It is frustrating to see Fassbender manipulating statistics again. The BCTF wage requests are not double. They don’t even reflect the increases in inflation. Fassbender likes to lump benefits in when quoting percents, yet when he comes up with his totals for other settlements he conveniently forgets to include their benefits plans. Don’t be fooled people. Anyone can manipulate statistics. Teachers are asking for less than 2% a year.

“Education Minister Peter Fassbender says the BCTF decision will impact thousands of students and will do little to bring the two parties together. Fassbender rejected BCTF calls for mediation.”

Rejecting mediation will do even less to bring both parties together. In fact, it will make sure they stay apart!

AW – Fassbender isn’t manipulating anything. Teachers taught Fassbender and the public how to do math. Quit hiding behind the numbers!!! The public isn’t dumb!!

As per yesterday blog:

5000 signing bonus = 7.1% further increase over 5 years for someone making $70,000/year.

8% + 7.1% increase = 15.1% increase/5 years = 3.02% increase

Who gets a 3.02% yearly increases in this day and age.

3.02% doesn’t even factor in the benefit increases.

These increases are unsustainable for the taxpayer of BC!! I will for someone else if the government caves to these demands!!

Don’t forget the ” modest increase to the benefits” $3000.00 in massage therapy, fertility drugs, maternity and paternity top up, Long term disability – wanting those on LTD to receive the same benefits without paying for the costs of those benefits ( little hint those companies that offer benefits do not pay employer nor employers share when a person is on LTD, those costs are for the employee to bear as they are not working. With the amount of teachers I know who use the wage indemnity, and LTD that amount of money to fund that option is pretty substantial, eliminating the bottom steps so the starting wage will be 2-3 steps higher initially, signing bonus of $5000.00. I know people who don’t make that in 3 months. And of course the increase in their plush pension package, because I love to harp on that.
The teachers need to realize that this is not about the students, take the BS benefit increases off the table those will cost millions upon millions a year, and I am stumped as to how that will make them better teachers

AW – ALL benefits and allowances MUST be calculated in the costs to reach a settlement as it is the cost to manage the employees it still must come out of the employers budget. It doesn’t just magically disappear.

IMHO both sides should stop taking the issue to the court of public opinion and sit down at the table. The teachers are going to ask for the moon while not believing they will get it, it’s part of negotiating. The government should admit that they have been underfunding education for many years and it is not fair to BC kids. There is a lot of money government wastes every day that could be put into education if there was a will to do so. It’s about priorities and apparently a good education for our children is not a priority of the government.

hockeyfan, your math is wrong, you failed this test. Take summer school to learn it!

5 years of schooling. ..massive student loan debt. ..and baby sitting your children and you say they don’t deserve it give your head a shake. ..every one of you that complain are probably all for the foreign worker program also. ..heh great idea let’s bring in a whole bunch of uneducated foreign workers that will work for next to nothing. …damn the liberal government all ready tried that. …..

“but the government remains entrenched in the areas of class size and class composition.”

That’s the real issue! The government doesn’t want to lose in court again. Remember the courts told the government to fix their errors twice. They haven’t, why do they think they are above the law?

The teachers are fighting for every workers rights not just their own.

i work in a field that is deemed an essential service, due to the risk to public safety if labour action occurred. it bugs the hell out of me that the government of this province believes that SUMMER SCHOOL should be deemed an essential service. essential services should begin and end with public safety, those services, that if removed, could lead to serious injury or death to members of the public. education is incredibly important, and I support the teachers in this dispute, but how can anyone try to justify labeling education as essential?

Here is an interesting figure, 80%. That is the amount of education funds not spent during this dispute disappearing back into government coffers. Any bets that money from this district and other will not be spent on education but on some new fancy bridge in latte land for vote buying. Or some big project down south.

i work in a field that is deemed an essential service, due to the risk to public safety if labour action occurred. it bugs the hell out of me that the government of this province believes that SUMMER SCHOOL should be deemed an essential service. essential services should begin and end with public safety, those services, that if removed, could lead to serious injury or death to members of the public. education is incredibly important, and I support the teachers in this dispute, but how can anyone try to justify labeling education as essential?

People should read his bio in Wikipedia . Pay special attention to his carreer section . It’s unbelievable just who can get elected in bc. First a failed post secondary student ( 3X ) as premier . She hasn’t got the credentials to run a mcdonalds . And this guy fassbender should make us all wonder . Fassbender and christy want to turn this into a war ( of words) . I say to the teachers . The first rule in any war is , know your enemy . He’s/ they are using smear tactics and false numbers . All you need do is shine a light on them . Teachers do your home work . Do you know what the promise keepers are and what they represent ?

Ataloss, you say the numbers are false…please enlighten all of us that have just fallen off the turnip truck what tehy really are. Please include everything not just salary demands.

Interesting – Christy Clark managed to become Premier of B.C. with just a grade 12 education. Well, since BCTF and it’s members are the one’s responsible for up to grade 12, they should be proud a student was able to accomplish so much with what she learned from them, instead of using it as a slur.

Fact is, look at most successful business people and it’s shocking how many don’t have post-secondary degrees. Jimmy Pattison never managed to graduate from UBC. In PG the amount of millionaires walking around without post-secondary agrees is astonishing.

Fact is, innovators usually think outside of the box, which is why they create innovation and wealth. Post-secondary education institutions are run by those who can’t, so they teach – I know, I was one.

A reality check for BCTF is that in spite of it being stock full of post-graduate talent, they’ve been out-maneuvered by a high school graduate – badly.

They went up against an opponent who was willing to go to the mat, but thought she’d buckle at the first sign of trouble, and now they’ve got themselves in a full blown strike, and they’re secretly hoping she’ll legislate them back- but she won’t, she’ll let them stay on strike, and then come fall – we’ll see the first steps to privatization of education.

One poster said BCTF’s best strategy would be to accept the lousy deal they’ve been offered, and save their money for the next election, because they’re right, this government doesn’t care about the education system as it is, they think it’s broke, and I think behind closed doors, they want to rebuild it again from scratch, and they can only do that once the BCTF has been broken.

Live to fight another day BCTF. “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”

Teachers are not the only ones with a degree and massive debt. Many people are in the same boat but they don’t get a cost of living, or strike every few years and demand ridiculous benefits. Most people don’t get a cost of living increase every year, let alone a raise such as the teachers get every year with their step increases whether they earn it or not.

I will believe that there are good teachers that deserve these increases when the teachers agree their union is broken and they start to report and manage the bad teachers in their organization. Much like the police there is a camaraderie to protect the bad teachers, lowering the quality of education. Until this is fixed not even the good teachers should be financially rewarded to the level they are demanding.

Giving them another 225 million a year for Prep and Professional Development is ludicrous. The prep is in their wages, that is ( despite the teachers claiming otherwise) part of their contracts. Otherwise they work only 6.5hrs a day 40weeks a year. That’s 1300 hrs a year for 45,700?? That 35$ an hour approx. Or is that wage inclusive of a certain amount of prep much like all other teachers in other institutions so they should be putting in another 450 hours a year to work the same number of hours a year as the rest of the civil workers of this province based on 35hrs a week and 2 weeks vacation. IF they put in the 450 hrs marking and prep then they make 26$ an hour, still a decent wage, 2.5 times minimum wage.

Ski little jimmy inherited his daddies job ,money and dealership . His dad made the wave and little jimmy got to ride it . Poor example . As for christy ,I don’t have all day . She’s owned and operated by harper co. I believe you are right that she wants to destroy BCs education system and doesn’t care who she destroys to that end . Her kid and most of her ilk have theirs in private schools . Did you know that there is a move in the UK to defund private religious schools ? Does anyone enjoy paying taxes that are used to educate kids in private schools promoting fringe beliefs ? If people want to turn their backs on public schools they should not expect and get half their money from the rest of us so they can have smaller class sizes . Btw atheists are the majority in Canada and growing . Also it is no accident that the most successful country in the EU is lead by a scientist . These clowns we are lead by could not be elected dog catcher in Europe because the electorate does its home work and they still have a free press .

Ataloss

You might want to do a little fact checking on Jimmy, according to wikipedia he borrowed money from the bank in 1961 to open a Pontiac dealership and that was the beginning of the Patterson group. His father did not set him up, the man is a self made billionaire.

The Liberals in 2007 gave Banks in BC a 300 million tax brake. Banks use public infrastructure supported by BC taxpayers….the Banks need to start paying their fair share and there needs to be a review of how much money the Liberals are giving to their corporate backers. The carbon tax affixed to school district utility bills and then transferred to privaye corporations was robbing the education system. The 43% raise in salaries and benefits the the Liberals gave to all MLA’s is a budget concern.

I asked Jimmy Pattison once, personally, to his face, while chatting, “Is it true that once you make your first million the second one is easy?” He put his hand under his chin, gave it a rub and replied to me, ” For me,it was the first hundred thousand.” And that was the extent of my brief chat. He’s worth 9.5 billion dollars now. The richest guy in Canada. Downside? He’s over 80. Sadly, ya can’t buy time.

The kids who graduated this year have spent all 12 years of education under current rules where the bctf cannot negotiate class size.

If class size was so detrimental to the the quality of the kids education as the bctf says then you would think that there would be a measurable decline in the average grades that graduating students got over the last 12 years. I have seen no proof that this is the case. How do 2014 grade 12 marks compare to 2002 or to 2008 whose students spent half their time under current rules.

You would think that if Iker even had a sliver of evidence that grades of graduating classes have declined over the last 12 years those papers would be glued to his hand.

Me thinks another red herring- typical civil servants want more for doing less.

Ataloss, check Jim Pattison’s bio. Self made billionaire. Last time I checked The Catholic religion was the largest Christian organization in the world & Christianity in general has a pretty healthy following, hardly fringe.
Parents who put their children in private or home school want something different for their kids & have grown disenfranchised with the public system.
Atheists are the majority in Canada??? WTF. Sorry, Christianity still ranks #1 in religious belief in Canada. I seem to remember reading that Sikhism is pretty high ranked as well.

Ataloss, because our constitution guarantees religious freedom, I could care less what they teach, as long as they don’t teach hatred and the kids learn to read and write, and do math. My friend’s kids go to a religious school and so far none of them has showed up with a swastika or a death to the gays tattoo – so hopefully his school is the norm.

The funding argument – i.e., I don’t want to pay taxes for private schools, is an interesting one – because you don’t.

Let’s say 100 families live in a town 87 want a public school 13 want a private school. There’s going to be 200 students and it will cost $8,000.00 per student, so each family is given a $16,000 tax bill creating a $1,600,000 fund. The town council reluctantly agrees to let the 13 families have their own private school, but only give them $4,000 per kid. So those 13 families paid $208,000 into the fund, but only got back $104,000 from the fund, so in fact, those families subsidized the public school system – and that’s why private education is not being subsidized by you, in fact, it’s the reverse, those families are subsidizing the public system, because they pay the same taxes, get half the money for their kids, and pay tuition on top of it.

The only way this argument would fall apart is if you could demonstrate that private school families are generally below average tax payers – but likely the opposite is true.

tax brake?

Did you give up on your Sweden plan or find out they make 35k a year and decide it is not so bad here after all.

Harb–Thompson richest guy in Canada by a mile but Jimmy has fattest wallet in BC

ewitt….Was Thompson, now Jimmy. I await yer apology.

Leaving Friday!!! Making a lot more.

Hey, Hockey Fan and Siabiz: After some fact checking, I think you folks must be teachers, cause I just learned a few truths based on the info you’ve provided. You taught me some things. Thanks.

“Fact is, innovators usually think outside of the box, which is why they create innovation and wealth. Post-secondary education institutions are run by those who can’t, so they teach – I know, I was one.”

Hmmm.. you were what? A teacher? Why’d you leave?

@ taxpayerteacher, leaving Friday, making more??

Ok, how about your benefits and pension?

You twits in the BCTF continue to spout off that you can make more in Alberta, but you fail (conveniently) to mention that the total package in Alberta might not be a rosy as you suggest.

If you are going to compare your very reasonable BC salary with Alberta, please be sure to compare all aspects of the compensation package!

You`re a teacher! Come on, aren’t you supposed to be able to figure that out for yourself??

Y – I only taught part-time. It was veiled humor, but I left for much the same reason the teacher’s are angry. I started off with classes of English speaking students who were fun to teach and though the money wasn’t great, I liked it. Then, the number of ESL (Chinese) students increased to the point where I wasn’t even sure if they were learning anything, they needed way more time than the college was willing to pay for, and I make more in private practice – so I just never renewed any of the contracts. Not sure what you got out of my post, but I think I made BCTF’s point – high school graduates can go on to do great things because of great schools, without post-secondary education.

@Hart Guy

It’s is not Alberta that tpteacher is headed for it is Sweden. Looking at the link that was posted the other day he is going from #5 on the list to #21 on the list of highest paid teachers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/highest-salaries-for-experienced-teachers-countries

Research skill must match his spelling skills, heard of smaller class size and said I’m there but forgot to ask what the salary was.Oops

Thought it was all for the kids taxpayerteacher and not about the money…. Hmmm

@ ewitt, thanks for reminding me that taxpayerteacher was going to Sweden. I momentarily forgot!!

I posted a OECD Salary Comparison a week or so ago for his benefit! You and many others posted similar links but so far the teacher supporters haven’t been able to discredit those comparisons!!

By the way ewitt, I 100% agree with your comment at 1:08 p.m. today! Interesting but typical that none of the teacher supporters have responded to your post! They must really be upset at your very logical and rational comment!!

I don’t think that they have responded yet because they are currently in a group hug, wiping tears away as they realize that their argument is rapidly crashing down around them!!

Ontario in 1975, 35 kids in my class. I remember grade 6 was standing room only for a couple students until they moved a few more desks in after a couple days, every morning like musical chairs after the Lords Prayer and singing of O Canada, we did that back then. Grade one I couldn’t even speak the language except from what I picked up at the bus stop, somehow the teachers managed to teach my sorry butt English and still teach the rest of the class. I could imagine how much of a distraction that was. I can still do a proper “R-R-R-Roll up the R-R-R-Rim” but was unable to teach buds how to roll the r’s

Comment Posted by: Harbinger on June 26 2014 1:58 PM

ewitt….Was Thompson, now Jimmy. I await yer apology.
——————————————-

You may have to eat crow this time Harbinger

#1- David Thomson, 3rd Baron Thomson of Fleet and family $26.10 billion

#2- Galen Weston $10.40 billion

#3- Arthur Irving, James Irving, John Irving $7.85 billion

#4- Edward Rogers III and family $7.60 billion

#5- Jim Pattison $7.39 billion

“Me thinks another red herring- typical civil servants want more for doing less.”

Absolutey, does that surprise you? Be quiet and pay your taxes!

Siabiz you said:
Giving them another 225 million a year for Prep and Professional Development is ludicrous. The prep is in their wages, that is ( despite the teachers claiming otherwise) part of their contracts. Otherwise they work only 6.5hrs a day 40weeks a year. That’s 1300 hrs a year for 45,700?? That 35$ an hour approx. Or is that wage inclusive of a certain amount of prep much like all other teachers in other institutions so they should be putting in another 450 hours a year to work the same number of hours a year as the rest of the civil workers of this province based on 35hrs a week and 2 weeks vacation. IF they put in the 450 hrs marking and prep then they make 26$ an hour, still a decent wage, 2.5 times minimum wage.

The truth is that they make on average with principals and administrators out 73,000 plus 18,000 in benefits which includes a rare define beneifts pension. If you do the math they make around 50 dollars an hour and with benefits it is over 60.

cupridity,
I’m not sure where you got your numbers, but
check this website:
http://www.cknw.com/2014/05/21/bc-teachers-at-low-end-of-salary-scale-according-to-stats-canada/

Also, while a number of right wing-nuts continue to attack the teachers and BCTF, I don’t see ant of them responding to Palmers’ Vancouver Sun article.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vaughn+Palmer+Teachers+government+close/9945049/story.html

The teacher bashers on the site are a lot like hockey fans:
they support their team no matter what it does. They don’t seem to realize or refuse to acknowledge that the Liberals have a large role in creating this situation.

Ok karmann, so I’ve finally had a chance to read your linked article.

Seems like the teachers still want TOO MUCH!!

Wages although lower, are still higher than what other public sector workers have accepted. Demands for better benefits are still too high? By the way, when do we ever reach a point when benefits can’t be improved any more? Some of the benefits that they have or they want are ridiculous! Massages, bump up pay during maternity leave, etc! These things are NOT free!!

The teachers want a $5,000.00 signing bonus and think that the Government should give them this because the strike has saved the Government lots and lots of money. Isn’t giving the BCTF a large Cash signing bonus akin to rewarding them for bad behavior??

“Don’t do your job, but we’ll pay you anyway!!”

That sure doesn’t work in my world! Does it in yours??

AS far as the stripping of the contract, this was a new contract with items from the expired contract being removed!! New contract, new terms!! Don’t like the new contract? Quit your job and go find another one! Don’t like the BC Government or Education System? Listen closely, is that Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario, Quebec, etc. calling??

karmann, you have ignored previous posts that illustrate just how generous BC and Canada’s teaching salaries are when compared to other OECD countries. Pretty darn good if you ask me and yet the BCTF still whines and complains!

Speaking of the OECD, here’s another article published just yesterday:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/quality-of-life-best-in-b-c-new-oecd-website-suggests-1.1886116

You respond to cupricity that you are not sure where he/she gets his/her numbers, but you don’t dispute the numbers. Is that because you are unable to? Instead you post a link to an article that doesn’t appear to factor in a comparison of benefits and pensions. Why is that??

karmann, I’ve now responded to your posted Vaugn Palmer opinion piece. Perhaps you might like to respond to ewitt’s post earlier today at 1:08 p.m. today!

I’d be really interested to hear some comments regarding this post, but you, the teachers and the teacher lovers seem to be staying away from that one! Why is that?????

Cupricity – I was only using the first year wage to not get hackles up too much lol.

Karrman- the teachers have raised picket lines and were legislated back to work since they unionized under EVERY government including your presious NDP. The ONLY common denominator is the bctf.
They whine so much. Most of the teacher supporters have to resort to name calling, personal attacks once they are proved wrong which is devalues any argument they can muster.
I have not heard one decent argument that was not easily refuted from a teacher or teacher supporter. Oh Alberta pensions just because someone mentioned it is only 12.65 across all wages. Employees pay different contribution rates based on their wages. Compare that to the bc teachers pension of 14 and 16.43 over ympe. Starting wage in sd 57 is 45700 at 14% is $6398.00 employer paid into one teachers pension. Alberta 45700 at 12.65% is 5781. Difference is only 617 BUT multiple that by 30,000 ( FTEs in bctf) and the diffract in pension payments is $18,510,000.00. That is if EVERY teacher makes 45700 which they don’t and the percentage of contributions goes to 16.43 afterYMPE in BC but not in Alberta.

Go to Alberta

Oops love my iPad auto correct
Should read ” and the difference in pension payments is ” not diffract

Hart Guy,
off the top of my head, I wonder what the drop out rate for students has been in those years.
Also, I have heard that the govt scales its final exam marks. As in any given year the provincial final for a subject may be more difficult than previous exams. I don’t know if that’s true.

Cupricity,
“… your presious NDP.” Not mine. I have no faith in them. That’s another of your baseless assumptions.

karmann, the teacher lover’s, the NDP lovers, the left wingnuts and others so inclined have absolutely no problem attacking me for my views and opinions.

As this is an opinion site, I am entitled to my opinions and I try to do a bit of research when time permits so that I am both more knowledgeable in my opinion and am also more able to support and defend my position.

Rather than responding to my question, perhaps you might provide us with some information to support your suggestion. Without it, you are simply defending an indefensible position.

I am finding that more and more questions are being raised, with both the BCTF and it’s supporters left unable to answer the questions or defend themselves. I hope that you don’t fall into that scenario.

If you come up with some evidence to support what you “have heard”, please share it with us! You state “I don’t know if that’s true.” Perhaps you might take some time to check your information and get back to us?

I’m not trying to be critical of your response. I’m just asking you for facts to support it. After all, I am often called upon to admit that I am wrong when I have made a mistake. I don’t have a problem with that because I might be wrong as often as I am right!!

But then, I might be wrong, haha!