the Exhibition Grounds and developing a restaurant. Maybe even a strip mall. Staff could not tell us what this change will allow. If you would have seen the Exhibition Master Plan created in 2005 it shows trails and parkland on the property bordering 22nd Ave which is great, but with the way this city is going they’re likely to sell it all off. 22nd Ave is a quiet residential area, we want to keep it quiet.

None of our concerns were directly answered at the public meeting. I’m concerned about the loss of parking. During major events that lot is full, people are parking along 22nd, and I’ve had people try to park in my parking lot (townhouses). There are no plans to replace the lost parking at this time.
It’s hard enough to turn off of 22nd onto Ospika as it is now, we need traffic lights already. With a certain company doing the traffic study, how do we know what they report won’t be more favourable to the city in terms of expenses? For instance, no impact to local traffic so no additional lights required?

We were told that several sites were viewed, and they wanted this one. No mention of what other sites were looked at. I also didn’t realize that anyone could approach the city and offer to buy parkland, which is what this land is. A lot of people are saying that development is better than a dirty gravel lot that isn’t maintained, but isn’t that the fault of our city?

This is something that is being pushed through too fast, with not enough notice to the public, and no concerns addressed yet.

I think it is highly likely it will be built as a normal stick-framed wood building. It is only 4 storeys.

Don’t see too many motels built of concrete around here.

Now, if it were to be built of cross laminated timber panels for both floors and walls, that would be something unique, and likely more expensive as well.

BUT, a hotel like that could go up a floor a week for the structural part if one has a contractor and crew who are experienced at doing that.

I wonder how long the lead time is for manufacturing that in Penticton. If that would take off, we would need a few more plants in BC.

Canada is not much into panelized systems building anymore. There was a time in the 1960s that such buildings were built in the Toronto area. There has never been a market for systems building in residential construction as there is in Europe.

This impressive looking structure is going to cost 8 or 9 million dollars? If that is correct five (5) of these hotels could have been built for what was spent on the new RCMP headquarters!

Hmmm……

As I understand out hotels are at max compacity as it is. Every morning when I go to work the parking lot in all the hotels are jammed packed that included shareton treasure cove and sandman. So without a doubt need another hotel to accomadate people who actually want to stay in good old stinky bad air quality p.g.

Finally…someone with a degree of sensibility…and common sense!!!
Enough of all these secret dealings, numbered companies, gifts of public lands at unrealistic costs, how about some open and honest answers!!!
Does anybody actually know who the shareholders are of the Hotel planned for the Exhibition Park site? Are we going to find out after the fact? Why is it such a secret?
And what about the Delta Hotel…who is really behind it? Who are the shareholders? Who got the cheap land under the Street quietly sold to them? What about the out of town contractor of questionable rep?
What is going on with all these secrets and back room deals? I don’t agree with everything that this Council member does or represents…but at least he asked some questions…please…please, somebody fill in all the blanks!!!

I would like to know what the big rush is all about.

If they wanted a hotel in place for the 2015 Games, then the developer should have made their intentions clear when the games were announced, which would have given plenty of time to go through the proper process.

It seems to me that the council is doing everything they can to facilitate someone else’s poor planning.

How about telling this mystery developer

Thank you for your application, but unfortunately it has not been submitted within reasonable construction timeline to be ready for the 2015 games.
Also, the location you have chosen does not fit within the Official Community Plan.
Please let us know if there are any other locations you would be interested in, and we will be happy to assess their suitability. We look forward to your updated proposal and thank you for your interest in the City of Prince George.

Parkland is parkland even if it is a gravel lot right now.

Is the Signature Sandman parking lot full every night? No! Will this motel not have a restaurant built in? Or will Shooters open up a family restaurant again?

I have a lot of money and want to put a heliport in Ginters field! Why not it’s just a wild unmaintained field!

I bet the guests will love hearing the PGX going on all day long until 11PM.

Why not on the corner of 20th and Opsika or beside the pool? It’s only grass and the people that come into town for soccer and swimming events won’t have to walk as far.

A motel there doesn’t fit period!

Why are people so concerned whether it will be full every night? Let the developers worry about that. They clearly think there’s a business to be had there. Why does the peanut gallery feel the need to second guess them?

As for the location, I think it’s a great one and could fuel some other development in the areas (other restaurants and shops).

If PG wants to try and host hockey and soccer tournaments, then this location is a no-brainer.

As for Skakun, well, he’s just being Skakun.

Council has historically been accused of not being business friendly. If we let a few voices shut this proposal down, that reputation will continue.

Build it. If it doesn’t work out we can always relocate the Haldi Road Recovery Centre to there. Closer to more amenities. Win win. Haldi Rd. folks get their neighbourhood back and the hotel on Ospika then will serve a potentially new need. With an O C Plan no longer needed, (just used as a guideline) I don’t see a problem. Recovery centre patrons don’t really need a lot of parking spaces. What could go wrong?

This is just a casual observation, but the Official Community Plan seems to get amended a lot. I know they are meant to be fluid, but more like silly putty, not mercury.

Otherwise, what’s the point in having a plan?

“Council has historically been accused of not being business friendly”

Council has been business friendly for decades. People around here just do not know what that means. They have rezoned, and rezoned, and rezoned …. and changed the OCP whenever it is needed to rezone.

This is one of the quickest and underhanded one I have seen.

You are not exactly stupid JB. You know as well as I do that the damned Winter Games doe not make a hotel viable. That is just playing games with people who are too stupid to understand that and you are not one of them! So don’t pretend you are.

PeeGee’s points are very valid. Along with the master plan for the Exhibition Grounds, which I saw when they came out, Planning should have looked at the corridor and thought outside the box for a while. That is what COMPETENT planners do.

There is nothing wrong with short term stay accommodation on site. I, quite frankly, never thought someone would be interested in that.

Quite frankly, I do not know what is driving this.

The Best Western is next to the old police station at the moment. I would not hold it past the City to have looked at the police station being on prime property.

Who is to know that there is not a land swap in the works here? Perhaps they were even offered the police station property … tear it down and get the Best Western to stay downtown with a new building.

We simply do not know what goes on when the real estate expert is in charge of planning, do we?

The Best Western downtown is now called Econo-something. Don’t know when the sign changed.

I don’t know that the exhibition grounds is a bad place for a hotel, it might be nice to have somewhere close to the sports amenities nearby for people to stay. I wonder why use the parking lot though? What about the unused land right on 22nd and Ospika? Would that not be better?
My issue is the speed and apparent secrecy that this is being put through with. It makes me suspicious. Why all the undercover negotiations within the City administration? We could be better prepared to debate the pros and cons of this, and several other projects, if we had more information?
We need transparent government.

Put it behind the multiplex where the ice oval is then. A lot of bush there too and the guests could pet the horses. That is probably going soccer fields one day too. Nevermind!

I think this has been handled poorly by the Mayor and Council. They should have a decent consultation period and more time for review. I am very pro business, but shoving things down peoples throats never works well.

Losing faith? That ship has set sail.

gus: “Council has been business friendly for decades. People around here just do not know what that means. They have rezoned, and rezoned, and rezoned …. and changed the OCP whenever it is needed to rezone.”

You know as well as I that the OCP is a guideline. It is not a legal binding document.

gus: “You know as well as I do that the damned Winter Games doe not make a hotel viable.”

I never said it did. Expand your horizons beyond the Games and think of some other events nearby which might make it work, at the soccer fields, the CN Centre and exhibition grounds, and the hockey rinks. Anyway, who are you or I to determine whether a hotel is viable? Private investment dollars think that the site is potentially viable enough to at least investigate further. It may not even get past the proposal stage.

This and other pieces of parkland should cost the developer two to four times the amount than land already zoned for commercial use. Then they would stop going after the parkland, but we never know what they pay to the City as the City does it in camera and it should be public knowledge.

In light of the claim that this hotel is needed for the Canada Winter Games, I am curious as to what the proposal for the games had to say about accommodation. Surely the proposal addressed both the availability of the necessary athletic facilities and the availability of accommodation for those attending the Games. I assume that the Games would not have been awarded to Prince George if adequate accommodation was not expected to be available, so the proposal must have claimed that it would be. Was that a lie? Was it true at the time but no longer true? If so, how did the situation change so rapidly? Or is there in fact sufficient accommodation? And if the CWG proponents knew that there was not sufficient accommodation, why are we only hearing about the need for more now? This whole business seems fishy.

More generally, kudos to Brian Skakun for raising this issue.

The proposed hotel seems to cover areas that are used by PG Ex and Carnival participants trailers, as well as the Baisakhi celebrations. Where are all these events supposed to go?

There are plenty of other and better places for this hotel to go.

Skakun:”We are being told we need to build a hotel here for the Canada Winter Games and it has to start right away in order to be completed.”

The Winter Games have nothing to do with it! They will go ahead whether the hotel is built or not! Obviously it is a done deal, full speed ahead!

We need more Skakuns.

****PEOPLE LOSING FAITH***

That could very well be the understatement of the year.

The fact that land sales are conducted in closed meetings, and the information is kept secret is one reason why the City can get away with this kind of BS.

At the very least other people in Prince George should have had an opportunity to purchase this land if in fact they knew that the City was going to sell it. Are we to believe that all parkland in the City is available for purchase, and all that is necessary is to make a proposal to the City, and we get first **dibs** on the property,. Highly unlikely. So it seems certain people with certain projects, can get parkland, and other land from the City, while others can’t. Hmmmmmm.

There is property directly across the street from where they want to locate this hotel, between the forestry buildings and the pub. Did the proponents try to purchase this land??? Perhaps the **deal** from the City was too good to pass up.

Once the sale of this land is finalized, we can, if the City does not give us the sale price, get this information through the BC Governments Land Office. This info is only private until the deal is finalized.

I’m going to guess that the developers first name is John. Enough said.

Try this scenario–take the block that the “old police station” is located on, swap hotel locations, close down a gas station that probably has reached the end of it`s underground storage tanks lives and buy/expropriate a professional building and VOILA— a downtown site for a PAC||||

Try this scenario–take the block that the “old police station” is located on, swap hotel locations, close down a gas station that probably has reached the end of it`s underground storage tanks lives and buy/expropriate a professional building and VOILA— a downtown site for a PAC||||

Again, Skakun is acting in the interests of the taxpayers and citizens of Prince George. The rest of Council and Mayor, are herded like sheep, by the business community and City Hall administration, otherwise know as the PG bureaucracy. We, the taxpayers, will have to wait until November, 2014, to hopefully elect a more competent Council, free of most present members but keeping Skakun to act in our interests.

JB writes “You know as well as I that the OCP is a guideline. It is not a legal binding document.”

It must have some legality if the Haldi rd residents won in the Supreme Court of BC the first time around. We await and see what the ruling will be the 2nd time around.

Thank you for that observation which people like JB have no understanding of.

I just took the time to review the 2005 master plan for Exhibition Park as it relates to the current proposal.
========================================

Exhibition Park Master Plan, 2005, page vi
In managing this park over time, it will be critical to remain faithful to the objectives developed and supported by the interest groups and the public. Often, large parks are looked at as potential sites for new facilities. If Exhibition Park is to have a park-like character, it cannot receive any new facilities that would occupy the precious little green space that is included in the Master Plan.

Exhibition Park Master Plan, page 17
Parking capacity per proposed plan, not including parking within the agricultural precinct, is 3,248.

Exhibition Park Master Plan, page 20
All non-city-owned lands within the area east of Foothills Boulevard, south of 18th Avenue, and north of 22ndAvenue (except the parcel at the northwest corner of 22nd Avenue) to be incorporated into the Exhibition Park boundary.

Exhibition Park Master Plan, page 24
Any new ancillary commercial uses within the park e.g. restaurant, are to be located within the footprints of existing buildings and their immediate surroundings, i.e. not penetrating into landscape areas.

these words bear repeating:

“In managing this park over time, it will be critical to remain faithful to the objectives developed and supported by the interest groups and the public”

Of course we all know that City Councils in the past 2 decades have shown time and time again that they do not understand the notion of remaining faithful to interest groups and the public. That is why we have such a sprawling and poorly developed city.

I think what may have happened here is that a Best Western franchisee was looking for a site to build a new hotel. In that process, someone like the real estate guru at City Hall said, “have I got a deal for you” …. and the rest is history.

We spend a lot of money in this city for guidelines.

Strange that KPMG did not catch that cost saving.

From the Local Government Act

“875(1) An official community plan is a STATEMENT OF OBJECTIVES AND POLICIES to guide decisions on planning and land use management, within the area covered by the plan, respecting the purposes of local government.”

If the government had wanted the OCP to be a guideline it should have written that part of the Act as follows

875(1) An official community plan is a GUIDELINE TO DEVELOPING OBJECTIVES AND POLICIES on planning and land use management, within the area covered by the plan, respecting the purposes of local government.”

Anyone doing any planning and managing in any credible organization sets policies and objectives with the intent of achieving them, and the intent of being measured on those policies and objectives. Only fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants organizations have no policies and objectives or fail to achieve them on a regular basis.

So, the objective in this case is the 2005 Master Plan with specific statements of objectives contained in it that deal with such matters as what is appropriate development on the property.

Viewing the objective as a guideline and changing it, several other objectives will not be met. In fact, in my opinion, in order to respect the original objective one cannot simply ignore it, one must address it and determine how it could still be met or how the new objective is superior to the old objective.

I do hope the public is aware any proponent is able to meet with the mayor or anyone else for that matter at city hall in regards to private communications of any business they wish to develop in this city.

The problem is there is no communication of anything except when there is a done deal to the public after the fact…..

The people of the Haldi Road area stepped up to the plate not once but twice on the shenanigans from city hall and tried to inform all citizens that anything goes with this city.

Whether it be the OCP or a Master plan both documents were costly to the taxpayers.

The planning department appears to be for the developer and will assist in anyway possible. – which to me appears they do not work for the citizens of this city.

Funny how KMPG never caught on to the amount of court cases that have and will be against this city.

Strange the city or KMPG never catch on the legal savings if these documents were to be followed more closely.

Gus – city tried to do just that after the first Haldi court case if I remember rights. They rewrote only one section of the OCP and not the remaining other sections to be consistent.

Where does the rewriting start at? Would it be the planning department? Would it be the legal department at city?

Maybe the citizens of PG should be pushing for more of the heads of certain departments be accountable?

Maybe one councillor has half a clue. This is such an out of the way location for any ‘tourist’ amenities. Just seems typical of how this bunch seems to operate. Can’t wait for the next elections!!!

^^^
One problem is, an election will not rid the administration of incompetent people……..

But a change of council can have a significant impact on administration. Let’s change the makeup of the city council.