With the civic election coming this fall, have a referendum question included. Then we will know what the citizens want. Pretty simple.

“Gable says the most common misconceptions about the performing arts facility stemp from cost and need. He emphasizes the Society is not asking the city to foot the entire bill, just a portion of it – with funding to come from all three levels of government and the private sector.”

Therein lies the problem. First, is there a need? What’s the number of people who need this facility? I suspect that number is very low. Second, let’s see how much private money they’ve secured before squeezing the tax payer. I suspect it’s zero.

I think a performing arts center would be nice…
but MOT RIGHT NOW with all the other infrastructure needs in this city.

The specs they are forwarding would not allow for a lot of the entertainers to set up as it will be too small. ie: Cirque du Soleil that is arriving in January.

I also don’t believe the facilities that are available are being used to their fullest.
Use what you have first then approach us.

So yes lets have a referendum.
two questions…..
1) are you in favor of a PAC.
2) Are you in favor of the city suppling funding AT THIS TIME.

I think there will be a lot of yes answers to question 1 and a lot of no’s to question two.

But I believe mr gable and his group of squeeky wheels have friends in city hall so I expect funding will be made available a lot sooner than we expect…

I think this has real estate considerations more than anything for most of the proponents of a PAC. Typical PG planning with tax payer dollars for improvements to an area for the benefit of special insider real estate values.

#1 This should be settled in a referendum at election time.
#2 No senior level of government has committed a single dollar to this project, so at this point it is a proposal for 100% city funding.
#3 Not a single dollar has been raised by private sources to pay for this project… they recently had to ask the city for a grant to promote the project… so again the city will be 100% liable for this project if it ever goes ahead.

While I would like PG to have a PAC someday when it’s more financially feasible, I really don’t like it when people such as Gable say the following:

“..the Society is not asking the city to foot the entire bill, just a portion of it – with funding to come from all three levels of government and the private sector.”

Mr. Gable, if you’re out there, listen up Sparkie. Those other tiers of Gov’t…. that’s tax payers money too. It’s not a piggy bank full of magic beans.

Also, he says only a “portion” will be paid by the City…. what portion? 10%, 20%… 60%?

You think electronic coffee circles is the answer to demand for this project? I think you have a much bigger issue to hurdle Kirk, it doesn’t make any sense. We can’t afford this and it’s time for this stupidity to stop.

Ask the upcoming mayors – Don and Lyn their opinion – yes or no – not a wishy washy answer.
Have a referendum at election time – taxpayers will decide.
What is the real cost? How much is the cost to the taxpayers of PG?

What alot of people dont understand here is a city needs to diversify its ecomonmy. If you dont, you end up like Quesnel. Mill shuts down, town becomes a Ghost.

A nice PAC would just be another feather for potential growth. Which intern would create more tax money, which intern, would allow for more infrastructure rehabilitation.

People have to accept the fact that this city moving forward is going to turn into a little city, not a big town. We need the facilities to retain the people who are attracted here.

Referendum please.

10 dollar millionaire thinking.

I totally agree phje. Build it and make it an attraction in PG. It’s way past time.

phje… That argument has been used for decades. The same thing was said about UNBC and CN Centre.

Definitely, let’s have a referendum on it. I really don’t see a lot of public or corporate support for it. If there was corporate support, they would have a bank account to show us for it.
I definitely believe that they are trying to get everyone interested and then hit us up for money for it.
The CITY has spent nearly a quarter million on planning already. That’s our money. If there is such a need, then let’s see businesses, who will profit from it. put up some money first.

I totally agree phje. Build it and make it an attraction in PG. It’s way past time.

10 dollar millionaire thinking.

Posted by: Furbink on June 26 2014 7:17 AM
I totally agree phje. Build it and make it an attraction in PG. It’s way past time.

——–

Build it without any money from the tax payer. The PAC committee claims they can get $10 million privately. Go ahead and build it for $10 million and run it with the profits from the ticket sales.

I’m not seeing any need for tax payer involvement here. I know I’m tapped out; I can’t afford it.

We need a PAC downtown to return events and evening vibrancy to that area. Downtown has really improved over the past 5 years. This could tip it over the edge and help achieve a healthy artsy bent to our downtown area and our city, bringing in tourism, new business opportunity, revenue and population growth.

Furbink seems to have money falling out of every pocket

Sorry for my cynicism TakeActionNow but I was just at an event downtown, went on the balcony to chat with some people grabbing fresh air and some a smoke. What do you suppose greeted our eyes? There was a small group huddled by some trees and one staggered to another tree and relieved himself almost falling a few times. Made me think that maybe we should build a Commedy Club instead in the downtown seeing as a new country bar is not allowed.

We can’t afford it. It’s just not building it but it’s also the annual cost to run it.

Referendum and let the tax payers speak. Then listen to them for a change.

Btw don’t sign up for anything on the website posted, they will use the numbers to shows it’s wanted even though they says it’s for information only.

So the public a business plan on how it is going to balance the budget. Is this going to be another cash sucking venture that we are going to own for ever.

Any hits on their website could be used for approval numbers. Wonder if Commonwealth would be involved with any property related matters?

Still waiting for the list of world class performances! Don’t those usually come with a world class price?

Cirque is world class and it’s coming without a PAC.
Some might think Elton John is world class and he has already been here.

“Gable says indecision on the project is costing the city money – with the cost $42.5-million dollars last November, that price tag rises with construction costs by an estimated two-percent every year.”

When it doesn’t get built it won’t cost is a thing!

phje:” Mill shuts down, town becomes a Ghost. A nice PAC would just be another feather for potential growth…”

I remember the pine beetle epidemic which devastated the harvestable forest inventory, but the lack of a PAC in Quesnel had absolutely zero to do with any mill shutdown!

Nice try though!

This Performing Arts Centre will seat 800 people. So at any given moment only 800 will attend a function.

If one presumes that the Performing Arts Society will make up the bulk of those attending these functions (one would think so because of their undying support) then the balance of tickets available would go the general public.

There is absolutely no way that you can justify building a $40 Million plus facility to entertain 800 people. When one considers that they want support from the surrounding area’s then all we will end up with is a bunch of frustrated people because that cannot get tickets. I’m assuming that those connected will get first dibs on tickets.

The Port Theatre in Nanaimo costs the City approx. $500,000,00 per year to operate. Anyone who thinks that a theatre in Prince George will do better than the one in Nanaimo is living in a dream world.

The City and the proponents of this facility DO NOT WANT A REFERENDUM because they know that it would not pass, and their dreams of a PAC would be over. They will do everything in their power to avoid a referendum, and avoid borrowing money, because that gives us all a vote.

It will be interesting to see how they will carry this project forward in regards to funding.

A referendum on the ballot this fall would settle the issue once and for all.

Heres a novel idea in this age of always having to build it bigger and better and Leed compliant of course:

Dumb idea from a backwoods hick (moi):

Spend what money you can easily raise; you say that 10 million is achievable, start with that sum. Build your fantasy castle in stages, I’ll bet you can go a long way on 10 mill. Forget economy of scale etc. Accept that it will cost more in the long run. You don’t have the money to build it all at once.
Or, start saving you damn money and build it when you have enough. Oh, and do the rest of us a favour please, make sure you have an operating budget. Don’t ask the taxpayers to fund the upkeep.
metalman.

Do we not have a playhouse that sits empty most of the time? That same playhouse that gets rented out as a church to generate revenue. Why isn’t it being utilized and when would the PAC be used because this place is insufficient.

This city does not NEED a PAC.

P val to set record straight..

We have venues used seldom, when we get a big act they play at CN centre. There is no need for a PAC as it’s fluff for a few people.

Nuff said

If this project is so very dear to their hearts, the proponents of the PAC should raise all the monies themselves and should run it with ticket sales. Taxpayers are tapped man.

And to the proponent who said that Quesnel became a ghost town because they didn’t have a PAC needs their head read. If most of the proponents are this out of touch with the way things work in the real world then we are in trouble. Airy fairy doesn’t pay the bills.

Vanier Hall is described as an 800 seat cultural centre on their web site.

So for all intents and purposes we have a cultural centre. I am aware that it is owned by the School District and there are some restrictions in using it, and also aware that the PAC does not like the lay out, especially when it comes to bathrooms, and acoustics.

I am sure that if the City, the PAC and the School District got together, we would be able to upgrade Vanier to meet the needs of Prince George.

Why spend $40/50 Million when it is not necessary.

So what do we have in Prince George.

1. 800 Seat Cultural Centre-Vanier Hall
2. 300 Seat Playhouse Theatre
3. 6000 Seat CN Centre
4. Theatre Northwest.

Seems to me these facilities are more that sufficient to meet our needs, considering that we are a small city. Population 75000 at best.

The City would like to trash the Playhouse Theatre, and sell the property to commercial interests, and in order to do this they will have to show that we have sufficient cultural facilities. Thus their support for a PAC. They could use the money from the sale of the Playhouse, and pretend that it is new money for a PAC, ignoring the fact that it is still tax dollars.

Lets have a referendum and put this issue to bed.

I just heard on eth news that te city is $20 Million in the hole for infrastructure, so what is more important, drinking water, driving on the roads, having your poo disappear or watching some play.

Pick one… in my books the latter can wait….

Sherry, as your last act as Mayor, please do something for the citizens of PG. Add a referendum question to the nov election.

Theatre Northwest has 80 days of showing a year – 4 plays. So, assuming PAC is the same, and assuming every show is sold out, 64,000 tickets will be sold. It also means 16,000 people will come to each show.

Now as one poster put it, it’s all government money (excluding the private portion). So 31 million – works out to $14.53 interest on each ticket – then you start paying for heat, lights, sets, performer salaries etc.

And the government will still be in debt $31 million. And one day, it will have to repay that debt, and it will get it from us, taxpayers. So you’d think they’d at least ask us if it’s something we want.

The average estimated taxpayer cost to operate the PAC after the revenue is approx. $300,000.00.

Likely a conservative estimate.

Initial cost aside the yearly operating cost is prohibitive unless there is additional external funding in place, which to date there is not that is not to say that there cant be some organization or business willing to drop a few pennies for the good of the community.

Most performances at the Port Theatre in Nanaimo are one or two nights only. It would be the same groups performing here. Half the time this facility sits empty.

For high end performances people will have to go to Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, or Seattle as they have done in the past.

Junco,

If the majority of taxpayers have reading comprehension similar to you then we have bigger problems than infrastructure.

Now, please read my post again. Diversifying a cities economy is not only favorable, it’s a necessity, just like having sewers and roads it aids in bringing in different types of taxpayers.

I hope you can understand this one.

Phje. So your willing to gamble $60 million ( let’s be reasonable with the costs as everything the city is involved with building comes in at least %20 over estimated cost ) for, as you put it , “potential growth”

Big gamble with tax payers money don’t you think, for a town that hasn’t seen any population increase since the early 80’s.

Money from federal government NO commitment
Provincial Government funding NO commitment

Industry or others committing funds NO

Running around crying for $40 million plus for an arts center. Look at the other art centers like Chilliwack their malty purpose centers and skill have a funding short fall. If built there will be a yearly bill to staff and maintain. Maybe look at what we have and how we can enhance these because the moneys not there people. However try Enbridge call it The Enbridge Performing arts center.

I have nothing against the PAC as a concept. Sure, build it. Build another art gallery while you’re at it. Sure, let’s get a “West Edmonton Mall” while we’re at it. Hmm, maybe a cathedral, and a football stadium like BC Place. Yep, all good ideas (ha) except that they aren’t realistic for a town this size with NO money to spend on frivolities.

I agree with the people who ask where the private investment is. Let’s see some numbers of what the business adn PAC supporters are willing to spend out of their own pockets for this “want” before the city commits any more money to this.

Meanwhile, let’s fix the sidewalks so people can use them safelty. Let’s make srue the water and sewer systems are in good working order. Let’s take care of what we have before we build more.

P Val,

I prefer to call it a Calculated Risk, Afterall, isn’t that what every decision is?

Diversified Economy, on the other hand, is not a gamble. Its a fact. It will help the city. The PAC will go a long way in bringing in entertainment that otherwise would never come here.

People keep talking about Theater Northwest, Would Western Canada Theater not consider coming to PG if we had a proper facility? there is a ton more nights the building is full.

The city partially funding a PAC is fine with me.

Phje my reading comprehension is just fine, you may want to check your spelling though. What you so cavalierly propose does not add value to a city that has a failing infrastructure that needs to be addressed before frivolous ventures can even be remotely considered. You mention diversifying the economy. One does not diversify their economy by adding a PAC that is paid for on the taxpayers already broken backs. This is not how the economy works. Prince George is already an expensive place to live in regards to City taxes in comparison to other cities this size. By adding more taxes to support an 800 seat boondoggle, we are scaring away potential residents instead of drawing them in.

I hope you can understand this one.

Is there a concrete proposal that we can read? A document that lays out exactly what the the proposed facility would provide, how that compares with existing facilities, what it will cost to operate, what the market for the various acts is, etc.? In short, the kind of business plan that private investors would demand?

Weren’t these the same people that had to borrow money for a study regarding a PAC? And they expect the citizens of PG to believe they can raise the millions of dollars privately that would be needed.

It will be interesting to see which mayoral candidates support or don’t support the PAC.

To answer my own question, there are three reports available on the PACS web site: http://pgperformingarts.ca/downloads/

The PAC and other theatre outfits in town can’t work together as it is, last thing we need is another clique in town

well, where do I as a taxpayer sign up and oppose this frivolous expense? im tired of being fleeced by special interest groups…if it makes good business sense to build a PAC, the arts and dance folks surely would have risen to the occasion.

Once Walmart came in diversification collapsed.. Look at all the small stores that have closed shop. Look at all the empty retail places all over town.

One Hail Mary pass of a PAC won’t help anything.. Will actually hurt pg as people won’t move here due to the taxes added to our already over priced city and utility bills ..

Don’t let reality cloud your judgement ..lol

If we build a PAC and the “people don’t come here”, do I get my money back?

The concerts that presently are staged at CN Centre have 1500 to 3000 attend…so this style of concert exceeds the PAC seating..so a PAC obviously will bring in more theatrical performances, but how does TNWEST fit into this?? I do not think our community and area can financially support the costs of a PAC along with the numerous other venues (although not perfect ) that now serve us. REFERENDUM PLEASE!

Referendum Please

Referendum Please!!

The City will be adding a new tax soon- they say they need to upgrade the storm water and sewer water systems because they are in bad shape. This is basic infastructure, and it’s failing badly. Can they pay for upgrades from general revenues…No, they need to create another money stream to help pay for the repairs.

Referendum Please!