Haldi Road Area Looks At Pulling Out of City
Prince George, B.C.- Some residents in the Haldi Road area of Prince George, are testing the waters about possibly pulling their neighbourhood out of the City.
The area amalgamated with the City in 1975. Area resident Jack Nylund says the residents just want to protect their rural lifestyle. “We don’t see the City doing anything to protect our rural lifestyle.”
Many of the residents in the Haldi Road area were supportive of the battle with the City over the changes to the Official Community Plan and zoning which cleared the way for the development of the Northern Supportive Recovery Centre for Women. This privately run therapeutic residence has been developed in a former elementary school.
The neighbourhood took the City to court, challenging the changes to the OCP and won. The City then made the adjustments outlined in the court decision, and the neighbourhood took the City to court a second time. This time, the City won.
Withdrawing from the City of Prince George is not a new idea for the Haldi Road area residents, they first talked about it in December of 2012 ( see previous story)
Nylund says his group has already had some discussions with the appropriate Ministry folk in Victoria “There is a process” says Nylund “We are not doing this ‘off the cuff’, we are hoping to follow the process that exists under the Local Government Act.”
Under the Act, those looking to have an area moved out of the City limits, would have to convince City Council to request that the Lieutenant Governor in Council reduce the area of the municipality.
Before that can take place, City Council must:
(a) give public notice of its proposed request in at least 2 consecutive issues of a newspaper and once in the Gazette,
(b) obtain the consent in writing of at least 60% of the electors of the area proposed to be excluded, and
(c) receive the assent of the electors, unless this requirement is waived under subsection (4).
“If we can’t get 60% of the people to support it, then it won’t go anywhere” says Nylund. He says they aren’t sure of just how many signatures would make up that magic 60%, “Our approach is we are going to approach every home and sign up as many people as we can.”
The area in question has not had any City services ( water , sewer) so there would be no outstanding debt that would need to be covered. “The southern boundary would be Frenkel Road, the northern Boundary would as far as Trailer Village on Bunce Road and then it would run west to the highway and go all the way out to Jenson and Jutland, and to the east, it would to the end of the Leslie Road, Haldi road area. We look at it and we think there are about 250 homes in this area.”
Nylund says there are positives and negatives to withdrawing from the City. On the plus side, the area would revert to it’s previous rural designation and be part of the regional District. Taxes would be lower. On the down side, there would be no more garbage pick up , but neighbouring Beaverley residents do get free passes to use the transfer station.
The effort has started with a mail out of advisories letting people in the area know what’s being considered. Nylund says it’s too early to say what residents think of the idea as they are likely just now receiving the notice about his group’s intentions.
“We would like to have our area removed from the City, and there is a certain process we have to follow under the Local Government Act” says Nylund “So first of all , we have to see if we have the support of the area that we’re thinking of having removed. If we don’t, then it’s an exercise we tried and it didn’t work, but we’re expecting to have a fairly positive response.”
Comments
Here are some things to consider before pulling out of city boundaries
All your basic services sewer, water and garbage rates would climb as now that would fall under regional district guidelines, would no longer receive fire protection from the city, insurance would sky rocket because now your outside city limits, snow removal and clearing
You would Think most of that wouldn’t matter but start calculating it would the cost be worth “preserving your rural lifestyle”
Just something to think about
There is no sewer and or water from the city out there they all have wells and septic systems. Garbage rates would drop as you are no longer getting the service from the city. Beaverly fire drives right past this area when they respond to fires along the blackwater rd to their fire protection boundries. Snow removal will become 100 times better than what the city provides as it would be taken care of by YRB and in beaverly our snow removal is great.
Dearth^^^^^ Read and research.
There are no basic services in the area mentioned. So that in itself would lower their taxes.
There is a fire hall almost the same distance from the city one. That will not sky rocket.
As for snow removal – I am sure the roads will be done to city’s standards of twice a winter in rural areas of this city.
If I had a chance to get away from this city back into Regional District would I? You betcha!
The city does not provide sewer and water to those areas. They would have to drop off their own garbage. Many residents prefer that as they can dispose of their garbage more often to avoid attracting bears. Fire protection would come from a volunteer fire department. Their insurance is already high without fire hydrants. The snow clearing is so bad that the school buses weren’t able to drive their usual route. Their taxes will go down. There really aren’t a lot of reasons to stay.
BS Dearth! Know many folks that live in Beaverly and they pay way less taxes to the regional district.
“All your basic services sewer, water and garbage rates would climb as now that would fall under regional district guidelines, would no longer receive fire protection from the city, insurance would sky rocket because now your outside city limits, snow removal and clearing”
Those homes are on lagoons or septic tanks so no sewer charges there! Those homes are all on their own wells systems either stand alone or co-op so no charge now and no charge later. Garbage rates would go down you would just have to deal with it yourself. They could be covered by Beaverly fire department or start their own. Fire insurance rates in Beaverly are similar to in town. Snow removal and road maintenance would improve.
So what do they really get for being in city limits?
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
What basic services? They don’t have water or sewer. Insurance is already through the roof because of no city water. Most areas saw a plow maybe twice this past winter.
Garbage won’t be a big deal, Vanway transfer station is close. Neighbours all know each other and when someone is doing a dump run they’ll stop and ask the neighbour if they have anything that needs to go.
It’s a win win situation for the area.
“Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!”
I don’t think there’s any door that can swing that fast Summit.
I say, good for Haldi residents for bringing this forward.
The area does not belong in city limits. Haldi folks pay to have water trucked in. Be dammed if they should pay for getting rid of water. Why pay for rain off the roofs that does not reach any storm drains. City can’t have it both ways. Summit can have the tax man door hit him right in the wallet. He does not think of the average tax revenue haldi properties pay each year.
If people don’t stand up to the City, they will continue to push them around. They have little or no concern for the average citizen and basically look after their own interests and that of special interest groups.
They ramrodded the amalgamation through in the 70’s, and it took three separate votes before they got the necessary numbers.
Good for Haldi Road residents for pushing back. Time to send a strong message to the City that its us who pay the taxes, and they work for us, and we expect some respect, in our dealings with them.
The City needs an attitude adjustment.
Good luck to the Haldi people! I hope the people at the north end of the city are paying attention.
Isn’t everyone jumping the gun a little? Doesn’t it say that Council would have to initiate this? Logic says that’s not going to happen.
My posts disappear as quick as I type them so I will just say thumbs up
It’s more like don’t the door hit mayor and a few of her supporters on council in the tush on their way out summit.
Hart next, lets get it done. City residents taxes will go up with outer areas leaving.
They better not bring this forward till Green is gone as she would fight this tooth and nail just out of spite.And her relationship with long time friends.
With any luck Stoltz will also be sent packing this fall.
It would be pretty hard for a new mayor and council to ignore the wishes of an area if they get 60% of the people to sign up, my guess is more like 75%+ will sign.
The Hart would be a much harder divorce as they are serviced by city water and sewer services, including the Wallace area that is going in this year. There would be a big fight on how much is still owing and what it would cost to continue those services going forward. With the Haldi neighbourhood there is only garbage collection which would be easy to discontinue.
The legacy of Green’s poor leadership, if one could call it leadership, continues.
Green, Wilbur, Stolz and Krause all serve as directors for the Regional District and as such there would be conflict of interest. Theoretically they shouldn’t be involved in the process at all.
Give me a break. This sounds like something a young child would say when he don’t get their way. Haldi residents want to take their ball and go home, pouting all the way. Look, you fought it in court, and you rightfully lost.
If we’re going to go down this road where neighborhoods are pulling out of the City, then it might be time to bring in City Resident cards so that people outside City boundaries who use City services would pay extra fees.
You deserve a break JB if you are too blind to connect the dots of the backroom BS between this and taking over the executive of the local conservative party. You do not have to play a game of Where’s Waldo to find the same faces in both.
The outcome of this was decided right from the get go no matter what the residents said or did. They even had to take out ads in the paper to ensure proper notifications were given. If that would have been me I would not have put them in the paper and used the lack of sufficient notice as grounds for further appeal.
One hand washes the other.
“Give me a break. This sounds like something a young child would say when he don’t get their way. Haldi residents want to take their ball and go home, pouting all the way.”
I believe they were promised certain City services when they amalgamated. Those things didn’t happen. Why should they continue to pay ever increasing taxes for services they don’t have? The City isn’t listening to what the voters in the area want, and rammed OCP changes through for their “friends”. I’d want to leave too.
Good for you, Haldi Residents. I hope this works for you.
JB – If I remember right the people of Haldi were told it will be going in no matter what – right from the first meeting at the private residence the meeting was held at.
I am sure the Haldi people would say go and charge for those extra services.
In one year the savings in their taxes would more than pay for their usage fee.
Oh, and by the way – Careful what you wish for JB as your so called suggested fees will stop a lot of tourism and other surrounding areas from using those services also.
Sounds like a school yard bully – Haldi pulls out then make the ###pay! blah,blah, blah
I suspect their could be a decrease in the city coffers anywhere up close to a million dollars that will be lost from taxes.
As I always say, the money always has to come from somewhere, guesswhat. That’s not bullying, those are just facts.
If neighborhoods are going to start pulling out of the City of PG because of whatever reasons, decisions will have to be made in terms of making up shortfalls.
Gee, this sounds a lot like the Quebec separatism debate.
If it required the City Council to initiate something nothing would ever get done by the City. They would have to study it to death first.
” Posted by: Sine Nomine on June 2 2014 7:17 AM
Isn’t everyone jumping the gun a little? Doesn’t it say that Council would have to initiate this? Logic says that’s not going to happen.”
===================================
That’s the way I read it as well. The Haldi residents can want it all they want, but if the city decides it’s not in their best interest, I think they are out of luck . . .
250 houses estimated? At an average of $2,000 going to the City that makes half a million. The rest of the $ paid in taxes go to schools, RD, and Northern Health which will still be paid to the RD tax system.
There is no fire service since there is no water. They have to bring a water truck. Lots of extra insurance costs as a result.
Haldi Rd. is not the only area like that in the City. Maybe others will start to look at what they get from the City and who is subsidizing who.
NMG. I think it’s been researched before it hit the news. Council may not have the final say if 60% of the residents of Haldi vote in favour of separating. The information is on the net on the law.
Please read the report above once more. It starts off with: “Under the Act, those looking to have an area moved out of the City limits, would have to convince City Council to request that the Lieutenant Governor in Council reduce the area of the municipality.”
That is called “initiating the process” in common language.
Hardy an valid comparison as Quebec is about the biggest benefactor of federal government largess. Unless you think the Haldi residents are kinky masochists with Green dressed up as the dominatrix and try to get that picture out of your mind.
The possibility of returning to the regional district came up early in the process if the bullying tactics of city hall continued. So it is not a case of I lost and am taking my ball and going home but more a case of the city reaping what they sowed
It is amazing how many on here have as little understanding of the Haldi situation as Councillors and Administration do.
I hope the Haldi area residents keep standing up against being pushed around. The Hart area was overpowered as well in 1975 when the votes of all the city voters were counted. I couldn’t find a single person in favour of being amalgamated in our Hart neighbourhood!
I believe in people having citizen duties as well as citizen rights! In my opinion Haldi Road area made a very compelling case for being listened to and not forced into something they were passionately against!
Too bad it was made to happen this way!
“If we’re going to go down this road where neighborhoods are pulling out of the City, then it might be time to bring in City Resident cards so that people outside City boundaries who use City services would pay extra fees.”
So JB, in your world, I would have to pay a user fee when I come to PG to visit family? Nice. Why don’t you suggest building a 5m brick wall while your at it.
Well, what is your suggestion to make up for the lost revenue, Pylot? I’m all ears.
It’s funny how many people want to take shots at me but don’t want to answer the bigger and more important questions. I know, it’s easier to shoot the mesenger.
what is your suggestion to make up for the lost revenue?
10% expense reduction across the board in city services.
;)
Lost revenue from services never provided JB. It shouldn’t be too much of a loss. That’s called fraud the last I checked. Promising something and not providing the service.
I grew up on that side of town, and the City never provided the water / sewer systems promised. How long is long enough JB? Next year will be 40 years.
Why should those residents continue to fill the coffers for services they never received. How come you never answer THAT question.
The city will save money by not having plow the roads and maintain them JB! Oh wait a sec they don’t plow or maintain them now…..nevermind!
What do they get for all those tax dollars JB? The problem with the City expenses write now is that the city is too spread out. Reining the city limits might be the only way for the city not to go broke. How much does it cost the city to collect garbage and plow the Haldi road neighbourhood compared to regular city streets. One 5 acre lot of taxes isn’t very much to the equivalent area in city lots. The city should be happy to let them go.
Put a gate to the city with a toll for them if they want to enter PG :)
As usual JB is on the wrong side of the issue.
Fact of the matter is the City in collusion with the Provincial Government amalgamated the Hart Highway, South Fort George, Haldi Road, and other areas against their will. It was (on the third ballot) the citizens of Prince George who voted for amalgamation, and they won. To say that the process was underhand would be and understatement .
Since then amalgamated area’s have received diddly squat for what they pay in taxes, etc;.
If the City wants to keep these areas, then they better start paying attention to them and get away from blowing all our money on stupid downtown projects.
I’m all for segregation. All youse city slickers can stay outta my regional district lakes, trails and campsites too :p
“10% expense reduction across the board in city services.
;)”
I have a great idea! How about maintaining services while achieving a 10% savings in every department?
Come to think of it, maybe not; it may have been used as a carrot before and nothing came of it!
I think Prince George is too spread out to do everything required to do a good job.
thanks pg for ensuring that my quote is correct. That is what I meant to say.
Palopu: “As usual JB is on the wrong side of the issue.”
You say that as if you’re some sort of final ultimate authority on the subject.
What you probably mean is that I don’t always follow the mob mentality on such things.
My thought on this issue has always been that the Recovery Centre was the right project in the wrong location, but in terms of the legality, the Haldi residents had no legal recourse to stop it. The Supreme Court ruling agrees.
You can shoot the messenger again if you wish, I know you enjoy it.
You are right JB! The City lost, changed some wording the court agrees with the City and now the OCP is a joke! We have a plan that isn’t a plan it’s a we can do whatever we like and no one can stop us. Great plan!
Arnt property taxes supposed to cover the costs of services provided and not to be a revenue generator?. If there are justifiable shortfalls (eg higher than normal snowfalls), than this can be made up by future explained tax increases. If however a half million tax dollars is collected from the Haldi residents and lets say for arguments sake half of that was spent on services It can only mean that 150k was put into the coffers of the city. So who is subsidising who?
JB The conversation was about whether the area had the right to rejoin the regional district and how the city will make up the lost revenue.
Your reply to this question speaks to the court decision. Would be like if you were asked what colour is the sky and you answer pizza, yes it is an answer but not relevant to the question.
To answer the question: the remaining taxpayers will pick up the tab. To lose the taxes from 250 odd homes is not a big deal, a small fraction of total within city limits or better yet just a few smarter decisions from council and administration will make all that back plus more.
A example of poor decisions from city hall. A number of years ago I remember reading on the city financial plans the there was an unfunded line item that requested funding to repair stucco on the pool building and that it should be priority before it becomes a major issue. I thought typical maintenance low on the list yet again. Now I see that there is a multi year, $3million dollar program to do the repairs>>>OOPS. I just wish they kept the old financial plans up as am not 100% sure that they were not the four seasons and the aquatic center. Regardless there is now an unfunded $25k 2015 request to repair stucco on the CN center, is history about to repeat itself. Sad when a $28k awning for the CN center has funding that year when the building behind it is starting to crumble.
The city brought in roughly $87 million dollars in taxes in 2012 and total revenues were roughly $160 million.
I hate to say it, but the Haldi Road subdivision could fall into a sinkhole and the city may not even notice. The area is nowhere near as significant to the city coffers as some people on here seem to think.
PGGuy1234 Hit the nail on the head.
The City of Prince George is much to big of a land mass, to effectively do a good job in all area’s.
They should have left well enough alone, however their **ego’s** got in the way, and they want to be big players.
Problem is they are not big players, they are just big beessers. They have one foot nailed to the floor and have been running in circles for years.
The City actually needs to be audited, for at least the last 10 years, with a view to pointing out how they are perennial money wasters. A close look at how the City operates would show without a doubt that they are an embarrassment to the citizens of Prince George. They have had free rein for so many years, they have fostered a culture of entitlement.
That sinkhole notion could be the best thing to ever happen to the Haldi crew.
” The area is nowhere near as significant to the city coffers as some people on here seem to think.”
Then it’s a win/win situation if that area is insignificant (as you say), and leaving lowers their taxes.
My taxes in Haldi are $3700+ utilities. Think the average is a little higher than 500K for the whole area.
“Then it’s a win/win situation if that area is insignificant (as you say), and leaving lowers their taxes”
===========================
Yes, I suspect it could very well be.
“They should have left well enough alone, however their **ego’s** got in the way, and they want to be big players.”
If my memory serves me right the province manipulated the amalgamation issue with a carrot and stick financial offer. There would be some provincial money for the city if there were an amalgamation, the stick being a time limit after which the money offer would be off the table.
Much like the Harper carrot and stick thing recently with the implementation of the controversial HST!
You are right PrinceGeorge. The city was given $6 million dollars from the provincial government as a one time offer if the areas were amalgamated. The question is where did this $6 million go??
If your taxes are $3,700 we would need to know some more information. Taxes include a component for the City, for the Regional District, SD57 and Northern Health. Then, if it is your primary residence you get a reduction which the province will pay to the City and you will get a reduction if you are a senior.
So, is the $3,700 actually given to the City or is a part of it just collected by the City?
Government building should not have stucco on them. Cheap construction which will not last the length of building’s projected lifetime.
Don’t worry artisan with the way the city maintains their buildings non of them will have stucco soon, but any plantings or flower beds near the building will have a nice layer of stucco like mulch to assist in weed control.
Another idiotic decision from the past that will soon reappear to haunt our pocketbook was to allow houses to be built on the flood plain at Morning Place down the North Nechako, They are now going to spend $1.4 million dollars over the next couple of years in flood mitigation for the area.
lonesome sparrow, I would love to hear what the City financial whizzes have to say about the possible loss of the Haldi Rd subdivision and what their counterparts in the Regional District have to say about the possible financial gain.
No matter whether the change would be financially significant, I doubt it is a break even situation. One or two of the three parties will gain, and the remaining of the three parties will have a loss.
Just wait — in a few months, we’ll have a whole new mayor and council to gripe about.
This is unfortunate, however a complete lack of respect and basic consideration by this City’s Mayor and Council towards a whole neighborhood has brought us to this situation.
Good leadership builds a city and makes it stronger, poor leadership breaks it down, dividing it and making it weaker.
put up a gate and a toll for them to come into the city ????,,,geez ,,, I would go all the way to Vanderhoof happily , to not have to encounter people like this .
artisan There will be no winners or losers between the city and the district, small portion of either budget. The big winner is the Haldi residents, financially a wash but a huge moral victory.
The biggest loser will be the former mayor, can’t imagine how to spin this into a positive in a run for parliament…..world class magician can make entire subdivisions disappear from the city,,,TA-DA
JB,,,ever think we might end up with a group that leads by example, act like adults, have heard of the word consciences and have used it to reach a decision, whose decisions are made by what is right and not who contributed to a campaign…..I know it is a lot to ask but when you reach rock bottom there is nowhere to go but up.
Lonesome -guess you have not heard the latest –
City of Prince George wants to sell Edmonton Street to Northern Health.
There is a meeting Thursday June 5 @ 7 at the Auditorium of the Health Unit Building on Edmonton Street. Notice was in the paper.
So, do we as taxpayers get some money back? Not Likely.
The people in city hall need to go…..
“The City actually needs to be audited, for at least the last 10 years, with a view to pointing out how they are perennial money wasters.”
Great idea Palupo! Now we need a catchy name… how about “Core Review”? :D
Lonesome: “JB,,,ever think we might end up with a group that leads by example, act like adults, have heard of the word consciences and have used it to reach a decision, whose decisions are made by what is right and not who contributed to a campaign…..”
Nope. Many of the posters on this site will be griping about the same stuff after the next municipal election. Those people know who they are. You heard it here first.
Oh yeah, and maybe 30% of them will actually bother voting.
Haldi road .. The area where they don’t want women to get help and have safe successful lives….
You betcha P Val!^^^^Get a grip lol
Are you just going by gossip or do you actually know the people of the area?
Tells a lot about your character when bad mouthing a whole neighbourhood the way you do.
Be sure to tell your friends and family when they are at the centre how much the people of Haldi don’t want to help anyone.
Sheesh!
Guessewhat I spent 5 years of my life working with problem teens. Dealing with ignorant people like yourself.
Guessewhat. And you have done what to help your fellow humans ?
Only 5 years? Wow…talk about a bitter person. Amazing you lasted that long when the only thing you can do is name calling others you have no clue of.
Nice way of evading the question:Are you just going by gossip or do you actually know the people of the area?
You people in Haldi are a bunch of babies. You don’t want something out there that isn’t going to do anything to your precious neighbourhood. Some less fortunate ladies will get help no thanks to you. If you go, I would think each house should be assessed your share of the city debt. Including the new police station and the winter games.
You people in Haldi are a bunch of babies. You don’t want something out there that isn’t going to do anything to your precious neighbourhood. Some less fortunate ladies will get help no thanks to you. If you go, I would think each house should be assessed your share of the city debt. Including the new police station and the winter games.
so when the majority says no there all babies? Some people like protecting there precious communities, Maybe if we protected downttown it wouldnt be the seth pool it turned into. There are alot of other building they could put the facility into. Good for you haldi!
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