"her caucus will continue to hold the Campbell government accountable'
...now come on Carole,what difference have your opposition critics actually made to anything the Campbell government was doing?I believe your party took the fat raise that they all got, did it not?
Sorry Carole,too little too late!

What more Bush league poltics from the NDP- they have posted nothing postive on their web site- no plans, no soultions- only critizism with absoulety no fiscal plan- lets see they have promised to solve the homeless problem in BC, the forestry crisis with an out dated 5 point plan, the crime wave around the sky train, ferry ferries and a host of other issues- James recently got caught on the Cowichan Lodge issue. A bunch of whinners with no soultions and how the heck would they pay for their promises.

They had no choice about the money. Campbell and the other Liberals rammed it down all MLAs throats whether they agreed with it or not. They did have the choice to donate it to charities in one form or another, and that is what NDP MLAs do. That means they did not accept the money as pay. So, Andyfreeze, I suppose the answer to your question is, "No, they did not".

The time for the NDP to outline its platform will be during an election, or when the NDP believes doing so will benefit them the most. I am glad you think they are a bunch of "whinners" (winners), though. I think they will win, too!

ok,ammonra,fair enough...but show me something where the NDP MLA's actually donate the pay increase to a charity, because I have seen nothing indicate that this is what they do.
Are you saying the ALL do that?
What charities?
Or is it strictly up to the individual after they actually get this increase on their paycheck?

My understanding is that there are no charities selected by the NDP as a group and it is up to individual MLAs as to how it is donated. If you want to know what a particular MLA does, I suggest you call their constituency office. They are listed on the Legislature web site. I do not know the mechanics of it, only that it was the decision. I believe it has been kept low key deliberately. I also would not expect it to continue past the next election.

I do find it surprising that the MLAs who opposed the pay increase are targeted for criticism on the issue repeatedly, but the Liberals who sucked it up from the trough with indecent haste are ignored almost completely. Life is strange sometimes, isn't it?

The big news here is not that James is reshuffling the chairs on the Titanic.

The big news is that David Cubberley is leaving after just one term.

Cubberley and Gregor Robertson were known in the 2005 election as "moderates" who appealed to both sides of the political spectrum. And that they did.

Saanich South (Cubberley) and Vancouver Fairview (Robertson) were won by the narrowest of margins by the NDP. Were actually predicted to be Liberal holds.

For these two first-time, moderate NDP MLA's to jump ship tells ya somethin' about what the NDP thinks about its prospects internally for May, 2009.

What's left in the NDP caucus? Mostly left-wing diehards.

Unreal.

We were originally told that donation is what the NDP would do with the raise,but I have never seen anything that indicates they actually did that.
And your right ammonra,it IS kept very low profile, but I think it is for different reasons that you suggest.
The Liberals openly took the raise and they will have answer for that at election time.
Not everyone has forgotten as they hoped we would,and it will come back to haunt them.
Carole James has blown it as a leader and the NDP has blown it as a party that has had the perfect opportunity to raise their profile and garner support.
What more could an opposition party ask for to beat up on, than the Campbell Liberals!
I had hoped they would do better and under a strong leader,they might have.
Too late now.

"...and it is up to individual MLAs as to how it is donated."

I shall submit that to the Joke of the Day website.

Thanks for the laugh!!!

This is fun! I always get a giggle from the apologies for the NDP that "ammonra" comes up with. Now there's a die hard left wing nut.

Carole James had a perfect opportunity to show she and her Party are willing to 'represent' the citizens of BC with the NDP's "Axe the Tax" Petition. All she had to do was phrase the question(s) asked properly, by ASKING what the people want. Not trying to get our names on a List that says we agree with what the NDP is TELLING us we should have.

There's TWO separate issues there. The repeal of the Carbon Tax. And what the NDP proposes to replace it with. Why not ask what we really want, one thing at a time? What are they afraid of, that we won't want their alternative any more than we want the Carbon Tax? What if we don't? Are they going to 'represent' OUR wishes, or do they march to the tune of a different drummer?

"For these two first-time, moderate NDP MLA's to jump ship tells ya somethin' about what the NDP thinks about its prospects internally for May, 2009."

Could be they were worried the NDP might win. What a mess awaits them if they did. What with the prospects of continued economic
trouble in the forest industry, a fall off in the BC housing market, the coming over-runs for the 2010 Steroid Circus, increased foreign domination and concentration of mineral and petroleum resources, overall debt growth that's still absorbing too much of everyone's income, and now, just tonight, news that the "Queen of Sauerkraut" is having repeated 'teething' problems ala the failed Fast Cats! And only a two year warranty period? Who'd want to have to face all that? It's potentially a bigger budding mess than the NDP created in their 10 years in office!

Welcome back Yama, I've missed your rightious, radical right views. Keep up the babble, it's always good for a chuckle. Hee Hee.

But, Rafe Mare says he will vote NDP in the May 2009 election. See his article on The Tyee. Hows that for "die hard left wing nuts", a badge of honour coming as the insult does from Yama?

Just remember, if Yama had his way we would have a party bird with one right wing flapping, flying in ever decreasing circles until it disappears up its own whatsit.
:-)

To Diplomat: Have you actually checked with an NDP MLA, or are you just making your usual knee jerk anti-NDP assumptions again?
:-(

No, I haven't! Perhaps I should check if the Nanaimo Commonwealth Bingo Society still accepts donations?

Since it is entirely up to the NDP MLA whether he/she actually really donates anything to any charity it would be an exercise in futility to ask.

Only Revenue Canada would know and its records are not open for public scrutiny.

What kind of dupes does the NDP think the ordinary BC citizens are?

You are making your usual pro-NDP knee jerk comments again.

NDP would interpet that as a jerk-knee and start a rant about how the taxpayers should fund some union to look after those people with bad knees! Heehee!

Perhaps you should, Diplomat. While you're at it why not check whether the BC Liberal Party still charges corporations to have a meal with Cabinet Ministers?

It is interesting to note that neither Yammerer nor Diplomat actually addressed the issue of the Liberals under Campbell ramming the pay increase down the throats of MLAs and the voting public, despite massive opposition from both.

Instead the attack me and the NDP for being opposed, along with malicious inferences of dishonesty and lies ("joke of the day").

As right wingers have demonstrated over and over again, "Throw enough bullsh*t at the side of a barn and some of it is bound to stick". Obviously to those two the facts do not matter.

Both, in fact, prove my earlier comment that the trough snuffling Liberal pack slurping up the goodies is considered unimportant, while the MLAs who protest are attacked as criminals almost. It is called a distractor, designed to deflect attention away from disgraceful behavior when apologists have no way to soften the behavior of the people they support at all costs.

This is interesting, you are somehow trying to imply that taking the pay raise is something negative, yet the other side which initiated the raise and took it is okay?
Of all the old hat, meaningless issues to use to attack the NDP rather than point out they have no solid positive policy only a year before a scheduled election?
And no mention that of THREE Liberal MLAs from the area, two of which are top players in the party, none have even suggested offsets to party imposed carbon taxes let alone voice opposition to those taxes while knowing full well their own constituents will be hit harder than others in the province.... or voiced themselves in the Legislature as mill after mill closed and threw entire towns into disarray.
Let's be honest. We've been let down by both the Liberals and NDP. Pull up your socks, there's whispered talk of the desire for a third option in the wind.

Most of what you say about the Liberals is very true ammonra...no argument there.
But we are getting away from the original argument,and that is the NDP who were the ONLY hope for holding the Liberals accountable for the crap that they have heaped on the people of B.C.,have failed miserably.
Why?...when all the opportunities were there to act like a real political party?
Simple..wishy washy leadership that should have been dealt with a long time ago.
In their fist term,the Liberals spent a lot of time glad handing and handing out freebee's.
That was the plan to be seen as the saviors of B.C.
In their second term, they began really socking it to us and have continued to this day.
Why?
Because they knew there was no opposition to stop them.
They also know there still isn't, and we will ALL pay the price for that in the very near future!
Cheers!

When are the NDP MLA's going to come clean by publicly (with income tax receipts) proving that all of them are in fact donating the entire objectionable raise in pay to the charity of their personal choice?

"ok,ammonra,fair enough...but show me something where the NDP MLA's actually donate the pay increase to a charity, because I have seen nothing indicate that this is what they do.
Are you saying the ALL do that?
What charities?"

Well said! How about coming clean?

When the NDP was in power all kinds of ministers, deputy ministers, heads of crown corporations etc got huge salary increases. I made at that time an inquiry to our local NDP MLA. The NDP's official justification for the big pay increases was that in order to attract the most qualified individuals the government MUST offer them compensation equivalent to what a person would be paid in a similar job in private industry!!!

Now, shouldn't that apply to MLAs as well?

Shouldn't they get (by the same reasoning!) enough compensation so that it is attractive to them to serve in government rather than dedicate their talents to making money in private business?

Why was the NDP THEN in favour of generous compensation and why is the NDP NOW dead set against it?

I tell you why:

It is all about scoring political points and it has nothing to do with ramming anything down the throats of anybody.

It is cheap politics, as usual! However, if one questions all these shenanigans accusations of malicious slander and lies start to fly.

I wish the NDP would make up its mind about what exactly it wants to be and who exactly it wants to represent...or, maybe not. Leave things the way they are, please!

Yes, that argument is still valid Diplomat. However, lets put the issue back in its context. The Liberal Government had been pleading poverty and refused pay increases to its employees for many years. Do you remember the 0,0,0 farce, and other such imposed programs? They gave nothing to others, but stuck their snouts in an overflowing trough themselves. They make people work for $8 or $6 an hour and refused an increase, and still do refuse an increase, but they stuffed their own back pockets with tax money. That is what was objectionable, as you know perfectly well.

Your memory is very good for anything to slam the NDP with, but you develop amnesia when your Liberal friends are the subject. Interesting, eh! In that regard, did you find out about the Liberal Cabinet Minister charges fiasco?

As I said, ask the MLA concerned if you want to know where they are donating the money. Until you do you can't possible have any basis for factual comments, so any of your accusations, inferred or otherwise, are just "whistling" (read something else) in the wind.

The NDP is quite comfortable with itself, thank you very much, despite the snide comments of its opponents who want it to change (surprise, surprise).

O.k., ammonra, you made your point from your perspective and I am not alone in asking the questions about what the MLAs are doing with the "money they did not accept the money as pay."

Why do you ignore my comment that they should choose to present proof? You also ignore to explain why a pay raise THEN (when the province was on the ropes) was alright but it is NOT alright now that the province has been put back on track again.

If you agree, as you say, that MLAs should be well compensated why is your leader making such a fuss when their compensation was increased? Is your leader out of touch with reality?

BTW, I have a good memory (no amnesia) for the shenanigans of ALL politicians, including Liberals and NDP. So, I do indeed know quite a few things perfectly well, to use one of your expressions.

Until I see actual proof of the NDP MLAs charity contributions I can think anything I like and wonder about what is going on. One would think that they would make a regular public disclosure for the sake of clarity.

That's all I have to say. Sorry that you are so upset again.

A fresh new party is what is needed here instead of trying to put brand new saddles on old worn out horses and endlessly defending the indefensible.

Those who make accusations should substantiate the accusation. That is a basic principle.

You categorised me saying each MLA would donate the pay increase to charity as a Joke of the Day. That it, you made an accusation, by inference, that it could not be believed. The onus is on you to prove that. Neither I nor the MLAs have to prove anything. If you can't substantiate your accusation then at least have the guts to withdraw it.

Evidence is the best proof, beliefs are a personal matter.

I'll withdraw my Joke of the Day comment as soon as you present the simple evidence that I asked you to come up with.

Until then I do not believe your statement that: "They did have the choice to donate it to charities in one form or another, and that is what NDP MLAs do. That means they did not accept the money as pay."

I did not say that *it* could not be believed - it is I that does not believe it, others may believe it and I am sure many people do. That is their decision, my decision is to wait for proof. You don't have to attack me because of that. You did not attack others who expressed the same doubts on this thread.

It's a stalemate.

I still think it's funny! And, if you are a typical NDP supporter I am sure I would end up tarred and feathered if I ever showed up at an NDP information meeting!

You can't tolerate anybody voicing even the slightest valid criticism, can you?

Maybe it would be a good thing to have a more well paid MLA which we would have higher expectations of what they do for us.

Good governance is more likely if we had less dictatorship, and this takes a strong second party rather than what we call an "opposition" party. How about a constructive bunch of MLAs which try to work for all of us?

MLAs which march on behalf of their constituents rather than marching to a dictator is something which we need in this province. Both parties have a terrible record in doing this BC style governance and it has caused much harm to our province.

MLAs should not be only accountable on election day nor should they operate in isolation from their constituents.

For all those who believe partisan allegiance should prevail over anything else should realise that this is the devil of our system.

Yes, I agree, they should be well paid and should get regular pay increases to make up for inflation, for instance.

If they fall behind because of being held to no annual increases (for political hay making purposes) the public will howl like crazy when they finally get a substantial cumulative increase to make up for lost ground.

They should all get the same raise and accept it as compensation for a job well done.

Of course, if some don't want to accept it they should return a cheque for the amount to the provincial treasury and thereby save us taxpayers some money.

That way the treasury records will have a record of who paid back the unwanted money.

The MLAs of both parties here in BC have a solid record of taking marching orders from whoever the leader was/is and toeing the party line, come hell or high water.

It's the same in every province and also at the federal level.

Every once in a while a true renegade comes along and amazes us by crossing the floor because he/she can't go along with it anymore.

Too bad there aren't more of them!

The "crossing the floor" diplomat is something that isn't what we need--usually.

Remember emerson jumping over to the conservatives, while he was actually a elected as a liberal. This is not democracy either and all those who just voted for him were fundamentally cheated.

MLAs and MPs can and should stand up for their constituents without jumping to the other party.

Dissention should be something which should actually happen more often and then perhaps this partisan stupidity would be reduced to what it should be.