I’m Looking For An Explanation On Our Utility Bill
We are constantly told that Prince George has the lowest "taxes " in the province. Invariably someone says look at the comparison between cities.
That prompts the question, what is the utility bill for property owners in the Regional District of Greater Vancouver, which includes Surrey and Coquitlam?
A new $240 million dollar water tunnel is being built under the Fraser River to supply water to the district. The project is to be a user pay system. The average priced home is listed at $725,000 dollars. The average family will pay, according to the district, $423.00 for drinking water, waste water treatment, and solid waste management.
Now we do know that we pay extra for snow removal and we are soon going to be paying for a storm water utility, which in effect is a tax on the water that comes off of your roof and enters the storm sewer or ditch around you. We also know that because of the nature of our water supply that we will never need to have an elaborate water system in place such as they are building in the lower mainland. That should mean that we pay less, far less for our water than say , the Greater District of Vancouver, or for that matter, most communities in the Okanagan.
So we pay $995.44 dollars a year for our utilities,(before the addition of the storm water utility) which begs the next question, is the City of Prince George painting an unrealistic picture of our tax bill because utilities are not included in what residents must pay annually?
While the increase in the tax requisition this year is supposed to be just 2.5%, let's not forget that with the elimination of the utility bill early payment discount (10%) the bill for many residents already jumped 10% in one year, and the utility bill has increased nearly 90% for some residents in the past 6 years ( see previous comment).
Even if you set aside the difference in value of an average home, which by the way if improperly used reflects on what the final tax bill will be , I still am looking for the answer in the utilities section.
I'm Meisner and that's one man's opinion.
Comments
Silence is the way City Hall relates to its residents when it comes to taking their money. What a sad state our local government is in!
I’m sure part of it is the area being serviced combined with the low number of people being serviced. High population density will drive the per person cost down. In major urban centres with high density, this could have considerable impact.
Want to improve? Double the population and move them all into the bowl. Want to stay the same or get worse? Keep pushing new subdivisions and new infrastructure requirements onto the edges of the city.
50 million bucks a year for PG city employee’s salaries isn’t going to magically appear out of thin air. Our population base is stagnant at best yet we keep giving more and more to keep our over bloated bureaucracy afloat. You want to save money? Stop giving it away.
Is there any negotiation possible for roof drainage that never sees the storm sewer system? Our roof drains into downspouts and onto the soil. It never gets near the storm sewer. Maybe we should charge the city for watering the tree on the road allowance that we water along with our lawn.
Move outside of the city limits, end of problem…..at least for now.
No, there is no negotiation possible. I called the City asking why I have to pay the new fee as it is physically impossible for any water to run from my property into any city storm sewer or ditch. It was explained to me that regardless of that fact everybody has to pay because the whole city storm drainage system is in need of urgent repairs and if one lives in the city one has to cough up the dough. For the plan to measure roofs and driveways I could not get any reasonable explanation, so I believe it is a red herring.
The proposed Storm Water Utility is nothing more than a thinly disguised tax grab by the City. It is not by accident that it (if passed) will come into effect in 2016, just after we finish paying for the Winter Games. This will allow the City to keep the same amount of money rather than giving us a reduction once the games are complete.
We were led to believe that paying for the games would be a one time cost. Now through slight of hand, this tax will continue as a Utility tax.
Did anyone note that we had a huge snow fall this season, and a fairly quick melt, however we did not have any serious issues with storm water run off. We are being **hosed** by the City of Prince George.
The City can access money from the Federal Gas Tax fund, to fund repairs to storm water, along with what they already collect, they should have sufficient funds to carry on without this increase.
Hopefully Council will reject this proposal.
I think Sherry and the Councilors (sounds like a bad rock band) should go to China and check to see how they would fix the problem . I’m not saying they have to come back…..
What we need is a total clean sweep of city hall an put some people in there that are going to work for the people an not better them self’s.
Well said Palopu!!!
This fall when the civic election campaigns begin, ask the people running for council if they are for or against this proposed storm sewer tax, and also while we’re at it, ask where they stand they on the performing arts centre. The city tax section of my wallet is wore out from the constant need to reach into it and give more money to this City. I want to vote for people who can find ways to spend less, and therefore my wallet will last a little longer.
We’re playing catch up. All of the infrastructure we have in this City needs to be maintained or it will crumble. And as axman said, $50 million + benefits just to pay for City staffing has to come from somewhere.
What is the plan for paying off the City’s debt? Nobody seems to want to talk about that. How much more do we want to ring up on the City credit card?
And if you think voting out the current Mayor and councillors will make this problem go away, you’re dreaming.
Pay any tax on sewer storm drainage -unlikely- still do not have sewer and run-off from the roof of the house goes onto the lawn.
As for asking anyone running for any position on a topic – one needs to have the response(s) written down on paper as their word is worth nothing.
JohnnyBelt. Perhaps its the City staffing and benefits that’s keeping us broke. Maybe we should be looking at these costs.
Furthermore what makes you think we are not paying down the Cities debt?? All the money borrowed is being paid back on a yearly basis, and over time the debt will be paid. The CN Centre should be paid soon, with the new swimming pool not far behind.
The real problem was the City borrowing $20 Million for a **goofy** police station over a 20 year period, and of course the $2/3 Million for their new offices on 18th Avenue.
If we stop the City from borrowing then the debt will come down just through payments.
We need to get rid of some Councilors, but not all, and I believe we need a new Mayor.
Not much point in throwing them all out and starting fresh, because who knows what kind of a miss match we would get.
Doing a comparison between PG and the lower mainland is not appropriate. The lower mainland has over 2.5 million people living there and PG has about 80 thousand. The costs of utilities in the lower mainland is spread out over more people compared to PG, in which lowers the cost per household. This is an example of economies of scale. The larger the customer base, the lower per unit cost.
In Ben’s comparison, is he comparing apples to apples? Is he using including the exact same services listed for Vancouver as he is for PG, or did he include other services provided by PG? He is not clear on that.
For a better analysis, comparisons need to be made by similar cities (population, land area and density). The only 2 cities in BC that could be similar is Kamloops and Nanaimo.
The biggest problem that PG faces is the continuous expansion (new subdivision and shopping centres) with little to no population growth. The larger the system to provide water, waste removal, snow removal and road maintenance will increase and so does the cost. With no real increase in population, the cost per residence will have to increase to maintain the same level of service. because we all know that a decrease in service levels is not acceptable.
“And if you think voting out the current Mayor and councillors will make this problem go away, you’re dreaming.”
Well, the problems mentioned are just a few of a whole well-known list! The people will decide in November. Hopefully some candidates will step forward with the courage and positive conviction that changes for the better can be made instead of just trotting along in the rut of mediocrity and doing things the same old way.
All the problems are man/woman made, they are not forever cast in stone. We ought to elect people who have a vision for positive change and the courage to implement it!
At least we should give it a try, unless we think a defeatist attitude on our part is the safer and more comfortable way to keep going!
And as much as I’m not a fan of current council, today’s problems happened over decades of neglect by previous councils, and they’re stuck having to deal with it. If I ran for council, I’m afraid I’d probably stick with most of the increases, because there is no choice in the matter, the infrastructure has to be maintained and rebuilt where appropriate.
What would be nice, is if current council would show more respect to current tax dollars, by toning down silly trips to China, conferences, and on nice to have projects, but not needed, until the real problems are fixed.
@PrinceGeorge, I am a realist. I also can’t control how people vote. As long as people realize that costs continue to rise no matter what administration is in place, people can temper their expectations.
I don’t want to have to say “I told you so” again about this time next year. Or, then again, maybe I do. ;-)
Point well taken, JB! I didn’t say that I expect the taxes and fees to decrease with a new council. There is inflation. Let us restrict increases to the rate of inflation. Then, look at the priorities about the spending of the revenue pie!
Must have vs. wish list. There is a lot of room there for creative changes and getting real value return for the money spent.
There is a saying that if one sets one’s expectations too low – that is exactly what one is going to get.
The council’s motto should be: Ask not what the citizens can do for me, ask what I can do for the citizens.
PG: “There is a saying that if one sets one’s expectations too low – that is exactly what one is going to get. “
Or… by setting your expectations low, you’ll never be disappointed. :-)
PG: “The council’s motto should be: Ask not what the citizens can do for me, ask what I can do for the citizens.”
I think you have it backwards. I think people should be relying less on government at all levels to solve all the problems. Heavy reliance on government services have driven costs up, and those costs aren’t going down.
People are talking about a user pay system for the storm sewers. If we want to go that way, fine, but I would be careful what you wish for. There are lots of things we all pay for but don’t necessarily use. Why stop at strom sewers?
JB: ” Heavy reliance on government services have driven costs up…”
I live in the city. City services include water, sewer, garbage pickup, snow clearing, sand sweeping, streets, sidewalks, street lights…bylaw enforcement…wait a minute, I am thinking…policing, fire protection. That’s it!
I am relying on those because I do not even have the choice to opt out! So you tell me how I can rely less heavily on those and avoid paying for them with taxes and fees! BTW, I don’t mind paying for them because that is how our society is structured!
Council is hired and paid for by us, including the mayor. My expectations are much higher than the present results. Are you suggesting that some of the services should be contracted out to private industry?
The lower mainland does this and we do that. You can’t compare the lower mainland with P.G. Dave Wilbur said that “we need more people to come to P.G. in order to lower taxes”. I’m still waiting. He wouldn’t lie to me while standing in front of a crowd during the last election campaign at the Ramada in once upon a time, would he? And if it helps may I recommend the city install water meters in the rebuilt storm sewers in front of every ones house to be fair when it comes to taxation?
Dave Wilbur said that “we need more people to come to P.G. in order to lower taxes”
If that’s the case, y’all better start churning out babies.
;)
I guess people just don’t get it. This whole Storm Water thing is a line of BS.
The City wants another revenue stream and the best way to get it, is to implement a Storm Water Utility tax. Don’t forget that a portion of our taxes already go to storm water and have been for years.
Do we have any indication of the amount of money spent on storm water over the past 10 years. I doubt it. Do we know how much will be paid for the next 10 years. I doubt it.
People like JohnnyBelt and Prince George just blindly follow the line from City Hall, falling under the misconception that they always tell us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. They don’t. While they do not outright lie to the populace, they do lie by omission, which is just as bad.
When I mention that the City can use the Gas Tax Fund to pay for storm water, I get no response. Is that because (as I suspect) most people don’t know bugger all about the Gas Tax, and the fact we will collect over $30 Million in the next 10 years.
Ask the City what their plans are for this money for the next 10 years, and see if you can get an answer.
Palopu, if you spent a little less time hurling insults and jumping to conclusions, you might find that I agree with you.
The City is horrible at handling money, no question about it. There is not a lot of accountability. There is also no question that it costs a lot to maintain what we have. We simply cannot have it all with low taxes. We fell for that line under Kinsley, Rogers, and now Green. Who will be next?
@Palopu, I’ll be looking forward to seeing your name on the ballot next municipal election. As one of the biggest critics of the City and its operation, surely you have the financial wherewithal and leadership to turn the situation around.
Let me state emphatically (as a final comment) that I do not think that Pal’s comments were insulting or accusatory – it is just a different opinion, that’s all, in my opinion! Perhaps he/she knows a lot more about what goes on at City Hall?
Cheers!
I see that no one is complaining that the northern development trust is spending tax money to advertise on this web site!
Where is the concern for tax money when its going into Bens pocket?
JohnnyBelt. I probably could make a bit of a difference if I chose to run for Council, however why should I????
We elect and pay the Mayor and Council to do the business of the City. If they fail to do so, it is up to us to bitch, bellyache, and complain. Having me or others run the City, is a cop out.
I much prefer to demand satisfaction from those who taxpayers pay to do the business of the City.
As Thomas Jefferson (President of the USA) stated. Governments yield to pressure, and it is the responsibility of citizens to apply the pressure.
So you can see where I am coming from.
To follow your line of thought if I am not happy with the taxi service I should drive a taxi. If I am not satisfied with the service in a restaurant I should become a waitress/waiter.
Have a nice day.
Palopu: “To follow your line of thought if I am not happy with the taxi service I should drive a taxi. If I am not satisfied with the service in a restaurant I should become a waitress/waiter.”
That’s quite a jump in logic, but not unusual considering the source.
I agree with Jim13135.
Glad that I do not have to pay all these stupid taxes and fees anymore , special for services I do not need.
Just wondering, what will happen, if Prince George will have a dry summer and no rain, still for all the house owners a storm water fee?
Dave Wilbur said that “we need more people to come to P.G. in order to lower taxes” —
What a joke is that, who wants to move to Prince George? Very bad air, potholes, high taxes, useless overpaid city staff.
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