It’s been two months since the election in British Columbia delivered the Liberals to their third majority government, but already the backlash against them has been significant.

In their short time since May 12, they’ve managed to alienate, irritate, and discombobulate residents in this province with their many frustrating unilateral policy moves. Even rather apolitical friends and coworkers have commented on the HST, and what an absolute disgrace it is to implement after giving no indication whatsoever that it was coming before the election. If anything, the Liberals had said that the HST would hurt the province’s ability to control their revenues, and didn’t want to be tied up in their fiscal maneuvers.

The fact is that people here have good reason to be concerned by the HST. It will add a cost-of-living increase to numerous items that weren’t previously so expensive, and in a region of Canada like Vancouver, that can be devastating to the working class. As Scott Simpson reported in the Vancouver Sun, the HST will directly increase energy costs for customers of Terasen Gas and B.C. Hydro. The average cost for natural gas and electricity will likely jump by a combined total of $12 a month when the HST goes into effect on July 1, 2010.

That’s $144 extra in taxes that people in B.C. have to pay, and it’s on a single expense only. When you add up all of the expenses that will increase from the HST, it could result in revolt. But don’t expect the government to see it from that point of view. If anything, they argue, the HST will allow businesses to deliver products and services at a lower cost, which will allow them to lower their prices in tandem. But that may just be wishful thinking. Both Terasen Gas and Hydro warned that any savings would “likely not” be sufficient enough to offset the increases that will show up on utility bills.

The truth is that the residents of B.C. will likely not take this latest outrage lying down, or grimacing through clenched teeth as they did when the carbon tax was shoved down our throats. To take a page from Brian Mulroney’s legacy, nothing will do in a politician better than an ill-timed and ill-conceived tax. Certainly the tax will offer new-found riches to the province, but at a terrible political price. This is a price increase that will be seen and felt by everyone in the province, with 12% in taxes being taken off everything from restaurants to new houses. How many people are going to want to leave a 15% gratuity for their waitress, after they just tipped the government 12%? Worse still, how many people are going to want to eat out at all?

An Ipsos Reid poll shows that 85% of B.C. residents oppose the tax, with 70% being “strongly opposed”. The winners in this scenario are clear: the provincial government will get greater revenues than before, and a one-off $1.6 billion gift from Ottawa for “harmonizing”. Big business will, according to Finance Minister Colin Hansen, pay $1.9 billion less in taxes because they will be able to claim back the tax they pay. But where is the “win” for the people? The working class struggling to make ends meet in a recession? The frightening thing is that British Columbians are already “taxed to the max” as it is, without adding more weight to our backs.

Of course there is one way out of this. And the rage might just be strong enough to make it happen. A recall campaign gaining 40% of the signatures of registered voters to end the Liberals legislative majority may be possible. The downside to this idea, however, is that under B.C. Elections laws, any recall cannot start until 18 months after the election, which would be November 2010, four months after the HST goes into effect. Then again, four months into experiencing the HST first-hand might be just what’s needed to turf Gordon Campbell and his Liberal government out. Until then, the Liberals might want to try not doing anything else to enrage the people of this province, because the load of straw on that camels back is getting mighty heavy indeed.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/08/16/raphael-alexander-teflon-and-the-b-c-liberal-party.aspx

The more tax the merrier

I shake my head at the logic of anyone that supports this HST scandal. It is simply a tax transfer from corporations to small business that derives its income from services. In the process it is also treason to the sovereignty of BC to decide its own policy for a made in BC tax structure, but it is also a violation of the spirit of our democracy in the way that it is proceeding.

This tax will be a significant cost of inflation to the cost of living for every individual in the province... at a time when wages are being rolled back 20% in the private sector. Between consumer inflation and capital gains the real return of any investment in this province will likely be zero or worse for a long time to come. Any recovery will have to be based on more debt seems to be the BC liberal plan, because it won't be based from the grass roots with a plan to allow people to keep their own money for reinvestment and savings that ultimately create tomorrows jobs in this province. Giving tax cuts to foreign investors at the expense of BC citizens seems to be the plan at this point and its a plan for future slavery.

These people are all a bunch of leaches on the system. We have a country that is on the precipice of a long decline, because we are hi-jacked and held hostage by people that have made it completely legal to get their cut of the economic process without providing any real corresponding value. 90% of the people I estimate are followers who are ignorant of their role they play and the other 10% are the source of the greed and fixes that allow for the death of investment and savings as was once accrued through old fashion 'profits'.

Investment and savings are what allow for job creation ultimately through the formation of for profit enterprise. Our whole political system is built on the access to power through favoritism to the wealth transfer process as a means of political party insider power, and through this they kill slowly the ability for savings to take place and thus for Canadians to own their own economy. The only savings encouraged is that which funnels the funds through proxies for the globalists like our flawed RRSP set up. We are being sold out as a nation not only our standard of living, but our actual sovereignty through our ownership of our own economy. Our financial, banking, legal, and political sectors are all a 'cost of doing business' that is destroying Canadian productivity through 'norms' that allow for unchecked greed and imposed middle men with their hands out. Unless we can afford to save and invest and unless we can save and invest and know that it means something, then we are not going to have the investments that will power the economy of our next generations.

High inflation with low interest rates for savings is disastrous in the long term.
Killing profits through to many hands in the pocket is disastrous in the long term.
Fixing it all with more debt undermining savings and real dollars is disastrous in the long term.
Allowing a financial sector to go completely unchecked in their avarice is disastrous for the long term... it kills savings and the willingness to make future investments.

We have now a BCSC that is supposed to regulate securities in this province, but they are more an asset of credibility for the criminals, than they are an actual regulator of ethical business practices... we have rip off stock brokers, rip of mutual funds, rip off bankers, rip off, accountants, rip off corporate managements and complicate BOD's, and utterly irrelevant auditing and reporting standards, and a fractional finance industry that creates its own money and abuses the markets unimpeded by 'legal' means, and we have unfair compensation from all the middle men along the way from the CEO's and 'corporate' executives, to the 'lawyers', to the whole 'bureaucracy' that wield their power to attain their continued cut of that ever smaller pie.... in the end we have complete economic collapse some would say through greed and avarice of the controlling hands... but technically it would be because we took a dollar of profits that could have been saved and later invested to create employment and new wealth... and instead we split that dollar 150% between all the hands that wanted their cut, and financed the difference with more debt to pass on to the final bag holder once it all collapses, as it eventually will.

Gordon Campbell has done nothing to address the problem greedy middle men that rob 'profits' from their real stakeholders, and him and his brother are rather a source of this very problem that will kill investment in BC and kill the ability of people in BC to save themselves to invest in their own economy also. How can anyone have faith their investments are safe when we see the kinds of policies we see that seem complicit with criminal hidden agenda's, and an economic policy that views foreign multinational profits as more important than a rising provincial standard of living that could be reinvested in our province to continue to create opportunities that are real for future generations financed by past generations and not multinational banksters.

HST is just another way to take 7% more out of the profit pie of people that will no longer be able to save that money or reinvest it for future economic growth. Because it is handled federally the provincial government will feel no accountability for its collection and thus see it as a source to be allocated to buy off the bureaucracy and their other corporate special interest friends anytime they get a smell of surplus.

I often wonder where are the unions in all of this. The millions of dollars they collect and they use it all to be confrontational with their employers while oblivious to the real middle men atrocities that devastate the foundation of the economy that supports their union shops. Why aren't the unions taking the securities regulators to task, or the judiciary for making bad judgments that smell of either ignorance or corruption, or the politicians that allow it all to happen, or that host of other ailments that have no counterbalance to keep them in line... leakage of real profits from the companies they feed on. So along that line of reasoning I blame the unions when the economy finally does collapse, and not because they are too hard on the companies, or that they failed to get adequate compensation for their employees, but because they have a job they are paid to do that they provide no real value for that in effect lulls people into thinking they have someone looking out for them... when in fact they really do not and never have from unions and those that make a living off of administering them.

Time Will Tell

:)

I would be surprised if there is an escape or cancellation clause in the HST agreement between the province and Ottawa.

Even if there is one, the province would have to return the $1.6 Billion dollars of federal bribe money if it would back out. There may also be substantial penalties.

The recall legislation is very specific about what represents cause for recall and if applications for recall are submitted and rejected what would the next step be?

The residents of B.C. should not take this lying down.

Politicians often use hidden deceptions when manipulating the public, but this is a case of openly lying about intentions when questioned by the media.

It certainly is an exercise in cynicism and of shutting out the public from its right of having a democratic participation in such an important matter, imho.

NO !!!!

"The recall legislation is very specific about what represents cause for recall"

I am not sure that this is so. I do RECALL that there was an attempt to recall Gordon Campbell because he wore a plaid shirt, and an attempt to recall Paul Ramsey because he was not socialist enough. Both were approved as recall by Elections BC, so a recall of elected liberal MLAs could likely be done for almost any reason.

There is another approach, of course, that could be done now. Do you remember the court case against Glen Clark over his budget? A similar court case against Gordon Campbell could be initiated immediately, without the 18 month wait.

Of course, for that to happen a moneyed publicly minded agency like the Canadian Taxpayers Federation would have to get involved, and the chances of that are ....

Where is their voice on the HST anyway?

"Politicians often use hidden deceptions when manipulating the public, but this is a case of openly lying about intentions"

I think they are lying. However, it may also be that they do not understand and so they could be telling the truth as they see it but that would make them stupid .......

Liar, stupid, liar, stupid .... which is he/she?

Diplomat wrote:
"I would be surprised if there is an escape or cancellation clause in the HST agreement between the province and Ottawa."

I still do not understand why the Feds and the local people who grace seats in Ottawa on our behalf are being let off scott free. They are the ones who enticed, and continue to entice, the provinces to do this. Sort of like the panhandler on the street.

This notion of "visibility" is a concept I think is false. I can see what is provincial tax and what is federal tax. With an HST, one will lose track.

If the province wanted to make the provincial tax refundable to the business in cases where it may not be now, they could certainly do that without putting in an HST. The businesses would still gain the same one point something billion dollars and make us go out and buy all sorts of stuff we do not need because they are going to be so competitive minded.

And if they wanted to make a deal with the feds to collect the PST for us because it would save money, then let them make that deal. Accountants and bookkeepers are really quite smart. They can keep the accounts for more than one client quite separate.

How long did someone, somewhere think up of these lame excuses that they would be trying to sell their idea with to the egeneral public.

If it looks like an extra tax, feels like an extra tax, it very likely is an extra tax.

As I keep saying, Ontario is providing refunds to the general population. We know that even politicians are not that stupid that they would provide refunds if they are not getting a windfall.

Read this article for some thoughts from the Taxpayers federation:

http://www.timescolonist.com/story_print.html?id=1861471&sponsor=

"McEwan says the HST is a productivity enhancing measure, saying over time it will lead to more wealth, more jobs and it will be beneficial to the economy. “For our industries, it’s a net positive, because it removes the intermediary stages of the Provincial Sales tax, so it will only apply once through the harmonized tax and as such it will remove a couple of billion dollars in taxes for export oriented businesses.” McEwan says the HST will enhance B.C.’s competitiveness, “It is an exceptionally good move, it’s a very difficult thing for government to communicate, and I think there needs to be a better job of communicating to the public about what the true benefits of it are.”"

Sounds good to me. I believe he's saying this means more jobs for people. More jobs = more government revenue = more money spent of healthcare, education, etc.

Of course, there will always be that small percentage of people who feel they are entitled to all the perks of living in this great province without having to make any contribution to it.

Thanks for the link!

Technically you are correct, ammonra, I realize upon additional reading of the Recall Initiative Act.

If a person thinks that a politician should be recalled for driving all year with a dirty car, all he has to do is plunk down 50 bucks, collect a minimum number of signatures and write a story of max 200 words about his reason for recall and apply.

Then the bureaucracy starts the process (as facetious as it would be) and proceeds to waste the taxpayers' money on supervising a recall initiative that wouldn't have a snowball in hell's chance of going anywhere.

Heehee! OMG!

So what's the idea of a 2% hotel tax. Do we want travelers to stay in Prince George, or stay in Quesnel.

Why would anyone want to stay in Prince George. We have a downtown that is ruled by a bunch addicts, bums looking for handouts, and drunken first nation people pissing on buildings. We have no RV parking in the bowl area. We have no real tourist attraction theme parks. Except for Cottonwood Park. We really do not do anything to attract tourists.

So what's the idea with the 2% Hotel Tax, what so a couple of cronnies get to go to a big convention down south to hand out a dozen pamphlets. What is the master plan with tourism. Do you think having VIA rail stop in Prince George, is satisfactory to say that, yeah we are doing something. No, get the move to clean up downtown. Take back our downtown, push the riffraffs off of third avenue to city hall. Queensway to Victoria. We want our downtown back.


Oh, yeah bunch a bleeding hearts are gonna love this. But seriously, all the riffraffs are looking for is a bed, and few meals a day, and safe place to stay. Everything else we try to give them is not neccessarily for their good, but to make the do gooders feel good about themselves.

So what's the idea of a 2% hotel tax. Do we want travelers to stay in Prince George, or stay in Quesnel.

Why would anyone want to stay in Prince George. We have a downtown that is ruled by a bunch addicts, bums looking for handouts, and drunken first nation people pissing on buildings. We have no RV parking in the bowl area. We have no real tourist attraction theme parks. Except for Cottonwood Park. We really do not do anything to attract tourists.

So what's the idea with the 2% Hotel Tax, what so a couple of cronnies get to go to a big convention down south to hand out a dozen pamphlets. What is the master plan with tourism. Do you think having VIA rail stop in Prince George, is satisfactory to say that, yeah we are doing something. No, get the move to clean up downtown. Take back our downtown, push the riffraffs off of third avenue to city hall. Queensway to Victoria. We want our downtown back.


Oh, yeah bunch a bleeding hearts are gonna love this. But seriously, all the riffraffs are looking for is a bed, and few meals a day, and safe place to stay. Everything else we try to give them is not neccessarily for their good, but to make the do gooders feel good about themselves.

"it will remove a couple of billion dollars in taxes for export oriented businesses"

A simple question/observation if I may. I have written this on here before.

If we remove tax from the manufacturing of a product and fail to collect that tax from all the products sold outside of BC, let alone outside of Canada, the shortfall in tax must be regained somehow. It looks like the citizens of BC are the ones who will make up the shortfall so that people in other parts of the world can get our products more cheaply.

There is no auditing system in place to ensure that the savings will be passed on to foreign buyers.

Our wood products are already so cheap that the USA is slapping an import duty on them. If they get any cheaper, what control do we have in place so that they do not slap a higher duty on them?

The reason that we are not selling more wood products to foreign countries is and will be:
1. we geared our market to the USA too much
2. we geared our market to the USA too much
3. we geared our market to the USA too much
4. the USA has a structural problem which will not see a solution for several more years, perhaps even a decade
5. we have a feedstock supply problem because of the MPB (how quickly people forget that we are moving to a 40% feedstock fall down which this tax shift will not help with)
6. other countries who have a forest industry are just as competitive as we are, yet many have a better social safety net than we do.
7. did I write that we geared our market to the USA too much yet?

How about this, instead of removing the tax on forest and other manufactured items, how about taking that money and investing it in the right areas which will diversify the markets that lazy manufacturers who figured they hit the motherlode have been content with.

Great posts charles and Eagleone.
I hope people educate themselves and others and the outrage against Campbell and the HST continues to grow. The time is now.

Let's roll.

Hear, hear He spoke. You speak the truth.

As far as the HST, Gordon really does not care, once it is in place, he declares retirement, appoints a new leader.

At that point the new leader has 3 years to sink or float. Gordon gets to leave with the Olympic and HST legacy. "Bill Bennet had EXPO 86"

I am pretty sure the deal has been made already. Of course Hansen is going for the 1.6 billion dollar bribe from the Feds. We can only hope that the HST is no more than 10% to soften the blow.

I see no report on here about Tourism BC being disbanded and moved into the Ministry for savings.

Lots of news.

Guess we have to wait for the budget to see how nippin' and tuckin' and scrimpin' and savin' and diggin' into our pockets will look when it is all integrated.

Sounds like a take more and give less budget.

He spoke on August 18 2009

Ya you said what most of us think ...

Well said charles,gus,and Eagleone!
In fact, well said by all!
Good job!
With the exception perhaps of "faxman".
Sorry faxman,but you do sound like you are working for the Campbell Liberals!
If you believe any of the HST revenue will be spent on healthcare and education,I got a bridge to sell ya!

Now that is funny. Two levels of government fighting over who is going to tax the other's tax. That is a pretty accurate sumation of the way things are today.

Well, we don't want them taxing our tax, and how do we add their tax to our tax ?

We want to make sure their tax isn't taking part of our tax, we want tomake sure we are getting as much tax as we can take, but we don't want them taxing our tax, maybe we can tax their tax to increase our tax.

Meanwhile, the consumer stands there with inflamed hemmorrhoids, while several levels of government fight over who is the next one in.

Actually Andyfreeze, I do indeed, "... believe any of the HST revenue will be spent on healthcare and education..." because that is where the majority of our tax dollars are spent. Money doesn't grow on trees you know; it has to come from somewhere and unfortunately that somewhere is our pockets. No one likes taxes (me included) but we all like having roads, education, health care, healthy forests, etc. etc. etc. As far as I can tell, the HST will do more good than harm.

Paying tax on environmental fees for tires and batteries should be challenged too. And taxing the deposit paid on soda pop and bottled water. Those are taxed aren't they? Too many taxes, fees, levys. rules and laws.

Not a penny of the HST will go for health care or education. I can't believe that people think it will. Read the premiers lips...he said it himself, it goes to big business period.

The following from one of the many articles regarding the HST.

"Consumers would pay an extra $1.9 billion a year –- with all that money going to big business. Not a dime of the HST will pay for healthcare, education or social services".

If any of you astute supporters of Campbell and the HST can get me a direct quote from Campbell that the HST will go to healthcare or social services I will eat my hat.

I would disagree Junco. I would suggest that the HST will go towards health care or education, much like ANY tax paid in BC does. The sheer volume of money spent on those programs makes it a virtual certainty.

The distinction here is that with the HST, the dollars will come from the consumer, as opposed to the consumer AND business, as was the case with the PST. Big business will not "get" the HST they collect, they'll simply collect it and pass it along to the government. Their saving comes from the fact that any HST they pay is completely refundable, unlike PST which is embedded in their costs.

In a nutshell, HST will reduce costs for business and increase costs for the consumer. I see it primarily as a way to shift the tax burden. Make business happy and hope that the average taxpayer doesn't squak too much. Looks like the plan is backfiring . . .

I think the move to an HST would be more readily accepted if there was an equal offset in income taxes, which doesn't look to be the case. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing government discuss a system with HIGH consumption taxes (especially on "non-essential" goods) and LOW or NO income taxes. Obviously you'd have to set it up so that tax revenues were still at an adequate level, but it would have some definite advantages. For one, the lowest income people would see an immediate benefit, the people that consume the most would pay the most (and would likely be able to afford it), it may help curb excessive consumer spending (which has contributed to the current economic mess we are in) and you'd even get to tax the heck out of the criminal population because while they may not pay all of the income tax they are required to, there is nothing gang bangers love more than flashy cars, jewellery and rims. At least you'd get your pound of flesh from them as well.

If Campbell says it's going to health care and education he's lying again, he has a good record of slinging the BS

I think all PG has to do is create a destination marketing fee which works in a similar fashion as the fees on property owners of a BIA.

Here is a sample hotel bill for Vancouver.

room .................. $120
room tax ................$12
room GST .................$6
DMF ......................$1.61
DMF PST ..................$0.11
DMF GST ..................$0.08
Total ..................$139.80

There is no tax on tax. There is a tax on a fee in the case of the DMF.

I was under the impression that PG was instituting a DMF as is done in several places in BC, not an additional municipal tax as Vancouver does.

Some hotels in Vancouver charge an additional "facilities fee" on top of that.

Perhaps PG is not a destination, thus cannot have a destination marketing fee.

The BC GOv site says that the 8% province wide HRT will simply be dropped to 7% so that the total HST remains 12%.

It is silent on the additional municipal or regional tax of up to 2% that is charged in some communities. At the moment that collection is reported separately and is refunded to the DM organization for their use.

The Listel Hotel in Vancouver lists their taxes/fees http://www.thelistelhotel.com/page133.htm

The 2% TAX (not DMF) http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/bulletins/hrt_007.pdf

NMG I fully agree with what you are saying in that last post. My problem with the HST is we will lose the sovereignty to tweek our own consumer tax in order to be able to apply it as you suggest, but made in BC. To say nothing of the complete disregard to the democratic process in making this attempt to bring in the HST.

Its a centralization of authority, which should come as no surprise because the MO of most politicians like Harper/Campbell these days is to say one thing and do the opposite once elected. Harper knows he makes the province more of a dependent on the federal government, which is a form of power he feels the federal government should have over the provinces (ie the power of taxation).

BTW A manufacturing enterprise in BC can get a PST exemption for the PST paid on any product manufactured for re-sale... so that only the end user pays the PST. This is already the case under PST. All they have to do is show their PST exemption number when making the purchase. So to say it is a expense saved in the manufacturing process is simply not true.

The true savings to business with HST comes from the return they get for their HST expenses on things like utilities, plant and administration overhead, and other expenses that are not directly related to actual manufacturing where PST is paid.

Sure..add another 2% to the hotel tax!
Brilliant!
Which rocket scientist dreamed this one up?

This is very much unrelated, but good for thinking:

"Paying tax on environmental fees for tires and batteries should be challenged too."

Speaking of eco-fees,

1) you pay an eco fee when you buy a tire
2) you pay a fee for scrapping the tire when it is worn out
3) the tire gets burnt with hog fuel for heat energy at local pulp mills

The test question:

Where did all the fees go, and what were they supposed to be charged for ?