Kudos to the teachers…… wouldn’t it be great if teachers still taught for the selflessness of children rather than for greed. I know i am going to regret saying this but really everyone is going to pay for all this crap. The children will suffer with their education and these children are the future! it is very frustrating! there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what has been offered…….. there have been a lot of unions bargaining and they have all been given way less than what the teachers have been offered. Stop being greedy get a new job if you don’t like but don’t hurt and punish the children and the future. (remember they will be running your retirement!)

So the government first rips up the legal binding contract and wonders why the teachers are upset… who wouldnt be. Second they kept saying families first with the campaign promises and I guess that means increasing class sizes, cutting back on teachers aids so the quality of education decreases..

A signing bonus ..aka bribe

Children learn from example. So they say. Should be a very interesting “next” generation.

They’re already here, Harb… after 30+ years of this from the BCTF.

Another day off for the kids.

I am a right winger by heart, but that is a bit of bullying. Either you sign by the end of the year, or we will take 5% off.

Give them the six year, 13%. Support the LNG project in return.

“I am a right winger by heart, but that is a bit of bullying. Either you sign by the end of the year, or we will take 5% off.”

Kinda like “give us a raise or we will go on strike” eh? ;)

“Children learn from example. So they say. Should be a very interesting “next” generation.” Harbinger

I sure hope so…

I hope our children learn to stand up and fight for something they believe in. Wouldn’t want our kids to learn that even tho you think something is wrong and perhaps that wrong was even ruled against twice in a court, their voice is of no use and is something they shouldn’t stand against. That our kids take away that standing up for themselves is one lesson a great many of these anti-teacher armchair pundants would role over and take because it is the easy way out. I hope they learn that no matter what the odds (Big Government) that their voice is valuable and that they have the right to express it. I hope that they are encouraged to go into the world with the lessons learned that if they believe in something, no matter how small they feel, that they can make a difference.

So what part of this is “for the kids”?

Talk to your kids and find out! There are too many in the class! The kids don’t get the help they need .

“Talk to your kids and find out! There are too many in the class! The kids don’t get the help they need .”

NoWay, I talk to my child all the time and my child has amazing support and teachers with any issues there have been … so I think that it really depends on the teacher/school ethics if they are willing to really truly be there for the children and help them succeed.

With the size of the classes today the only kids who get the teachers attention are the ones behaving inappropriatly or the special needs kids. The ones who pay attention and do their work get ignored or are on the bottom of the list as the teachers dont have the time..

the moose.. if you only understood the situation you wouldnt be so ignorant of the facts.. As for learning by example.. the kids are learning that if you believe in something you should stand up for it and not let the government not break the law when they want to.

rotating strikes ……… til June 22/14 whereupon the teaches will go on their summer holiday and resume this crap in September

interceptor, I don’t think it is working in good faith, when you start threatening wage roll back when your entering a union negotiations. Only permissible reason is if the payer is in dire straights and the employees need to do it to have a job.

The province is not doing that bad. I think it would be wise to do a long term contract. Even a 6 plus 3 year option.

So sassay you talk to one kid and that gives you your overall view, wow easy peasy.

For all you critics have you ever talked to the teachers on the issues or just hide behind your keyboards.

How come those thinking the pay and benifits of a teacher are so great are not jumping in for the easy life. Oh right another 7 years of schooling, takes a bit of initiative.

HeSpoke: “interceptor, I don’t think it is working in good faith, when you start threatening wage roll back when your entering a union negotiations.”

“Good faith”. The rollback is to account to for the duties the teachers are not doing due to their current ongoing job action.

From Wikipedia: “Kudos (from the Ancient Greek: κῦδος) is acclaim or praise for exceptional achievement.”

Sasssay, first you are praising the teachers (kudos to the teachers) but then you continue by saying:” Stop being greedy get a new job if you don’t like but don’t hurt and punish the children and the future.”

Hmmm.

Boo to the teachers. Getting high pay and have lots of benefits yet want more and more. Give them a mile and they take many more. Obviously the union (and some of the teachers) are not focuses on the childrens future but padding their own pockets.

“Union president Jim Iker says they’re moving to Phase 2 of job action because the provincial government has made unfair wage demands and is unwilling to offer any improvements to class size or composition.”

Ok Jim, so put your cards on the table! Tell us, the taxpayer, what your Union is demanding this time around??

Seems it’s smaller class sizes, then smaller class sizes and then again smaller class sizes!

Then it’s more prep time, more prep time and more prep time!

And of course, it’s more benefits, better benefits, benefits improvements!

Last but not certainly not least, wage increases well beyond the realm of reality!

Before every jumps all over me, I’d like to add that it’s high time for open and publicized negotiations so that we know exactly what the government is putting on the table and what the BCTF is demanding at the table!

Without that information, we are all just offering our opinions and blowing smoke out of our butts!!

Someone in the last article about education made the comment that the problem is double dipping by private schools and I want to take an opportunity to address that error.

Below is from BCTF. It shows the Ministry of Education – funds a maximum of 50% of the normal amount to a private school, leaving the shortfall to be picked up by tuition paid by the parents. Private schools receive no funding for capital – i.e. the actual building.

If every kid, as BCTF would like, who is in private school, decided to go to public school, it would cost the provincial tax payers about 275 million dollars. So in a sense, private schools in theory have made this money available to public schools because the province doesn’t have to pay it out.

A possible outcome is that private schools are growing, and the kids that are leaving the public schools, are the ones that are easier to teach – likely because their parents care, making the job that much harder every year, hence a requirement for smaller class sizes, to deal with the higher percentage of difficult learners.

BTW – I’m not saying parents who send kids to public school don’t care, but your child is in an environment that is ever worsening, and they’ll need your support even more, as their teachers are sidelined dealing with problem children.

Funding allocations
There are 72,014 students enrolled in 347 BC independent schools in 2010–11, representing 11% of all K–12 students. Of these students:
• 78% are in Group 1 independent schools, which are funded at 50% of the local school district’s per-student operating grant;
• 20% are in Group 2 independent schools, which are funded at 35% of the local district’s per-student operating grant;
• 2% are in schools that are not funded by the province.

Whose side do you think the smart kids are on? I guarantee its the teachers side.
Bargaining by threatening a wage rollback if you don’t sign is not bargaining. It’s threatening. The 120 dollar signing bonus is a joke. Over 6 years with 240 days per year that’s about 83 cents a day before taxes. Wow….there’s real incentive.
The government has created huge wealth by allowing oil and gas to do whatever it wants as long as they are paid a royalty. It’s time to catch up for the last 10 years. I hope the teachers go out on a full blown all out strike. It’s what’s needed to get the bargaining back onto a serious note.

oops. 1200 dollar bonus.

Where did the other 18 posts go. Must have been some animosity on the site.

Ski50 gets it. Must be one of the few one this post who actually talked to a teacher.

“From Wikipedia: “Kudos (from the Ancient Greek: κῦδος) is acclaim or praise for exceptional achievement.”

Sasssay, first you are praising the teachers (kudos to the teachers) but then you continue by saying:” Stop being greedy get a new job if you don’t like but don’t hurt and punish the children and the future.”

Hmmm.
“
Kudos was meant in sarcasm. Hence no happy face no grin no nothing … basically meaning WAY TO GO in a NOT positive way.

DPJ “With the size of the classes today the only kids who get the teachers attention are the ones behaving inappropriatly or the special needs kids. The ones who pay attention and do their work get ignored or are on the bottom of the list as the teachers dont have the time..

My children are neither special needs OR behavioral challenged so sorry to say but you are wrong. Get your facts straight before you make accusations like that. I know many parents that will stand behind me to support many of these. The children who get the help are the ones who are fortunate enough to have teachers who actually care and went into teaching for the children and the future!

eamut
“So sassay you talk to one kid and that gives you your overall view, wow easy peasy.

For all you critics have you ever talked to the teachers on the issues or just hide behind your keyboards.

How come those thinking the pay and benifits of a teacher are so great are not jumping in for the easy life. Oh right another 7 years of schooling, takes a bit of initiative.”

Nice try ..One child really get real I only spoke of one. Have you yourself worked in the school system? worked wtih children in the school system do you know the behind the scenes? I can assure you I answer yes to all of those questions. Seriously who has a better job … get paid for 12 months (as that is how pay is based in on a year) work for less than 10 months in a year. Have every holiday stat etc. off learn to save and budget like others. Daycare workers raise your children and they don’t get any of these benefits! really think about it .. they have a perfect job and they get paid EXTREMELY well … Everyone just wants more and more and more.

When you look back teachers don’t as a rule do anywhere near as much as they used to when we were all school age. This has nothing to do with class sizes.

Hart Guy
“Union president Jim Iker says they’re moving to Phase 2 of job action because the provincial government has made unfair wage demands and is unwilling to offer any improvements to class size or composition.”

Ok Jim, so put your cards on the table! Tell us, the taxpayer, what your Union is demanding this time around??

I TOTALLY AGREE WELL SAID!

if this was REALLY about the kids, the Teachers would take the money COMPLETELY off the table. But no, keep using the children as pawns.

To those who demand knowing what the class size wanted by teachers is, please go back to the contracts cancelled by Christy Clarke and the Liberal government a few years ago. You know, the contracts the courts have said twice should have been respected and should not have been cancelled. The class size requests are what is in there there, because that is what teachers have been asking for ever since the courts ruled in their favor. Just restore what was agreed to in the past.

On funding of private schools. The post by ski50 does acknowledge that private schools get funding from the government at either half or one third what public schools get per student. That is money that could go to the public system but is being siphoned off to to finance the private system. Despite that, the public school system is legally required to make a place available to every student who wants to attend. That money would make it much easier to do that and would help with the government initiated curtailment of per student grants.

If parents want to send their children to private schools, good luck to them, but private must surely mean no public support. Yet most private schools do get public support of 50% or 35% according to ski50. Private education should be paid for by parents who insist on having it. It should not be subsidized by the public. Public money should be used to support public services, not private ones.

Sasssay:”Kudos was meant in sarcasm. Hence no happy face no grin no nothing … basically meaning WAY TO GO in a NOT positive way.”

Well, if it works for you, I guess it is alright!

Sasssay I really do not think you have any direct knowledge of the working conditions as you have shown. Do you work their hours? Do you give up part of your weekend? Do you get threats? Do you give up evenings? Have you spent the years in getting the training? Do you get upgrading on your own dime?

From the Victoria Times Colonist:

“The B.C. Supreme Court ruled that the province must retroactively restore class size and composition language that was capriciously removed from teachers’ contracts in 2002, and must pay the B.C. Teachers’ Federation $2 million in damages.

That hasn’t happened yet and now government, with no apparent interest in obeying the dictate of the Supreme Court of B.C., is at it again, threatening to arbitrarily negate the teachers’ existing collective agreement.

– See more at: http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/columnists/geoff-johnson-government-s-bargaining-is-a-mystery-1.1067113#sthash.k0kkA64P.dpuf

ammonra: “Just restore what was agreed to in the past.”

You mean the sweetheart deal struck with the BCTF/union friendly NDP?

Doesn’t matter who the teachers negotiated with, the court ruled the BC Liberals acted against the law and that doesn’t change despite your personal prejudice, JohnnyBelt.

Are private schools taking away from public schools leaving the more difficult to teach and special needs to public schools let alone funding?

You’re right, JB regarding the sweetheart deal struck with the BCTF/union friendly NDP!!

I wish that every person criticizing the Government over a Court ruling (that is currently being legally appealed) would also make mention of the sweetheart deal that the NDP gave the teachers prior to the Liberals forming Government.

The NDP caved in to the BCTF and gave away far far too much! Seems the BCTF and the Unions were in power, not the NDP! Now that the Liberals are in power, it’s pretty hard to blame them for attempting to reign in the largess of the NDP to the BCTF!

Hart Guy: “I wish that every person criticizing the Government over a Court ruling (that is currently being legally appealed)”

Funny how so many people leave that part out.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/judge-grants-bcs-request-to-stay-decision-on-teachers-bargaining-pending-appeal/article17113956/

“You mean the sweetheart deal struck with the BCTF/union friendly NDP?”

Sweetheart deal? In your imagination, like a lot of other things. I distinctly remember that the relations between the NDP and the BCTF at the time were anything but “sweetheart”. Even if that were true, it would still be an agreement that the courts have twice ruled to be valid despite the government’s wish to negate it on appeal. However, to emphasize to those people who claim they don’t know what teachers want regarding class sizes, that agreement is the basis for it.

For those who don’t like to click on links:

“In affidavits in support of the government’s appeal, several school districts outlined some of the estimates of what a return to pre-2002 classroom levels would cost. Surrey, for example, said it would need to hire 445 teachers and 273 non-enrolling teachers – such as counsellors and teacher-librarians – at a cost of $40-million for the first year. It would need another $4.5-million to move and prepare 60 additional portable classrooms, superintendent Jordan Tinney said.

In Abbotsford, a return to pre-2002 levels would require the district to hire about 63 teachers and 29 non-enrolling teachers at a cost of $8.6-million, superintendent Kevin Godden said. An additional 21 portable classrooms would cost $2.6-million.”

More spin from JB and more uninformed opinions disguised as fact from JB and Hart Guy who state; the BCTF/union friendly NDP gave the BCTF the best, and sold them the farm, as far as class size and composition in 2000. So then, try and explain to the rest of us why, in 2001, BC had the 2nd highest student-to-teacher ratio for class size in Canada?

Come on boys, tell the rest of us why, according to the following Statistics Canada report, BC has had the highest, and at times the 2nd highest, class size / student-to-teacher ratio in Canada for almost every single year from 2001 to 2010. JB and HG, you are both so typical of Lib-Cons, always trying to pass off your BS as fact, yet it is the real facts and truths that expose both your opinions as being totally out to lunch. Now please, could you both return to the shallow end of the swimming pool? Because as usual, you both are in way over your heads on this subject!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-582-x/2011002/tbl/tblc2.3-eng.htm

Don’t let the facts and truth get in the way of your opinions boys! Remember, the BCTF claims that this year again, BC has the highest student-to-teacher ratio in Canada. So tell us… who should we believe the BCTF or the likes of the two of you?

BeingHuman, wonderful commentary from you as always! Facts and truths, truths and facts!!

Perhaps in your infinite wisdom, you might take a moment to explain to us how you used to post here as People#1, affectionately known to me and others as “Peeps”, but now you post as BeingHuman.

With “education” being the topic of this story, perhaps you can educate us as to the “facts and truth” of why you are now “Being Human”??

Don’t know what you are taking about Hart Guy, but unlike you and JB, my opinions and comments are “evidenced based”. I am sorry that the evidence does not support your, and JB’s, assertions about the NDP giving the BCTF “far, far, far, too much..”.

Sorry to expose your, and JB’s, comments and opinions as being completely baseless, however everyone is entitle to their opinions no matter how out of touch with reality they are. ;-)

More spin from peeps. Maybe you could find a single thread of factual information that show any direct correlation between class size and student grades. An ineffective teacher would have much bigger impact. Time to start tracking each teachers results year over year, proven to work in other provinces, once they know that they are being monitored they pick up their socks and very few have to find another career .

Peeps is back with a vengeance. I agree with Hart Guy. We would all like to know why you changed your moniker.

As for spin, I quoted the Globe article in my last post. If that’s your definition of ‘spin’, then so be it.

A return to pre-2002 classroom levels will evidently cost a lot of money, maybe as much as $1 Billion. Where is that money going to come from? Higher taxes? Or reduced services somewhere else in government?

Got anything to say Peeps?

Quote from People#1 on Feb. 16, 2014.

“I guess some of us still think being human matters… “Just Johnny”! It’s in my moniker ;-)”

Hmm…

blog/view/31097/1/legislative+changes+would+affect+forestry,+guide+outfitters

JB, a while back Peeps made a rather distasteful comment to another member of this site. I was quite shocked by Peeps comment and called for an apology.

Shortly thereafter Peeps went awaywhat with Peeps being the human advocate for , being human and all that with respect to the . I called Peeps on it, suggesting that Peeps owed an apology to

oops, phone call and no edit funtion!

I called Peeps on it, suggesting that Peeps owed an apology to the member. Being human, we all make mistakes and sometimes say things that in hindsite are regretable. Most of us are capable of swallowing our pride and we apologize. Peeps disappeared!

I enjoy offering my opinion, but it’s just that, my opinion. Getting back to the education debate, in my opinion, the Government has made more movement on it’s offer than the BCTF has made on it’s demands! Somewhere in the middle is where these disputes usually end up, but so far in my opinion, it’s the BCTF that has failed to make much of an effort. But that’s the BCTF way now, isn’t it!!??

Man you guys know how to hijack a post. Good job on the left vs right!

When facts get in the way of your opinion, deflect and distract…

Since 2001, when the Liberals tore up a signed contract, they have been trying to cut their costs on the backs of the public service and education. This latest attempt is shameful. They have not been bargaining in good faith.
Since 2001 teachers have not been able to keep up with the cost of living. I have voted Liberal in the last elections because I have liked the guys running. I will not vote Liberal again.