Prince George Council’s Latest 40 Million Dream
City Council of Prince George seems bent on trying to add yet some additional debt on to the shoulders of the taxpayers with the move to make the construction of a new Performing Arts Centre part of the five year capital plan.
The total cost of the project is estimated at $42.5 million dollars and speaking to Council, Chairman of the Prince George Regional Performing Arts Centre Society Ken Kilcullen, says the Prince George taxpayer will not carry the full financial burden. The power point presentation says 25% from the City and Regional District, 25% will come from the federal government, 25% from the provincial government and 25% from equity partners, and fund raising.
If we look at the past you will find that the Charles Jago sports centre at UNBC receives a $300,000 subsidy , due in most part from the fact that the money promised from the feds did not materialize. The Performing Arts Centre Society predicts that in year 5 of operations, the City would be giving the Centre $300 thousand dollars, but they are calling it a "management fee" instead of a "subsidy".
The Council might also want to look to the community of Quesnel which tried to raise private donations to build a multi plex in that community . That attempt fell short and along with it, the taxpayers voted the project down.
Let's look further back at the Art Gallery. It was to be built with private contributions and again with contributions from the senior levels of government. That didn't develop and we, the taxpayers of Prince George got handed the bill.
You could just see the move afoot at last night's Council meeting , sell the Playhouse land, and use that, along with some other land sales as the catalyst for the development . Using that tactic might allow the City to get the money without facing the wrath of the taxpayers in a reverse petition.
How do we speak to the Council of the day that we want them to quit spending money , we are tired of increases in taxes, the cost of services, and additional charges being fostered upon us under the guise that we have not been paying a fair share.
The Core Review had the City looking at selling off assets like the Four Season's Pool, Pine Valley and yes, even the Civic Centre and now there's a push to build something else?
If the council feels that the PAC is a project that the public wants in this city, put it before the taxpayers as a referendum in the next civic election . Let's see if there is an appetite for the spending of yet another $42.5 million in this city.
The RCMP haven't moved into our last 40 million dollar dream and we are off looking for another one.
I'm Meisner and that's one man's opinion.
Comments
Lets get rid of this “debt” they keep taxing us for and repair the roads and infrastructure that badly need it. I dont mind paying a bit more tax if it means improving the city, but with the way our city is at this time, building yet another fancy, overpriced and under-utilized building would be pointless. We need to improve what we already have instead of adding to the pile.
Maybe a math lesson is needed for council! Let’s call the amount needed to operate the city is “Y” and the taxpayer is”X”. Every time Y gets bigger you must either the increase the number of X’s or X pays more. Now here is the lesson the more X has to pay it becomes less attractive to live in this city
From the 2012 PG Annual Report
“Principal long-term debt (including capital leases) outstanding was approximately $104.4 million at the end of 2012 ($87.2 million General CapitalFund, $13.2 million Water Capital Fund, and $4.0 million Sewer Capital Fund), compared to $98.1 million at the end of 2011.
“The Fortis BC (formerly Terasen Gas Inc) capital lease of $41.0 million is included in 2012 long-term debt.”
Since the Fortis BC capital lease is actually an investment for which we get a return at the end, as well as, by now, a net return each year in lease fees from Fortis BC, it should not be seen as a debt. It is a net asset with over a $15 million net payout above the investment generated by the end of the term.
The actual net debt at any time would be in the order of $60 million.
As I keep saying, it is a forced saving and a forced lid on total borrowing power.
Finally, it really does not matter if we cannot get money from the Feds or the province for arts facilities. If they prefer to fund for civil works type of infrastructure upgrading, that works too. That simply means we can count on the senior governments for that. Whenever we get some, we reassess the situation and hopefully will be able to get rid of some of these asinine “user pay” scams such as the storm water financing proposal. In addition, we may be able to reduce the tax levies, such as the one for the winter games and any other that might be infrastructure related.
So, the senior governments pay for core services, and we pay for the lifestyle services. It all works out the same in the end.
The thing is, there is a fundamental problem in this country with respect to who needs the money for essential service maintenance and who has the power to tax for such services. We need to fix that. Just as the province gets part of the income tax pie, cities need to get part of that as well. We should not be depending on political benevolence depending on the way the political winds are blowing in a particular city. The province does not, why should we?
“Now here is the lesson the more X has to pay it becomes less attractive to live in this city”
Here is part of that lesson. Figure out how much your house costs wherever you wish to move to which is better – Kamloops, Kelowna, Nanaimo, Surrey, Pitt Meadows, etc.
If you move to one of the Atlantic provinces you will have made a good decision. Times are now changing so that people can actually find a job there.
You might be surprised at the level of tax you have to pay in any of those cities for a comparable house. In the west and central part of Canada that comparable house is likely going to be more expensive ands you will be paying the same or higher taxes for that comparable house.
It all boils down to that I would like to determine how I spend my money and not have the city’s hand in my pocket removing cash and making spending decisions for me.
Seems we always have the same people promoting projects like the winter games, PAC, etc, who have no thought as to the struggle of homeowners to fund these increasingly lavish expenditures.
Referendum is the only fair method. Put the PAC on next years civic election ballot. Let’s also see where the candidates stand on the issue of the PAC.
“It all boils down to that I would like to determine how I spend my money and not have the city’s hand in my pocket removing cash and making spending decisions for me.”
Me, me, me, me ….. become a hermit if you cannot stand communal living. ;-)
gus, I think that the majority of citizens believe in communal living and as such the community should have a say in how spending should occur, not the way this city council of dictators forces the citizens to spend
The provincial government knows that PG already has several great venues for the performing arts and does not NEED at this time a new expensive venue! Good luck with trying to persuade Victoria to come up with some cash! The Harper government is on a desperate mission to attempt to have a balanced federal budget in time for the election in 2015. It has cut funding for all kinds of things, including funding for the arts! In fact it is about to close 27 veterans affairs offices and it has changed veterans pensions in order to save money, and the list goes on!
Good luck with trying to get millions from Flaherty at this time!
Not a peep from Bob Zimmer or the other invisible MP!
Time to put this on the shelf for future consideration!
recall mayor and council.
If the plumbing under the roads of this city is that old and failing then the priority is there. I wouldn’t choose to not replace the furnace in my home in favor of a Hawaiian vacation. Where is the logic here?
The total cost of the project is estimated at $42.5 million dollars and speaking to Council, Chairman of the Prince George Regional Performing Arts Centre Society Ken Kilcullen, says the Prince George taxpayer will not carry the full financial burden. The power point presentation says 25% from the City and Regional District, 25% will come from the federal government, 25% from the provincial government and 25% from equity partners, and fund raising.
Common sense dictates that if you are paying taxes to the City of PG you must have some form of taxable income, thereby, those paying taxes to the City are also paying taxes provincially and federally!
Give it up already!!!
In view of the fact of failing aging infrastructure which needs to be repaired and maintained and keeping in mind that already a large percentage of taxes collected goes to servicing the existing debt it simply has to simmer down and stop acting as if it has twice the tax base that it actually has!
Can it for now, please!
“Now here is the lesson the more X has to pay it becomes less attractive to live in this city”
This is a flawed argument because you are assuming that the additional cost does not return any value. What you should be looking at is the value for money and that comes down to the ability of the city to manage it’s budget and deliver services that the population desires.
I pay quite a bit more in property taxes in the city I’m living in now and I can say with absolute certainty that it is more attractive living here than in PG.
Looks like democracy took a back seat to a special interest group at city hall in Toronto. I’m sure we here in PG can top that.
“Looks like democracy took a back seat to a special interest group at city hall in Toronto. I’m sure we here in PG can top that”
In a recent poll, 72% of people in Toronto said that Ford’s refusal to step aside was not acceptable. 62% said they wouldn’t vote for Ford as mayor under any circumstance.
I’d say that the democratically elected council actually did what their constituents wanted and that the 2 brothers with the last name Ford are the special interest group. How ironic!
The timing couldn’t be worse? The failure of the core review to save money just cost the city workers moral. I agree with whom ever said that the current infrastructure is aging and desperately in need of replacement such as the 4 seasons pool roof which I understand didn’t meet an engineers approval? The downtown fire hall is how old now? We just built two RCMP facilities that were needed and deserved but did they have to be so elaborate? Don’t even get us started on the snow removal which is what the citizens want and need at the top of their list. We have one year to vote in or out our council members, Let your vote speak for you
“We just built two RCMP facilities that were needed and deserved but did they have to be so elaborate?”
TWO??? I know of one only that the city built and is most certainly far too elaborate.
“a special interest group at city hall in Toronto”
Right!!! Do you call those who know and understand the Council Code of Practice and want everyone to abide by it a special interest group?
I mean, one has to be a bit on the nuts side to claim that Rob Ford is not hurting the image of Toronto and the image of Canada. The guy is delusional.
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=c0f738379bac0410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
“The Criminal Code of Canada also governs the conduct of members of Council.”
“This Code of Conduct applies to all members of Council (including the Mayor).”
Lets stick with the FACTS. The new police station cost $38.9 Million dollars, HOWEVER all this money was borrowed over a 20 year period, so in fact we will be paying almost $80 Million dollars for this facility. So lets call it an $80 million dollar monolith, and quit referring to it as $38.9 million.
City Hall is funneling money into the Capital Project Fund as we speak, and in few years will have a sufficient amount to fund their portion of the PAC.
We need to expose what is actually taking place as opposed to what they want to you to believe is taking place. This is a job for the media, and an indepth analysis as to how this venture will be funded in needed.
I’ve got a dream too! It involves some people who don’t even bother paying lip service to the principles they expounded before getting into office, leaving it before 2015 comes. I wonder whose dream will come soon first.
The 2012-2013 elected members of the Board of Directors are:
Ken Kilcullen (Chair)
Colin Dix
Debora Munoz
Don Bassermann
Elizabeth MacRitchie
Jim Cluff
Keith Carlson
Les Waldie
Lisa Redpath
Kirk Gable
Valerie Giles
Administration:
Sarah Kirk
Tara Bogh
I am sure you will recognize one or more of these names. :)
Palopu wrote:
“Lets stick with the FACTS”
Good idea!!!!
“The new police station cost $38.9 Million dollars,”
Okay … I won’t quibble with that; close enough.
“HOWEVER all this money was borrowed over a 20 year period, so in fact we will be paying almost $80 Million dollars for this facility.”
Okay, here is a mega order of magnitude difference between my fact and your fiction.
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The City borrows from the Municipal Finance Authority. Go o the site and learn how it works and what the ending rates are as well as other charges. 3.52% at the moment for 10 years, then renewable in 5 year increments which are at lower rates at the moment.
Working it through at 3.5% over 20 years the total is about $54million, not $80million a difference of $26 million which we can pay the City’s portion of the PAC with and have some to spare for some asphalt.
Sure glad you’re not the finance officer at the City!! ;-)
NOW!!!!! I never want to see that amount of $80 million again as a cost of the RCMP Station.
http://mfa.bc.ca/clients/long-term-borrowing
Guesswhat …. all those Board members do not get paid.
The “administration” is not an expensive item … they might do about a week’s work each for the year, if that.
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