Snow Removal Flop The Result of Several Issues
There are a host of things behind the poor snow removal for the later part of 2013 and now in the early going of 2014.
The City decided earlier that the amount of snow that falls before it is removed would be increased as a cost cutting measure. That may be well and good, problem there is that not all parts of the city receive the same snow fall and many parts suddenly find themselves with streets that are barely passable. We are paying an increased levy for snow removal in 2014 , that however doesn't mean you will get better coverage than before.
The other problem is the matter of trying to get enough equipment from private contractors to move the snow at short notice. Many of these contractors who had relied on the city work in the past, have found themselves far too busy to look this way as a result of the increased activity in logging, mines, etc. Simply put, why would you wait around for the city to come calling on occasion when you can find immediate work elsewhere?
One Engineer once remarked to me that we can have it down to the pavement after a snow fall if we have enough equipment and enough employees to do the job. In Prince George we don't , plain and simple.
Snow removal while we have been paying more and more each year, has not been a poster child for the City Council which has its mind set with other projects which are more sexy looking and more long lasting.
If we want extra snow removal then the city has to move some of that money which has gone into suspect ideas into the snow removal budget.
There is no magic bullet for snow removal but to repeat oneself , if you put enough money into the pot we can have the job done and done well very quickly.
In the past there have been all sorts of comparisons made between other cities and their snow budgets, we even sent a previous Mayor to China (why by the way I'll never know) to see how they did it, . We have attended the Winter Cities meetings to tell them how good we perform snow removal, problem is no one has talked to the rank and file.
If we need more equipment and more personnel to do the removal, then start shifting some of those "savings of up to 10% in every department" into an area that the city taxpayers want, snow removal.
Instead of spending money on pie in the sky programs such as the Core review, the study on the PAC, a lawyer to handle our labour negotiations and some folks to tell us how well the city is doing at snow removal, put that money where it is needed most, on the ground to hire staff or buy equipment to clear the snow.
I'm Meisner and that's one man's opinion.
Comments
I am surprised they never used teh feeble excuse that we had three stat days in the mix as well….
I never seen a snow plow on any major road, ( 5th, 15th, Tabor, Carney, Ospika) for over a week….and then it melted , and now froze and the ice ruts are such a thrill.
I wonder, if we get our PAC,will the roads will be cleaner so people can get to it?
This is Prince George . We get a good 4 plus months of winter .Wouldn’t it be nice to have decent roads to drive on not only for us locals but for people passing through that wonder why we would live in this hell hole .I would like to hear talk about ” man that PG has the nicest streets in the winter ” instead of the negativity that is usually associated to our bad road pulp smelling little town .Don’t get me wrong as I always defend my home town , but it seem I have less and less ammo as the years go by . I like the reference to 10% off every dept to go towards snow removal .Please city hall , give me a reason to commend you instead of complaining about the city streets
“One Engineer once remarked to me that we can have it down to the pavement after a snow fall if we have enough equipment and enough employees to do the job. In Prince George we don’t , plain and simple.”
I agree with Ben.
Its all fine and good to cut, cut, cut but once you’ve cut that final straw its hard to put the bale back together. My belief has always been hire enough people and equipment to do the job. Regardless if they are city staff or contract staff…
Amazing that council could/would not cut their 8 councilors because they NEEDED their input and yet cutting the staff and equipment in streets is okay?
Part of the problem in getting contractors is the utterly ridiculous restrictive contract they have to sign to be able to work for the city. Get rid of that and many more would be willing to work for the city when needed.
Lets move into the 21st century – for under $500 per machine we can put on GPS equipment trackers and see where every loader, grader and truck is at any given time. Make the map visible live on the city website. No more finger pointing, no more belly aching – instead of speculation everyone will see if / when the equipment is out and where they go first. If the city is dispatching properly (as they say they are) and the workers are actually working (as they say they are) then there should be nothing to worry about.
“and the workers are actually working (as they say they are)” – I have personally seen a grader, loader and 2 dump trucks parked for over 1/2 hr in the cul’d’sac at the end of our street taking a “coffee break” at 2:30 in the afternoon. After that they proceeded to leave the area without finishing the cleaning to head back to the compound. How do I know they were going back to the city yard? Because about 15 mins later I had to go downtown and I passed them all heading into town. I can only assume their shift was over since they didn’t finish their job on our street. If I had know the circumstance I would have gotten the machine numbers and phoned them in. Blatant stealing of taxpayers money.
i’m not sure if snow removal machines are able to do anything with what we have out there right now, but my street, and most others, are almost impossible to even get onto from ospika blvd because of the massive 10 inch ice ruts at the intersections. my car bottoms out and i’ve seen suvs bottoming out on these ice monsters. can’t the city just put the blade down a bit to shave these bastards down? i haven’t seen a machine out there since the last snowfall.
askum, I definitely agree with you. i’m an ardent defender of pg, but sometimes it gets hard to explain why i live here. the biggest issue with living in pg is not the weather, the environment, the people…plain and simple, the worst thing about this city is the City of Prince George.
“askum, I definitely agree with you. i’m an ardent defender of pg, but sometimes it gets hard to explain why i live here. the biggest issue with living in pg is not the weather, the environment, the people…plain and simple, the worst thing about this city is the City of Prince George.”
I’m going to mull that statement over Mikmak, before concurring or not but, but I think you may be right.
An ice blade with a good operator would do a ‘world of good’ out there right now. The main problem with side streets–they didn’t do anything during the big thaw!! Now we have to crawl through the streets hoping we don’t break our suspensions getting to the main streets! So—slow down!
There was a vehicle on Killoren Cres. riding the ridges (southbound) doing about 3 kph and slipped off these ridges spinning him sideways. I was heading north driving as far to the right as possible so he never slid into me but could have if I wasn’t hugging the side of the road. And this is a bus route. Maybe they could fill the ruts with water at night to even out the ice?
if only someone could organize everyone to withhold their utility and property tax payments until the city starts spending more responsible. The biggest weapon the city has in order for it to get its way, is that we are not all ants who can work or operate in a cohesive manner. They say, the power is with the people, but that really isn’t true since people can’t get along long enough to make positive change to anything. If people were smart or had common sense, why would thousands go off to some distant land and kill people they have never met because one (1) person tells them to? Think about it.
I live in Quesnel and used to complain about our city snow removal. After being in PG a few times during the winter, I no longer complain about my city! The way I see it, the roads in the condition they are in after a large snowfall and subsequent melt, is downright dangerous, and maybe the city needs a law suit or two to make them wake up and put more money back into snow removal. Not enough equipment and employees? That’s absurd, it’s money that is the issue, the city just won’t admit it. If you want to have a well take care of winter street, better buy a home near the mayor!!
Maybe when the city gets behind on plowing they could hire YRB to help if there aren’t enough contractors available? YRB does a good job of the highways that run through the city.
Maybe they could fill the ruts with water at night to even out the ice?
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LMAO!!!!! Sorry, I just pictured a zamboni going up and down the streets instead of a plow.
Oh and I think Ben pretty much nailed it.
Green, Gaal, and Jones, as far as the condition of the roads go have reached their ultimate level of incompetency.
Maybe Green doesn’t have a car and rides around on a broom.
I think a Zamboni and ice skates would be much safer out there today. I live in town and the streets are not only deplorable but they are very dangerous. I feel for the people who have to walk. Sheri Green, I never voted for you as mayor. I knew you didn’t have it in you to do a good job. I know.. if I don’t like it here I can move. I am aware of those comments. I just hope someone comes forward to run against Scary Sheri and treat the hard working people of Prince George to snow and ice free streets every now and then!!!
Huh wrote: “The biggest weapon the city has in order for it to get its way, is that we are not all ants who can work or operate in a cohesive manner”
Bang on!!! I wonder if Ben could put a few of us together that could form a ratepayers’ group that would give the City a run for their money in a similar way that PACHA first did?
I’m in. Is anyone else? Just post here and we’ll find a way to communicate and meet somewhere to discuss the possibilities.
There are other issues, but snow and the lack of street maintenance by the City may be what could “break the camel’s back”.
The notion that we have a mayor who wants to get rid of the people think she is not serving them well, rather than removing herself, could be another issue. That notion has to be nipped in the bud before others take on the same attitude.
“on the ground to hire staff or buy equipment”
Great idea Ben, spend millions of dollars on extra equipment and hiring people with a no lay off clause in their contract for the 12 days a year that they are needed. Did Crazy Willy’s staff the store for the 12 days of Christmas and let them twiddle their thumb’s the rest of the year? Might have been the case and that is why the doors shut.
Do you not think a first step would be to look at the equipment and people we have and make sure we have the right mix and are using them in the most efficient and effective manner?
The Engineer you spoke to must have been an idiot, if you have enough people each with a teaspoon they can move a mountain but that does not mean that is the best way to do it.
It would not be a stretch for a good Process Engineer from industry to assess the city’s snow removal plan, equipment and manpower, make recommendations on how to significantly improve how it is done. The one time cost would be money well spent.
Hey I saw some graders! they were doing the back alleys in the Quinnson Area, on Friday…. they look pretty smooth :)
I don’t know who does the thinking in regards to this?
Had my road plowed on Saturday. They came back and did it again today.
Who exactly is it that is allowing snow removal equipment in this city to plow a two lane street entering a curve suddenly change it into a one lane street after the curve?
Whoever you are you should be fired. You’re an incompetent moron!
Comment Posted by: 9429 on January 6 2014 12:07 PM
Maybe when the city gets behind on plowing they could hire YRB to help if there aren’t enough contractors available? YRB does a good job of the highways that run through the city.
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Again the comedy threads are over there—->
Good to see some people get my dry humor!
Again the comedy threads are over there—->
Are you pointing to the ads ….. I would be more careful ….;-)
Process engineer??
Those are typically mechanical or chemical as well as bio-chemical engineers who develop industrial processes. No experience in moving overburden â in this case snow and ice â from the roads to areas where it can be stored temporarily or for the full season.
Any good project manager with some practical experience in the area of road maintenance would suffice. Any well qualified professional engineer would get very bored with such a job, in my opinion.
With that in mind, one should apply that knowledge to understanding how some similar sized cities carry out a relatively simple annual function successfully. One starts with setting a reasonable standard. Clearing all the streets after a 15cm snowfall over a cycle of one week is simply not an acceptable standard. Two days, with 3 days after a major snow dump of say 20+cm might be acceptable, although most cities with similar or greater annual snow falls do it more quickly.
We have recently seen one of the other reasons why it should be done quickly. Leaving slush on the roads that is 10 to 15 cm deep and allowing it to freeze solid is simply not a good idea for both quality of driving surface as well as economy reasons.
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