Why is it that Judges whom are already RETIRED only come on your show and speak about the problems of our police force. Do working Judges have something to be afraid of if they have an opinion, or say? To me, it seems as though there's pus under that scab.Hello...... What more catastophic events need to happen before our politicians wake-up and go back to a Provincial Police Force. Only when it's closer to home..maybe!

we do not need a provincial force.
What we need a federal police oversight and independent entity to investigate the RCMP incidents.

What we also need is actual enforcement of the law by prosecutors and Judges.
An example: a mother in Ontario was just recently released for being possibly wrongly convicted for 10 years of killing her 2 year old, accidentally, meanwhile known gang bangers and repeat offenders are given lighter sentences on each subsequent convection. They should get escalated sentences for each conviction.

When people are shot in the back of the head "execution Style" or tasered to death by our law enforcement officials this tells me that there needs to be change. These two completely avoidable incidents are only two of the more public mistakes that the RCMP have been involved in. I will bet it would not take much searching to find that many more similar type incidents have occurred over the years but have been covered up and hidden from the public to protect the officers involved. Kind of like the "skull and bones" they protect their own first. A provincial police force would be a positive change and would give British Colombians the ability to hold law enforcers accountable. If a police officer commits a crime of any sort he needs to be treated consistently compared with other offenders.
The screening system and the lie detector system that is used by the RCMP does not work, if a criminal wanted to join the force and he knew the system he could get in.
What appears to be a normal characteristic in most RCMP officers today is what I call the video game mentality, when you watch young people play violent type video games they kill without remorse and cheer when they win the more blood the better.
How precious is life to us, do we see life as a video game or do we care for others enough to want to try to understand what their issues are and try to help them before we decide to kill them....or have we lost that simple caring gene that we all used to have.
I think that a complete change "overhaul if you will" needs to happen with the police force. This needs to include the installation of a new "Provincial Police Force".

Two things BC must remove in order to survive corruption and ineptness. First the BC liberal government then the RCMP.

BC residents are so used to seeing RCMP, that they buy the "national symbol" myth. But, residents of Ontario, Quebec and Newfoundland barely know that they exist. When I lived in Toronto, the only time you saw the RCMP was in front of foreign govt consulates, where they are responsble for security.

In RCMP jurisdictions, crimes like Fraud are rarely investigated, because they prefer easy to wrap up cases. Why? Because staff transfers are frequent and units lack resources. Where the RCMP pursues major investigations, these are generally done in urban centres, where other police services would be better used for the task.

The RCMP, in many BC cases, have tasered themselves in the foot so many times that their image keeps being discussed, internationally, on sites like this.We don't need another police force--what we need are two things 1) individuals at the top that will accept responsibility when things go wrong--and proof will be how many of those individuals comment here, and 2)the RCMP need to quit filling their quotas by the sex, race and associations of their applicants.Real RCMP members will finally stand up in the open, and state,what they say behind the scenes, that they are tired of many double standards in the RCMP.

The way I see things is BC needs to have a homegrown peace officer force that is staffed with officers that grew up in BC for the most part and are in it to improve their local communities. At the end of the day our peace officers should be responsible for their actions before the law equally to all others in society as enforced by a new accountability flow chart... where the buck stops with our provincial elected government.

The days of a police force that recruits from the east to send wannabe cowboys out west to show those westerners their place... while they transfer from community to community escaping local accountability in their career path of moving up in the force with a closed siege mentality when their actions are questioned... this has to come to an end.

I don't think you can say we will change the accountability factor somewhat and that will fix everything. Clearly it is in the public interest of BC to have our own provincial police force policing our province to our standards and with accountability to our politicians.

BC has unique circumstances especially in our relationship with our native communities that they do not have in the east where the majority of our bad officers come from. Local recruits serving in BC would be far more attuned to the local peculiarities and how best to resolve local conflicts IMO.

You all have no clue.

It does not matter whether it is a BC Force or the RCMP. What is needed is accountability in our law and legal system.
We need a police force that is run without corruption and cover up and a civilian watch dog organization to over see the powers and actions of who ever is administering our laws. We need police force that is at arms length from the governing party of the day. One that can not be bought by government to do their bidding. We also need a legal system that is accountable to the voters not the government of the day such as what we have now. We need a legal system that has some teeth and not afraid to put criminals behind bars where they belong. We need a police force that is not terrified of the gangs of today. We need laws enacted if they are not already there, that will deal with criminal gangs and confiscate their assets such as the Rico Laws in the US.
And last but not least we need a good construction company to construct some good secure jails so that when the gangs and criminals are brought to justice we have a place to put these scum bags.

As well and probably one of the most important changes we can make is a system that deals with corrupt police officials, lawyers and judges found to be fabricating evidence, withholding evidence or any other corrupt action that convicts innocent people. To often we hear of people sitting in jail for crimes they did not commit not because some one for got to do something or made an honest mistake but because of willful corrupt police officials fabricating evidence or withholding evidence that could clear a person of wrong doing.

On top of all this the Canadian people should be giving the right to protect themselves, their families and their property from criminals with any force necessary. They should not have to fear from the law when criminal acts are perpetrated on them. They should have the same rights as the police force when protecting themselves or their property.

The_grandinquisitor is one of the RCMP bad guys.

Maybe so, but i tend to agree with him. There is a lot of rhetoric flowing here and very little verifiable fact.
Anyone can say that the police are corrupt or that the bad ones come from back east. These are unsupported statements. The RCMP are corrupt as compared to...? DO you have any examples of better forces? DO you have any reason to believe that reinventing the wheel with a provincial force will actually improve things? Is there documented evidence that easterners are lousy cops and cowboy wanna be's? If so, lets hear it.
I already have the right to protect myself and my family with any force necessary. I dont have (or want) the right to use more force than i need. Nor do i need the right to use force to protect my property.

Let's ask grandinquisitor: how many reports to crown counsel did you write last year? The true answer would be: 5-15, And those are usually half-page charge recommendation documents.

Policing is a coffee break posing as a job.

Truth, I see you are still living in your twisted little world. Must be nice to be able to attend all of these inquiries, unlike the majority of us folks who have jobs to go to. This site has gone to the dogs. Even Stephen King would be hard pressed come up with some of the downright zany thoughts proferred on this website.

IMO,civilian oversight with the power to recommend and make changes is the only way to go.
Somebody has to police the police.
We asked for that once before, but instead we got a token named William Elliott.
Which is the same as nothing.
There is no question we need to take some of the control back and replace it with accountability.
Attitudes like that of The_grandinquisitor and a few other cops are proof of that.
They may in fact be good cops, but it is obvious they do not like to see the public question their integrity, and that is a huge part of the problem.
God syndrome?
Do as we say without question?
Police need to remember who they work for.
Their attitude is that it is them against us, and that brings all cops into question.
The general public has more of a clue than most police officers seem to think we do, but we are obviously not supposed to even doubt their honesty.
Well we do doubt it in many cases, and with damn good reason.
I am suprised that after all this time and the number of dubious deaths at the hands of the RCMP,(and to be fair,other law enforcement agencies)that civilian oversight has not happened yet.
How do they they manage to maintain the control they have and why do those we elect refuse to pay attention and get involved?
And why do our courts not step in and do something?
Why do only retired judges speak out, as someone else mentioned?
Who is controlling them?
Is it lawyers or politicians they are afraid of?
Do we have a judicial system or do we have a "legal" system?
Who is running the show...police or crown council?
Something stinks bigtime, and if the RCMP are not willing to clean up their own act,then someone has to force tham to do it.
And that would apply to all police forces.
Let's face it,burying your own dirt and protecting the screw-ups within the force does not constitute cleaning up your act.
By the same token,not everyone makes a good cop and if the RCMP turfed out a few of the bad apples that they know damn well are there,it would go a long ways to re-establishing their credibility.
Instead,they hide them within the ranks.
The length of time it takes to deal with a cop who screws up tells us that something is indeed wrong within the force itself.
If a civilian had done the same thing...killed someone,beat them up,impaired...it would be over and done with.
With the RCMP and other police forces,it goes on forever, under what appears to be a different set of rules.
Why is that?
Does the law not apply to everyone equally?
Personally,I would fully support a return to provincial policing with civilian oversight.
If that happens, it is something else the RCMP only has themselves to blame for.

Whoa...sorry about the extended rant!

Hey Andyfreeze, You have nothing to apologize for. You are only seeking the truth like the majority of us. I hope that Mr. grandinquisitor prints what you wrote and puts it in the lunchroom so the rest of THEM can read about what the pubic wants to KNOW, just what is going on. Someone, please do tell?

I agree hammmy...people do want to be told truth and that is what causes much of the problem.
We are NOT stupid.
Now, I see where two RCMP officers were charged with sexual assault in Watson Lake on Wednesday.
The complaint was filed on Monday morning and these two were actually charged on Wednesday.
I can only assume there was sufficient evidence to justify them being charged so quickly.
What is REALLY suprising is that it only took a couple of days for that to happen!
How rare is that?

Ok truth FYI....on one day: 8 Justice of the peace hearings = all remanded.
This past month: 15 reports to crown counsel - some for warrants some for people already in custody. Multiply this by 12 months...I'm sure you can figure it out. Sure I'm a cop. But my numbers are just that- mine. There are tons of other members out there who have the same numbers. Unless your in that line of work, then you have no idea.

You all can think that the cops all hang out at Tim Hortens all the time...you are so wrong. When you do see them what you may not realise is that the little break they do get may be the only one they get for the whole day...depending on what may happen during the shift.


As for a provincial police force, all of you just don't realise that for the best bang for your dollar, the rcmp is by far the best you will get. From experience I can tell you that the RCMP takes on even the most mundane file, which a provincial force or a municipal force would show you the door and tell you to pound sand.

The costs to move to a provincial force is one the province would not be able to afford. Regardless of how you may feel about tasering, rcmp management, or cops in general, the 6 months that rcmp cadets take before being posted to their first detachment is still the best anywhere.
Whenever I hear or read of members being arrested or charged, yes it makes me cringe..but it won't stop me from doing the best that I can do on any one day.

Ok _grandinquistor....I don't think any one is really arguing that logic.
And I am also sure it would in fact cost one hell of a pile of dough to switch to provincial policing.
But money is not the point here.
To say that the RCMP takes on files that a provincial police force wouldn't is simply not true.
We don't know that.
Any provincial police force would do as they are told to do by their superiors and a police board, and if they didn't,or broke the rules,they would have to answer for that.
That's where civilian oversight comes in.
They should not have a choice.
We are talking about starting over with new policies and new guidelines to fix a very broken system.
The RCMP answers only to itself and that's exactly how we got to this stage.
The only hope that the RCMP will survive this mess is actually through civilian oversight,because it is blatantly obvious they cannot investigate themselves,nor should they.
They are not god and they are not untouchable, and when they screw it up,they have to answer for that, like the rest of us peons.
They should not be able to bury it.
And in all fairness,that applies to all cops,not just the RCMP.
The fact that the RCMP fight so hard against civilian oversight is questionable in it's own right.
What are they afraid of and what does the RCMP think they would lose by that?
What's the big secret?
Nobody is implying that all RCMP officers are evil by any means, but does the RCMP not want all of it's officers to be completely honest and above board?
I have met many damn good RCMP people and I have also met some who should have been booted in short order.
Instead they were protected.some for years.
That is what the public is upset about so
stop trying to cover your own dirt.
Get rid of it.
You are all human the same as everyone else and you make mistakes the same as everyone else.
Deal with it up front in a timely manner and quit expecting the public to believe that all RCMP memebers are above board.
That's like saying politicians never lie.

Seems to me that the main reason that British Columbia got rid of its Provincial Police Force was because of the corruption. To assume that to go to a Provincial Force would automatically get you a better system is naive.

The RCMP has to be changed. We cannot have them, or any other Police Force going around tasering people, or for that matter killing people. We never had this problem 20 or so years ago, so what they hell has gone wrong???

Part of it has to be the watered down qualifications to become a police officer. If we had stuck with the original requirements a lot of people who are in the RCMP to-day, would not be there, however as usual with this Milk Sopping Society we have in Canada to-day, where every thing has to be politically correct, we have created a whole new line of police men/women, who seem unable to do the job required of them.

Hopefully this will change, however the people who are in charge, like the Attorney General, Premier, etc; are part of the problem, so they have to be changed out also. Problem is there is no one in BC Politics that has the intelligence, or intestinal fortitude, to do the job, so I suggest that we are doomed.

This Province/Regional District/City, has far to many people feeding at the trough, and they are all focused on maintaining their standard of living etc; The chances of getting change from those who benefit from no change is impossible.

Palopu said, Seems to me that the main reason that British Columbia got rid of its Provincial Police Force was because of the corruption. To assume that to go to a Provincial Force would automatically get you a better system is naive.

If there was corruption in a Provincial police force , it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who would plant it amongst the ranks? Who would have the most to gain from such a ploy? Who specializes in covert operations amongst its citizens?Who is the most corrupt of all the police forces in Canada? Who has screwed up the most and biggest cases in Canada? Who is deceiving and manipulating at the Braidwood inquiry hearings? Who shot Ian Bush in the back of his head? Answer, the RCMP to all the above. Why is it only the western provinces have these dip turds for a provincial police force? Who's getting all the largess for the RCMP being placed here?
Be very suspicious of those who defended these Dicks.

I understand the problem you face The_grandinquisitor with the bad guys getting getting remanded over and over again and cases you work on get plee bargained away. It must be frustrating as hell. Having said that how does that relate to the incident at Vancouver airport where an unruly traveler from another country is murdered in less than 60 seconds after his first encounter with our national police force. How does that have any bearing on the police murder of the fellow in Vanderhoof who was also unarmed. I am sure your are familiar with that case as well. These were not gang members, they did not belong to an organized crime group that pedals drugs to our kids.
These are just two of the many cases of police brutality run a muck.
I don't think a provincial police force would be any better than the force we now have in place. They would be plagued with the same problems that are inherent in the RCMP.
A whole overhaul of the system is what is needed right from the top on down starting with the Grand Puba of the RCMP.
A civilian watchdog system needs to be put in place and one to oversee the justice system works as well.
One of the most important things is to make sure the Police force who ever it is can not be swayed by the government of the day. If it is a national force then it must have the power to prosecute corrupt politicians with out impunity. This is not the case in Canada at this time.
Our present system sees the Federal Government controlling our police force and telling it to jump and just how dam high.
Until the police are held accountable for our their actions just as the general public would be we will see no meaningful chance.
At one time the RCMP had the respect of the general public. This is fast being eroded by these types of crimes. And yes that is what we see them as. "CRIMES"
Like a lot of folks I have lost faith in your ability to protect and uphold the law.
It is unfortunate that the many good RCMP officers are also getting tarred with the same brush and I believe they are also disturbed with what is happening in the police force as the general public is. But the days of the little boy on the street corner asking a policeman for directions is just about a ferry tale now.

I dont think there is any point in tarring RCMP officers as lazy or corrupt or anything else. The reason of course, is that it is a rediculous generalization. So stop it. If your point is that the RCMP are not sufficiently accountable to us, the whinging public, then say so and stop at that. If your point is that a provincial force would be better then state why , without insulting en masse the people who work to keep us safe.
What i see here is dissatisfaction with the process for investigating and punishing misbehaviour by RCMP officers. As is the case with non police crime stories, we all seem to get carried away. Pretty soon we are painting vivid 'wild west' scenarios involving druggies or rogue police forces. While i can understand a little drama indulgence i can't stand it when it gets carried away into slandering people or professions in a generalized manner.

grandinquee:

You are a liar. Case incidence in Vancouver is: 42 per slug per year. Reports to Crown Counsel are: 20 per year, and prosecutors wastebasket 30% of same. Further, another 33% of charges are dropped later. That is why Stats Can records 1 convicted person per month per cop.

Cops deliver negative productivity because they marginalize rights bearers. We were better off when there were fewer cops. Read today's Vancouver Sun and you can read how a useless gang task force club hops looking for "gangstas" to evict. What a waste of time! Cops live for their 25-year/age 50 pensions. We have to pay to replace you for 15 years. I would make cops work until 65.

One of the latest RCMP criminals is a former pro hockey player, and brother of NHL dirt bag, Wade Belak. Brother Graham was listed at 6 ft 5 in and 230 pounds as a player.
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/444/fightcard/reg2004

March 12, 2009 at 9:47 PM EDT
WHITEHORSE — One of two Yukon Mounties charged with sexually assaulting a woman while off-duty is the brother of National Hockey League enforcer Wade Belak.

Graham Belak, 29, and Shawn McLaughlin, 32, have been suspended with pay and are scheduled to appear in court April 6.

The alleged incident occurred Sunday morning and a complaint was filed with police the day after.

Wade Belak, a long-time Toronto Maple Leaf, is currently a member of the Nashville Predators.

Graham Belak was selected by the Colorado Avalanche in the second round of the 1997 entry draft, though he never appeared in an NHL game.

Mounties have not released the names of the accused officers or their ranks since they have not yet appeared before a judge.

But Graham Belak and Mr. McLaughlin, who worked out of the RCMP's Watson Lake Detachment, are named in court documents.

The men are not being held in police custody.

Although the criminal investigation will be handled internally by the RCMP, the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP and the Edmonton Police Service have sent observers to the Yukon to ensure a fair and impartial investigation.

Watson Lake is located about 400 kilometres southeast of Whitehorse.

The Watson Lake RCMP detachment currently employs nine officers.