5466 days till the games? is that clock right?

Watching this negotiation through the media has now become somewhat humorous. The so called negotiation expert hired by the City has not achieved anything other than a real nice salary from the taxpayer via City Administration. So nice in fact, that Administration is embarrassed to tell us the taxpayer how much we are paying for this dis-service. The essential services negotiation is going equally as poor I see. I am beginning to wonder why the City spends in excess of a million dollars annually for their HR management staff, and something as basic as essential service levels cannot be achieved. They must be embarrassed and really worried about their next departmental performance appraisal. The City Manager may want to look at value for money spent here.
I see that they (Employer and Union) are now publicly bickering over who will or will not come to the bargaining table. If they cannot even manage a negotiation process, there is no wonder why we struggle to effectively manage the day to day operations of this City.
On a lighter note: CUPE locals 1048 and 399 may want to consider amalgamating after this negotiation and become Local 250.

It appears that the Citys vision is to “break the union”….and if Janet Bigelow doesnt get moving quicker they may do just that! The longer this drags out the worse it is for the workers IMO. Queen Green is trying to shore up her resume before her try at Provincial Politics and shes going to use the Union as an example of her toughness (Arrogance) but what astounds me is that Bigelow just keeps dragging this out week after week, month after month, they’ve already went over a year at 0% so either have the cones to Strike…or just settle!

Should the union have to take another strike vote it would have no response that is why the one day strike in December to avoid this stuation. Bigelow has no bargaining experience and neither does Campbell and the city is very aware of this. Neither of these leaders want a strike so they keep dragging this out.

After the last sweetheart deal, 0, 0, and 2 is more than fair.

One should lead by example:

1) keep the promise to achieve a 10% savings in each and every department!

2) keep the tax and fee increases for the next three years at 0%, 0%, 2%.!

This will also apply to salary and salaried benefit and salaried pension pay conditions.!

Taxpayers currently pay over $42 million per year + benefits, which includes such perks as guaranteed jobs, paid banked sick time and gold plated pension plans. The last deal saw them get a 16% increase over the last five years while everyone else was tightening their belts. Why should they live high on the hog on the backs of the general taxpayer who is doing everything to cut costs?

The only question is, how much more are taxpayers going to have to fork over to keep CUPE happy?

JB asks: “The only question is, how much more are taxpayers going to have to fork over to keep CUPE happy?”

Answer: given that CUPE could be going for 1%, 1%, 2% over the next three years, and postulating that our personal taxes only account of 40% of city revenue… I would say we would only have to pay .04% of a negotiated increase of 1% increase per year.

Now if you want to talk about a waste of taxpayer dollars, can we move the discussion along to the topic of OIL and Gas Corporation subsidies amounting to $1.4 BILLION dollars from our Federal tax dollars?

Oops.. my bad… that should read “personal taxpayers would pay .004% of a 1% increase, if I have my decimal places correct, and I believe they are now!

0,0,2 and 2 would have been an acceptable deal . The last contract was great considering what happened to the global economy. As a cupe worker I suppose i should be in favor of a raise but feel that at this time, we can go without. The economy is getting better but we still have a ways to go. We need people to move to Prince George to increase our tax base, easing the burden a bit off our current tax payers. Wondering what the mayor can do for us there?
One of the mentioned comments about gold plated pension plans definitely is laughable. There is nothing gold plated about it. The money I pay for my pension gets invested so , if all goes well , i can accumulate enough interest to live when i retire. I imagine this follows suit for most others pensions in different lines of work also. It’s unfortunate that people comment on things in which they get their information 3rd hand and passed it off as their own . Perhaps they can’t think for them selves .
The people I work with share the same opinion as far as the unnecessary need for raises. Lots of frustration and as a result, low morale. I am hoping that both union and management side read this , so that you are aware of the mental and physical impact you are having on workers.
Figure it out!

I thought that was the offer that was voted down by the union – 0,0,2,2 or am I missing something?

Posted by: People#1 on January 4 2014 11:40 AM “Oops.. my bad… that should read “personal taxpayers would pay .004% of a 1% increase, if I have my decimal places correct, and I believe they are now!”

Actually taxpayers would pay 40% of a 1% increase if their taxes accounted for 40% of the total gross annual income to the city. That does not translate to .004% of the total annual income as the CUPE members do not get the entire annual income as salary.

Your methodology is false though, if the total CUPE payroll was 40 million for example the increase would be 400,000. But the total revenue of the city on other fronts does not change to accommodate this so the entire increase or 400,000 would be added to the tax burden of the households and businesses paying property tax.

Hate to start another post but another way to look at it is (for simplicity sake numbers are not correct):

The ‘City’ takes in 100 million annually
CUPE payroll is 40 million
Taxpayers pay 80 million annually
Increase to CUPE payroll is 400,000
Taxpayer revenue increase is 320,000 of 400,000 (80%)
Other revenue increase is 80,000 or 400,000
Other revenue does not increase to support their portion so taxpayer pays for their 80,000 portion (20%)
Taxpayer pays 320,000+80,000 of 400,000 increase or 100% of the increase

“Taxpayers currently pay over $42 million per year + benefits, which includes such perks as guaranteed jobs, paid banked sick time and gold plated pension plans. The last deal saw them get a 16% increase over the last five years while everyone else was tightening their belts. Why should they live high on the hog on the backs of the general taxpayer who is doing everything to cut costs?”

Yawn!……do you have any new retoric to spew Johnny as your starting to sound like a broken record, some points for originality ya know. Facts are a wonderful thing, GOLD PLATED pension plans eh? Are you confused with Federal senators.

Ralt73 put it best – “One of the mentioned comments about gold plated pension plans definitely is laughable. There is nothing gold plated about it!”

Exactly! But bear in mind that Johnnybelt would like city workers paid minimum wage so that he could boast he makes more than them, thats whats really eating him….he tried to get on with the City, couldnt and now rails against them as overpaid (When in FACT he is wrong) because he’s not happy with his pension. Misery loves company. Johnny seems long on wind and short on facts. The city of Quesnel just gave its workers a healthy wage increase DESPITE the largest sawmill in town (Canfor) closing down for good. The roads in Quesnel are atrocious….But PGs workers are overpaid?!

This ones my favorite,

“Why should they LIVE HIGH ON THE HOG on the backs of the general taxpayer who is doing everything to cut costs?”

LOL what an moronic comment! As though city workers are all living high on the hog, Yes of course your right johnny, they all drive Mercedes and have huge homes with boats and never worry about $$. The reality is if taxes go up CITY WORKERS PAY THEM TOO. Their the same folks trying to balance a budget, put kids through school, buy gas, shop in our stores, use the pools and icerinks. The only ones living HIGH OF THE HOG are the upper management who are making 6 figure salaries….otherwise do your homework or wake up!!

Posted by: Captain Slashpile on January 4 2014 4:33 AM “5466 days till the games? is that clock right?”

The timer goes by the start of the games minus your computers clock. Adjust your computer to Jan 4, 2014 and it should read 404 days.

I did a test changing my comp to 2013 and I got 769 days remaining so your clock must be set almost 14 years slow, or your CMOS battery is dead and it reset to the day your motherboard was built.

Rait73—-Congratulations ! You are the first poster on this site that actually admitted to be a city employee.

And you accomplished this feat without an entitled tantrum. Hats off to Rait73.

If every city employee was as level as rait73 sounds I doubt we would be in this mess.

People, weren’t you just complaining about the topics being changed inthe comment sections and now you try to tie this to oil?

Depends on how you look at it interceptor; a discussion on increasing our taxes to pay out subsidies to Oil & Gas Corporations, or a discussion on increasing our taxes to pay for higher union wages and benefits.

Hint: the common element of discussion in both is the “raising our our tax rates”, just so happens I would rather see my taxes go into working people’s pockets rather that my taxes going to support corporate welfare!

Typical Lib-Con misplaced priorities, no problem supporting tax breaks for multi-billion dollar international corporations, but whine and complain about putting our tax dollars to work locally!!!

Anyone else getting tired of these whining nancys complaining about the little sliver in their finger, while they have a huge stick in their eye?

slinky; everyone nd their dog is complaining about how we can’t afford any increase in CUPE wages, so lets stick to the 1% increase.

You are correct; a 1% increase = $400,000, since revenue share is approximately 40% personal taxpayer and 60% business and industry, the residential taxpayer portion of that $400,000 increase is $160,000!

That’s it; we taxpayers will have to pay $160,000 of that $400,000 increase, and still we have the targeted nitpicking whining and complaining. The City Communication Department alone comes in at $500,000… yet the chronic complainers on this site continue to whine about a $160,000 increase in CUPE worker wages.

Complaining over a small sliver, all the while there is a huge stick in their eye.

knowledge: “But bear in mind that Johnnybelt would like city workers paid minimum wage so that he could boast he makes more than them, thats whats really eating him….he tried to get on with the City, couldnt and now rails against them as overpaid (When in FACT he is wrong) because he’s not happy with his pension.”

Look at ‘Einstein’ trying to be Columbo. No, I have never tried to work for the City. I have a good job which pays fairly well. My compensation (and any raises I get) are based on my performance. I don’t get paid for sick days I don’t take. I am just a taxpayer who has had enough. Clearly, ‘Einstein’ hasn’t had enough yet.

People: “You are correct; a 1% increase = $400,000, since revenue share is approximately 40% personal taxpayer and 60% business and industry, the residential taxpayer portion of that $400,000 increase is $160,000”

Uh, No. Those costs will be downloaded onto the taxpayer. If you think business will just voluntarily eat those extra costs, well… you’re naïve (to put it nicely).

And yes, hats off to rait73. One of the most reasonable voices I’ve heard from the CUPE side. And he’s an employee. Too bad there aren’t many others like him.

JohnnyBelt, your hilarious, your own words state…My compensation (and any raises I get) are based on my performance.I have a good job that pays fairly well.LOL
So to me that mean you have a low paying job & you suck at it! LOL To bad you couldn’t get on at the city.

This is a country where people have the right to form unions and associations to promote their interests and negotiate compensation for the work they perform, in the form of wages, benefits, pensions and job security.

Obviously the workers achieved their present wages and benefits by lawful bargaining.

If they decide that striking is the only option left to them, so be it. If the employer doesn’t like the way the negotiations are advancing the employer can give notice of a lockout.

This is a bargaining process which is lawful and legal.

Let them work it out without laying biased blame.

“JohnnyBelt, your hilarious, your own words state…My compensation (and any raises I get) are based on my performance.I have a good job that pays fairly well.LOL
So to me that mean you have a low paying job & you suck at it! LOL To bad you couldn’t get on at the city.”

Well said moosepoop LOL…..Someone just is envious of the wage/benefits others have…dont even need to add anything to that!

So, Knowledge88, please explain why you think city workers are so damn special, and why their wages and benefits should exceed everyone else. And please don’t use Canfor as a comparison.

Maybe you could also explain the last city/CUPE contract. The union leader that signed off on the 5 year deal with increases every year was turfed. The membership obviously didn’t think that was good enough.

Let me ask the question again. Why do city employees think they are so damn special ?

Posted by: Knowledge88 on January 4 2014 7:35 PM
“JohnnyBelt, your hilarious, your own words state…My compensation (and any raises I get) are based on my performance.I have a good job that pays fairly well.LOL
So to me that mean you have a low paying job & you suck at it! LOL To bad you couldn’t get on at the city.”

Well said moosepoop LOL…..Someone just is envious of the wage/benefits others have…dont even need to add anything to that!
—————————————

Except the fact that none of the ‘raises’ for CUPE are based on performance

Posted by: People#1 on January 4 2014 5:23 PM
slinky; everyone nd their dog is complaining about how we can’t afford any increase in CUPE wages, so lets stick to the 1% increase.
—————————————
Horse pucky. In 2011 they needed to raise an additional 1.3 million which resulted in an increase of $85 for the 2/3 city portion of the tax bill per average home in Prince George. Do the math, 400k is 31% of 1.3 million. 31% of 85 dollars is 26.35. For each 1% increase residential rates will rise 26.35 annually compounded forever, 2% 52.70, and so on.

The PAC would raise taxes about the same +/- 35.00 per year and you see the ruckus on that one

What it comes down to is industry and commercial owners are at the tipping point so it rests on residential for increases. Here is a famous quote from council;

“We really wanted to make sure we were bringing forward the best option,” city finance and audit chairman Coun. Murray Krause said. “We’re trying to minimize the impact on residential [properties], but the burden on others was just to high.”

2014 will see the same song, same dance, same increase. Properties went up 2.5% on average because the VLA dropped like 10% – our assessment went up 4.7% over last year.

Middlefinger,

Please tell me where Knowledge88 says that City workers are special? Did you read the same post as me? It astounds me that if someone thinks that our City Workers are doing as well a job as they can under the circumstances that they do not deserve a modest increase. Your post is vague and when you state “Their wages and benefits exceed everyone else’s” who exactly is EVERYONE ELSE? The city of PG workers are paid higher then some other city’s, and lower than some other city’s. If you have the right to denounce them I don’t see why you get so upset that someone else has a different viewpoint.

ty. yes i have an old POS laptop. the reply was appreciated :)

slinky states; “What it comes down to is industry and commercial owners are at the tipping point so it rests on residential for increases.”

Sorry the facts do not backup your statement, in fact year over year Major Industry, Light Industry and Business tax rates have fallen in PG since 2011, only the residential tax rates have increased year over year since 2011.

Page 11 of the attached document:

http://www.initiativespg.com/Documents/IPG_2013CommunityProfile.pdf

Since 2011 this pro-business Mayor and council has been busy REDUCING business and industry tax rates, while INCREASING residential tax rates… go figure!!!

CrysBaron. I didn’t recognize your post without the entitled tantrum. I imagine the city is not much different from other organizations in that some of the employees deserve a raise, but most don’t.
So Quesnel got a wage increase. Why don’t you move to Quesnel. You can still do your crying on 250 from there. But I guess if you are such a skilled employee and in such high demand, you should be able to take your act anywhere.

And how much of an increase are you looking for anyway ? 0.5%, 1%, 2%..or more ?
Why don’t you tell us what it is you do and what your current rate of pay is. Then we can draw some comparisons. Just because you are breathing and have a heart beat does not qualify you for a handsome yearly increase.

CrysBaron; I like your comments. Has anyone else noticed, that once again the city union bashers just keep going on and on about how the union workers have more licorice than them (so to speak). Whah, whah… I’d say it doesn’t matter what town you live in, there will always be people that make more than you; get over it, suck it up!! Quit complaining that the city union workers make more than you the bashers.

They are quick to criticize, quick to have comments, quick to quote numbers and they dig deep and search hard to post youtube videos and other documents to show how much the city union workers make and how little they make. Again, boo hoo!! You keep saying to the union staff that if THEY don’t like it, to quit. I’d say to you union bashers that if YOU don’t like how much they’re all getting maybe YOU should be the ones to all quit your crappy jobs.

Too bad the bashers just took their jobs and had to settle for the scraps that were left for them. Envious that the city union workers got to the job interview before they did?

The bashers must also be just too depressed about how little they make; they will NEVER admit to where they work. IMO you’d think that those bashers who seem so big on themselves and use this site to make themselves look all important and savvy that they’d be more than happy and be more than proud to post where they work. They could use their comments then to set the example of either how bad they realllllly have it, or if they really do like their jobs and won’t quit, then stop complaining that others make more than you!!!

Get over it! Move on already !!

LOL….hey Hello? I work for the city. What do you do ?

Moose: “JohnnyBelt, your hilarious, your own words state…My compensation (and any raises I get) are based on my performance.I have a good job that pays fairly well.LOL
So to me that mean you have a low paying job & you suck at it! LOL To bad you couldn’t get on at the city.”

Uh, no. But thanks for coming out, sparky.

It’s total BS to suggest my comments (and the people who agree with me) have anything to do with jealousy. Basically, they’ve run out of things to say and are grasping at straws.

And to say that City workers cost $42 Million + benefits per year isn’t rhetoric, it’s fact. Some people hate having that number brought up, and it’s no wonder.

If CUPE wants a raise, then they should have to reduce staff or find the money to fund any raises, and not by digging deeper into everyone’s pocket.

stay home dad – two kids, and wife works at department store.

Pimply faced student living in my parent’s basement, still studying for my political science and econometrics exams.

And CrysBaron claims to work at a sawmill….

I think the negotiators got it all wrong. We have a serious issue with the process in how workers are called out IMO. A proper core review should have looked at the issue of utilization of employees.

IMO it would be much better if we had the bottom half dozen or so employees not guaranteed full-time work, so they could be on call reducing overtime costs. Maybe even hire a half dozen more CUPE workers then, so the city could ramp up on weekends and such when needed for things like snow removal, water main breaks ect. Most businesses already work like this to avoid overtime pay on weekends.

I think a ban on paying out overtime would be a good idea. Force them to bank the overtime for time off when approved or not needed, and then hire more employees for better flexibility. The process should also involve a flattening out of the chain of command structure as well to reduce the pricy management salaries.